Wavecor Ardent Mid Priced Build

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  • JonMarsh
    Mad Max Moderator
    • Aug 2000
    • 15261

    Wavecor Ardent Mid Priced Build

    OK, have the data now for the ScanSpeak 12MU4731- have FRD and ZMA files, too-


    First, a composite set of curves at 0 degrees, 15, and 30:

    Click image for larger version

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    Here's the impedance curves- point to a fairly clean motor with good inductance control:

    Click image for larger version

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    It will certainly be easy to work with, as regards crossover filter- no undesirable gyrations.


    Here, we have a look at distortion- standard 2.83VRMS drive, for comparison to my other measurements:

    Click image for larger version

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    A fairly typical SS profile- somewhat higher 2nd order, but pretty good performance on 3rd harmonic. This points to doing a crossover on the low end around 600 or above, which is no problem with the current Ardent design.

    Click image for larger version

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    Last edited by theSven; 07 April 2023, 16:48 Friday. Reason: Update image location
    the AudioWorx
    Natalie P
    M8ta
    Modula Neo DCC
    Modula MT XE
    Modula Xtreme
    Isiris
    Wavecor Ardent

    SMJ
    Minerva Monitor
    Calliope
    Ardent D

    In Development...
    Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
    Obi-Wan
    Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
    Modula PWB
    Calliope CC Supreme
    Natalie P Ultra
    Natalie P Supreme
    Janus BP1 Sub


    Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
    Just ask Mr. Ohm....
  • Renron
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2008
    • 749

    #2
    Thank you Jon,
    Your efforts are greatly appreciated and your timing could not be better. I just finished my 3 year long project which had to be completed before I could begin work on these magnificent speakers. The Wife unit just gave her approval to buy some lumber for this project too.
    As you know, I've decided that I would like to build a Mid price point Wavecor Ardent for a couple of reasons. As I've grown older, my hearing loss has gotten worse and I cannot hear crickets in one ear. Second is, frankly, Money. I also do not have the associated equipment to do justice to the "Full Monty" build either. I suspect I'm not alone in the Champagne tastes but Beer budget conundrum.
    Your help with the distortion measurements and XO design is truly a labor of love. Thank you. I'm sure the other builders who have come before me will glad to help with my future questions. Thanks in Advance!
    Should I start a new thread/build so I don't pollute Bob's Poor Man's Thread?
    Thanks,
    Ron

    Bob, Try looking around on Craigslist for a used cabinet saw, you'd be surprised how inexpensive they can be. I bought an old Delta Unisaw ~$275 and put $100 into it and it runs like brand new.
    Ardent TS

    Comment

    • Renron
      Senior Member
      • Jan 2008
      • 749

      #3
      Bob,
      Looking back at post #220, the silver dome on the Seas Tweeter looks good with Zaph's Mid. They complement each other well.
      Just thinking outloud.
      Ron
      Ardent TS

      Comment

      • 5th element
        Supreme Being Moderator
        • Sep 2009
        • 1671

        #4
        The 12MU measures very nicely. It's certainly not a bad proposition, low linear distortion and nice low non linear. Sure it has that typical 2nd order peak around where the usual surround/cone edge resides, but apart from that it's very nice. Expensive, but nice.
        What you screamin' for, every five minutes there's a bomb or something. I'm leavin' Bzzzzzzz!
        5th Element, otherwise known as Matt.
        Now with website. www.5een.co.uk Still under construction.

        Comment

        • Renron
          Senior Member
          • Jan 2008
          • 749

          #5
          Wavecor Ardent Mid Priced Build

          I absolutely love the look of the Ardent Speakers, a unique and modern design. I think Jon started that style about 25 years ago! 8O The rest of the world is just NOW catching up. The amount of work and hours of head scratching, keyboard pushing, and CAD work is amazing. Many thanks to Dar47 and Benthe8track, they were the first AFAIK to actually built these impressive speakers. Kudos Men. Of course everyone's favorite Mad Scientist is the driving force with these babies..... goes without saying.

          The Ardent speakers in their premium design are just too rich for my pockets and my supporting hardware would not produce the signal (quality wise) to do justice to these amazing speakers.
          Not to mention I couldn't hear their stunning qualities anyway, being a carpenter for 20 years will ruin your high frequency hearing. Duck Hunting for 40+ years doesn't help either. :B Getting older has it's pluses and minuses. Not complaining, just the facts.

          BobEllis has chosen to make the "Poor Man's" version of the Ardent. Should be very rewarding.

          My intention is to replicate this build at a modest price reduction, but still have world class speakers when completed.
          I will use the Wavecor 01 drivers,
          Replace the Accuton C90-9-079 drivers for ScanSpeak 12MU/4731 mid.
          Replace the ScanSpeak 6640 tweeter with the ScanSpeak 6600 tweeter.
          Replace the 2 front baffles made of Bamboo with Baltic Birch. Entire baffle will be BB.
          The rest of the cabinet construction will be the same as the "Full Monty" Ardent.
          Try to be as frugal possible with XO parts, but still use quality capacitors. They can add up real fast.

          I was lucky enough to buy all but one of the drivers on sale, Jon graciously offered to sell me one of his "extra" Wavecor drivers. :T Seriously, who has "extra" drivers. I think we all do......lets be honest. I know I've got a few "extras".

          So as Jon say's "Slow work takes time", I'll update this thread with pictures as I can.

          Ron
          Ardent TS

          Comment

          • Renron
            Senior Member
            • Jan 2008
            • 749

            #6
            I've started a new thread entitled "Wavecor Ardent Mid Priced Build" as that is my intention. With help from Y'all.
            OK, have the data now for the ScanSpeak 12MU4731- have FRD and ZMA files, too- First, a composite set of curves at 0 degrees, 15, and 30: Here's the impedance curves- point to a fairly clean motor with good inductance control: It will certainly be easy to work with, as regards crossover filter- no undesirable


            I've got the SS 6600 tweeters already, so I'll use those.

            I wish I understood how to read the graphs better, I get the basics but I've no personal experience (yet). I'm glad you think the 12MUs will be a reasonable, lower cost, replacement. I picked them up on sale.

            5th Element, your comments are appreciated and reassure me I'm on the right track with a Mid priced build. Any and all pointers are gladly accepted and welcome.
            Ron
            Last edited by theSven; 08 April 2023, 02:26 Saturday. Reason: date htguide url
            Ardent TS

            Comment

            • TEK
              Super Senior Member
              • Oct 2002
              • 1670

              #7
              being a carpenter for 20 years
              It's going to be interesting to see how a professional attacs this build.
              I hope that you will add some picture and notes about how you do things to share your knowledge with the rest of us:-)
              -TEK


              Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

              Comment

              • Renron
                Senior Member
                • Jan 2008
                • 749

                #8
                Tek,
                Thanks for the vote of confidence, I'll try to live up to your expectations.
                Ron
                Ardent TS

                Comment

                • benthe8track
                  Senior Member
                  • Feb 2008
                  • 371

                  #9
                  Looking forward to following your build Ron--as much as I did your Thor's back in the day

                  Comment

                  • dar47
                    Senior Member
                    • Nov 2008
                    • 873

                    #10
                    That's where he got the Thor idea from, the Ardents were what stop Ben from building those. Do you still have your Thors for a compare?

                    Comment

                    • Renron
                      Senior Member
                      • Jan 2008
                      • 749

                      #11
                      Dar47,
                      Guilty as charged! I was a proponent of the the Thors when the new cabinet designs were released to the public by Planet 10 and Scott Moose. The XOs were redesigned by Jmangie. I still have them and IMO at the time, they were the best sounding "kit" available for the $$$, not the best value. There is a difference. I do remember emails with Benthe8track. He was and is very kind.

                      I still enjoy my Thors, even more now with a new "Honey Badger" amp, 250W+. A far cry from my Pass F5.
                      I'll be happy to post my impressions and distinctions when I've completed the Mid Ardents. Gotta find a better name......

                      Ron
                      Ardent TS

                      Comment

                      • Renron
                        Senior Member
                        • Jan 2008
                        • 749

                        #12
                        Couple of questions after looking over the CAD files. Exemplary job on those, thank you very much for the time and effort. (standing ovation)
                        Plan wise; On the Wavecor Ardent Right Side the width is listed at 1' or 12". Which is the hypotenuse, math skills tell me the 90* base (of the triangle) is 11.81" or 11 13/16" is that correct? Cabinet depth measured at 90* is 11 13/6", Not including the Baffle Right?

                        Plan wise; On the Wavecor Ardent Mid Back Chamber, the volume of that enclosure is greater than the recommended cabinet size of 2.5 Liters. Does it matter? Am I misunderstanding the placement of the Mid-back? It looks to be placed directly over the side braces. 8 13/16" x 11 1/4" x 6 5/8" = 8.81 x 11.25 x 6.625 = 656.62 Cubic inches = 10.76 Liters . Confused.....

                        Thanks, Ron
                        Ardent TS

                        Comment

                        • Renron
                          Senior Member
                          • Jan 2008
                          • 749

                          #13
                          Hopefully, someone will answer my above question about mid speaker enclosure volume.

                          Now, I'm looking at the wavecor Ardent Center Brace page. Drawing says it's 1' 3 7/8" = 15 7/8" deep. Add up the numbers on the bottom (which locates the dado) and the numbers do not add up to the 15 7/8". They add up to 12 1/16".
                          What am I not seeing?
                          Moving on (same page) Length of the center brace says "2' 01/2" =24 1/2". Using the given lengths on the drawing (right and left) They add up to 22 3/4"......???????
                          What am I not seeing with these Numbers?????

                          Ron
                          Ardent TS

                          Comment

                          • TEK
                            Super Senior Member
                            • Oct 2002
                            • 1670

                            #14
                            Hi
                            I'm not sure, as I don't have the drawings right here, but have you accounted for tha fact that the parts are tilted 10 degrees backwards? I remember that I serveral times have to recalculate the measurements to take into account that it was tilted. And that it was a bit hard ro know, from the drawings, if the measurement shown was for the 90 degree or 80 degree line.

                            Edit:
                            Took a look at the drawing. 15 7/8" is from the left bottom to the right top. The numbers you are adding is from the left bottom to the right bottom. As the whole thing is thilted backwards, there is a differen (the offset from the right bottom to the right top)
                            -TEK


                            Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

                            Comment

                            • JonMarsh
                              Mad Max Moderator
                              • Aug 2000
                              • 15261

                              #15
                              I haven't personally been through the V2 CAD files in detail, but the measurements SHOULD be coming straight off the point to point distance in the file, not from human calculation.

                              Like the first version, using 7" drivers, these were modeled completely as 3D models, then 3D to 2D sheets created by the software, and dimensions added by CAD, defining the points using the 2D projection from the 3D model. They should be quite accurate- If you have access to an IGES viewer, we can get you the original 3D files if you want to cross check.

                              I know, I likely should go in and double check everything, reload and create my own sheet annotations, but you know, I trust those doughty Canadians and the contributions they've made to this project. If this isn't cleared up by the weekend, I'll go into the CAD files myself.
                              the AudioWorx
                              Natalie P
                              M8ta
                              Modula Neo DCC
                              Modula MT XE
                              Modula Xtreme
                              Isiris
                              Wavecor Ardent

                              SMJ
                              Minerva Monitor
                              Calliope
                              Ardent D

                              In Development...
                              Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                              Obi-Wan
                              Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                              Modula PWB
                              Calliope CC Supreme
                              Natalie P Ultra
                              Natalie P Supreme
                              Janus BP1 Sub


                              Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                              Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                              Comment

                              • TEK
                                Super Senior Member
                                • Oct 2002
                                • 1670

                                #16
                                From my experience - having followed those drawings - they are correct, but there are some messurements that is a bit difficult to understand, and not neassesarly to helpful when doing manual cut.
                                I'm talking about the box - not the end volume compared to what it should be, that's a different ballgame.
                                -TEK


                                Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

                                Comment

                                • Renron
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Jan 2008
                                  • 749

                                  #17
                                  Thank you Tek and Jon,
                                  10* cabinet angle has no bearing on these measurements, they are square to the interior of the box and have no relation to the ground level plane.
                                  I've looked at a lot of plans and finish schedules, some of these numbers just don't work out. Jon, I'll post a picture of what i'm talking about. Pictures are worth a thousand words.
                                  Something obvious i'm missing? it's possible, won't be the first time.

                                  Tek, I've never seen a construction measurement that was measured from bottom left corner to top right corner.
                                  Right, I appreciate your input. I'm talking about the box measurements too,
                                  Thanks,
                                  Ron
                                  Ardent TS

                                  Comment

                                  • Renron
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Jan 2008
                                    • 749

                                    #18
                                    Thanks for the help guys.
                                    Ron
                                    Ardent TS

                                    Comment

                                    • knowledgebass
                                      Senior Member
                                      • May 2013
                                      • 159

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Renron
                                      .
                                      Tek, I've never seen a construction measurement that was measured from bottom left corner to top right corner.
                                      Right, I appreciate your input. I'm talking about the box measurements too,
                                      Thanks,
                                      Ron
                                      This would tell you if you were square of the constructed measurement matched lower right to the top left measurement. I haven't reviewed the drawings but that would explain the measurement (although normally you can compare the two as-built measurements without knowing what the dimension should be).

                                      Comment

                                      • TEK
                                        Super Senior Member
                                        • Oct 2002
                                        • 1670

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Renron
                                        Tek, I've never seen a construction measurement that was measured from bottom left corner to top right corner.
                                        Right, I appreciate your input. I'm talking about the box measurements too,
                                        Thanks,
                                        Ron
                                        Hi Ron.

                                        Take a look of the attached image. I have transferred the lines between the figures to try to show what I think the measurements show.
                                        Click image for larger version

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                                        May this explain what you are wondering about for the center brace?
                                        -TEK


                                        Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

                                        Comment

                                        • dar47
                                          Senior Member
                                          • Nov 2008
                                          • 873

                                          #21
                                          Okay, Ron I started out as a carpenter type long ago but then got all messed up in Engineering. :E

                                          Example Ben has this very precise 3d model that lends itself to just pull parts off the model and cut. CNCing is very much mechanical in nature. To draw parts in Auto cad so it can be made by hand I open the parts in Auto Cad and had to choose a dimensional tolerance that can work to a 1/32" and some times rounds to a 1/16" We used materials that had thickness in both imperial and metric and I applied Engineering drafting practices. Dimension what comes out to the critical dimensions and state the angles needed.

                                          An example of this is the side (think part not whole cabinet). Overall length, width, angle and I stated the material we used for the build up of the part. If I was building it by hand I would layup the 1/2" MDF and 18mm BB then cut the panel to width longer then needed, cut bottom 10 deg., then top 10deg. and then the half laps top and back. If your material isn't the same you have to have the half laps adjusted but the parts overall dimension stays the same. So with out over thinking it I tried to dimension by part and make notes if you use different material then us. So trust me the parts are off the model and will fit. If I dimensioned Hypot. I would get in trouble quick.

                                          The cab model was adjusted to hit Jon's volumes or more as it's better to have more room for the base section. The mid section volume was taken from the original Ardent but Jon stated this volume was not critical for the new xover being applied so we choose an even number 6" from the front of the cabinet side walls and it doesn't line up with the T brace. This asked before and I kind of chuckled because if you cut the part to the correct parts dimension and dry fit it, it will end up at 6" from the front matching the top.:B




                                          This is tough to visualize with out viewing the model but I did think construction of the part.
                                          Last edited by theSven; 08 April 2023, 02:27 Saturday. Reason: Update htguide url

                                          Comment

                                          • dar47
                                            Senior Member
                                            • Nov 2008
                                            • 873

                                            #22
                                            Ah, I see why your bugged. The parts are not drawn up front, left, right side views as in 2d construction. They are free floating parts put in paper space. my buddy at work took the parts from the model and placed the part then rotated it, that's why in this case I shouldn't have showed you the overall width, just the thickness at top and side. But I did want to give you an idea of the overall size of the panel your starting with. 8O

                                            The parts are wire frame too. The last time I drew a 2d drawing was a neo angle pantry shelving unit I made for the new house. I had to take the parts in the door and construct it in the tight space. The drawing took forever though and 3d drawing goes fast after the parts are made but if your use to looking at straight views of 2d it can be weird. I should see if Ben can make a clip of the model rotating in wire frame and post it.

                                            Comment

                                            • Renron
                                              Senior Member
                                              • Jan 2008
                                              • 749

                                              #23
                                              Thanks All,
                                              I think that explains it. Leave it to a computer to really "F" things up. Only a computer would measure something that's square on a 10* angle.
                                              Good Picture TEK, Yep, that's why the numbers I came up with were different. I have no experience with CAD. Blueprints I can read. Could you imagine building a roof with the only measurements given are the ridges? ARGH. No wonder I was pulling my hair out.
                                              Here is how I had interpreted the drawings, from a carpenters brain. I cut things with saws, not milling machines. Not knocking mills, just we come from different backgrounds with different ways of looking at things.
                                              Thanks alot guys. Really appreciate all the help. I only cut one piece of wood today, I'm sure I can use it somewhere effectively. I'll post pictures.
                                              Attached Files
                                              Ardent TS

                                              Comment

                                              • Renron
                                                Senior Member
                                                • Jan 2008
                                                • 749

                                                #24
                                                Dar47,
                                                I can visualize 3d images just fine, it was the measuring that threw me off. I've never done it that way before. I'm sure my son the Engineer would have no problems with it. I know from now on.
                                                Thanks.
                                                Really appreciated.
                                                Great group of guys here.
                                                Knowlegebass,
                                                Yep, clear as mud now.
                                                Really, I got it, thanks for helping.

                                                Ron
                                                Ardent TS

                                                Comment

                                                • TEK
                                                  Super Senior Member
                                                  • Oct 2002
                                                  • 1670

                                                  #25
                                                  Happy to be able to shead some light on this for you. As I have buildt these (almost at least) I have been trough the same process as you. Not all the measurements is what you would think they should be when cutting the parts yourself, and some of the most obvious is not included, for example the total height and width of the center braces.
                                                  Just remember that the ones who made the drawing did'nt cut it themself and with some extra work to calculate the dimensions you need you should be ok :-)
                                                  -TEK


                                                  Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

                                                  Comment

                                                  • benthe8track
                                                    Senior Member
                                                    • Feb 2008
                                                    • 371

                                                    #26
                                                    I see the issue, the parts should have been rotated 10* (or just referenced from the centre line) before pulling the dimensions. Also the mixed units are confusing
                                                    I would have responded sooner but someone hit our fiber line with a backhoe and I've been in the dark ages other than my cell phone for 2 days.

                                                    You guys are doing a great job squad checking--will have to find some time to revise the drawings so future Ardent builders won't have the same struggles.
                                                    VerticalRotate.PDF
                                                    or

                                                    Click image for larger version

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                                                    Attached Files
                                                    Last edited by theSven; 08 April 2023, 02:11 Saturday. Reason: Update image location

                                                    Comment

                                                    • JonMarsh
                                                      Mad Max Moderator
                                                      • Aug 2000
                                                      • 15261

                                                      #27
                                                      I'll create nice PNG file from this and update the thread appropriately. Thanks guys...
                                                      the AudioWorx
                                                      Natalie P
                                                      M8ta
                                                      Modula Neo DCC
                                                      Modula MT XE
                                                      Modula Xtreme
                                                      Isiris
                                                      Wavecor Ardent

                                                      SMJ
                                                      Minerva Monitor
                                                      Calliope
                                                      Ardent D

                                                      In Development...
                                                      Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                      Obi-Wan
                                                      Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                      Modula PWB
                                                      Calliope CC Supreme
                                                      Natalie P Ultra
                                                      Natalie P Supreme
                                                      Janus BP1 Sub


                                                      Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                      Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                      Comment

                                                      • ---k---
                                                        Ultra Senior Member
                                                        • Nov 2005
                                                        • 5202

                                                        #28
                                                        All this measuring and planning seems way to complicated. I just cut everything too big and either flush trim or nibble away with additional cuts until the piece fits. (only half joking) But, I guess that is why I'm always in awe of some of the speakers I see posted. Keep up the good work. :T
                                                        - Ryan

                                                        CJD Ochocinco! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
                                                        CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
                                                        CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center

                                                        Comment

                                                        • Renron
                                                          Senior Member
                                                          • Jan 2008
                                                          • 749

                                                          #29
                                                          Fellow over achievers,
                                                          I was able to sleep well last night because you took the time and trouble to answer my post(s). You just don't know how much it bothered me the #s didn't work out. Thank you.

                                                          Benthe8track,
                                                          Yep, that's where the problems started. That new rotated drawing of the center brace is the cat's meow. Just what an old termite like me is used to looking at. Thanks. I agree, fractions are ugly and metric is easier, but we work with what's common and accepted baselines. I knew a guy who could do stair horse calculations in his head, amazing fellow.

                                                          I understand how the mid chamber is mandated by the height of the block. Just for the sake of discussion, what is the optimum sealed enclosure size for the Accuton C90-6-079?
                                                          Looking around the "web", I found 6.3L to be preferred enclosure volume.
                                                          Here is a link to an unbelievable amount of Thiele Small info. on the C90-79.

                                                          I'm not even using the C90, , I do see why Jon like it so much though, almost zero 2nd and 3rd harmonics. Very Clean!

                                                          Ron
                                                          Ardent TS

                                                          Comment

                                                          • JonMarsh
                                                            Mad Max Moderator
                                                            • Aug 2000
                                                            • 15261

                                                            #30
                                                            That's a heck of a page... :T
                                                            the AudioWorx
                                                            Natalie P
                                                            M8ta
                                                            Modula Neo DCC
                                                            Modula MT XE
                                                            Modula Xtreme
                                                            Isiris
                                                            Wavecor Ardent

                                                            SMJ
                                                            Minerva Monitor
                                                            Calliope
                                                            Ardent D

                                                            In Development...
                                                            Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                            Obi-Wan
                                                            Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                            Modula PWB
                                                            Calliope CC Supreme
                                                            Natalie P Ultra
                                                            Natalie P Supreme
                                                            Janus BP1 Sub


                                                            Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                            Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                            Comment

                                                            • Renron
                                                              Senior Member
                                                              • Jan 2008
                                                              • 749

                                                              #31
                                                              It's Official ..........Sawdust!

                                                              Well now I've done it, First sawdust! Tomorrow those holes will be routed and more parts cut. :T
                                                              Bob, how's your build coming along?



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                                                              Ardent TS

                                                              Comment

                                                              • BobEllis
                                                                Super Senior Member
                                                                • Dec 2005
                                                                • 1609

                                                                #32
                                                                Nice to see your progress, Ron. I'm back at my Dad's, getting him set up at home post surgical rehab. The second cervical fusion seems to have done the trick. Poor old guy, now trying to recondition after pretty much sitting still since October.

                                                                I have my baffles with me, looking to get the midrange chamfer completed and then get them glued up before heading north again next week. All parts are cut to width, next is cutting to length/angle and bevels. I'm going to brace my Poor Man's build a little differently, mostly just a cross brace. Time and weight savings. Have to get the second build parts cut before the weather gets too cold in upstate NY.

                                                                Comment

                                                                • Renron
                                                                  Senior Member
                                                                  • Jan 2008
                                                                  • 749

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Glad to hear your Dad is doing better. Funny you should mention bracing, I'm looking at doing somethings different too.
                                                                  Ron
                                                                  Ardent TS

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • ---k---
                                                                    Ultra Senior Member
                                                                    • Nov 2005
                                                                    • 5202

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Good cross bracing should be suffice. I think we get carried away sometimes with our bracing. But it is fun.
                                                                    - Ryan

                                                                    CJD Ochocinco! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
                                                                    CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
                                                                    CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • Renron
                                                                      Senior Member
                                                                      • Jan 2008
                                                                      • 749

                                                                      #35
                                                                      A short update, with photo
                                                                      Nothing really, just more brace material ripped, drilled, routed and sanded. Man, that's a lot of holes! The wife unit came out and asked if I was finished making her ears bleed. LOL . She doesn't like the sound of the router table. :B
                                                                      To me it sounds like progress.
                                                                      Ron

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                                                                      Ardent TS

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                                                                      • TEK
                                                                        Super Senior Member
                                                                        • Oct 2002
                                                                        • 1670

                                                                        #36
                                                                        Your sanding the inner braces in addition to routing them?
                                                                        This takes perfection to another level :-)

                                                                        Are you hand-sanding?
                                                                        -TEK


                                                                        Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

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                                                                        • Renron
                                                                          Senior Member
                                                                          • Jan 2008
                                                                          • 749

                                                                          #37
                                                                          Originally posted by TEK
                                                                          Your sanding the inner braces in addition to routing them? Doesn't everyone?
                                                                          This takes perfection to another level :-)

                                                                          Are you hand-sanding?
                                                                          Yes, and power sanding with the Porter Cable Jon recommended. Best random orbital I've ever used. That's saying something too.

                                                                          Ron
                                                                          Ardent TS

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                                                                          • dar47
                                                                            Senior Member
                                                                            • Nov 2008
                                                                            • 873

                                                                            #38
                                                                            I got one of those too, put 220 on and no swirl marks on cabinet face frames, put 60 on and you have a belt sander! I didn't do ours as we did 8 cabs and there was just no time but I did round over all the holes by hand, HaHa.

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                                                                            • Renron
                                                                              Senior Member
                                                                              • Jan 2008
                                                                              • 749

                                                                              #39
                                                                              Dar47, after that you must have arms like Popeye!
                                                                              I hope my speakers come out as nice as your and Ben's. Oh yeah, Jon's too. Tek, I think your next on that list.
                                                                              Ardent TS

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                                                                              • Renron
                                                                                Senior Member
                                                                                • Jan 2008
                                                                                • 749

                                                                                #40
                                                                                I was able to glue the braces into the MDF/HDF backs today, 100* so the glue dries quick. :T
                                                                                The backs are run long on purpose and are easy to cut to proper length at a later time. Tomorrow the HDF sides!
                                                                                Ron

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                                                                                Ardent TS

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                                                                                • kevinm
                                                                                  Senior Member
                                                                                  • Jun 2013
                                                                                  • 417

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  beautiful handiwork so far, Ron. I don't know about everyone else, but precise cuts that look CNC'd always make me teary eyed.

                                                                                  Quick question, I see you're mentioning HDF. What thickness are you using? Where'd you find that stuff? How much?

                                                                                  Okay, maybe 3 questions.

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                                                                                  • 5th element
                                                                                    Supreme Being Moderator
                                                                                    • Sep 2009
                                                                                    • 1671

                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    Sanding the inner braces...well that's some serious commitment. The only sanding I do of interior things is to remove anything that could cause a splinter or a sharp edge that could cause a cut! Nice work though
                                                                                    What you screamin' for, every five minutes there's a bomb or something. I'm leavin' Bzzzzzzz!
                                                                                    5th Element, otherwise known as Matt.
                                                                                    Now with website. www.5een.co.uk Still under construction.

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • TEK
                                                                                      Super Senior Member
                                                                                      • Oct 2002
                                                                                      • 1670

                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      Looking very nice!
                                                                                      Have you made the sides and baffel, or are you gluing this up without dryfitting it all first?
                                                                                      I, and from what I have seen, many others, first cut all the parts, then dryfit everything and then glue it all up.
                                                                                      -TEK


                                                                                      Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

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                                                                                      • JonMarsh
                                                                                        Mad Max Moderator
                                                                                        • Aug 2000
                                                                                        • 15261

                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        Originally posted by 5th element
                                                                                        Sanding the inner braces...well that's some serious commitment. The only sanding I do of interior things is to remove anything that could cause a splinter or a sharp edge that could cause a cut! Nice work though

                                                                                        Ron is a true craftsman, a dying breed (but not in his case!). I'm thoroughly enjoying watching this unfold. :W
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                                                                                        • Renron
                                                                                          Senior Member
                                                                                          • Jan 2008
                                                                                          • 749

                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          KevinM,
                                                                                          1/2", it is SRMDF and is heavier than MDF, not as heavy as HDF, purchased from a local hardwood/plywood wholesaler. 4x8 sheet is $24.52
                                                                                          SRMDF is Super Refined MDF, the particles or grains of sawdust glued and pressed together are much smaller. It cuts much better, cleaner edges and doesn't bow or banana like regular MDF. Not quite HDF, but close. Sort of right between MDF and HDF. I had asked for HDF but they were out of 1/2" at the time I bought it, so I got the next best thing. Sorry for misleading you.

                                                                                          5th Element,
                                                                                          I too sand to prevent splinters, once upon a time my hands were tough enough to rarely get splinters. Not any more, I'm glad!

                                                                                          Tek,
                                                                                          I'm a stick builder, meaning I measure, cut, glue. Then repeat the process with the next component. I do dry fit before glue thou.

                                                                                          Too hot today, 106*. More parts cut today before it got hot. Here's a great tool for measuring angles, I used it for cutting crown moldings. (I hate crown moldings.....upside down and backwards cuts)
                                                                                          Dado cuts on 3 sides of the box.
                                                                                          Ron

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                                                                                          Ardent TS

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