Official Wavecor Ardent Reference Thread - How we realized the Dream

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  • JonMarsh
    Mad Max Moderator
    • Aug 2000
    • 15330

    Official Wavecor Ardent Reference Thread - How we realized the Dream

    This thread was created for the purpose of introducing all the key concepts and documentation for the completed Wavecor Ardent without having to roam through the journal of the original Wavecor Ardent Thread. A little bit of the history of the Ardent project will be included in the introduction, but mainly this is intended to be the place to come if you want the details, including wood construction and crossover build variants. If, after reviewing this information, you have further construction related questions, bring them to this thread.


    Design: Wavecor Ardent floor standing three way



    This is the "concept" crossover, just the actual desired values, which can be used to generate your own personalized BOM, should you wish to use different crossover components.

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    Price: About $2900 for drivers, crossovers as built vary between about $1200 and $1500; cabinet materials including LBL panels for front panel about $400-500 in materials.

    Size:* Basic dimensions are 42-43" tall (depending on base design, whether tall base is used with crossover installed in bottom), 11" wide, and about 16" deep at any one point, remembering that the total front to back depth from floor to top is greater because of the angle.*

    Tweeter: ScanSpeak D3004/6640-00 Beryllium dome tweeter - other SS models (6620, 6600) were evaluated and discarded. The 6640 has low resonance and low distortion amplification, and a minimal breakup, matching the Accuton midrange driver in it's overall low coloration and very low high order distortion.

    Midrange:* Accuton C90-9-079, matched pair. Core concept for this speaker was the use of this midrange driver- due to low resonance, low distortion, and extended response, no other type considered.

    Woofer:* Wavecor SW223BD01 - 4 ohm, wired in series. A number of woofers were considered and tested in prototypes during the evolution of this design, including the Seas ER18RNX and the ScanSpeak Illuminator 18WU/8747T-00; and the 8" aluminum ScanSpeak Revlator; the desired low frequency performance required shifting to a sealed design and searching highly linear small form factor woofers, which like the Aurasound NS12, straddle the line between a subwoofer and woofer construction, offering a very stiff cone, exceptionally linear motor, and declining distortion up to 1 kHz; this supported creating a sealed alignment with a robust well damped bottom end similar to the much larger Isiris system, but of necessity at a lower sensitivity point (approximately 82 dB, similar to Magneplanars).

    Designers/team:* Jon Marsh with DAR47 and Benthe8track

    Other Design Notes:*Crossover is similar to the Isiris, being a three way implementation of a modified LR3 concept designed to work specifically with the normal driver offset delays of drivers mounted on a common front panel. Woofers are connected in series, to provide an easy to drive amplifier load. The provided schematic below looks "busy" because all the individual parts used to achieve a specific value are drawn out explicitly; in this case, for my personal build. (Updated June 20 to correct value of C6D, changed from 47uF to 56uF)

    Click image for larger version

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    The net load impedance is very benign and quite flat, especially considering no external conjugate networks are used to reduce impedance in the crossover regions; this is an inherent characteristic of all realizations to date of this crossover type, which may improve driver damping and limits impedance swings for amplifiers to deal with, especially vacuum tube and non-feedback types like Ayre Acoustics or Theta.



    Felt diffraction control is used in the grille panel, in conjunction with the crossover optimization to produce a wide vertical window with relatively small changes in response and minimizing diffraction effects to the degree possible. This measurement was not made with any attempt to optimize the low frequency positioning in the room (it was not in a normal listening position) and so response variations around 100Hz and below are due to non optimal setup and the long measurement window (200 msec).



    Distortion was correlated from one of the frequency response sweeps, at a level of about 90 dB. All drivers exhibit good performance, but especially the midrange.




    Related Designs:* Isiris three way using Aurasound woofers, Accuton C173-6-90 midrange, and Jantzen JDT-1024 diamond tweeter; NatalieP, Modula MT; all using the same modified LR3 crossover concept.
    Last edited by theSven; 24 May 2023, 16:38 Wednesday. Reason: Update image location
    the AudioWorx
    Natalie P
    M8ta
    Modula Neo DCC
    Modula MT XE
    Modula Xtreme
    Isiris
    Wavecor Ardent

    SMJ
    Minerva Monitor
    Calliope
    Ardent D

    In Development...
    Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
    Obi-Wan
    Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
    Modula PWB
    Calliope CC Supreme
    Natalie P Ultra
    Natalie P Supreme
    Janus BP1 Sub


    Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
    Just ask Mr. Ohm....
  • JonMarsh
    Mad Max Moderator
    • Aug 2000
    • 15330

    #2
    Introduction and short background history

    Place Holder - Introduction and short history
    the AudioWorx
    Natalie P
    M8ta
    Modula Neo DCC
    Modula MT XE
    Modula Xtreme
    Isiris
    Wavecor Ardent

    SMJ
    Minerva Monitor
    Calliope
    Ardent D

    In Development...
    Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
    Obi-Wan
    Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
    Modula PWB
    Calliope CC Supreme
    Natalie P Ultra
    Natalie P Supreme
    Janus BP1 Sub


    Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
    Just ask Mr. Ohm....

    Comment

    • JonMarsh
      Mad Max Moderator
      • Aug 2000
      • 15330

      #3
      Design Drawings

      Design drawings for the cabinet

      PDF's are available, too, but these PNG's are small to download and should print out well... and easily converted to PDF's. (well, on a Mac, anyway...)

      Anyone that needs high resolution versions of the construction PDF/PNG files, the way to do that is as follows:


      PM me!

      PM me. I have made them.

      No one besides me can download the original high resolution PNF files (I found out) from my Photo-bucket Pro account. They're the same as the images displayed on the first page, just sharper and will print better on large format printers. I can email them in a few mails, or setup a download via DropBox.



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      an update from DAR47, to locate the baffle facet cuts

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      Last edited by theSven; 30 June 2023, 16:35 Friday. Reason: Update text
      the AudioWorx
      Natalie P
      M8ta
      Modula Neo DCC
      Modula MT XE
      Modula Xtreme
      Isiris
      Wavecor Ardent

      SMJ
      Minerva Monitor
      Calliope
      Ardent D

      In Development...
      Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
      Obi-Wan
      Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
      Modula PWB
      Calliope CC Supreme
      Natalie P Ultra
      Natalie P Supreme
      Janus BP1 Sub


      Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
      Just ask Mr. Ohm....

      Comment

      • JonMarsh
        Mad Max Moderator
        • Aug 2000
        • 15330

        #4
        Crossover concept

        Crossover concept placeholder
        the AudioWorx
        Natalie P
        M8ta
        Modula Neo DCC
        Modula MT XE
        Modula Xtreme
        Isiris
        Wavecor Ardent

        SMJ
        Minerva Monitor
        Calliope
        Ardent D

        In Development...
        Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
        Obi-Wan
        Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
        Modula PWB
        Calliope CC Supreme
        Natalie P Ultra
        Natalie P Supreme
        Janus BP1 Sub


        Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
        Just ask Mr. Ohm....

        Comment

        • JonMarsh
          Mad Max Moderator
          • Aug 2000
          • 15330

          #5
          Crossover schematics and alternative BOM's
          the AudioWorx
          Natalie P
          M8ta
          Modula Neo DCC
          Modula MT XE
          Modula Xtreme
          Isiris
          Wavecor Ardent

          SMJ
          Minerva Monitor
          Calliope
          Ardent D

          In Development...
          Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
          Obi-Wan
          Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
          Modula PWB
          Calliope CC Supreme
          Natalie P Ultra
          Natalie P Supreme
          Janus BP1 Sub


          Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
          Just ask Mr. Ohm....

          Comment

          • JonMarsh
            Mad Max Moderator
            • Aug 2000
            • 15330

            #6
            Alternative Crossover construction (mechanical)

            Alternative Crossover Construction placeholder
            the AudioWorx
            Natalie P
            M8ta
            Modula Neo DCC
            Modula MT XE
            Modula Xtreme
            Isiris
            Wavecor Ardent

            SMJ
            Minerva Monitor
            Calliope
            Ardent D

            In Development...
            Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
            Obi-Wan
            Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
            Modula PWB
            Calliope CC Supreme
            Natalie P Ultra
            Natalie P Supreme
            Janus BP1 Sub


            Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
            Just ask Mr. Ohm....

            Comment

            • JonMarsh
              Mad Max Moderator
              • Aug 2000
              • 15330

              #7
              Measured performance - drivers & Crossover

              Measured performance - drivers & Crossover
              the AudioWorx
              Natalie P
              M8ta
              Modula Neo DCC
              Modula MT XE
              Modula Xtreme
              Isiris
              Wavecor Ardent

              SMJ
              Minerva Monitor
              Calliope
              Ardent D

              In Development...
              Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
              Obi-Wan
              Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
              Modula PWB
              Calliope CC Supreme
              Natalie P Ultra
              Natalie P Supreme
              Janus BP1 Sub


              Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
              Just ask Mr. Ohm....

              Comment

              • JonMarsh
                Mad Max Moderator
                • Aug 2000
                • 15330

                #8
                Construction Alternatives - fabrication and assembly

                Construction Alternatives- Tips and Techniques
                the AudioWorx
                Natalie P
                M8ta
                Modula Neo DCC
                Modula MT XE
                Modula Xtreme
                Isiris
                Wavecor Ardent

                SMJ
                Minerva Monitor
                Calliope
                Ardent D

                In Development...
                Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                Obi-Wan
                Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                Modula PWB
                Calliope CC Supreme
                Natalie P Ultra
                Natalie P Supreme
                Janus BP1 Sub


                Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                Comment

                • JonMarsh
                  Mad Max Moderator
                  • Aug 2000
                  • 15330

                  #9
                  Veneering and finishing as we did it- and touching on alternatives

                  Veneering - Placeholder
                  the AudioWorx
                  Natalie P
                  M8ta
                  Modula Neo DCC
                  Modula MT XE
                  Modula Xtreme
                  Isiris
                  Wavecor Ardent

                  SMJ
                  Minerva Monitor
                  Calliope
                  Ardent D

                  In Development...
                  Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                  Obi-Wan
                  Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                  Modula PWB
                  Calliope CC Supreme
                  Natalie P Ultra
                  Natalie P Supreme
                  Janus BP1 Sub


                  Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                  Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                  Comment

                  • JonMarsh
                    Mad Max Moderator
                    • Aug 2000
                    • 15330

                    #10
                    Finishing Tips and techniques - things we learned

                    Finishing- Tips and techniques, things we learned
                    the AudioWorx
                    Natalie P
                    M8ta
                    Modula Neo DCC
                    Modula MT XE
                    Modula Xtreme
                    Isiris
                    Wavecor Ardent

                    SMJ
                    Minerva Monitor
                    Calliope
                    Ardent D

                    In Development...
                    Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                    Obi-Wan
                    Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                    Modula PWB
                    Calliope CC Supreme
                    Natalie P Ultra
                    Natalie P Supreme
                    Janus BP1 Sub


                    Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                    Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                    Comment

                    • Jonasz
                      Senior Member
                      • Nov 2004
                      • 852

                      #11
                      Nice design as always Jon. :P

                      Question/proposition: The box seems, apart from the price of the drivers and crossovers oc, really intimidatingly hard to build for a non carpenter like myself . If making a rektangular box, with the same backwards baffle slope, the crossover surely would have to be remodeled? I think a lot more people, myself included, would build these if there were a simpler box alternative available. Sort of a "box for dummies" alternative.

                      Not a critisism, just a thought!

                      Comment

                      • JonMarsh
                        Mad Max Moderator
                        • Aug 2000
                        • 15330

                        #12
                        Actually, you could do these in a straight tower box with the same baffle width, it will not behave quite the same off axis horizontally, but on axis will be pretty much identical. (This I know from measured data early in the Ardent 1 project and comparing data in crossover design from a simple test box versus the first completed cabinets).

                        the Tilt thing is not really a problem either, because of the quasi LR3 crossover; the usable vertical window starts just below the midrange driver axis as is, and goes up quite a ways- they won't sound as good standing up close to them, as with the cabinet tilt back, but at any typical listening distance (2M or more) they should be fine seated and OK standing up, too.

                        With all the stuff going on a work and getting ready for Antarctica, and shipping some stuff to another HT Guide member, it may be a little slow filling out all of the reserved pages, but not more than a couple of weeks, I hope!
                        the AudioWorx
                        Natalie P
                        M8ta
                        Modula Neo DCC
                        Modula MT XE
                        Modula Xtreme
                        Isiris
                        Wavecor Ardent

                        SMJ
                        Minerva Monitor
                        Calliope
                        Ardent D

                        In Development...
                        Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                        Obi-Wan
                        Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                        Modula PWB
                        Calliope CC Supreme
                        Natalie P Ultra
                        Natalie P Supreme
                        Janus BP1 Sub


                        Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                        Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                        Comment

                        • augerpro
                          Super Senior Member
                          • Aug 2006
                          • 1868

                          #13
                          You really nailed this Jon, great drivers, great crossover, great design concepts, all pulled into one very tight package!
                          ~Brandon 8O
                          Please donate to my Waveguides for CNC and 3D Printing Project!!
                          Please donate to my Monster Box Construction Methods Project!!
                          DriverVault
                          Soma Sonus

                          Comment

                          • JonMarsh
                            Mad Max Moderator
                            • Aug 2000
                            • 15330

                            #14
                            Thanks for the kind words- but Let's not forget I had some real support in pulling this version together- Ben and his dad have been indispensable!
                            the AudioWorx
                            Natalie P
                            M8ta
                            Modula Neo DCC
                            Modula MT XE
                            Modula Xtreme
                            Isiris
                            Wavecor Ardent

                            SMJ
                            Minerva Monitor
                            Calliope
                            Ardent D

                            In Development...
                            Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                            Obi-Wan
                            Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                            Modula PWB
                            Calliope CC Supreme
                            Natalie P Ultra
                            Natalie P Supreme
                            Janus BP1 Sub


                            Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                            Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                            Comment

                            • 5th element
                              Supreme Being Moderator
                              • Sep 2009
                              • 1671

                              #15
                              Looks like this is going to be a design and write up of epic proportions once all the place holder threads have been expanded on!
                              What you screamin' for, every five minutes there's a bomb or something. I'm leavin' Bzzzzzzz!
                              5th Element, otherwise known as Matt.
                              Now with website. www.5een.co.uk Still under construction.

                              Comment

                              • TEK
                                Super Senior Member
                                • Oct 2002
                                • 1670

                                #16
                                Should not this thread be a sticky?

                                Then, a couple of questions. In the initial post the text states "ScanSpeak D3004/6640-00 Beryllium dome tweeter".
                                However, in the crossover diagram there is a "D2904/6640". I assume that this is the correct tweeter?

                                My next question is about the Accuton midrange. The text in the first post states that the midrange driver is "Accuton C90-9-079".
                                However, when I go to Accuton and look at their midranges I'm unable to find a C90-9-079 driver. I do however find C90-6-079.
                                What is the correct midrange driver to use and where do I find it?

                                Looking forward to the BOM is included...
                                -TEK


                                Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

                                Comment

                                • JonMarsh
                                  Mad Max Moderator
                                  • Aug 2000
                                  • 15330

                                  #17
                                  Good thing there is someone with the time to proof read this! The longer name for the tweeter is the "official" one in their data sheet, but I usually just call in the 6640. Accuton has changed their part numbering system at times, but the 9 is my mistake.

                                  As you can see I haven't had time to finish this up- preparing for Antarctica (leaving this coming Saturday) has been soaking up all the free CPU cycles and then some... this won't be a sticky, but will go into the Missions Accomplished, while the original "journal" thread will stay in the regular section. Getting ready for this trip has been about 4x the work of any other hiking trip abroad I've participated in. The others are feel like casual weekend outings in comparison... and now GF is talking about New Zealand, though I think that may have hit a speed bump, when I explained the likely airline pricing, and how a standard foreign ticket mileage block likely wouldn't cover it... she didn't believe me, and checked it out last night, as was shocked.... 200K miles for a free ticket to New Zealand... about $6600 for an advanced purchase Economy ticket. It's a long ways and a lot of flight legs. At least it's warm there... relatively!

                                  There will be several BOM's, reflecting the slightly different crossover builds due to different combinations of components, intended to all hit the same electrical target (there will be a simplified schematic showing that, too).
                                  the AudioWorx
                                  Natalie P
                                  M8ta
                                  Modula Neo DCC
                                  Modula MT XE
                                  Modula Xtreme
                                  Isiris
                                  Wavecor Ardent

                                  SMJ
                                  Minerva Monitor
                                  Calliope
                                  Ardent D

                                  In Development...
                                  Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                  Obi-Wan
                                  Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                  Modula PWB
                                  Calliope CC Supreme
                                  Natalie P Ultra
                                  Natalie P Supreme
                                  Janus BP1 Sub


                                  Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                  Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                  Comment

                                  • ergo
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Mar 2005
                                    • 681

                                    #18
                                    Jon, the part description mentions 'matched pair' for the Accuton mid. Is there a reseller in US who sells these units as a matched pair?

                                    I'm traveling from Europe to Redmond, WA next week and started thinking that ordering either mids or tweeters for hand carry back would make sense. The Mid seems to have a bit better price than in Europe + shipping inside US adds less. Not sure about state taxes being added?
                                    At home I'd need to order from Germany or Netherlands and thats usually some 30EUR shipping cost minimum that gets added.

                                    Ergo

                                    Comment

                                    • dar47
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Nov 2008
                                      • 876

                                      #19
                                      No there not matched pair, but I would look to source the woofers as they have made a change already from BD01 and I'm not sure if they will stop making them. I think the new ones are BD02. They were recently lowered in price by $100. from Solen Ele. in Can.

                                      Comment

                                      • JonMarsh
                                        Mad Max Moderator
                                        • Aug 2000
                                        • 15330

                                        #20
                                        The set of C79 I got from Madisound were, but I sourced these many years ago. 2009, if I recall correctly?

                                        From what I can tell and have read, there have been some suspension tweaks to the BD02, but T/S parameters and behavior for both 4 ohm models should be very close. They would be sort of heavy for carry-on... :W
                                        the AudioWorx
                                        Natalie P
                                        M8ta
                                        Modula Neo DCC
                                        Modula MT XE
                                        Modula Xtreme
                                        Isiris
                                        Wavecor Ardent

                                        SMJ
                                        Minerva Monitor
                                        Calliope
                                        Ardent D

                                        In Development...
                                        Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                        Obi-Wan
                                        Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                        Modula PWB
                                        Calliope CC Supreme
                                        Natalie P Ultra
                                        Natalie P Supreme
                                        Janus BP1 Sub


                                        Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                        Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                        Comment

                                        • TEK
                                          Super Senior Member
                                          • Oct 2002
                                          • 1670

                                          #21
                                          Thanks for your reply John.
                                          The drawing states 18mm BB, does BB stand for Bamboo?
                                          After looking into what it requires to source Bamboo at my location I will likely go for MDF and Birch ply instead of MDF and Bamboo.
                                          Will 18mm do or should one use 20, 22 or 24mm instead to compensate for the lack of stiffness of Birch ply compared to Bamboo (given that BB actually stands for Bamboo)?
                                          -TEK


                                          Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

                                          Comment

                                          • benthe8track
                                            Senior Member
                                            • Feb 2008
                                            • 371

                                            #22
                                            BB= Baltic Birch.
                                            Bamboo=Bamboo.

                                            Comment

                                            • TEK
                                              Super Senior Member
                                              • Oct 2002
                                              • 1670

                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by benthe8track
                                              BB= Baltic Birch.
                                              Bamboo=Bamboo.
                                              Thanks.
                                              But you build this using Bamboo - so the drawings here is a more "regular human" version? ;-)
                                              -TEK


                                              Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

                                              Comment

                                              • dar47
                                                Senior Member
                                                • Nov 2008
                                                • 876

                                                #24
                                                The only Bamboo in the Ardents are the outer 2 layers of the baffle, take a look through the build thread and each part has material needed in the parts drawing. Just missing the grill construction which I will add.

                                                Comment

                                                • JonMarsh
                                                  Mad Max Moderator
                                                  • Aug 2000
                                                  • 15330

                                                  #25
                                                  Good follow up.

                                                  Today we fly out- I'll be back in the real world around March 18- until then, the prohibitive cost of broadband on the ship and in Argentina pretty much rules out connectivity!

                                                  See you guys soon.... :B
                                                  the AudioWorx
                                                  Natalie P
                                                  M8ta
                                                  Modula Neo DCC
                                                  Modula MT XE
                                                  Modula Xtreme
                                                  Isiris
                                                  Wavecor Ardent

                                                  SMJ
                                                  Minerva Monitor
                                                  Calliope
                                                  Ardent D

                                                  In Development...
                                                  Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                  Obi-Wan
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                                                  Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                  Comment

                                                  • TEK
                                                    Super Senior Member
                                                    • Oct 2002
                                                    • 1670

                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by dar47
                                                    The only Bamboo in the Ardents are the outer 2 layers of the baffle, take a look through the build thread and each part has material needed in the parts drawing. Just missing the grill construction which I will add.
                                                    Thanks. Just me then. I think it's because I was planning on building an all outer layer bamboo edition. I have moved away from that idea now.

                                                    When it comes to the drawings, they seems to be really well done. I was planning on drawing up the speaker myself and make measurements using the metric system, but I think I will use your drawings as they are and instead try build it using the imperial system.

                                                    In that regard I have a question. 1/2" MDF converts to 12,7mm. In norway it seems as the MDF is 12mm, not 12,7mm. I guess I will have to accommodate for the difference between 1/2" MDF in US vs. 12mm MDF in Norway.
                                                    Is indeed the US 1/2" MDF exactly 12,7mm?

                                                    PS: The material that the baffle is laminated from does not seem to be noted in the drawings.
                                                    -TEK


                                                    Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

                                                    Comment

                                                    • TEK
                                                      Super Senior Member
                                                      • Oct 2002
                                                      • 1670

                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by JonMarsh
                                                      The set of C79 I got from Madisound were, but I sourced these many years ago. 2009, if I recall correctly?

                                                      From what I can tell and have read, there have been some suspension tweaks to the BD02, but T/S parameters and behavior for both 4 ohm models should be very close. They would be sort of heavy for carry-on... :W
                                                      Wavecor describes the difference here:

                                                      Spec's:


                                                      I do not know mutch about this, but it does not seems to me that 02 will be a drop-in-replacement for 01.
                                                      Sensitivity: 85 vs. 83
                                                      Sd: 214 vs. 206
                                                      Fs: 26 vs 24
                                                      Qms: 14,4 vs 10,7
                                                      ...
                                                      -TEK


                                                      Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

                                                      Comment

                                                      • dar47
                                                        Senior Member
                                                        • Nov 2008
                                                        • 876

                                                        #28
                                                        Tek,

                                                        Your dadoes and half laps just need to be adjusted for the 12mm MDF, little math and you can decide on the tolerances 1mm (1/32") what ever you like. The baffle is made from 1 inner and 1 outer Baltic Birch layer, 2 bamboo layers inner and outer for a total of 4 layers. Just follow the title blocks for each piece (lower right side of each drawing).

                                                        Comment

                                                        • TEK
                                                          Super Senior Member
                                                          • Oct 2002
                                                          • 1670

                                                          #29
                                                          dar47, the MDF sold in Norway as 12mm MDF shows to actually be 1/2".
                                                          Something that explains some precision issues I have had on some previous builds...
                                                          In this case it means that I can follow the plans excactly as they are
                                                          -TEK


                                                          Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

                                                          Comment

                                                          • TEK
                                                            Super Senior Member
                                                            • Oct 2002
                                                            • 1670

                                                            #30
                                                            Is it likely that tha official BOM will be added soon?
                                                            (All elements have been received - time to start ordering the other parts...)
                                                            -TEK


                                                            Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

                                                            Comment

                                                            • JonMarsh
                                                              Mad Max Moderator
                                                              • Aug 2000
                                                              • 15330

                                                              #31
                                                              Yes, soon... barring another week like this last at work (think: a lot of key people out on spring break; another key person who's out closing the deal on a house, then turning in his resignation the next day. The attrition on our team so far this month is three guys... hope the month ends soon! Oh, yeah, it's not even the 15th yet. For this one key customer, that means we've gone from 5 to 2 supporting them, as all three guys were on that customer, and that 5 count includes adding me back in as support, where as I'm supposed to be off doing other things now resembling my original job (wasn't this week). I bet our group director is living on antacids right now... in theory, we're down to just one guy. :roll:

                                                              The BOM has been pushed now to next to the top of the list, right after taxes.... :W
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                                                              Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                              Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                              Comment

                                                              • dar47
                                                                Senior Member
                                                                • Nov 2008
                                                                • 876

                                                                #32
                                                                Moved to your tread.
                                                                Last edited by dar47; 11 April 2015, 23:31 Saturday.

                                                                Comment

                                                                • benthe8track
                                                                  Senior Member
                                                                  • Feb 2008
                                                                  • 371

                                                                  #33
                                                                  We all did the same design but with different parts.
                                                                  This is what I used:

                                                                  Comment

                                                                  • JonMarsh
                                                                    Mad Max Moderator
                                                                    • Aug 2000
                                                                    • 15330

                                                                    #34
                                                                    My plan has been to publish versions of the schematics for all three builds, and the BOM for each. As well, a generic lumped schematic.
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                                                                    Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • TEK
                                                                      Super Senior Member
                                                                      • Oct 2002
                                                                      • 1670

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Originally posted by JonMarsh
                                                                      My plan has been to publish versions of the schematics for all three builds, and the BOM for each. As well, a generic lumped schematic.
                                                                      Are the crossover for the 3 builds different?
                                                                      That would mean that the parts list from dar47, benthe8track and you will not only differenciate in the quality of selected components, but also in values?
                                                                      Or are I'm misunderstanding your comment?
                                                                      -TEK


                                                                      Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

                                                                      Comment

                                                                      • JonMarsh
                                                                        Mad Max Moderator
                                                                        • Aug 2000
                                                                        • 15330

                                                                        #36
                                                                        The net values of each component position are the same; but the way those values are implemented, i.e., the number of caps, and values of caps, and brand/type, may differ due to my level of OCD-ness and DAR47's level of frugality and practicality- probably leaving Ben somewhere in the middle... :W

                                                                        That's why I thought it a reasonable idea to publish a generic lumped value schematic (what you usually see, and what you'd see simulating in LspCAD, for example); but also, for my development builds, to share as much information as possible, I published detailed schematics which indicated the specific component type and count.

                                                                        Like this:



                                                                        For example, C1 would just be described as a 75 or 78 uF cap, but the schematic above shows the specific component implementation. Likewise, C2 is a 53 uF cap. Anyway you want to do that will meet the basic electrical requirements- you might use a different brand and series of caps, which will, in my experience, not change the measured response significantly but may sound different due to subtle differences in energy storage and resonance in the capacitors themselves.

                                                                        If money and size were no objects, I'd say use all Clarity MR caps, or even Duelund caps. That would be a huge crossover and hugely expensive. In this case I tried to balance cost and size and performance, and make it all fit in the taller bases I built for mine- there is no crossover for mine located inside the acoustic cabinet.

                                                                        Last edited by theSven; 24 May 2023, 16:44 Wednesday. Reason: Update image location
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                                                                        Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • Wayman
                                                                          Member
                                                                          • May 2014
                                                                          • 89

                                                                          #37
                                                                          HI,

                                                                          Is there a drawing with the pre-cut layout for the facets?

                                                                          thanks, Wayne

                                                                          Comment

                                                                          • JonMarsh
                                                                            Mad Max Moderator
                                                                            • Aug 2000
                                                                            • 15330

                                                                            #38
                                                                            Net lumped target values are the same, but the component selections used to achieve those target values are different. Different brands of capacitors, different combinations, to net the same micro farads.
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                                                                            Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                                            Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • dar47
                                                                              Senior Member
                                                                              • Nov 2008
                                                                              • 876

                                                                              #39
                                                                              Facets are dimensioned from exact finished glued up front baffle. From the Front Baffle Assembly drawing the facets are dimensioned from the bottom for 40 deg. cuts. If your baffles are wider for pre assemble you will have to compensate.

                                                                              Comment

                                                                              • Wayman
                                                                                Member
                                                                                • May 2014
                                                                                • 89

                                                                                #40
                                                                                Yes, I see that on the center drawing, but I still do not have enough information. That drawing does indicate the facets as measured from the bottom, however the side view (to the right) clearly shows the measurement taken from where the facet meets the outside edge at the bottom. If I had the measurement across the front at the bottom and top I could combine those with what is on the drawing.
                                                                                Hope that makes sense!

                                                                                Cheers, Wayne

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • JeanM
                                                                                  Junior Member
                                                                                  • Apr 2015
                                                                                  • 27

                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  Wow, what a build! Great job!

                                                                                  Comment

                                                                                  • TEK
                                                                                    Super Senior Member
                                                                                    • Oct 2002
                                                                                    • 1670

                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    Originally posted by Wayman
                                                                                    Yes, I see that on the center drawing, but I still do not have enough information. That drawing does indicate the facets as measured from the bottom, however the side view (to the right) clearly shows the measurement taken from where the facet meets the outside edge at the bottom. If I had the measurement across the front at the bottom and top I could combine those with what is on the drawing.
                                                                                    Hope that makes sense!

                                                                                    Cheers, Wayne
                                                                                    Click image for larger version

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                                                                                    Seems to me as if we are missing the measurement for the ? mark shown here.
                                                                                    Both at the top and buttom (if not the same).
                                                                                    Could probably wing it after taste dough...
                                                                                    -TEK


                                                                                    Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • dar47
                                                                                      Senior Member
                                                                                      • Nov 2008
                                                                                      • 876

                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      Up from the front face and finished dimension of the facet's. Remember this assumes the exact width of the cabinet, hope this helps?

                                                                                      Last edited by theSven; 30 June 2023, 16:36 Friday. Reason: Update text

                                                                                      Comment

                                                                                      • Wayman
                                                                                        Member
                                                                                        • May 2014
                                                                                        • 89

                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        Yes, that will do it!

                                                                                        Now I have the reference points I need.

                                                                                        Thank you! Wayne

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • JonMarsh
                                                                                          Mad Max Moderator
                                                                                          • Aug 2000
                                                                                          • 15330

                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          Updated on the first page, too.
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                                                                                          Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                                                          Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                                                          Comment

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