Blink's Khanspire Build Thread

[AdelaaR]

To open up the backs of the baffle I used what I call "an electric rasp" ... it's basically a fine pointed band sander:



With this tool it was surprisingly easy to do.

[---k---]

I've used a hand rasp. A little elbow grease and it works well.


If you use PL Premium polyurethane glue, it comes in a caulk tube and has a high solids filler content. It works very well to bridge cracks. Afterwords, bondo works well. I've used both. See the Khancenter thread for the PL glue recommendation I got.

[Blink]

I originally started with the rasp, but the mdf clogged it up and I had to blow it out after every couple strokes!

[cjd]

I use a chamfer or ogee bit in the router...

[Blink]

OK I'm gonna pick up some of that PL glue for the rest of the baffles. I've only attached the back baffle to one of the cabinets. I'm not even sure if there are gaps, but I'm paranoid, so I'm gonna try to silicone the seams on this one (I can reach them all except behind the mid enclosure) and then just use the PL glue on the remaining 3 so I can rest assured.

[---k---]

Sounds good. I feel I should mention that with the PL glue, good stuff but wear gloves and plan on some clean up of the stuff that squeezes out of the joints.

[CADman_ks]

Sounds good. I feel I should mention that with the PL glue, good stuff but wear gloves and plan on some clean up of the stuff that squeezes out of the joints.

I would echo this as well. I've only used this stuff one time, and when I did it scared me. In a panic, I tried to wipe off the stuff that was oozing out with water, and that does NOT work! It just turns into a sticky gooey mess that is smeared all over everything.

Let it squeeze out, and then after it's try, run a chisel or knife under it to simply pull it off. One thing that I would be a little bit concerned about though, is that the glue might pull off some of the outside of the MDF, since you used MDF. PL glue is some sticky stuff, and it does adhere.

That's just one more reason to use BB plywood, right ---k---? :B

[Blink]

Will using paint thinner instead of water to wipe it off work??

[---k---]

probably not. just let it dry and then chip it off or trim it off with your router. the more you try and deal with it when it is wet the bigger the mess you'll likely make. Good stuff, but it is like silicone caulk if you've ever worked with that. When wet, it is a mess to deal with.

[CADman_ks]

probably not. just let it dry and then chip it off or trim it off with your router. the more you try and deal with it when it is wet the bigger the mess you'll likely make. Good stuff, but it is like silicone caulk if you've ever worked with that. When wet, it is a mess to deal with.

I concur 100%.

Just walk away as bad as it looks, and it WILL look bad. Plan on it.

[Blink]

I put the fiberglass in one of the enclosures tonight. Just used a big pair of scissors to cut the fiberglass down to size. I used a hot glue gun to attach it to the sides of the mdf. (Yes the hot glue is still hot even through the gloves I was wearing... and yes my hands did look like cotton candy with the fiberglass stuck to the gloves ) 2" thick on the back, and approximately 1" on the sides. I ripped and cut the fiberglass in half to get the 1" (which is why its bigger and smaller in some places)



Went ahead and glued the front baffle on this box as well. Got a nice squeeze out all around, only a little more in some places.



And, I thought I had a fool proof plan for not breaking the harbor freight clamps and still getting good pressure out of them. Clamping it down tight with a good clamp, then clamp the harbor freight one right next to it, then release the good clamp. It was going well, but I still broke another one

[---k---]

Looking good. :T My harbor freight pipe clamps have served me well. But, I can imagine those trigger clamps being prone to breakage. Good tools are expensive. I've seen Woodcraft have the pipe clamps on-sale from time to time and picked up a couple.

[CADman_ks]

What beaks on those HF clamps? The actual clamping mech?

[Blink]

The trigger is the part that breaks off. It seems to be at random pressures too, sometimes I'll get half a squeeze out of it, sometimes I'll get two squeezes out of it.


I think I'm gonna try and get some pipe clamps to replace them today.

[AdelaaR]

I don't think the problem is in the design but in the materials.
Those trigger clamps do look like they're poor quality so I'm not surprised they break.
I've got a decent trigger clamp here that can take 200 kilo's of pressure without any problem.
Since making my defusers though, I started to not like my trigger clamp since the arms of it are very thick ... kind of like yours have ... and it makes it unhandy to insert it into small cavities while applying pressure.
I use simple cheap deep throat bar clamps now and they are more versatile.

[CADman_ks]

The trigger is the part that breaks off. It seems to be at random pressures too, sometimes I'll get half a squeeze out of it, sometimes I'll get two squeezes out of it.
...

I think I'm gonna try and get some pipe clamps to replace them today.

If you're getting pipe clamps from HF, one would have to assume that they couldn't screw those up as easily, since they are cast iron, but hey, this is HF, so all bets are off there.

I have both Irwin style clamps like you broke, and pipe clamps. One bad thing about pipe clamps is that you have to adjust them on both ends. You have to grab the "moving" end to take out most of the slop, and then you have to go to the other end to do the tightening. That's OK, and it works, but generally speaking, I personally think that pipe clamps are a little more clumsy than the squeeze clamps. Pipe clamps are also heavier.

With that being said, pipe clamps are bullet proof, and they can crank the pressure down if you really need to...

[Blink]

So I went back to harbor freight today and they actually exchanged the broken ones for new ones, Ill try hard not to break these! I had a spare 3/4 pipe I didn't have a clamp on so I picked up a clamp kit for it as well, so there's one more clamp

Took care of the squeezed out glue today, the chisel worked great and the glue only tore off the face of the MDF on the hangover that was going to be routed off.



Got the back baffle flush trimmed and the front rounded over tonight on one cabinet, and I'm very happy with how it turned out.



The second cabinet has the back glued and clamped right now.

I really want to put the veneer on this one already, but I think I'm gonna wait and get everything hooked up to make sure I don't have any leaks first.

Before I veneer these, do I need to fill in the tiny cracks with wood filler, or will it be fine?

[AdelaaR]

I see you have already started working out to be ready for when you'll have to move these speakers around.
No seriously: nice going there ... looks great

[cjd]

You want a smooth surface to veneer and should fill cracks, dings, etc. They will telegraph through otherwise.

Looking good!

[CADman_ks]

So I went back to harbor freight today and they actually exchanged the broken ones for new ones ...

Most of their hand tools do have a lifetime warranty on them, and I have heard others say that they replace things that are broken. It's good to know that they do at least honor the warranty.

...

Took care of the squeezed out glue today, the chisel worked great and the glue only tore off the face of the mdf on the hangover that was going to be routed off. ...

That's GREAT! After telling you to wait, I was a little bit concerned that the face of the MDF might peel off of there as well when you chiseled it off.

They are looking GREAT!!!

[Blink]

Thanks for the compliments guys!!

You want a smooth surface to veneer and should fill cracks, dings, etc. They will telegraph through otherwise.

Man, this is not the answer I was wanting! I had this crazy idea in my head all the little cracks and dings wouldnt show through an I was gonna be saving alot of finishing time by veneering. It's my least favorite part mainly because Ive had horrible success in the past. First time I just used spackling, it shrank in the screw holes. Then wood filler, but it expanded over time. I suppose I'll try bondo this time, I think I've got a good idea on how to use it based on everyones posts on it.

[CADman_ks]

...
Man, this is not the answer I was wanting! I had this crazy idea in my head all the little cracks and dings wouldnt show through an I was gonna be saving alot of finishing time by veneering. It's my least favorite part mainly because Ive had horrible success in the past. First time I just used spackling, it shrank in the screw holes. Then wood filler, but it expanded over time. I suppose I'll try bondo this time, I think I've got a good idea on how to use it based on everyones posts on it.

I actually enjoyed the veneering process, once I got over the shakes of starting!! :P

I'm kind of in the same boat as you, but my ship has sailed!!! I DID have some hairline cracks, and some of my screwholes were not perfectly filled to the top when I did my veneer. :M I'm NOT going back and redoing my veneer at this point, so it is what it is in the future. I guess that time will tell.

I don't want to scare you, but, I will tell you that me and Bondo did not get along well when I used it. Looking back on it, I kind of think that part of the problem is that the MDF tends to suck the moisture out of the Bondo. So, if you're putting it on, and you've got your spatula loaded up, and you keep going from hole to hole, or seam to seam, the Bondo gets drier and drier, and eventually, it's just kind of hard. This actually happens pretty quickly. The other issue that I personally had with the Bondo was that the open working time was pretty short, so once it's mixed, you've got to be moving pretty quickly.

I know that others have used it with success, so maybe they can chime in with some tips on how to make it work better. I wish that it would have worked better for me...

[cjd]

Mix sawdust with pva (yellow or white) glue. Nice filler.

[Blink]

Mix sawdust with pva (yellow or white) glue. Nice filler.

I think I'm gonna give this method a try. I thought maybe you would suggest I just leave the bare mdf though

Front baffle glued on the second cabinet. I still don't think I have enough clamps for it, although I'm sure the answer is always you can never have enough clamps

[BeerParty]

you can never have enough clamps

+1

Coming along well now, I hope trying to get a good finish doesn't sour the experience for you. It's always the hardest part for me too.

[CADman_ks]

....

Coming along well now, I hope trying to get a good finish doesn't sour the experience for you. It's always the hardest part for me too.

I don't know that I would say that finishing is hard, as much as I would say that it's very detail orientated. And because of that, it takes a LONG time (physically) to do it, and make it look good. I think that it's very easy then to get discouraged with it, because it often feels like you're not getting anywhere.

I know that it's taken me a while to come to that realization that finishing something just takes time, IF you want it to look good. I've found that if I take my time, and excersize some patience, I can put a pretty decent finish on things. And, with practice, it's gets better every time. That doesn't mean that it gets any quicker, though. You might find some shortcuts, but it still just takes time...

[Blink]

I think the most frustrating part with finishing for me is the amount of work I put into it, and then I still know about all the flaws!

OK so crossover work time I know you guys probably hate this question (and even more so because of my sloppy work and bad camera) but I would love it if someone would evaluate my crossover
Mid:



Tweeter and woofer:

[CADman_ks]

I think the most frustrating part with finishing for me is the amount of work I put into it, and then I still know about all the flaws!
...

Yup, and that's actually part of the experience / practice part of the equation.

I know where every flaw is RIGHT now. A while from now I won't where some of them are, and a while longer from now I'll know where less are, and then eventually, I won't know where they are at all.

I know that we talk about it all the time, and I think that we are all too critical of ourselves, me included. At some point, make the decision to live life, and don't sweat the little things. Do the best that you can, and be happy with it. I try to take this attitude, and when I do, I think finishing actually becomes easier. Sometimes "fixing" stuff honks it up further than it was to begin with, and if I had just let it go, it would have been fine. No one would have ever noticed.

While we all strive to make everything perfect, obviously that doesn't happen, and never will. There comes a time when you say, "That's as good as I'm going to get it, and I'm going to live with it, and it IS going to be good."..

[AdelaaR]

Evaluation of the crossover: it would be better to actually solder it together

[AdelaaR]

Do the best that you can, and be happy with it.

I couldn't agree more.
The finishing isn't important for the sound ... it's only aesthetic.
The finishing on my F4's isn't all that ... but it looks fine from a normal viewing distance and they sound just great

[JonMarsh]

Evaluation of the crossover: it would be better to actually solder it together

+1. Also, I'm a bit OCD about putting things together, neat and orderly. But then I'm not familiar with the recommended Khanspire Xover layout, either.

In the end, it's not how nicely the crossover components are laid out, or how top notch the finishing job is, but how much pleasure they bring to you when you press the play button or drop the needle, and lean back and close your eyes to listen....

[cjd]

+1. Also, I'm a bit OCD about putting things together, neat and orderly. But then I'm not familiar with the recommended Khanspire Xover layout, either.

In the end, it's not how nicely the crossover components are laid out, or how top notch the finishing job is, but how much pleasure they bring to you when you press the play button or drop the needle, and lean back and close your eyes to listen....

Recommended layout? My only recommendation, which looks like it's done well, is paying attention to inductor relationships. There are always ways to tighten stuff up, but if the space is there, why?

And I *always* twist and test, then solder. Solder holds it together, but the connections are wire-to-wire that way.

[---k---]

You guys just have too high of expectations when it comes to finishing!

Evaluation of the crossover: it would be better to actually solder it together

Blahhh. Mine traveled to DIY Iowa with my crossovers just twisted together and were very well received. I think it was two or three months before I took them out and soldered them. Solder smoger.

I know you were joking. I jest also. Solder is better. But, I learned from Chris to twist them together and listen for a while to make sure everything is right before soldering. They function perfectly well just twisted.. or should if you've done it right.

[---k---]

OK so crossover work time I know you guys probably hate this question (and even more so because of my sloppy work and bad camera) but I would love it if someone would evaluate my crossover

For my speakers, I don't mind taking a look. But I really need a straight top down photo that gets everything in. It's a tough crossover to check over the internet, but I'll give it my best shot.

[Blink]

For my speakers, I don't mind taking a look. But I really need a straight top down photo that gets everything in. It's a tough crossover to check over the internet, but I'll give it my best shot.

Thanks so much! I'm slightly embarrassed I don't have a more clear picture or layout but please feel free to give up on it if you can't make out what is what.
Mids:



Tweeter and woofer:

[---k---]

I spent about 10 minutes looking at your photos. They generally look right to me. I'm not seeing a connection between the two woofer inductors and the 180 uH cap, but they all cross there, so I'm guessing it is just the photo. Make sure all three of those components are twisted together.

I like the ground wire approach to laying these things out, because it makes it a little easier to check. One check I always make is to count the number of connections to the ground on the schematic and then count them on your ground wire.

Curt Campbell has an article about laying out crossovers here, if you haven't seen it.

http://speakerdesignworks.com/nodal_analysis.html

But, it looks right. So make sure you get the woofers in parallel and the mids in series. Make sure you get the phases right, and you should be good.

[Blink]

I really appreciate your help looking at them! I'm ashamed to say its been too long since my EE classes to trust just myself (I say ashamed because its only been 7 years).
But yes, you are correct, the woofer inductors are not stripped yet so I didn't twist them together yet. Whats the easiest way to get the coating off the end of that wire? I'm thinking sandpaper?

[Blink]

So I pulled my other P-core inductor out of the packaging...



:cry: :cry:
I'm so close to finishing this...can I still use it or do I have to send this one back?? Is this a sign I should have gone with the upgraded one?

[---k---]

Call PE. I bet they'll ship you a new one without having to ship that one back.

Yes sandpaper the inductor wire. Burning with a small torch also works.

[Blink]

Well you were right, they are shipping another one tomorrow and I don't have to ship the broken one back. I suppose this means I'll go ahead and start finishing the cabinets now, which is probably a good thing since I keep reading people don't want to take the drivers out and finish them after hearing them

[CADman_ks]

....

Yes sandpaper the inductor wire. Burning with a small torch also works.

Aren't these ends usually tinned? It's obvious that his are not.

I've bought inductors from PE and Erse both, and all of the ones that I have ever received have already been tinned...

[Blink]

So I filled all the seams with a sawdust and glue mixture (about equal parts of each). Using the PL glue I had a slightly larger than normal gap to fill. Worked pretty well initially, but it is a pain to sand. I thought it would sand off easily like wood filler, but it takes significantly more time even with 60 grit paper.

[CADman_ks]

... I thought it would sand off easily like wood filler, but it takes significantly more time even with 60 grit paper. ...

Yeah, glue gets hard when it's dry. Not easy to sand...

[cjd]

Might have needed more sawdust. I've only found it marginally difficult to sand.

Oh well. You'll get there. Sorry for suggesting something that's miserable.

[CADman_ks]

... sorry for suggesting something that's museranble.

LOL!

Word of the day: museranble.

I had to look that one up. Here's what it says:

No results found for museranble:
Did you mean miserable :rofl: