Horio's Wavecor Ardent Build

[Horio]

So after many many months of talking about building a pair of Wavecor Ardents and collecting many of the parts, I've finally come to the point where some actual progress on the cabinets is being made. This thread will track the progress of my build, however don't be surprised if my build goes a bit slower than others on this board. I plan to take my time and do the best job I can with my modest skills.

A few highlights of my build:

• Cabinets will be per Jon's drawings in the Official Wavecor thread with a couple of small tweaks.
• I will be using the newer "SW223BD02" version of the Wavecor woofer (already have), with the corresponding crossover.
• Will be using the Accuton C90-6-079 midrange and ScanSpeak D3004/6640 Beryllium tweeter (already have).
• Baffles will be fully bamboo (4 layers of LBL).
• In the style of meb's builds, I am planning to paint the cabinets (will invest in a HVLP sprayer).
• May increase the depth of the base to give a bit more room for the crossover.

Now to get a jump start on this project, friend of the forum Steve M. has kindly agreed to help build the full LBL baffles. I will be building the rest of the cabinets, the crossovers and doing the finishing.

Should be fun, and hopefully they turn out well!

[BobEllis]

Slower? Mine took over two years to complete from when I started gathering materials.


Enjoy the journey. I'm looking forward to seeing your progress.

[TEK]

Looking forward to follow your progress!

[Wayman]

Great way to start the new year!

Cheers, Wayne

[JonMarsh]

This is kicking off the New Year the right way! :T

Builds like this kind of project are definitely long game projects- not something you finish in a few weeks unless you've got straight vacation time, and even then it would be a big challenge.


Please keep us posted, and of course bring any questions or concerns here to resolve.

[Horio]

Thanks everyone for the words of encouragement! I know I will definitely be leaning on everyone's advice along the way. Stay tuned.

[technodanvan]

I'm really hoping this will encourage me to start on mine as well. Really looking forward to see your tweaks.

[meb46]

Great stuff Horio, looking forward to seeing your progress.

On the HVLP front, I can highly recommend the Fuji Spray products... very easy to use, excellent results, and good channels for spares/parts. I got the Mini-Mite Series with a Gravity fed spray gun. The only comment I have on spraying, specifically on large cabinets like mine, the weight of the paint in the top of the gravity fed gun gets heavy when you have longer spray sessions and multiple coats! Prepare for RSI in your wrist if you are doing longer spray sessions.

With respect to the Bamboo, probably something you already know... just remember to get, and keep, really sharp tools as its pretty taxing stuff to cut. Watch your speed when cutting as it has a tendancy to burn as soon as things are blunt or not managed well. That said, its an awesome material!

Good luck!!!!

[Horio]

Great stuff Horio, looking forward to seeing your progress.

On the HVLP front, I can highly recommend the Fuji Spray products... very easy to use, excellent results, and good channels for spares/parts. I got the Mini-Mite Series with a Gravity fed spray gun. The only comment I have on spraying, specifically on large cabinets like mine, the weight of the paint in the top of the gravity fed gun gets heavy when you have longer spray sessions and multiple coats! Prepare for RSI in your wrist if you are doing longer spray sessions.

With respect to the Bamboo, probably something you already know... just remember to get, and keep, really sharp tools as its pretty taxing stuff to cut. Watch your speed when cutting as it has a tendancy to burn as soon as things are blunt or not managed well. That said, its an awesome material!

Good luck!!!!

Thanks for the advice meb. I've been looking at the Fuji Mini-Mite series and was leaning toward the 4 stage version. Not sure on gravity versus bottom fed so I'll have to do more research on that front, but I have time since it will be a while before I need a sprayer.

[TEK]

I assume that you often will be painting rather small areas.
I think that a gravity feed is easier to use when mixing small amounts of paint.
My personal preference is absolutely gravity gun. I find them easy to use and easy to clean and very little issues with paint not being delivered when you are getting a bit low on paint.
Here are some points on the topic: http://www.spraygunworld.com/Informa...pray_guns.html
And here

https://www.pittsburghsprayequip.com/2016/02/22/gravity-feed-spray-gun-vs-suction-feed-spray-gun/

Or just go for a gravity gun and don't look back ;-)

[meb46]

Gravity gun all the way... although a struggle on the wrist on big areas, I do think they return some pretty solid results.

[Horio]

Thanks for the information guys. Seems like Gravity is the better way to go for my applications, and the gravity guns appear to move paint faster than the suction style guns. Now its a matter of how many stages do I really need. 3, 4 or 5? Chances are 3 stage would suffice, but might be nice and worth the money to have a bit more headroom.

[Steve Manning]

A Little Progress .....

Well in between snow and being down with a cold, there's a little progress being made. Bamboo arrived today to get the baffles started.

Bamboo was attached to a large pallet so I was glad for the help from the FedEx driver.



The super has approved the lbl upon initial inspection.

[Horio]

That marks the official beginning of the build!

Your super looks very serious. I'm sure he inspected things very carefully.

[JonMarsh]

River is just an overgrown puppy, just ask Steve's wife, but will keep Steve in line... or at least motivated! ;W

[Steve Manning]

Baffle Blanks

Got some blanks cut today. I went with Cali Bamboo for a source this time for the lbl, so far it's looking very nice, virtually no voids.

[JonMarsh]

They're one of the best, if you go with Ply. I used them on the Isiris build.

[csmielke]

Guys,
Anyone looking to do a similar Ardent build, I noticed yesterday that Solen had the Wavecor SW223BD02 woofers at half price as it appears Wavecor is discontinuing and replacing this woofer. I worked it out to about $125 USD each, quite a deal.
Chris

[JonMarsh]

Interesting information. I guess I'd better go see what Wavecor is up to. OTOH, I'm not really in the market for stocking up on these! However, I am working on some new designs with these with Steve, so this is of concern.

[Steve Manning]

Hey Chris what made you believe Wavecor was discontinuing this model?

[csmielke]

Steve,
On their website (Wavecor's) they already have the new model listed and you can no longer view the 02 model. I did not compare specs to see what's changed.
Chris

[csmielke]

Guys,
Went back to Wavecor's site and I screwed up. The 7" versions had new models not the 8". My bad, sorry. So not sure what triggered the deal on the 8" 4 ohm deal at Solen.
Chris

[JonMarsh]

Just random good deals, eh? That's something of a relief!!

[Steve Manning]

Your forgiven Chris .... non the less, that's a killer deal on those drivers.

[dar47]

I think they buy lots when CAN dollar is favorable to the EUR. You are always way higher and unless their shipping cost is bad I don't know why a lot more isn't bought there. I can't buy anything in the US my best deal lately 545 EUR bike helmet or 750 CAN and that would be over $1000 US at any US online place.

[BobEllis]

I paid $125 US for the -02s when I bought them a couple of years ago. The few times I checked since they were about the same.

[TEK]

:blink: Hmm - two bass towers with 6 -02’s pr side to flank the ardents, might that be an idea? :blink:

[Horio]

Question regarding finishing. Instead of veneer as most have done with their Ardent builds, I'm planning to paint the cabinets. Getting a very smooth and flat surface will be very important.

What recommendations do you guys have for getting a flat smooth surface prior to painting? Seal the cabinets and build up an epoxy coat which can be sanded flat/polished to high grit? Use some other form of smoothing compound? Any specific products you have had good success with? I'm particularly worried about the joints showing through.

Thanks!

[TEK]

One tried method is:
- Cover the speaker with thin plates og mdf or hdf to create a smooth surface.
- Add some layer of epoxy and filler as needed until you have a flat and sealed surface
- Add base layer(s) and sand until wanted surfce
- Add top coat(s)

[dar47]

Depending on your box material I would agree using an 1/8" thickness material like hdf creates very small seams between surfaces and this is better then 3/4" material showing at the joint. Making the least amount of seams is the goal! Using epoxy or a high quality sanding sealer to fill these small seems keeps each surface continuous. My goal was to always have as hard a corner as possible because with time those are the places that take the hits with paint or veneer. With paint I would transition to automotive products like filling glaze and spend some time getting each surface as flat as possible as that transitions your corners as true as possible. With woodworking we often think true and square are to be made by the illusion of true and square but when painting a wood cab the surface should be true flat and square as it looks way better when painted and provides surface support for the paint especial on wood.

I saw some painted speaks in a store the other day getting blown out and the corners were separating probably from moving and stressing the corner of the cabs, Nice paint but I bet there was corners cut on the process making these and the prep. So the moral off the story is to make flat surfaces and tough corners to support that paint if you want it to last. Truth I like the wood veneer look and can handle it but I never have bin truly happy with any paint job I have attempted on wood. I think a good paint job is harder to do by far compared to veneer, some others may not think this is a true statement!

[dar47]

I took a good look at Ben's cabs this last summer and his epoxy skim coat and sand over 1/8" hard board before veneer gave his 10 coats of conversion varnish a very stable surface. They look vary good after years. I used sanding sealer but left my veneer a little proud and only 5 coats of varnish on the veneer. Mine are very stable too but this summer I am going to sand them again to true up corners and give them another 5 coats. Ben mentioned he thought Ron's finish in his pics with the gloss look the best. I hope others will speak up and give their thoughts after a few years on their finishes.

[Steve Manning]

A couple of suggestions along the lines of what Darryl is talking about for tight/small seems. Since you have not built the cabinets yet, you have the option of making the outer BB layer with 45 deg corners, rather than butt joints. I want to say I saw that you have a Festool track saw that ought to help nicely with that. You have the inner mdf layer that be left with butt joints and that could help with alignment. That way you don't have to add an additional layer of hdf.

Any voids or cracks I went with a suggestion from Ron and used Evercoat Polyester Glazing Putty, it leaves a nice finish.

Depending on what route you go for finish, I've been using water bourne stuff of late and have had good luck with this for a sealer/filler. https://www.targetcoatings.com/produ...rfacer-filler/

I then have been using a water borne pre-catalyzed lacquer by Valspar that can be tinted pretty much any color you want. I have found several coats of the tinted in gloss followed up with some clear top coats does a nice job. I've found finishing up with a satin finish looks rather nice and helps hide small imperfections. If you want gloss you can go that route but it's rather unforgiving of surface imperfections. You also have to give the finish plenty of time to cure prior to any final sanding and buffing.

I can't really offer much for regular paints, Ron or some others might have some good ideas there.

If you went with veneer you might want to watch some of the videos here. https://www.youtube.com/user/oakwoodveneer/videos. It has some very helpful information on choosing the right type of veneer for specific applications.

[meb46]

Horio - The only advice or comment i would make are as follows:

Edge joints - If you can use a "Biscuit" approach (assuming you have a biscuit machine), and have accurate cuts, you should be able to make the butt corner joints pretty accurate and can then minimise the need for much filler, if any at all.
Gluing - I used epoxy adhesive on mine and it is far superior to wood glue. The one I used ended up exceeding hard, sandable, and easy to spray sealer over.
Leveling - I didnt use anything specific in terms of epoxy leveling aside from some light weight filler. I then sprayed MANY coats of sanding sealer, and this was a self-leveling sealer. Probably overall I would have sprayed on about 20 coats, but that was more about building a sealer thickness to avoid rub through when flattening it.

My finish isn't perfect, but I am happy with it at the present time. Being a Matt finish, I haven't even polished the top coat yet, so this might happen at a later date.

Obviously, with painting speakers, its a lot more forgiving as you can use filler, versus a veneer or clear lacquer.

Just my 2 cents...

[Horio]

A couple of suggestions along the lines of what Darryl is talking about for tight/small seems. Since you have not built the cabinets yet, you have the option of making the outer BB layer with 45 deg corners, rather than butt joints. I want to say I saw that you have a Festool track saw that ought to help nicely with that. You have the inner mdf layer that be left with butt joints and that could help with alignment. That way you don't have to add an additional layer of hdf.

Steve, I do have a TS55 track saw and MFT/3 table. Interesting idea of a miter joint at the outer BB layer. That would certainly minimize the joints outside of the baffle to rear cabinet assembly. Thanks for the filler/paint recommendations. I'll do some more reading on those products.

I veneered my last pair of speakers and it went pretty well. I did the iron-on technique using unbacked walnut veneer with lots of veneer softener, and it went very well. I was thinking of trying something different by going with a satin paint finish this time.

[Horio]

Depending on your box material I would agree using an 1/8" thickness material like hdf creates very small seams between surfaces and this is better then 3/4" material showing at the joint. Making the least amount of seams is the goal! Using epoxy or a high quality sanding sealer to fill these small seems keeps each surface continuous. My goal was to always have as hard a corner as possible because with time those are the places that take the hits with paint or veneer. With paint I would transition to automotive products like filling glaze and spend some time getting each surface as flat as possible as that transitions your corners as true as possible. With woodworking we often think true and square are to be made by the illusion of true and square but when painting a wood cab the surface should be true flat and square as it looks way better when painted and provides surface support for the paint especial on wood.

Dar, whether its veneer or paint it does seem like 1/8" hardboard will do a nice job creating a flat surface and covering the seams. I was browsing through one of the old threads and stumbled on the photos below for Ben's build (see below). Seems like the side/top/rear panels could trim up very nicely with a flush cut bit, but how did you get the clean joint at the baffle? That one seems like it could be tricky with the baffle facets already cut. Oversize panel, flush cut hand saw and a flat sanding block? Did you do anything special like mitered joints where the hardboard intersects?

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?41409-Wavecor-Ardent-Journal-the-first-Builds&p=585808&viewfull=1#post585808

[Horio]

Horio - The only advice or comment i would make are as follows:

Edge joints - If you can use a "Biscuit" approach (assuming you have a biscuit machine), and have accurate cuts, you should be able to make the butt corner joints pretty accurate and can then minimise the need for much filler, if any at all.
Gluing - I used epoxy adhesive on mine and it is far superior to wood glue. The one I used ended up exceeding hard, sandable, and easy to spray sealer over.
Leveling - I didnt use anything specific in terms of epoxy leveling aside from some light weight filler. I then sprayed MANY coats of sanding sealer, and this was a self-leveling sealer. Probably overall I would have sprayed on about 20 coats, but that was more about building a sealer thickness to avoid rub through when flattening it.

My finish isn't perfect, but I am happy with it at the present time. Being a Matt finish, I haven't even polished the top coat yet, so this might happen at a later date.

Obviously, with painting speakers, its a lot more forgiving as you can use filler, versus a veneer or clear lacquer.

Just my 2 cents...

Meb, I was planning to use my Festool Domino to help with joint alignment and make assembly go a bit easier, along with epoxy adhesive. Do you recall what filler and sealing product you used? I'm leaning toward a matte/satin finish to help conceal the small stuff.

One thing is for sure, that a good sprayer will be needed if I'm going to pull off a semi respectable painted finish.

[Scottg]

One thing is for sure, that a good sprayer will be needed if I'm going to pull off a semi respectable painted finish.

Suggestion:

https://www.harborfreight.com/adjustable-detail-spray-gun-92126.html

https://www.harborfreight.com/OilWater-Separator-68246.html

https://www.harborfreight.com/digital-air-flow-regulator-68245.html

(..don't forget to use coupons on each (purchase one at a time), and get whatever free item they are offering that you like in their circular with each purchase.)


-don't let the price fool you.

It's essentially a large air brush - which results in really good finishes (..though it does take longer) with the right technique and "paint".

It's low volume low pressure (..not high volume). Beyond that LVLP, it's about distance from the surface and your rate of movement along with the type of paint/lacquer/sealer/etc. and its respective viscosity. I'm currently using it with a thick acrylic "thinned" with air-brush flow improver (from Amazon) for my HT Screen.

[dar47]

Horio,

Yes you are correct hard board was put on oversize after the box was assemble. The surface, the hard board over hung was taped with masking tape. I then used a small trim router with a bottom baring and matching tilt on the router base to get it close. Then removed the tape and block sanded the surface.

[BobEllis]

Suggestion:

https://www.harborfreight.com/adjustable-detail-spray-gun-92126.html

https://www.harborfreight.com/OilWater-Separator-68246.html

https://www.harborfreight.com/digital-air-flow-regulator-68245.html

(..don't forget to use coupons on each (purchase one at a time), and get whatever free item they are offering that you like in their circular with each purchase.)


-don't let the price fool you.

It's essentially a large air brush - which results in really good finishes (..though it does take longer) with the right technique and "paint".

It's low volume low pressure (..not high volume). Beyond that LVLP, it's about distance from the surface and your rate of movement along with the type of paint/lacquer/sealer/etc. and its respective viscosity. I'm currently using it with a thick acrylic "thinned" with air-brush flow improver (from Amazon) for my HT Screen.

I've had mixed results with Harbor Freight guns. Some were OK, but the detail gun that I got was terrible. The pattern was a lazy C with lots of splatter outside the main pattern. Sure, it was a bad gun, but at that price just get another or two until you end up with one that works reasonably well. I ended up with a DeVilbiss conversion gun for a better off the gun finish than anything Harbor Freight had. Ron has his favorites from his days as a pro. Iawata, IIRC. Given the cost of this project, what's a couple hundred bucks for a decent gun?

[Scottg]

Yeah, it's a crap-shoot with Harbor Freight (..and it's easy to see that with their reviews) - but returns are easy. I guess then it's a matter of if you have one near you or not.

IF you've got a good one though, then it's pretty much down to the paint and flow improver (and distance from the work surface). I've seen the differences with good and cheap (but still good) air-brushes on an equal basis and there is very little difference, certainly not enough to justify 5 or more times the price - and that's with a sprayer where detail is everything. (..cleaning is critical of course, but it is for both good and cheap spray-guns - THOUGH you might be far more inclined to thoroughly clean a much more expensive spray-gun.) :W

[Horio]

Some nice clean looking 10 degree bevel cuts courtesy of Steve's new Woodworker II blade. Might need to invest in one myself someday.

[Steve Manning]

Getting some of the driver layout taken care of .....

First was getting some alignment dowels in place so I could transfer cutout centers down through the stack of boards.



After flush trimming the dowels.



Laying out driver cutouts on the first baffle.

[dar47]

Are you processing all 4 layers at once or are the dowels just dry fit and being used later?

[Steve Manning]

Are you processing all 4 layers at once or are the dowels just dry fit and being used later?

The dowels are a dry fit for alignment initially. I might process the outer two layers and then the inner two as pairs .... without double checking, I believe their cutouts are the same for each of those pairs. Also, 1 1/2" is not too bad to deal with in one shot ... 3" is another story. :W

[TEK]

Horio and Steve, are you building this together on the same location?