Another Wavecor Ardent build

[BobEllis]

This project was supposed to come after the completion of my https://www.htguide.com/forum/showth...sign-and-build but I didn't make much progress over the summer, and now cooler weather threatens my outdoor workspace. Even if it didn't get cold, the water goes off after Columbus Day, so it's a major push to get both sets of cabinets built. I will still do each step on the Poor Man cabinet first and then apply lessons learned to this build. The cabinet sides are 18mm Baltic Birch ply with 12 mm Aspen ply laminated to it. My local big box store didn't have 1/2" mdf.

I am using the Wavecor SW223BD02 instead of the no longer available original -01. Response and impedance curves look very similar so all it may take is adjusting the padding in the mid and woofer. I'm hoping Jon will get a chance to test and tweak for those building with the currently available driver. But until it gets to the top of the list again, I will go at least semi-active with a miniDSP.

As mentioned in the Poor Man thread, I have already started on the cabinets. Things went much more smoothly and quickly with a practice build under my belt. So far the only issue has been cutting the mortises for the top in the side panels. The Poor Man cabinets are just butt jointed, so this was a new procedure for me. Use a router table if you have one, it will make it easier, safer and less error prone. I tried to manhandle my Hitachi M12 3HP router swinging a 1.25" straight bit and an edge guide. The first panel went well, I just had to tweak the depth of cut to get that last 1/32". The second panel is where the trouble happened. I hadn't tightened the depth of cut stop enough and ended up taking out a whole lot more material than planned. This led to the router rocking, making it not only more material, but variable depth. Ugly. The good news is that the cabinet still seals, I will glue it up, neaten up the goof to 1/4" wide using my smaller Bosch router and put in a filler piece. I think that will be faster than making a new side and invisible.

Build progress pictures

Side glue up



Miter jig for sides - used an Incra rail attached to a piece of melamine at the proper angle. Clamps were a great idea, but I didn't make the back rail thick enough, so they were not used.



Rough cut braces. The day I did these it was raining so I couldn't go out and use the router. I ended up with more open area and likely no significant loss of rigidity.



Sanded and test fit. As you can see I sanded not because I obsess about perfection, only to minimize splinters.



Dry fit on back

[BobEllis]

By the way, since I don't yet have a router table, routing the dado in the mid bottom was a challenge. Again, router and edge guide, but how to hold the piece securely? Place the workpiece in the corner, cut from right to left. Attach vacuum hose before starting.



First cabinet dry fit. I've never built anything that would hold itself together with just one clamp before. I trimmed the top width so that the mid bottom and back seal after this was taken.



My back pain reducing work station. Nobody else was around, so I could set up on the step and stand on the ground. The work surface is 41" off the ground where I am standing. Much better for my 6'3" frame. I guess I need to make myself a tall bench or put a bench on cinder blocks.



Next up, baffle routing.

[dar47]

Making some real progress, it's nice when you dry fit and it looks like a real cab.:T

[Horio]

Love watching these build threads with so many progress photos. It's great to learn some from your experiences while I stock up parts and get ready for my build. I've got the SW223BD02's as well, and I'm also hoping Jon finds some time in his busy schedule to tweak the crossover for these drivers in the not too distant future.

[JonMarsh]

Love watching these build threads with so many progress photos. It's great to learn some from your experiences while I stock up parts and get ready for my build. I've got the SW223BD02's as well, and I'm also hoping Jon finds some time in his busy schedule to tweak the crossover for these drivers in the not too distant future.

I will be doing that soon, along with some modified crossover designs based on Bob's and Ron's choice of midrange drivers. But soon likely means early October....

[BobEllis]

Thanks Jon. I will be lucky to have either ready for crossovers by early October. That's plenty soon for me.

[TEK]

Looking like you have some great progress here.
When it comes to the holes in the bracing, I'm using tree different methods in the past.
1) get a big hull drill for your drill (http://www.listerengros.no/users/kvi...BOR_51MM_1.png)
2) you may use a guide or a bit with bearing on top, use clamps and scrap pieces to create a template to follow
3) make a circel jig for your router

There are surly many more methods, but these I'm using

[BobEllis]

I have a jasper jig that I'd planned to use. I was forced inside by rain and the thought of routing circles indoors with no dust collection on my Bosch router gave me visions of weeks of cleaning. As you may be able to tell, I used a 1" forstner bit at each corner then a saber saw to connect the dots. While nice round holes are pretty, these are just as functional with a bit more open space. Nobody but this community is ever going to see them and I made progress on a day that could otherwise have been lost. I'll put in lots of time and effort where it counts, though.

Glad I chose to dry clamp to get my assembly process down. It takes a specific clamping sequence to keep things from shifting out of square. The light is fading and with it my motivation to keep going. The first cabinet will be glued up tomorrow morning and should be ready to come out of the clamps by the time I get back from my bike ride. Then I will glue up the second and work on the Poor Man's facets. I now have a Japanese saw to practice using.

[Horio]

I will be doing that soon, along with some modified crossover designs based on Bob's and Ron's choice of midrange drivers. But soon likely means early October....

That's great news! I was thinking of trying to order some of the crossover parts around the end of the year, so that works very well.

[Renron]

But soon likely means early October....

Thanks Jon,
No rush here either, I'm slow and enjoying every minute of building these speakers.
Ron

[BobEllis]

A Cautionary Note

I had an incident yesterday using a Jasper jig on bamboo planks. Incident because no injury, but a lesson learned to pass on.

I'd been cutting holes in baffle layers for the woofers using an upcut spiral bit (outer face down) and things were going smoothly. The stuff machines beautifully. Then I didn't push the guide pin significantly into the sacrificial board underneath. As I finished the through cut the disc came loose and pinched the bit. I've had that happen in MDF and ply, which are soft enough that the result is just a gouge and a little kick. Bamboo is hard enough that the kick ripped the router out of my hands and flung it up at me. Somehow I managed to jump out of the way as it tumbled through the space where my chest had been. I didn't know I had reflexes like that anymore. The cutout disc was still spinning like a top when I pulled the plug on my router.

LESSON: Ensure that the pin of your circle jig extends firmly into the backer so that it will not come out when the disc comes free.

The gouges were cut with a spiral bit. That should give some idea how fast this happened.

[JonMarsh]

Certainly a cautionary tip worth passing on.

I didn't know I had reflexes like that anymore.

It's amazing what bit of adrenaline will do, but actually, there's no time for that to kick in- like you say, just has to be pure reflex. When that happens to me, I attribute it to my hours spent in the 90's on military flight sims and FPS, and more recently on RPGs... :W

[BobEllis]

Of course another way to avoid it is to not cut the disc completely free with the router leaving a web in 2-3 spots, saw through then use a flush trim bit to clean it up.

My past experience may have contributed to my current reflexes, too. Mine wasn't simulated, I was fortunate enough to get over 900 hours in the F-14. Sub/semi consciously planning options if something happens so when it does that processing step doesn't need to happen.

Wait a minute! You find time to play games with all that's on your plate?

[Steve Manning]

Scary stuff Bob ..... certainly glad it was an incident and not an accident. I'm sure that got the heart racing for a bit (no pun intended). Out of curiosity do you use any double stick tape under the disk portion? I use carpet tape and run several strips between main board and the sacrificial board, the more the merrier. It's sometimes a pain getting them separated but it certainly helps the pin keep things in place.

[BobEllis]

Carpet tape would be a good idea. I've tried some other double sided tapes with mixed results. Some disks spin even though the pin holds. It's on my shopping list before I go back to that part.

[Steve Manning]

The carpet tape sticks very well and is strong. The router bit has no problem cutting through it, and so far far I have no issues with stuff moving (knocks on wood, aka side of head), I use it all the time with router and other cutting activities. It adds a little time to the process, but I tend to error on the side of being anal when it comes to safety stuff, so it takes what it takes to try and keep body parts attached to the right places.

[BobEllis]

This is what happens when I get an "emergency" call from my son (traveling in Tokyo) in the middle of glue up. Well, half of it is. The other half is my cuts weren't quite square. This is the top of the mid back.



I spent far too much time pondering how to make a router jig to trim the end without tearing up the plywood. Then, while looking for something else I happened upon my spokeshave. Bingo. In less time than it would take to set up a jig, the end is trimmed. No ear plugs required. Ah, the joy of hand tools.





The offset on the bottom will be removed with a power plane. Just too much material coming off.

[Renron]

Bob,
Thanks for sharing your incident report. We appreciate the De-briefing. It behooves us all to remember what can happen and how fast it does when we least expect it. Congratulations on the cat like reflexes. We're all happy your safe. However, you failed to mention if the router was damaged by it's aerial adventures and hard landing.

That's very cool that you logged so much time in "the bird". My family has military thru out. I personally passed on the free trip to Saigon.

Your progress on both sets of speakers is amazing, and your right about not seeing the braces. Your version with more volume will only help the bass.

Here's a photo of Jon, his router had just escaped from his hands too.

[BobEllis]

No router damage. It didn't even affect jig centering. Of course landing on the grass helped.

Progress is being driven by the weather and water shutoff at the summer camp after Columbus Day. I thought being retired meant the end of external deadlines... I have a sneaky suspicion that these may be unfinished veneer throughout the winter. Unless I pay my Dad a visit in North Carolina. He'd appreciate that.

An unexpected advantage of the square holes in the braces is they make a convenient carry handle that fits my large hand. The space behind the upper woofer is almost exactly the center of gravity.

Ready for mid chamber lining and baffles. I think I'm going with sonic mat foam from PE and acousta-stuff.

[BobEllis]

I glued the outer two layers of baffle together and cut driver holes in one operation. After the flying router experience I decided to cut partway through, cut through with a saber saw and clean up with a flush trim bit. For this double thickness panel I think it ended up faster than cutting in from both sides. I used a down cut spiral bit to cut about 1" then drilled a hole for the saw blade. Using a Jon Marsh recommended Bosch 6 TPI saber saw blade for the last 1/2" was very quick. Then a shear cut flush trim bit made quick work of the rough edge.

Btw, I finally figured out a way to make sure I am in the right hole on the jasper jig. Good old blue painter's tape covering the adjacent holes.






Having 3 HP really speeds up material removal.

[Steve Manning]

Good idea with the painters tape ....... I've tried a grease pencil to mark the correct hole ..... works ok. I'll give the tape a try next time.

[BobEllis]

The part I feared most: the midrange recess. I originally tried an inlay template kit using a flange for the C90 Cell as a pattern. I couldn't keep the router level or following the edge. I ended up using the same method TEK did, except I was able to use the flange to set up my pattern rather than the driver. I screwed the flange to my pattern board, then screwed pieces of 18 mm BB tightly against it. Then I removed the flange and routed a recess. When I confirmed that the pattern was a good fit for the flange I cut out the center and used the pattern bit to clean up the edges. Then I mounted the pattern on the outer baffle and cut the recess with a 1/2" pattern bit. The flange radius is actually 7mm so there's a tiny bit of space at the corners. So small I didn't notice until I zoomed in on the picture below.

Making the pattern



The pattern and my attempt to follow the outline of the flange.



Recess finished. The flange is pushed to the opposite corner, this shows the total clearance, about .5 mm.



If I'd thought it through I would have used a pattern to cut the through hole before the flange recess. Oh well. The patter is made, I will have to use a couple bits to avoid the bearing riding on the space created by the recess.


I'll make the flange available to anyone who needs it for postage.

[BobEllis]

A mid day rainstorm put me inside so I lined the midrange chamber with sonic barrier foam. Interesting how noticeably deader the lined cabinet seems in response to a knuckle rap. Guess I'll have to line the woofer chamber, too. I'd planned to just use acousta-stuff.

[JonMarsh]

Everything has an effect... now, normally you won't be exciting the woofer enclosure in the frequency range where you near the upper components of the knuckle rap test... but it certainly can't hurt. That's why I did the lead and felt on the midrange enclosure, and that's why the new project has a long deep tunnel for absorbing the midrange wave. I'm still debating how I'll handle that, but I'm leaning towards lead sheet plus acoustic foam wedges such as wall treatments on all four side surfaces.

[JonMarsh]

The part I feared most: the midrange recess. I originally tried an inlay template kit using a flange for the C90 Cell as a pattern. I couldn't keep the router level or following the edge. I ended up using the same method TEK did, except I was able to use the flange to set up my pattern rather than the driver. I screwed the flange to my pattern board, then screwed pieces of 18 mm BB tightly against it. Then I removed the flange and routed a recess. When I confirmed that the pattern was a good fit for the flange I cut out the center and used the pattern bit to clean up the edges. Then I mounted the pattern on the outer baffle and cut the recess with a 1/2" pattern bit. The flange radius is actually 7mm so there's a tiny bit of space at the corners. So small I didn't notice until I zoomed in on the picture below.

Making the pattern

[ATTACH=CONFIG]24528[/ATTACH]

The pattern and my attempt to follow the outline of the flange.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]24529[/ATTACH]

Recess finished. The flange is pushed to the opposite corner, this shows the total clearance, about .5 mm.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]24530[/ATTACH]

If I'd thought it through I would have used a pattern to cut the through hole before the flange recess. Oh well. The patter is made, I will have to use a couple bits to avoid the bearing riding on the space created by the recess.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]24531[/ATTACH]

I'll make the flange available to anyone who needs it for postage.

That should work well- I used some kind of door jamb router bit for doing that part, and I made a outer guide tool using a dead C79 as my working guide.

[BobEllis]

Thank goodness I don't have a dead C79. The flange is a way of preventing that happening before I mount it.

[Renron]

"a dead C79", Just the thought of that makes me shiver.
Bob, nice of you to offer that flange for others to use. Good to see your progress on the Alpha build.
If for some weird reason I don't like the mid I'm using (not likely) I can always move up to the C79.
Ron

[BobEllis]

It was $40, IIRC. I'd like to see it get some use.

The thru holes are complete. Starting to look like a baffle.



Snug fit in the bag. A little room for finish.



BTW, Jon, does the orientation of the C79 matter? I've seen ears horizontal but your Ardents were vertical. Guessing you had a reason for that.

[BobEllis]

Looking to the near future, does anyone have any experience with a less expensive HVLP sprayer than Jon's Fuji? Thinking the one from Rockler or Harbor Freight at less than half the cost. I'm enjoying my return to speaker building, but thinking that I might not use the sprayer enough to justify the $400. I'm guessing the tradeoff will be sanding time vs. $$. I've got a couple conversion guns, but my 2.5 HP compressor can't really keep up. Thanks

[JonMarsh]

It was $40, IIRC. I'd like to see it get some use.

The thru holes are complete. Starting to look like a baffle.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]24534[/ATTACH]

Snug fit in the bag. A little room for finish.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]24535[/ATTACH]

BTW, Jon, does the orientation of the C79 matter? I've seen ears horizontal but your Ardents were vertical. Guessing you had a reason for that.

Some subtle differences in off axis behavior. I actually discussed that with some guys from Avalon at a show once, they dropped some "hints". You may not notice, but I suggest mounting as shown.

You're making some good progress... :T

[BobEllis]

Thanks, Jon. Figured it wasn't an aesthetic choice.

[Steve Manning]

Looking to the near future, does anyone have any experience with a less expensive HVLP sprayer than Jon's Fuji? Thinking the one from Rockler or Harbor Freight at less than half the cost. I'm enjoying my return to speaker building, but thinking that I might not use the sprayer enough to justify the $400. I'm guessing the tradeoff will be sanding time vs. $$. I've got a couple conversion guns, but my 2.5 HP compressor can't really keep up. Thanks

Hey Bob ..... I have an Earlex 5500 which I picked up from Woodcraft for ~$380. It came with 1.5 & 2.0 mm needles which I have put both sizes to use. Sometimes you find it cheaper but then you only get one needle with it. I have sprayed latex wall paint (thinned) as well as water borne wood finishes. I'm amazed at how good a finish you can get from one of these having no experience what so ever. I would highly recommend the 5500 if your looking in the $400 price range.

If I had any complaint it would be that it needs a sturdier hose, this one, though long enough, is a bit on the flimsy side. Going to the Earlex 6000 models gives you a better hose and a few other upgrades ..... not sure of the price on those. Though if you start up that road you might as well look at the Fuji as well.

If you do go the 5500 route let me know ...... I discovered some discrepancies in their documentation about thinning and had to contact Earlex to get the actual numbers.

Steve

[BobEllis]

Thanks Steve. Hoping not to spend that much, but we shall see. It turns out the Rockler and Harbor Freight systems are the same thing. You just pay $30 more if you buy through Amazon. Ouch!

[Steve Manning]

My son in-law bought a low end Earlex at Lowes that he used to paint his kitchen cabinets, they turned out looking great, I 'm pretty sure he spent under $125 for the unit. Everything is plastic, but it seemed to get the job done.

[BobEllis]

Thanks again, Steve. The Rockler unit appears to be a Chicago Electric item, and has good reviews both there and on Harbor Freight. Of course I am leery of the only good reviews in both places...

[Renron]

I've got a little experience with HVLP guns. M
I also have the Woodriver gravity conversion gun, although I have never used it. The price was fantastic and it feels like a decent gun. There are excellent reviews for both it and the purple Harbor Freight guns. Yeah, H.F. ??? Who would have thought? The Woodriver is on sale right now for ~$30. Hard to beat that deal! Check out reviews online.

http://www.woodcraft.com/product/149388/woodriver-pro-hvlp-spray-gun-with-600cc-plastic-cup.aspx

An option you might consider is to pick up 7 - 10 gallon reserve air tank and use it inline with your compressor, really helps when spraying large items ie: tables, bookcases. http://www.harborfreight.com/11-gall...ank-65595.html

The best gun I've ever owned was an Iwata LVLP 400LVB. Big bucks and I sold it because I didn't use it enough for it's purpose to justify keeping it. (metalic base auto finish)
There are some great guns out there, just depends on your budget. Homestead finishes has some good deals from time to time and Jeff Jewitt is one of the best when it comes to finishes. Check out the LVLP (AKA; reduced pressure) from Qualspray, very nice quality with stainless steel passages so you can spray waterborne if you want. Less expensive guns will be etched / damaged / rust from waterborne materials if you don't care for them properly.

http://homesteadfinishingproducts.com/products-we-offer/hvlp-spray-equipment/

Also just to make this post longer for ya, Grizzly has a very well reviewed spray gun. It's an LVLP gun too!

https://www.grizzly.com/products/H7667

Ron

[BobEllis]

Thanks, Ron. My compressor has a 21 gallon tank, perhaps my gun adjustments were off. I never got much further than spraying primer with a HF gun. I have one of their purple touch up guns and a deVilbiss finish line conversion gun that I've never used. (Back took me out shortly after purchase.). Guess I should give it a try before I buy something new.ops:

Edit - it's actually a Starting Line gun, needs 13.5 CFM at 40 psi. Even adding an aux tank to 5 SCFM at 40 PSI won't keep up with that gun long. I'll look into the guns you mentioned.

[Renron]

That startingline gun is not a bad gun for the money. With practice and correct product viscosity you should be able to get a good pattern from it. Practice makes , better.
I found my next gun, I'm going to Ebay the Woodriver to help pay for this one. I have no affiliation to this product.
Warwick 904 LVLP with a 1.3 or 1.4 tip size.

http://www.warwick-sprayguns.com/904.htm

At ~$145 this is the one to purchase. In the auto paint world it does epoxy primers all the way to clear coats. It's modeled after the Iwata W400 I believe. Which is a world class finish gun.
Lots of youtube videos to help you setup your startingline gun. Good quality products (top coats) are a must for high quality finishes.
Ron

[TEK]

I have the Iwata W-101 that I think gives good results. It's a small gun and I think you will do ok with your compressor.
Goes for around 60 usd new on ebay/aliexpress.
For the Ardent I do however find it a bit small, som I have upgraded/added a Iwata W-400. It's supposed to give a very good result, but I have not yet tested it out. A bit worried about available air - but I think I should be OK (will use a 3hp compressor and 3 50l tanks). The Iwata W-400 LV with cup goes for approx 190 usd on ebay with shipping.

As far as I can tell these looks genuine. If they are not, someone have made a heck of an effort to make them look the same (labels, ingraving, boxes, authentication mark, internal marking of parts and so on).

[BobEllis]

Thanks, TEK. The specs say the W101 wants almost as much air as my starting line gun. It's gotten more expensive, or the exchange rate changed. At EBay it's $135 and new price is about $190. Ouch. Sounds like the right gun for most smaller speaker projects, though.

I'm trying to decide whether to add an extra tank or two or just buy an HVLP system. Two 11 gallon tanks and hoses will cost about the same as the Rockler system.

[TEK]

Thanks, TEK. The specs say the W101 wants almost as much air as my starting line gun. It's gotten more expensive, or the exchange rate changed. At EBay it's $135 and new price is about $190. Ouch. Sounds like the right gun for most smaller speaker projects, though.

I'm trying to decide whether to add an extra tank or two or just buy an HVLP system. Two 11 gallon tanks and hoses will cost about the same as the Rockler system.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/ANEST-IWATA-W-101-hand-manual-spray-gun-1-0-1-3-1-5-1-8mm/551299572.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.2.4clAna&ws_ab_test=201556_2,201527_1_71_72_73_74_75,0_0

Here in Norway they typically sell 2.5-3hp compressors with 50 liters tanks (13 gallon) for 200-400 usd. If you go for a larger thank it's very soon very much more expensive. This means that there are a lot of small used compressors standing around.
As these 50 liters compressors are very common, and not that high quality, there are many defect units where the el-motor or pump is defect - but the thank itself is in perfect order.
I got two two 50 liters thanks for almost nothing by looking for units where the air-pump or the engine was defect.
I added a "want-to-by" ad in the local creglist to get hold of them.
(just make sure the thank is OK - and that they are not to old - much power in that compressed air).

[BobEllis]

Thanks, TEK

[Renron]

Another option is to connect another air compressor . You can run two little "pancake" compressors and double their CFM output. Just put a "T" in the line. It won't double the pressure, just the CFM.
Perhaps the local "Craigslist" or other free to sell newspaper has one for cheap. Noisy? Yep, but you can use your gun that you already own. It is a HVLP gun BTW.
I own a nice turbine and gun system that I am VERY familiar with and I think you can get better results with compressed air systems. ie; professional auto painters HVLP or LVLP guns. This one is an Asturo, made for small compressors, it would give excellent results without breaking the bank.

http://www.spraygunworld.com/products/Asturo/RSeries/Asturo%20R%20Series%20Wood.html

I've got a 1.5 HP 4+7 gallon tank compressor, I'm 100% sure it would work fine with the Asturo. When spraying I release the trigger at the end of each pass, reduces over-spray and wasted product. I always start the spray before and end after the object being sprayed. Compressor has time to catch up a little between passes. I'm a slow sprayer, I'm not doing production painting on cars.
HVLP turbine air gets HOT, makes the finish dry before splating on the surface of the object being painted, this can cause dry spots. HVLP with a turbine takes a LOT of practice to be good. I know from experience.
Ron

Tek. Very nice gun you got there! No wonder you work looks so good.

[Steve Manning]

Bob .... not to muddy the waters any further for you, but I thought you might find this article interesting. http://www.fujispray.com/Fine%20Wood...forLess%202014

[BobEllis]

Thanks all. A lot to consider. That FWW article didn't like the Rockler/HF system at all. Makes you wonder what the Rockler and HF reviewer's expectations were. Guess if I go that way it's the Fuji Jon recommended.

Dual compressors sounds interesting, but I'll likely have to wait until next year when it warms up again. I'm sure I could borrow a pancake compressor from a friend...

TEK, how much finish did you use per coat? Thinking of General Finishes EF, probably a bit more than 3 coats on a pair per quart.