My Natalie P Journey Begins

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  • wkhanna
    Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
    • Jan 2006
    • 5673

    My Natalie P Journey Begins

    I will be pulling the trigger on a table saw and router this weekend. That’s the easy part!

    Upgrades over the past year have made my speakers which where once the best part of my system now its weakest link. I have decided to start with the 55 liter Nat P, in a down fire port version. I think I can easily live with them as I develop my cabinet making skills and eventually go for something bigger. After they are finished, I plan on constructing two Berringer powered 12" subs (suitable for my current room) to complement the package for both music and HT. Music is however my main focus.

    My current speakers use titanium ferro fluid tweeters, and I love their sound. I do suffered some hearing loss in the upper fq, so this may be why I find them to my liking. I also listen a higher than average SPL, so I was considering using the Seas tweeter.

    Anyone have an opinion on my reasoning before I cast my design in Stone?

    TIA
    Last edited by ThomasW; 28 January 2007, 20:40 Sunday.
    _


    Bill

    Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
    ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

    FinleyAudio
  • wkhanna
    Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
    • Jan 2006
    • 5673

    #2
    I stopped at HD today on the way home form work. They have BT3100 on clearance for $229.
    I think I will stop back tomorrow and bring it home. Now for a router.
    _


    Bill

    Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
    ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

    FinleyAudio

    Comment

    • ThomasW
      Moderator Emeritus
      • Aug 2000
      • 10934

      #3
      That's a great price..... :T

      Now it's a discontinued model, but the level of support for it is better than any other product out there.

      IB subwoofer FAQ page


      "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

      Comment

      • wkhanna
        Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
        • Jan 2006
        • 5673

        #4
        Step one: Put your new saw together

        Step two: Explain to the wife that you can make stuff for her too.

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        _


        Bill

        Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
        ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

        FinleyAudio

        Comment

        • gimpy
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2004
          • 119

          #5
          Looks nice. I also have one and enjoy using it. I've got a "shark guard" on order (upgraded blade guard/splitter).

          good luck, Frank

          Comment

          • wkhanna
            Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
            • Jan 2006
            • 5673

            #6
            I am beginning to draw up my cut list based on a ported tower version of the Nat P.

            I am not limited by space so I would like use the max vol recommended for this design (around 60-63 liters, I beleive).
            I understand that the baffle width is critical the performance/function so obviously I can not go wider, but I seem to remember a reference to a ratio of width to depth that was said to optimal for rectangular cabinets, but can’t seem to find it using ‘search’. I figure I could use this ratio to determine the depth of the internal dimension, and then go as tall as needed to achieve the final necessary volume. Does anybody happen to remember the ‘Golden Constant’ I’m looking for?
            _


            Bill

            Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
            ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

            FinleyAudio

            Comment

            • Dennis H
              Ultra Senior Member
              • Aug 2002
              • 3791

              #7
              I wouldn't worry about magic ratios. The idea behind them is to place standing waves at different frequencies in the different directions but a better solution is to use some batting on the inside of the walls to damp the internal standing waves so they aren't a problem. I'd first set the width as you mentioned. Then set the height to get the tweeter at seated ear level. Finally set the depth to get the cabinet volume.

              Comment

              • wkhanna
                Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                • Jan 2006
                • 5673

                #8
                Thanks for the advice, and now you have brought up another question I was pondering.

                I would like to set the tweeter height at ear level to my ‘prime’ seating position (these speakers will be used for music 90% of the time). Is it possible to relocate the position of the speaker cut-outs relative to the top of the cabinet while still maintaining the same dimensional grouping of the three drivers relative to each other? Or does the dimension from the top of the cabinet to the driver pattern need to stay as shown to maintain the designed performance?
                _


                Bill

                Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                FinleyAudio

                Comment

                • wkhanna
                  Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                  • Jan 2006
                  • 5673

                  #9
                  Originally posted by gimpy
                  good luck, Frank
                  Thanks Frank.

                  I just finished the watching the DVD that came with the saw. It is much more capable than I was expecting.
                  _


                  Bill

                  Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                  ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                  FinleyAudio

                  Comment

                  • ThomasW
                    Moderator Emeritus
                    • Aug 2000
                    • 10934

                    #10
                    The baffle width and the driver relationship must stay the same. You can raise/lower the drivers as a group.

                    IB subwoofer FAQ page


                    "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                    Comment

                    • wkhanna
                      Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                      • Jan 2006
                      • 5673

                      #11
                      Got it.
                      Thank you, Sir Thomas!
                      _


                      Bill

                      Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                      ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                      FinleyAudio

                      Comment

                      • jonathanb3478
                        Senior Member
                        • May 2006
                        • 440

                        #12
                        Originally posted by ThomasW
                        The baffle width and the driver relationship must stay the same. You can raise/lower the drivers as a group.

                        My understanding was that the distance from the tweeter to the top of the baffle was another spec that needed to be maintained. I thought this was because the frequencies affected by dispersion would change if this dimension was modified.

                        For this reason, I have raised the tweeter height by adding to the distance between the bottom woofer and the floor.
                        Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards.
                        -Vernon Sanders Law

                        Comment

                        • kano32
                          Member
                          • Feb 2006
                          • 56

                          #13
                          Howdy,

                          I also have a BT3100 and love it. You should check out this site mostly dedicated to the BT3: www.bt3central.com Check out the articles section, they have lots of jigs and mods for the BT3.

                          Good luck with the speakers. I have also built the Nat P's and love them.

                          Comment

                          • ThomasW
                            Moderator Emeritus
                            • Aug 2000
                            • 10934

                            #14
                            Originally posted by jonathanb3478
                            My understanding was that the distance from the tweeter to the top of the baffle was another spec that needed to be maintained.
                            It's good if that can be maintained, but it's not as important as maintaining the baffle width and the group spacing.

                            IB subwoofer FAQ page


                            "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                            Comment

                            • jonathanb3478
                              Senior Member
                              • May 2006
                              • 440

                              #15
                              Originally posted by ThomasW
                              It's good if that can be maintained, but it's not as important as maintaining the baffle width and the group spacing.
                              Good to know.



                              I also have a BT3100, which I picked up from a local HD in May for $220. It took them 45 minutes to locate the box and get it down for me. :M

                              I then drove the box home in the back seat of my '00 Mustang GT. :E

                              I followed the alignment procedure at www.bt3central.com, not the one in the manual. I have been very happy with the results I get from the saw. It is also easy to move from the garage to the backyard when I want to use it.

                              I still have not waxed the table surface, and I am really starting to see the benefit I would get from doing so. Also, I sawed into the black plastic end of the cross cut brace finally. It happened the last time I used the saw. The blade just made a little 1/8" nick, before I realized what was happening. Still, I was convinced I would never do that, even though everyone at bt3central says it is just a matter of time before everyone does it. "Not me", I said. :rofl:

                              I have the Chinese copy of the Italian blade it used to come with, but I will say it performs very well with the 3/4" MDF I use it on. Very much a "warm knife through butter" feeling. Leaves a good edge, too. I also get the same impression using my DeWalt DW625 on MDF with the bits I have so far.
                              Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards.
                              -Vernon Sanders Law

                              Comment

                              • wkhanna
                                Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                                • Jan 2006
                                • 5673

                                #16
                                jonathanb3478 & kano32 ,
                                Thanks for the link. Very informative.

                                I actually started my secondary education in industrial arts, but transferred to engr. after 1 ½ years. It has been a very long time since I have worked with wood, but it left memories as sweat as those associated with a first love. Not real sure the sent of MDF will rekindle much emotion though. I am leaning towards using a good quality ply at this point.

                                BTW, I had to unpack the saw from the box as the only way to get it into my '89 325is

                                I was considering this router
                                any opinions?
                                Last edited by wkhanna; 13 October 2006, 21:14 Friday.
                                _


                                Bill

                                Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                                ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                                FinleyAudio

                                Comment

                                • kano32
                                  Member
                                  • Feb 2006
                                  • 56

                                  #17
                                  The link didn't work. I have seen people recommend Porter Cable, Bosch, Hitachi, Ryobi etc, etc. I have a cheap Skil with both plunge and fixed bases. It's fairly accurate and was cheap. I am happy with it for the money.

                                  Comment

                                  • wkhanna
                                    Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                                    • Jan 2006
                                    • 5673

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by kano32
                                    The link didn't work.
                                    Oops!
                                    DeWalt #DW616PK

                                    Porter Cable #693LRPK
                                    _


                                    Bill

                                    Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                                    ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                                    FinleyAudio

                                    Comment

                                    • BigJim_inFLA
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Jun 2006
                                      • 203

                                      #19
                                      I use the Dewalt 616 router and I'll give you my impressions:

                                      The Good:

                                      It's light and easy to handle.
                                      Comes with fixed base and plunge base.
                                      Has worked well for me and I've used it quite a bit.
                                      Though it's not a high powered router it still makes nice cuts even with 3/4 inch roudover bits*.

                                      The Bad:

                                      Not the cheapest router out there, may be cheaper options that perform better (Hitachi M12V).
                                      Dust collection system does not work well at all, may as well not have it.
                                      You have to make many shallow cuts*.

                                      *Since this is a lower powered router, only 1-3/4HP, I make multiple shallow cuts when using the larger bits. This makes it easier on the router and less dangerous to the operator. A larger, heavier, more powerful router would be able to cut through more material. It just takes me a little longer to finish and that's OK with me.

                                      Comment

                                      • ThomasW
                                        Moderator Emeritus
                                        • Aug 2000
                                        • 10934

                                        #20
                                        Neither that DeWalt or the PC have good dust collection.

                                        Most people don't really need the dual base setup.

                                        Look at the DeWalt 621 if you want a smaller router with excellent dust collection. Or as mentioned the M12V if you want the monster with no dust collection.

                                        IB subwoofer FAQ page


                                        "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                                        Comment

                                        • wkhanna
                                          Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                                          • Jan 2006
                                          • 5673

                                          #21
                                          Thank you all for the feed back.

                                          I was out today putting my hands on lots of routers in the stores.
                                          Since this will be an indoor project ( I’m in the North East) I have decided to go with the DeWalt 621 due to the fact I will be building these in my 1 ½ car garage and will have few opportunities to work outside during the next few months, and the dust collection feature is significant.

                                          Now it’s time to get the final design dimensions calculated.
                                          _


                                          Bill

                                          Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                                          ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                                          FinleyAudio

                                          Comment

                                          • wildfire99
                                            Senior Member
                                            • Aug 2005
                                            • 257

                                            #22
                                            Using the PC 693 for a while, I did end up having a few instances where I needed the fixed base to make it all the way through a thick 1.5" baffle, with the router on top of another 3/4" piece as a template. The router goes deeper with the fixed base.

                                            The fixed base is also substantially safer/easier to use for large bits (such as 1/2"+ roundovers), since it's wider and more stable. However, I always manage to screw it up a little bit that way, and I want to get a router table/bench to use instead for cabinet edges. A last nice thing is you can leave a Jasper Jig attached to the plunge base, and screw on the fixed base if you want to quickly use something aside from a 1/4" spiral bit.

                                            The thing is built like a tank (God knows it must be the way I treat my tools), and has more power than I feel is safe to use on a hand-held model. Pretty accurate plunge depth once you figure out how to set the thing. Dust collection though, as Thomas points out, is basically non-existant. No worries though with goggles and a respirator, until cleanup time. On the other hand, they do have the air filtration/circulation systems for smaller rooms, like that cheap Delta that was everywhere a few years ago.
                                            - Patrick
                                            "But it's more fun when it doesn't make sense!"

                                            Comment

                                            • jonathanb3478
                                              Senior Member
                                              • May 2006
                                              • 440

                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by wkhanna
                                              I have decided to go with the DeWalt 621 due to the fact I will be building these in my 1 ½ car garage and will have few opportunities to work outside during the next few months, and the dust collection feature is significant.
                                              Good call!
                                              Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards.
                                              -Vernon Sanders Law

                                              Comment

                                              • wkhanna
                                                Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                                                • Jan 2006
                                                • 5673

                                                #24
                                                OK, This is where I ask for the ‘big’ favor.
                                                I just finished my calculations using WinISD for the very first time, and as normal male, I spent very little time reading the instruction.

                                                These were the parameters I used:

                                                Number of drivers : 2 RS180 woofers
                                                Box type : Vented
                                                Box size : 65.0 l
                                                Tuning frequency : 32.00 Hz
                                                Vent : 1 vent(s)
                                                0.174 m length for each
                                                0.082 m round

                                                Box dimensions:

                                                65 liter internal volume
                                                Outside dimensions based on 3/4 material
                                                9 (.229) x 41.5 (1.054) x 15.5 (.374)

                                                Tuned for 32 Hz looks good to me, but what would I know? I’ve never done this before!

                                                Edit: Two parameters I could not find for the RS180 woofers were BL (force factor B*L) and SD (effective piston area).
                                                32 Hz may be pushing it a little especially for a 7" driver. 35 Hz is much flatter from 100 Hz down. Maybe that would be more realistic, but I'm not sure at what Fq room effect comes in, either.

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                                                _


                                                Bill

                                                Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                                                ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                                                FinleyAudio

                                                Comment

                                                • wkhanna
                                                  Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                                                  • Jan 2006
                                                  • 5673

                                                  #25
                                                  I noticed that bmowis enclosed his tweeter. This is the first time I have seen this on a Nat P. I thought the RS28 tweeter was already considered enclosed, and did not need isolated in such a fashion. Is this the better way construct the cabinet?

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                                                  _


                                                  Bill

                                                  Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                                                  ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                                                  FinleyAudio

                                                  Comment

                                                  • derekbannatyne
                                                    Senior Member
                                                    • Jan 2006
                                                    • 196

                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by wkhanna
                                                    OK, This is where I ask for the ‘big’ favor.
                                                    I just finished my calculations using WinISD for the very first time, and as normal male, I spent very little time reading the instruction.

                                                    These were the parameters I used:

                                                    Number of drivers : 2 RS180 woofers
                                                    Box type : Vented
                                                    Box size : 65.0 l
                                                    Tuning frequency : 32.00 Hz
                                                    Vent : 1 vent(s)
                                                    0.174 m length for each
                                                    0.082 m round

                                                    Box dimensions:

                                                    65 liter internal volume
                                                    Outside dimensions based on 3/4 material
                                                    9 (.229) x 41.5 (1.054) x 15.5 (.374)

                                                    Tuned for 32 Hz looks good to me, but what would I know? I’ve never done this before!

                                                    Edit: Two parameters I could not find for the RS180 woofers were BL (force factor B*L) and SD (effective piston area).
                                                    32 Hz may be pushing it a little especially for a 7" driver. 35 Hz is much flatter from 100 Hz down. Maybe that would be more realistic, but I'm not sure at what Fq room effect comes in, either.
                                                    You'd be surprised how much bass the RS180s alone put out, I have Modula MTs with a single RS180 (tuned to 34hz) and they put out pretty satisfying bass on their own.

                                                    Comment

                                                    • wkhanna
                                                      Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                                                      • Jan 2006
                                                      • 5673

                                                      #27
                                                      My current ‘store bought’ are 2 way ported, yet very respectable in low end performance, but they are a little light and muddy down low. The reason I decided to go with the Nat P was for improved mid and low end performance in my first DIY project. I have upgraded my system for improved performance in 2ch music use, so your feedback reinforces my decision is a good place to start based on my expectations.

                                                      This place reminds me of an old time Hollywood movie studio, nothing but ‘Happy Endings’.
                                                      All thanks to our Dynamic Duo, of course!
                                                      _


                                                      Bill

                                                      Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                                                      ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                                                      FinleyAudio

                                                      Comment

                                                      • gimpy
                                                        Senior Member
                                                        • Sep 2004
                                                        • 119

                                                        #28
                                                        I read where you said that you were going to use ply (my next speakers will be made out of baltic birch ply). If so, the first thing that I would consider doing with your saw is, make a zero clearance throat plate for the blade. It might help keep the ply from splintering so much.

                                                        I made one out of 1/8 inch hardboard. It was easy to make and seems to fit right in (cheap, also).

                                                        Frank

                                                        Comment

                                                        • ThomasW
                                                          Moderator Emeritus
                                                          • Aug 2000
                                                          • 10934

                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by wkhanna
                                                          I noticed that bmowis enclosed his tweeter. This is the first time I have seen this on a Nat P. I thought the RS28 tweeter was already considered enclosed, and did not need isolated in such a fashion. Is this the better way construct the cabinet?
                                                          We routinely close off the backs of the tweeters. That way it's not necessary to have the tweeter airtight.

                                                          Is there a 'better' way? Probably not, but there maybe ways that are more visually appealing.

                                                          IB subwoofer FAQ page


                                                          "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                                                          Comment

                                                          • wkhanna
                                                            Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                                                            • Jan 2006
                                                            • 5673

                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by gimpy
                                                            I read where you said that you were going to use ply (my next speakers will be made out of baltic birch ply). If so, the first thing that I would consider doing with your saw is, make a zero clearance throat plate for the blade. It might help keep the ply from splintering so much.

                                                            I made one out of 1/8 inch hardboard. It was easy to make and seems to fit right in (cheap, also).

                                                            Frank
                                                            Thanks Frank.
                                                            I picked up the 'accessory kit' earlier this week, which included a Zero Clearance TP. I also have spent some time at the bt3central.com site, and liked the TP's that were made of polycarb.

                                                            I bought a small (2'x4') sheet of 3/4" BB and MDF to practice with over the weekend. Appreciate your tip, thanks buddy!
                                                            _


                                                            Bill

                                                            Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                                                            ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                                                            FinleyAudio

                                                            Comment

                                                            • wkhanna
                                                              Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                                                              • Jan 2006
                                                              • 5673

                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by ThomasW
                                                              Is there a 'better' way? Probably not, but there maybe ways that are more visually appealing.
                                                              Well then, since I plan on spending most of my time infront of them as opposed to in them, I will add the extra volume to my calculations.
                                                              Thank you, Sir Thomas.
                                                              _


                                                              Bill

                                                              Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                                                              ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                                                              FinleyAudio

                                                              Comment

                                                              • wkhanna
                                                                Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                                                                • Jan 2006
                                                                • 5673

                                                                #32
                                                                Started cuts on one cabinet today. I’m using birch ply, and it is cutting like butter. I took the time to put a coat of carnauba wax on the table, too. I have lots of angles in my design, and despite my best efforts aligning the fence, there are some slight mismatches to the panels. Nothing a flush trim won’t fix, though.

                                                                I discovered the best way to cut the side panels was to clamp both together and assure however the cut angles turn out, they will match. The side panels are angled at 5 deg back from bottom to top, and the top is sloped 10 deg down from back to front. I have calculated my tweeter position so that at 11 feet away with a 5 deg rise, it will be on axis to ear level at my listening position. In an attempt to minimize changing the baffle top/driver position from the original design, I added the 10 deg slope to the top of the cabinet profile.

                                                                I have the front baffle and back cut, too. I decided to cut panels for one cabinet only first, in order to test fit and verify my plans. So far, so good. And as you can see, I am trying hard to keep my bike as dust free as possible. I have a BIG fan hung on the back wall of the garage, and open the door when making cuts (it’s cold here today!). Overall, though, dust isn’t as bad as I had feared.

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                                                                _


                                                                Bill

                                                                Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                                                                ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                                                                FinleyAudio

                                                                Comment

                                                                • wkhanna
                                                                  Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                                                                  • Jan 2006
                                                                  • 5673

                                                                  #33
                                                                  More pics.

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                                                                  _


                                                                  Bill

                                                                  Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                                                                  ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                                                                  FinleyAudio

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • wkhanna
                                                                    Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                                                                    • Jan 2006
                                                                    • 5673

                                                                    #34
                                                                    Funny.... I think......
                                                                    most times everybody is quick to point out that the pics of their roughed out cabinets are distorted due to optical effects, and I am trying to show how crooked mine are?!?!

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                                                                    _


                                                                    Bill

                                                                    Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                                                                    ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                                                                    FinleyAudio

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • wkhanna
                                                                      Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                                                                      • Jan 2006
                                                                      • 5673

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Got some more done today....Made some minor adjustments. Overall, I am satisfied, and have my cut pattern finalized for the second box. I am glad I did a test run first, it gave me practice on my new saw and helped catch some errors in my plans. It has been a very long time since I have done anything like this, but I am having a ball.

                                                                      The wife, however, has taken to calling herself a “woodworker’s widow”!

                                                                      Next are the internal braces. I am considering a 3/16" rabbit on the interior panels for a total of 3 braces per cabinet.

                                                                      I have some MDF......Does anybody think it would work better for bracing? I am thinking it may be stronger and dimensionally more stable over the long term.

                                                                      After that, I will be using a solid piece of hard wood for a 2/3 high exterior baffle.

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                                                                      _


                                                                      Bill

                                                                      Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                                                                      ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                                                                      FinleyAudio

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • jdybnis
                                                                        Senior Member
                                                                        • Dec 2004
                                                                        • 399

                                                                        #36
                                                                        Negative on both of those. Plywood is stronger and more dimensionally stable than MDF. MDF sucks up and releases moisture. Plywood is prevented from changing size by the crisscrossing pattern of the layers.
                                                                        -Josh

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • dynamowhum
                                                                          Senior Member
                                                                          • Aug 2006
                                                                          • 260

                                                                          #37
                                                                          MDF can be used. Plywood would probably be optimal. If you were worried about humidity and mdf you could always seal the braces before installing. Cheers

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • wkhanna
                                                                            Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                                                                            • Jan 2006
                                                                            • 5673

                                                                            #38
                                                                            My thanks to both of you, gentlemen.
                                                                            I will use the ply for the braces.

                                                                            I found that the old trick of applying some masking tape to the ply along the cut line helps greatly when making cuts on the table saw.

                                                                            Can someone give advice on using a router with birch ply?
                                                                            Will an up-cut bit tend to splinter the birch veneer?
                                                                            Should I use a bit with angled flutes?
                                                                            _


                                                                            Bill

                                                                            Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                                                                            ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                                                                            FinleyAudio

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • Martyn
                                                                              Senior Member
                                                                              • Feb 2006
                                                                              • 380

                                                                              #39
                                                                              You can do the same for your router - either a zero-clearance fence for your router table if you have one, or a zero-clearance fence that attaches to the baseplate of your router. This is worth considering if either your router needs extra stability or you are experiencing blow-out.

                                                                              It should go without saying that there is no substitute for a sharp cutter. It's worth buying a diamond hone (it looks like a large nail-file) for touching up your router cutters. It won't work miracles, but it can help to keep an edge a little keener.

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • wkhanna
                                                                                Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                                                                                • Jan 2006
                                                                                • 5673

                                                                                #40
                                                                                Thanks Martyn, very good advise.

                                                                                I got my components yesterday. I bought them from Mazeroth as he has decided on a different project. Thanks very much Maz! Everything looks perfect, and the tweeters are matched!

                                                                                I still need to order a few things; 3" ports, terminals, etc.

                                                                                Should I get the 4% silver solder (saw it on the PE site) or is standard 40/60 OK?

                                                                                What is the best wire to use for XO construction?

                                                                                I assume a good quality speaker wire equal to what I run from my amp to my speakers is in order to run from the cabinet terminals to the XO, and from the XO to the speaker terminals?

                                                                                And a belated Happy Halloween to all........despite the rain, we were visited by 300+ goblins, ghouls, zombies and super heros.

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                                                                                _


                                                                                Bill

                                                                                Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                                                                                ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                                                                                FinleyAudio

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • wkhanna
                                                                                  Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                                                                                  • Jan 2006
                                                                                  • 5673

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  This is my potential layout for my XO; I am missing C11 (1.2 micro farad) and R4 (6 Ohm).
                                                                                  I will get these ordered form PE.
                                                                                  Does anyone see any problems with the orientation of the components?

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                                                                                  _


                                                                                  Bill

                                                                                  Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                                                                                  ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                                                                                  FinleyAudio

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • ThomasW
                                                                                    Moderator Emeritus
                                                                                    • Aug 2000
                                                                                    • 10934

                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    Overall layout and inductor orientation looks fine... :T

                                                                                    IB subwoofer FAQ page


                                                                                    "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • wkhanna
                                                                                      Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                                                                                      • Jan 2006
                                                                                      • 5673

                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      Well, I have had few interruptions in my build like having a kid run a SS and total my car and subsequent latent injuries among others. But I finally have 95% of the parts excluding the stuffing and some hardware. I am heading over Harbor Freight tomorrow to buy some (lots) of clamps.

                                                                                      I have nearly finished the first x-over. I got some scrap wire from work that we use in making the ‘third rail’ conductor for mass-transit/subway cars. It is high purity Cu with Ag coating, and as you can see, is made to handle copious amounts of current. I’m using strands of it for hook-up wire.

                                                                                      I also went with the DeWalt DW621 router, found a factory refurbished unit for a good price. I still need to order my bits, but did get the smaller Jasper Jig from PE on sale. Remember to use the link at HT Forum for your PE orders!

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                                                                                      _


                                                                                      Bill

                                                                                      Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                                                                                      ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                                                                                      FinleyAudio

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • Ecir38
                                                                                        Senior Member
                                                                                        • Oct 2006
                                                                                        • 130

                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        wkhanna, looks awesome. I am sure you are going to love them, i just finished mine yesterday .
                                                                                        BR

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • wkhanna
                                                                                          Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                                                                                          • Jan 2006
                                                                                          • 5673

                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          Thanks BR!
                                                                                          BTW, I used a pic of your xo layout for a guide when constructing mine. V nice work!
                                                                                          I ‘ll be V interested in hearing your thoughts on how your new speakers sound and seeing some pics.
                                                                                          Last edited by wkhanna; 27 January 2007, 23:49 Saturday.
                                                                                          _


                                                                                          Bill

                                                                                          Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                                                                                          ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                                                                                          FinleyAudio

                                                                                          Comment

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