Ardent build

[flamethrower1]

Not yet, probably start later this week or next weekend.
I have a couple of other things that have to be taken care of first.

[Renron]

The construction of the MR caps fights this, with a strong polycarbonate case, but so do the Jantzen superior Z with their metal cases.

I've rebuilt teflon caps with a thin aluminum shell by dissecting them and reinstalling into a stiff stainless steel case, encapsulated inside with hot melt glue to dampen pulsed ringing. IMO they have less "Bite", smoother.
Ron

Flamethrower 1,
Please provide pictures of your build, we like pictures...............

[flamethrower1]

Just wondering if someone could provide a link for the laminated bamboo, cant seem to find any locally.

Thanks, Greg

[Horio]

Flame, what part of the country are you located in? I'm pretty lucky as I can buy 4'x8' sheets in Seattle for $175/sheet from a local lumber yard.

If you can't find it locally, Woodworkers Source is a good online retailer which many of us have used. I did a quick search for bamboo, and it looks like they have it on sale for $40 for 48" x 12" planks.

[flamethrower1]

I am in Wisconsin, I have one more possible supplier to check out.
Wish i could find a deal like that.
Thanks for the link though, looks like that may be a good option.

Thanks, Greg

[JonMarsh]

Also, would like to clarify that this is the correct part # for the midrange Accuton C90-6-079 5", dont need any oh shits at this price

Yes, it most certainly is....

[flamethrower1]

A little update, all drivers are ordered with the mids and tweeters from Madisound.
Next up, crossover components, not quite sure which way I am going to go as far as brands yet.
I was just wondering what you guys used for "feet" or " slides" for the bottom of the cabinets.
I am going to be running these on hardwood floors.
Anyway, any input would be appreciated.

Thanks, Greg

[dar47]

I put my cross overs on 3 boards with the base section on top the the bottom base and the mid and tweet sections inside. For feet I used those round light blue floor glides under mine. The speaks sit on vinyl flooring just in front of an area rug and would work on hardwood. They are nice if I want to move the speaks.

[TEK]

I use these under them:



I would take some care planning the crossover, placement and how to fasten them.
Remember to think about the woofer magnets - you do not want them to close to the crossover.

[flamethrower1]

Received my Accutons today, nice gear!
Will have to go to the bank tomorrow and get a home equity loan to fund the rest.
Oh well, one small hurdle at a time

[JonMarsh]

Yeah, it's either that or ransack your 401K! :W

[flamethrower1]

Thanks Jon, forgot that option

[Renron]

I'm going the, sell a kidney route. I don't drink alcohol anymore anyway, what do I need 2 for? Seems redundant.
Ron

[JonMarsh]

I'm going the, sell a kidney route. I don't drink alcohol anymore anyway, what do I need 2 for? Seems redundant.
Ron

Redundancy is good, though. Think of how many people might still be around if they had a backup heart... now, if I only had a backup brain! :W

[flamethrower1]

I was organizing my paperwork and noticed that I could not find a dimension for the mid compartment back wall placement, anyone got a measurement for that?

[BobEllis]

I don't remember exactly, but it can only go one place if you have the bottom attached to the baffle in the right place.

[TEK]

I was sure I had seen this question before (or asked it myself).
After some searching I found it.

I think you will find the answare in this post:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?41409-Wavecor-Ardent-Journal-the-first-Builds&p=600169&viewfull=1#post600169

[flamethrower1]

I was sure I had seen this question before (or asked it myself).
After some searching I found it.

I think you will find the answare in this post:
http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...l=1#post600169

Thank you, I looked for that for almost an hour.
Now that I see how it wedges in from the top, I also understand what Bobellis was trying to convey in his response

Appreciated, Thanks, Greg

[Steve Manning]

Redundancy is good, though. Think of how many people might still be around if they had a backup heart... now, if I only had a backup brain! :W

You would just argue with yourself more than you do now I'm betting :B

[JonMarsh]

You would just argue with yourself more than you do now I'm betting :B

Yeah, and I'd probably lose more often, too!

[dar47]

What? 2 hearts, 2 heads you are already blessed with too much just stop it already, haha

[Renron]

You would just argue with yourself more than you do now I'm betting :B

Thanks Steve, morning coffee out the nose!
Too funny

[Steve Manning]

Thanks Steve, morning coffee out the nose!
Too funny

Your quite welcome Ron ....better than Sudafed for clearing the sinuses isn't it? :B

[flamethrower1]

I know I saw a post somewhere from someone who had ordered the caps from Audiohobbyeu.
Found this while doing a search for Jantzen caps

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-pair-2pcs-of-Jantzen-Superior-Z-Cap-MKP-Capacitors-2-800-1200V-all-values-/161113382387?var=&hash=item25831b1df3

Hmm, dont know what to think, good prices though

[JonMarsh]

About a 15% discount. 10uf is $51 from US each; a pair from them are ~ $85. If there aren't any duties or anything, the shipping shouldn't be bad. Worth considering, especially for a larger order.

[BobEllis]

A pair of 10 µF from audiohobby.eu is $67 with free shipping compared to $92 including shipping from the ebay seller.

[JonMarsh]

That's a big difference!

[BobEllis]

Not sure what the threshold for free shipping, if any. I have an Ardent's worth of caps and M-Resist Supreme in the basket waiting on the reviseed XO and it's free shipping. My no hurry vendor of choice. Thanks, Renron for finding them.

[sdl2112]

A big +1 on that. :T I may not feel guilty using all parallel superior Z caps in my mid-range circuit now. I will have to see how the revised cost works out.

[flamethrower1]

A big +1 on that. :T I may not feel guilty using all parallel superior Z caps in my mid-range circuit now. I will have to see how the revised cost works out.

What individual resistor values did you end up using to achieve the overall specified value.
Would it be real bad if you were of maybe 1uF any of the parallel circuits?
Just wondering as I was looking into doing the same thing.

[Renron]

I too am in a holding pattern, waiting on funds mostly. Trying (unsuccessfully atm) to convince the wife unit to let me spend the $$$ on an audio hobbie order. Bifilar resistors included. Jon. ;D
What a wonderful group of people on this Forum.
Steve's funny.........
Ron

[sdl2112]

What individual resistor values did you end up using to achieve the overall specified value.
Would it be real bad if you were of maybe 1uF any of the parallel circuits?
Just wondering as I was looking into doing the same thing.

I have a long ways to go before I finalize my x-over but my large mid-range cap right now is estimated to be 90uf. What ever value it turns out to be I would use the largest value that is divisible, i.e. 6x15uf or maybe 5x22uf. Paralleling with small values is up for debate.

[JonMarsh]

What individual resistor values did you end up using to achieve the overall specified value.
Would it be real bad if you were of maybe 1uF any of the parallel circuits?
Just wondering as I was looking into doing the same thing.

General advice:

Stay as low as you can on the inductor DCR - if 0.3 ohm is specified, you can get by with 0.4, but don't use 1.4. For capacitance values, think hitting within 3 percent. Note, caps are almost NEVER high in value on their tolerance. they're almost always right on or a bit low.

Spend your money if you can first on the tweeter series cap, next on the midrange series cap.

[Steve Manning]

General advice: Spend your money if you can first on the tweeter series cap, next on the midrange series cap.

Jon you might be able to comment on this idea ....... This is something I did for my Jensen build ...... I used Obbligato caps for the mid-range, saved me ~$700 as I recall over the superior Z caps which needed 110 uF per side. This was suggested by Troels and the reviews I read from Tony Gee with his reviews on those caps. Stayed with the superior Z caps for the tweeter. I have not done a comparison between the two, so I don't know what differences one might hear. Not sure if any one else has used the Obbligatos on here?

[JonMarsh]

Jon you might be able to comment on this idea ....... This is something I did for my Jensen build ...... I used Obbligato caps for the mid-range, saved me ~$700 as I recall over the superior Z caps which needed 110 uF per side. This was suggested by Troels and the reviews I read from Tony Gee with his reviews on those caps. Stayed with the superior Z caps for the tweeter. I have not done a comparison between the two, so I don't know what differences one might hear. Not sure if any one else has used the Obbligatos on here?

I'd never heard of them until your post today, but I can tell it's been a while since I've been on Tony's site, though I have found in the past I pretty much agree with his assessments- OTOH, for a lot of DIY'ers, the whole cap sound thing is just a bridge too far. Unfortunately, beleiving that doesn't make it so...

the best news out of checking his site and going back to my Canadian supplier, Parts Connexion, is that they have the new Duelund RS speaker caps- half the price of their old top of the line series, and nearly all the goodness! Who's up for $132 for 2.2uF caps for their Minerva's? Sounds weird, until you think of the fact that this is a $500 midrange-tweeter driver.

Now, where does this leave me for the Osiris update?

BTW, where did you get the Obligattos?

[flamethrower1]

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

I dont know if this is something new or not, just throwing it out there

[Steve Manning]

I'd never heard of them until your post today, but I can tell it's been a while since I've been on Tony's site, though I have found in the past I pretty much agree with his assessments- OTOH, for a lot of DIY'ers, the whole cap sound thing is just a bridge too far. Unfortunately, beleiving that doesn't make it so...

the best news out of checking his site and going back to my Canadian supplier, Parts Connexion, is that they have the new Duelund RS speaker caps- half the price of their old top of the line series, and nearly all the goodness! Who's up for $132 for 2.2uF caps for their Minerva's? Sounds weird, until you think of the fact that this is a $500 midrange-tweeter driver.

Now, where does this leave me for the Osiris update?

BTW, where did you get the Obligattos?

Here you go this is what I used ...... http://www.partsconnexion.com/capaci...igato_oil.html ...... They have a few different flavors http://www.partsconnexion.com/capaci..._obb_main.html

[Steve Manning]

Just for a size reference this is from the Jensen post ....... http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...ht=jensen+1071

[JonMarsh]

Just for a size reference this is from the Jensen post ....... https://www.htguide.com/forum/showth...ht=jensen+1071

Yeah, some of those ultra compact film and oil capacitors! We considered those for the next Macbook... Nahhhh!

[JonMarsh]

Just for a size reference this is from the Jensen post ....... http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...ht=jensen+1071

That's Tony Gee's site. There are a lot of folks in DIY who don't think caps really have any influence on the sound, so I don't bring that up around here very often. (BTW, I'm not one of those folks...)

[JonMarsh]

Just for a size reference this is from the Jensen post ....... https://www.htguide.com/forum/showth...ht=jensen+1071

Were those the 47uF or the 68uF?

BTW, I think the ones Tony was really fond of were the film caps - though he did give the film and oil a "9".

https://www.partsconnexion.com/OBLIG-74464.html

I buy from Parts Connexion fairly frequently, will have to give those a look over. They are about 50% more. But they don't look like something stolen off a utility pole...

(BTW, I worked for Dallas Power and Light for a while, in my misspent youth...)

[Steve Manning]

The ones I used were the 22 uF - OBLIG-74480. Looks like they have gone up a few bucks since I got them and even if you went with the Gold version, that's about a third of what a z-cap will run you. Don't know if it's worth looking at or not ..... money wise, I'd say yes, sound wise ........

[JonMarsh]

Well, something rated a 10 or 10- is definitely better than a 6! It really comes down to figuring out the values and what not- might be a solid backup recommendation, too. Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

[Steve Manning]

Well, something rated a 10 or 10- is definitely better than a 6! It really comes down to figuring out the values and what not- might be a solid backup recommendation, too. Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

Your welcome ..... might be worth picking up a few for evaluation next time you order from them?

[Renron]

Obbligato Mr. Roboto

Ta Ta Ta Dum!
I present to you my opinion on caps. Like it or not. Ha!
I think caps make a large difference on the sound what that is coming out of your speakers. (voice of Chris Tucker from Rush Hour Movie)
I said it, flame away if you wish, Asbestos underwear donned !
I am frugal, some would say cheap. It's not being cheap it's being responsible with my limited funds. So, when I can (safely) spend less and achieve 95% of the quality, I will.
I've always got a lot of projects in the back of my mind I want to build, next is an outfeed table saw extension.
Back to caps. I've used Obbligatos for a LOOOOONG time, back when no one heard of them and the only place to buy them was Hong Kong.
My take on the ones I've used;
The Gold ones, film and foil are excellent, a tad rolled off on the top but it keeps the shouty ear bite on poor recordings to almost zero. Great for voices and wooden instruments. Pianos are not excellent, but sound good, the note "Hang time" is less robust. Overall they are 8+ out of 10. Value wise easy 9 out of 10.
Note here, a 10 would be the ClarityCap MR.
The copper ones are the next best, not as quick or as clear and true to the tonal resonance of violins or female voices. Their Meh, just OK. 7- out of 10
Big jumbo soda can size black oil capacitors are for Large size capacitance and should only be used in woofer circuits. For the uF per $$$ you can't beat them.
They sound lifeless and flat for mids and treble, for woofers they perform well and a cello sounds like a cello, base drums sound full. You can buy better caps, but the price is good and they sound fine.

I really like the old Russian caps, some of them sound excellent and can be made to sound even better. But that is another story.

Good review thread here; anything with Orgy in the name makes it better.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/284863/orgy-of-capacitors-the-cap-thread

Good prices on Obbligatos; I've ordered from them before, but it is a slow boat...........

http://www.store.diyhifisupply.com/capacitors

Jon,
If you want to test a pair of Russian caps in 10uF, I'll send you a pair. I'd like to hear your opinion on them. There obviously not Teflons at that capacitance.
Ron