Wavecor Ardent Mid Priced Build

[BobEllis]

I was off visiting my Dad for part of it, but i let mine harden 3 weeks before in accordance with GF directions. That was a long time.

[Evil Twin]

That is one of the most difficult but necessary parts of this stage of a build- watching paint or finish dry... and cure... and harden.

Exceptionally attractive results, Ron- truly the Force is strong with you.

[TEK]

Holy shit!
;x(

[benthe8track]

Holy shit!
;x(

x2

Excited to see them polished!

[Renron]

Tek,
I thought of you when I watched the move "Dead Snow". Ah, the land of Norway. Nazi zombies and college students, What could go wrong? Later that night I watched "Dead snow II". With the American "Zombie Squad" as helpers. The second one was funny, and gross.
Sometimes you just gotta "let go". Wife was out of town so I owned the remote. Yeah............
Ron

[TEK]

Jup - that is Norway... Excactly lile that :-)

[Renron]

Oops!

Sometimes....................
Well back to the sander. at least the grain has been filled. :T
Just a few runs and "Curtains" to fix. Pretty good gloss thou.
This was the 1st time I tried to spray this product, I guess I need a lighter touch next time.
Just sharing mistakes with the Forum members.
Ron

[BobEllis]

So we have a new tradition - in progress shots with outdoor scenery reflecting in the finish. Still looking forward to our socks in front of the speakers shots.

[Steve Manning]

Sometimes....................
Well back to the sander. at least the grain has been filled. :T
Just a few runs and "Curtains" to fix. Pretty good gloss thou.
This was the 1st time I tried to spray this product, I guess I need a lighter touch next time.
Just sharing mistakes with the Forum members.
Ron

Crap that's some gorgeous looking wood ...... You need to get serious though and set up a spray system like this. Spraying starts around 5:50 in. Looking killer though Ron ..... we're going to have to grade you and Bob on who's got the best reflected scenery.

[JonMarsh]

What do we do if we don't have good outdoor scenery? This sets a pretty high bar for us woodworking challenged types that are more comfortable with wires and sparks... :B

[sdl2112]

I'm really enjoying seeing the progress everyone is making with their finishes...hiccups and all. :T It's also neat to see the different products and techniques.

This is great motivation for my build as I hope to wipe on my first coat of varnish this weekend. Unfortunately there won't be an outdoor scenic background as I plan to apply it indoors. The high temperature, humidity and the daily variations proved detrimental to my test pieces so indoors it is...just hope the fumes don't run me out of the house. 8O

[BobEllis]

I once finished a piece with nitrocellulose lacquer in the garage with the door closed. The smell was infused into our Christmas cookies baked the same day. Days later they still tasted of lacquer and I started over.

I know it's hot in Austin, but get lots of fresh air into your finishing area and try to block it off from the rest of the living space. If you can't get cross ventilation, then a fan blowing out will get air moving the right direction to not make clothes smell like wiping rags.

[Steve Manning]

I once finished a piece with nitrocellulose lacquer in the garage with the door closed. The smell was infused into our Christmas cookies baked the same day. Days later they still tasted of lacquer and I started over.

I know it's hot in Austin, but get lots of fresh air into your finishing area and try to block it off from the rest of the living space. If you can't get cross ventilation, then a fan blowing out will get air moving the right direction to not make clothes smell like wiping rags.

Too bad you couldn't get it the other way Bob ...... speakers that smell like Christmas cookies could be a big seller!

[sdl2112]

I once finished a piece with nitrocellulose lacquer in the garage with the door closed. The smell was infused into our Christmas cookies baked the same day. Days later they still tasted of lacquer and I started over.

I know it's hot in Austin, but get lots of fresh air into your finishing area and try to block it off from the rest of the living space. If you can't get cross ventilation, then a fan blowing out will get air moving the right direction to not make clothes smell like wiping rags.

Hmmm...you have me worried a little now. I tried a few test pieces indoors and it wasn't bad at all but full sized speakers is another story. The thing is if I wait till October it will likely be nice in the garage...but I'm getting impatient. I'll probably wipe it on then use an exhaust fan to draw the fumes out...we'll see. Thanks for the input Bob.

Hey Bob...As I was writing this I just came up with a slightly new plan...but you will have to wait to see an update in my thread ...thanks very much for the inspiration. :T

[Renron]

Steve,
Thanks for that link to the Ferrari plant, That windshield installation robot was a thing of beauty in itself! Q; Who the hell would paint a Ferrari Lime Green??
When I was being trained as a paint spray technician , we were told to think and move like we WERE robots. Ha!
Bob wins the scenery hands down, no competition from me, maybe Tek.

nitrocellulose lacquer is know for headaches and KaBooms, careful with that stuff.

Here's a photo of the type of ventilation we used to use, although ours was a Diy effort and not as pretty.

I'm on coat #9, spraying today while it's still cool, 78*F. Nice.....
Ron

[Steve Manning]

Steve,
Thanks for that link to the Ferrari plant, That windshield installation robot was a thing of beauty in itself! Q; Who the hell would paint a Ferrari Lime Green??
When I was being trained as a paint spray technician , we were told to think and move like we WERE robots. Ha!
Bob wins the scenery hands down, no competition from me, maybe Tek.

nitrocellulose lacquer is know for headaches and KaBooms, careful with that stuff.

Here's a photo of the type of ventilation we used to use, although ours was a Diy effort and not as pretty.

I'm on coat #9, spraying today while it's still cool, 78*F. Nice.....
Ron

Your so right about the green for the Ferrari Ron ...... that's a Lamborghini color. Saw one of these locally a couple of months ago .....



Since I discovered water borne finishes I'm loving the essentially no odor aspect of them. I'm curious to see how ET's finish turns out since he is going the water route.

So is that 9 coats of spray, or 9 coats in total?

[Renron]

Pardon me, but can I get that Lamborghini in electric pistachio? Brrrr. Not my cup of tea.

9 in total, 7 rolled and tipped with a brush then sanded back to flat again to fill grain pores with varnish for the DEEP look I wanted.
I tried the "Tack coat" method of spraying like I would do on an automobile clear coat. Light coat, wait until it flashes then hit it again with a heavier coat of spray. Well, that didn't work. I ended up with what looked like dry overspray. Varnish is particular stuff. No wonder the "Pros" get paid $$$ for shipwright work.
I'll knock off the high orange peel / dry spots and try again tomorrow. Beauty of adding drier / accelerator is I can sand the next morning if I don't have big runs. Tomorrow, I'll try a mid heavy coat from further back. I had been spraying ~6" away from speaker veneer. Air pressure seems to be causing some orange peel so I'll move back to ~10". Try again.
Ron

[BobEllis]

That trial and error is one of the reasons I brushed. Without a number of test pieces to practice on I was afraid I'd sand through more veneer fixing runs and orange peel. At least you're getting closer to the goal line, Ron.

[Renron]

Bob,
You're so right, trial and error is sometimes not such a good idea. I'm only sanding the finish at this point.
I intentionally used this Varnish because of the end finished "Look". Dark Amber and DEEP look. I know how to spray most other finishes, water based and oil based, base coat and clear coat. This is my first time spraying varnish (only for the final coats). It's a personal challenge and learning experience.
Ron

[JonMarsh]

I'm finishing challenged...

Bob,
You're so right, trial and error is sometimes not such a good idea. I'm only sanding the finish at this point.
I intentionally used this Varnish because of the end finished "Look". Dark Amber and DEEP look. I know how to spray most other finishes, water based and oil based, base coat and clear coat. This is my first time spraying varnish (only for the final coats). It's a personal challenge and learning experience.
Ron

I bet you're more than up to the challenge Ron; OTOH, I would be called "finishing challenged" becuase it's not politically correct to call anyone handicapped anymore...

[Renron]

Thanks for the vote of confidence Doc.
We're taking one of the Grand-kids kayaking today, maybe tomorrow I'll work on the speakers.
Ron

[Evil Twin]

Your so right about the green for the Ferrari Ron ...... that's a Lamborghini color. Saw one of these locally a couple of months ago .....

[ATTACH=CONFIG]26377[/ATTACH]

Since I discovered water borne finishes I'm loving the essentially no odor aspect of them. I'm curious to see how ET's finish turns out since he is going the water route.

So is that 9 coats of spray, or 9 coats in total?

In a word, Fish eyes on the first cabinet. And that was after three cleaning passes and exhibiting high levels of OCD behavior in preparation.

Second cabinet was tested with a conventional solvent based acrylic lacquer clear coat. no issues at all. Some careful review of forums indicates that this is a fairly common issue with waterborne clear coat on base layers. In this case, the acrylic lacquer base layer is from the same vendor as the clear coat and there is not supposed to be any compatibility issue. Once, dried, apart from the fish eyes, the finish is quite hard and durable. I am quite certain it will be an interesting and challenging process to attempt to sand off the waterborne clear coat without removing the black base layer....

[Renron]

Oh Dark one.
You have discovered one of the pitfalls of Waterborne products. They can be finicky. If you don't use the proper tack cloth it can cause fisheyes. I like the Crystal or 3M brand of tack cloths. It does make a difference. Never wipe down the raw wood with solvents or even Denatured Alcohol, only water.
Even the wrong type of sandpaper can cause fisheyes. I've never had that problem with sandpaper but I know it can happen.

Just figure on re spraying the Base coat. One little scratch will show up big time, especially on Black.

At the risk of a force choke hold, are you sure they are indeed fisheyes and not micro bubbles? Water borne products tend to skin very fast and then trap water underneath who's vapor can cause pin pops. Shaking and even stirring Water borne too fast can cause micro bubbles, I would let it sit in the gun for at least 10 minutes to "slake" before spraying. Using a "Little" General Finishes Extender really helps flow out.
Also, did you spray or brush? If sprayed, did you use the gun with an oil base previously? Do you have a water trap at the gun? What was the temperature? >70* F is right, below that or high humidity can cause troubles also.
Water Bornes are great and I love the way they clean up, but it's a whole different process than oil base. So are Varnishes I'm finding out.

Too much info about Tack Cloths:http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...hs-(tack-rags)

Red photo is Fish Eyes, the other is Solvent Pop , water can be a solvent.
Ron

[Evil Twin]

Definitely fish eyes. I have never seen this before, but research on the web proved it out, as does your photo examples. Not nearly as high a density of fish eyes as your example, only one every few inches.

Finish was sprayed; last process was the water based acrylic lacquer from the same manufacturer, after cleaning I ran a half quart of water through the gun.

The gun is a Fuji HVLP; no water trap normally used. Humidity is very low here, and temperature was about 75F.

Only water was used for cleaning cleaning the cabinet surface after the fine sand of the base layer.

Yes, it would have been very emotionally satisfying to have a Captain Needa at hand to punish for these results... unfortunately, there was no one else to blame.

[Renron]

As postulated, your systematic processes are appropriate for the conditions known.
Having eliminated most of the know causes of Sabotage by the Rebels, may I humbly suggest a water trap at the base of the "Blaster"? The clear ones show how much vapor accumulates, I'm always shocked. I purge it several times during a spraying session.
Also, a NEW hose between compressor and the royal "Blaster" could eliminate another possible source of Rebel troublemakers.
With these things in place, the supply air could be eliminated as a Rebel culprit saboteur.
I apologize, I don't think they come in black...
By your leave,
Ron

[Steve Manning]

As postulated, your systematic processes are appropriate for the conditions known.
Having eliminated most of the know causes of Sabotage by the Rebels, may I humbly suggest a water trap at the base of the "Blaster"? The clear ones show how much vapor accumulates, I'm always shocked. I purge it several times during a spraying session.
Also, a NEW hose between compressor and the royal "Blaster" could eliminate another possible source of Rebel troublemakers.
With these things in place, the supply air could be eliminated as a Rebel culprit saboteur.
I apologize, I don't think they come in black...
By your leave,
Ron

You need you of these with a turbine?

[jwanck11]

Odd - I have not used a separator with my turbine (Fuji) and achieve mirror results.

Are you certain you are using the right tip?
Are you too close or far from the work?
Are you moving too quickly?
Is your mixture correct?

Test sprays take time and use product, but are critical to get exactly what you want in a finish. A spray done correctly will eclipse what is possible from any other means.

[Evil Twin]

As postulated, your systematic processes are appropriate for the conditions known.
Having eliminated most of the know causes of Sabotage by the Rebels, may I humbly suggest a water trap at the base of the "Blaster"? The clear ones show how much vapor accumulates, I'm always shocked. I purge it several times during a spraying session.
Also, a NEW hose between compressor and the royal "Blaster" could eliminate another possible source of Rebel troublemakers.
With these things in place, the supply air could be eliminated as a Rebel culprit saboteur.
I apologize, I don't think they come in black...
By your leave,
Ron

All very interesting and appropriate suggestions...

On the other hand, I have used GF water based finishes the same way without problems.

And in the same application, on the second cabinet, prepped in parallel with the same techniques as the first, the alternative "nasty" solvent clear coat works perfectly.

Given that I am not really particularly interested in developing my painting skills at this time, but getting a solution that works for this one project, and given that I'll have to strip that cabinet regardless of what I do, it's apparent the Dark Side will win once more....

[Renron]

Steve, with a turbine? No, only with an air compressor. Sorry my bad, only applies to LvLp / HvLp / conversion guns supplied with compressor air.
I started spraying with a turbine, well over 200 gallons of paint. Problems with turbines is that they heat the air. Heating the air can cause the atomized finish droplets to skin before they splat onto the work surface. It's a Big deal if it's with waterborne which dries fast anyway.

Jwanck11, none of those would cause fisheyes, however, they all will effect the quality of finish. (no disrespect intended)

Dark Lord, Sometimes you just never know why. Dark Forces of the Empire will prevail no doubt.
Ron

[Evil Twin]

Problems with turbines is that they heat the air. Heating the air can cause the atomized finish droplets to skin before they splat onto the work surface. It's a Big deal if it's with waterborne which dries fast anyway.

this is quite true and requires particular care if working outdoors in the summer.

[Steve Manning]

Steve, with a turbine? No, only with an air compressor. Sorry my bad, only applies to LvLp / HvLp / conversion guns supplied with compressor air.
I started spraying with a turbine, well over 200 gallons of paint. Problems with turbines is that they heat the air. Heating the air can cause the atomized finish droplets to skin before they splat onto the work surface. It's a Big deal if it's with waterborne which dries fast anyway.

Jwanck11, none of those would cause fisheyes, however, they all will effect the quality of finish. (no disrespect intended)

Dark Lord, Sometimes you just never know why. Dark Forces of the Empire will prevail no doubt.
Ron

Hey Ron, I did'nt think so ...... though I'm definitely not an expert with finishing/spraying. As I recall, GF states not to use tack cloth with their water bourne stuff, as well as steel wool, I believe. I know Fuji has a hose extension that is supposed to help reduce the air temp coming out of the turbine. Would the use of an extender help in this situation?

[Renron]

Steve, Not really sure if your pulling my leg or not. But in case you aren't.
The addition of a small hose is called a 'Whip" hose. It's more flexible than the long supply hose so its easier to wrap around your neck and under your arm while spraying. We also put high volume quick connect / disconnect at the intersection of the two hoses as well as a el cheapo ball valve to adjust the air flow. Sometimes depending upon the circumstances we needed to adjust both the air and liquid flow. Double lenght of hose helps cool it down too.
Never use steel wood products with any water borne finish. The steel wool fibers break off and embed themselves in the wood grain, when exposed to the water borne finishes the bits rust. Purple and white scotchbrite pads are the ones to use with water borne finishes.

I refinished antique / cast Iron bathtubs and formica countertops for 10+ years. We used the same paint as the space shuttle uses. Yeah, it's expensive, but tough as hell. LOL Shiny too.
Ron

[Steve Manning]

Steve, Not really sure if your pulling my leg or not. But in case you aren't.
The addition of a small hose is called a 'Whip" hose. It's more flexible than the long supply hose so its easier to wrap around your neck and under your arm while spraying. We also put high volume quick connect / disconnect at the intersection of the two hoses as well as a el cheapo ball valve to adjust the air flow. Sometimes depending upon the circumstances we needed to adjust both the air and liquid flow. Double lenght of hose helps cool it down too.

I refinished antique / cast Iron bathtubs and formica countertops for 10+ years. We used the same paint as the space shuttle uses. Yeah, it's expensive, but tough as hell. LOL Shiny too.
Ron

Me pull your leg in this case no ....... Here is the blurb from Fuji's site:

Flexible Whip Hose #2049F

Fuji Flexible Whip Hose

Lightweight 6ft. Hose is highly flexible. Couplings are made from a Glass Fiber-Reinforced Polymer. Takes weight off the wrist and the flexibility allows for effortless maneuverability of the spray gun. An added feature is that the air through the spray gun is not as hot (due to the fact the spray gun is now 6ft further from the Turbine). This often alleviates problems with fast drying lacquers (and Latex House Paint) drying too quickly. This Whip Hose features a smooth internal bore. Please note* this hose cannot be connected to the Turbine – it is an extension hose and must only be connected to the end of the standard 25ft Hose.

I guess the fact that it's smooth bore helps in reducing the heat? I assume the normal hose is corrugated on the inside leading to turbulence and heating? The Dark Lord would be able to answer that, though I'm certainly not to going ask him about his hose.

[Renron]

Me pull your leg in this case no ....... Here is the blurb from Fuji's site:
An added feature is that the air through the spray gun is not as hot (due to the fact the spray gun is now 6ft further from the Turbine). This often alleviates problems with fast drying lacquers (and Latex House Paint) drying too quickly. [/I]

I guess the fact that it's smooth bore helps in reducing the heat? I assume the normal hose is corrugated on the inside leading to turbulence and heating? The Dark Lord would be able to answer that, though I'm certainly not to going ask him about his hose.

Wishful thinking and Marketing Mumbo-Jumbo on Fuji's part I'm afraid. Six extra feet won't do diddly squat to eliminate any heat.
The heat is generated by the turbine blade(s) themselves whipping the air into a frenzy. Multi stage turbines (better) have more impellers / blades.
The long hose is smooth bore also. At times we ran the hose through a large bucket of water to cool the air down. Not recommended nor normal practice, too many ways things can go wrong.

Interesting photo of my F250 Impeller, I rebuilt the turbocharger and replaced the blade with an upgraded one for the "Pork Chop Express". The impeller on my spray turbine is MUCH smaller.
Ron

[Renron]

On a different subject;
What are the views / opinions of a "Burn in" disc for our speakers? This one is downloaded from Tara Labs.
Has anyone used one?

http://www.taralabs.com/cascade-noise-burn-in

Ron

[BobEllis]

I've been "burning in" using a wide variety of music. A few repeated songs, I'm not sure there was any change after the first bass heavy run through. Stanley Clarke sounds amazing on my Ardents. Keith Emerson's left hand on "Still, You Turn Me On" got a "What was that?" out of a buddy. Music you'd been missing, Andy.

[Renron]

"Music you'd been missing, Andy. "
Too funny, and I'm sure it's true too. I am close to calling it quits on trying to do any better with the Varnish. I want to hear them sing! Anxious to hear them. This is the hard part (waiting) of the build. Very happy to hear you are so happy with your work. I'm sure Andy was impressed.
Bob, are you using USB cable or digital opt. / coax? If USB, have you tried different ones? I know you JUST got up and running, but I'm looking to build some DIY USB cables while i'm watching Varnish dry. Interested in the dual split power / data type.
Ron

[JonMarsh]

Music with a wide variety of signals and levels is good; Ayre Acoustic has something that also works well for this, I've had this disk for years...

https://www.ayre.com/acc_cd.htm

BTW, they're selling solo piano recordings that are great playing and quality by Katie Mahan. Recommended if you like classical piano music.

[BobEllis]

I wonder if the bass on that song was mixed hot to compensate for the lack of bottom end on the speakers of the day.

I'm using coax SPDIF built into the motherboard for now. I don't have a USB cable of appropriate length here.

Might be fun to make a USB cable, but not sure it would be worth it. From Schiit:

2. Throw away that hand-made, pure-silver, lambswool-insulated USB cable. Audiophile USB cables can be problematic. Yes, we know, you spent ten billion dollars on it. Well, that’s cool and all, but in our testing, many audiophile brands are not capable of USB 2.0 transmission rates. Get a short, true USB 2.0-rated cable from Monoprice or Belkin (or our PYST cable, which is tested at USB 2.0 speed.)

Funny you mention making cables, though. Before putting away my soldering iron, I felt the need to make a set of short RCAs for my Schiit stack. Could have been an inch longer, since they stiffened up with the braid. Live and learn.

[Steve Manning]

Wishful thinking and Marketing Mumbo-Jumbo on Fuji's part I'm afraid. Six extra feet won't do diddly squat to eliminate any heat.
The heat is generated by the turbine blade(s) themselves whipping the air into a frenzy. Multi stage turbines (better) have more impellers / blades.
The long hose is smooth bore also. At times we ran the hose through a large bucket of water to cool the air down. Not recommended nor normal practice, too many ways things can go wrong.

Interesting photo of my F250 Impeller, I rebuilt the turbocharger and replaced the blade with an upgraded one for the "Pork Chop Express". The impeller on my spray turbine is MUCH smaller.
Ron

Mumbo - Jumbo, say it isn't so. My Earlex sprayer has a corrugated hose, but I was not sure if the Fuji did or not. I know it's a lot heavier duty than the one I have.

[jwanck11]

I am about to do another build and when I paint, I'll shoot the temp of the gasses leaving two different lengths of hose. I believe the longer hose does make a difference given it's a gas.

Also, my suggestions were based on the fact that I did not see a picture that substantiated fish-eye was the issue and the description did not sound like that was the case... fish eye is due to contaminants present on the material or introduced via the atomized mist. The effect is normally uniform and not a "couple of inches apart." That sounds more like an application issue. The reason I mentioned it is because the potential fixes are very different.... with fish-eye, it is the most drastic of fixes that is required. If I missed the picture that showed it was indeed fish-eye, whoops! lol.

[Renron]

Jwanck11,
Unless I'm mistaken the additional length of hose is provided by the whip hose, which is 6'. At best a degree or two drop from surface area exposure. The issue is that the hose itself gets hot simply from the volume of air that is being forced down the hose. High Volume Low Pressure. My opinion is not from conjecture or theory, it's from personal experience. Lots of it. Spraying a pair of bookshelf speaker will warm up the hose somewhat, a bookcase will make the hose HOT.

As far as fisheye's are concerned, they are the worst of the worst problems one can encounter when painting. They make runs look fun!

I truly mean no disrespect and realize that your experiences ARE different than the ones I've had. I can only speak from my personal experience. You are correct that contaminants (usually oils) are the causes of fisheyes. They can be introduced in many ways as you stated. However, they do not normally appear as uniform spacing and CAN be any pattern at all. Here's an example;
I was spraying an antique clawfoot bathtub that was manufactured in the early '20s. The product was laying down and flowing well over the Epoxy primer until one spot on the side of the tub fisheyed. It happened quickly and I watched it happen. Fortunately I was on my tack coat so I wiped the spot with acetone and came back to it after finishing the rest of the tack coat. I blended it in (only fair) and the fisheye was gone. In this case it was due to a sweat droplet that snuck out the back of my nitrile gloves. If I'm spraying for any length of time now I wrap a paper towel inside the cuff of my gloves. I'm not fat, but my hands sweat like a Pig. Just my luck.
Painting autos I've found the patterns you describe. Always because of improper surface prep cleaning or gun / product contamination. I don't know your background and experience with different mediums. Oil , waterborne, varnish, Acrylic, Polys, they all spray differently and require different techniques and gun settings. After 4 spray coats of Varnish I think I've almost figured out the gun settings/ air pressure / distance / speed / thinner ratio / temperature that this varnish likes. Maybe not...
I never saw a picture from Jon either.

Gloss is a controlled sag. Therein lies the problem. Varnish dries in two ways, evaporation and once skinned internal catalyst with heat. By it's design and nature it is very soft compared with other finishes. I've had more problems with the 2" 45* bevel over the tweeter than any other spot on the speakers. The lower edge near the tweeter just loves to develop a sag. Once the varnish skins, gravity pulls the uncured inside down the face of the 45* and it puddles on the bottom edge creating a "curtain" or ripple / sag. I don't think anyone would notice it and certainly not once the grills were on but it bothered me. So I sanded it down flat again and try again. I will find a way to hang the speaker to minimize the gravity issue, leaning it back somewhat next time. Adding more
dryer to the mix causes it to fire off too fast and not flow out as nice as I'd like.
No one said it would be easy.
Ron

[Steve Manning]

Hey Ron ..... do you know anything about this feature on the Fuji Q5 Platinum?

New Features!

Incorporated into its design is a proprietary Heat Dissipation Box (HDB). The HDB expels excess heat from the turbine resulting in much cooler operating temperatures. Less heat translates to longer motor life for your turbine. Because the hot air is routed to the rear of the turbine and passes through 60 holes the process is silent.

I wonder how that does for reducing heat to the gun?

[Renron]

Steve,
Good find. It looks like Fuji has tried to find a solution to the hot air problem. I haven't used it so I can't say how well it works. But, Fuji is a very well respected HVLP manufacturer and produces quality products.
There are two types of HVLP TURBINE (read Turbine) guns. One that always passes the air past / through the air cap and the other that opens that air passage when the trigger is pulled partway. Meanwhile, the turbine is spinning trying to compress large volumes of air. When that air is not passing through the hose, heat builds up quickly inside the turbine chamber and is transferred to the air. Air is a terrible conductor of heat, thank goodness.
With Fuji's new HDB system that heat and overflow air is passed through a plenum to a heat exchanger which vents to room air. Good attempt at the adiabatic process. (My son taught me that word) It probably works, I'm not in contact with anyone in the HVLP business anymore so I don't know anyone who has tried one to ask.

On the subject of spray guns, I used a siphon cup gun for most of my years painting. It worked well and is an evolved version of the original Binks design.
I still have 2 that I use on occasion, mostly for epoxy primer. I prefer (IMO) the gravity style gun and think it has a more uniform spray.
There are generally two styles, and both work well. The SATA clone or the IWATA clones. I have one of each, but prefer the Iwata style. Just my preference and a similar style / functions to what I learned on. Both are excellent guns and both can be had for <$200 new. Both are HVLP designs and run off a compressor not a turbine. Warwick makes great clones of the >$600 Sata and Iwata guns and can spray waterborne finishes. Not all spray guns can spray waterborne finishes, it depends on the composition of the internal components. ie; needle, passageways, springs ect.

In general, not directed at Steve. If you already have a good 4+hp compressor, you don't need to buy a turbine and gun set. Just get a good gun and filters. If you plan to do a lot of painting or clear finishing and can use the mobility of a compact system, get a turbine system. Fuji's are a good choice.

Most of the above is my opinion from personal experience.
Ron

[Steve Manning]

Steve,
Good find. It looks like Fuji has tried to find a solution to the hot air problem. I haven't used it so I can't say how well it works. But, Fuji is a very well respected HVLP manufacturer and produces quality products.
There are two types of HVLP TURBINE (read Turbine) guns. One that always passes the air past / through the air cap and the other that opens that air passage when the trigger is pulled partway. Meanwhile, the turbine is spinning trying to compress large volumes of air. When that air is not passing through the hose, heat builds up quickly inside the turbine chamber and is transferred to the air. Air is a terrible conductor of heat, thank goodness.
With Fuji's new HDB system that heat and overflow air is passed through a plenum to a heat exchanger which vents to room air. Good attempt at the adiabatic process. (My son taught me that word) It probably works, I'm not in contact with anyone in the HVLP business anymore so I don't know anyone who has tried one to ask.

On the subject of spray guns, I used a siphon cup gun for most of my years painting. It worked well and is an evolved version of the original Binks design.
I still have 2 that I use on occasion, mostly for epoxy primer. I prefer (IMO) the gravity style gun and think it has a more uniform spray.
There are generally two styles, and both work well. The SATA clone or the IWATA clones. I have one of each, but prefer the Iwata style. Just my preference and a similar style / functions to what I learned on. Both are excellent guns and both can be had for <$200 new. Both are HVLP designs and run off a compressor not a turbine. Warwick makes great clones of the >$600 Sata and Iwata guns and can spray waterborne finishes. Not all spray guns can spray waterborne finishes, it depends on the composition of the internal components. ie; needle, passageways, springs ect.

In general, not directed at Steve. If you already have a good 4+hp compressor, you don't need to buy a turbine and gun set. Just get a good gun and filters. If you plan to do a lot of painting or clear finishing and can use the mobility of a compact system, get a turbine system. Fuji's are a good choice.

Most of the above is my opinion from personal experience.
Ron

Thanks for the info Ron ..... I have an Earlex system which is a bleeder system and is only a single stage turbine, I assume that might not generate as much heat as a 4 or 5 stage unit? I've also only got a small pancake compressor to work with and don't really have the room for much bigger. At some point a nice Fuji might be in order me thinks ......

Love the 50 cent word of the day by the way ..... adiabatic. I'm used to using it in a different fashion though, as in adiabatic damping, which lives in the world of particle accelerators ......

"When a particle bunch is accelerated, the emittance will be reduced. This is called adiabatic damping and is a consequence of the fact that acceleration in RF cavities conserves transverse momentum while increasing the longitudinal momentum. Hence, x_ - and thereby the emittance - shrinks inversely proportional to the momentum. (We let x here denote both the horizontal and vertical coordinate)."