Statements and CC build for my winter project

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  • kevinm
    Senior Member
    • Jun 2013
    • 417

    Statements and CC build for my winter project

    Hey guys,

    I changed my plans around and got WAF (well, girlfriend in my case) to start working on a set of Statements for LR and the Statements CC . I'm starting to pool my resources and plan where I am going to purchase everything.

    When I was looking at resistors and I noticed quite a few vocal advocates of mills resistors over the Dayton ones. In your experience is there a difference? Are they worth using instead of the Dayton's?

    Thanks!
  • Jim Holtz
    Ultra Senior Member
    • Mar 2005
    • 3223

    #2
    Hi Kevin,

    Mills are excellent but quite pricey. I like the resistors Meniscus and Madisound just as well as the Mills and they are significantly cheaper. A thought. If you anticipate exploring the upper SPL capabilities, I'd suggest you consider doubling the resistor crossover value and paralleling them for double the power handling.

    There's nothing wrong with the Dayton resistors but the wires are short and thin so they break easily.

    We're looking forward to seeing your build. We love to see pictures!

    Jim

    Comment

    • kevinm
      Senior Member
      • Jun 2013
      • 417

      #3
      Jim!

      I've gotten the feeling that it's more about the leads than the sound quality from what I've read.

      So instead of using one 10ohm 10w resistor, I would use two 20ohm 10w resistors wired in parallel for a power handling of 20w?

      Also, are those piano black painted Statements on your site yours? If so, do you have a thread/somewhere I can reference on how to finish my speakers like that? I was looking to finish mine in a nice shiny piano black.

      I can't wait to get started. They'll be plenty of pictures!

      Thanks!

      Comment

      • Jim Holtz
        Ultra Senior Member
        • Mar 2005
        • 3223

        #4
        Originally posted by kevinm
        Jim!

        I've gotten the feeling that it's more about the leads than the sound quality from what I've read.

        So instead of using one 10ohm 10w resistor, I would use two 20ohm 10w resistors wired in parallel for a power handling of 20w?

        Also, are those piano black painted Statements on your site yours? If so, do you have a thread/somewhere I can reference on how to finish my speakers like that? I was looking to finish mine in a nice shiny piano black.

        I can't wait to get started. They'll be plenty of pictures!

        Thanks!
        Yes, two 20 ohm resistors paralleled become a 10 ohm with twice the handling power.

        The 1st thing to know about painting gloss black is that it's an incredible amount of work and every tiny imperfection shows. I painted my Statements like a car. I skim coated the entire speaker with bondo to seal the surface and fill imperfections. Sanded until I thought it was perfect and then started the process of prime, sand, prime sand etc. until I thought it was perfect. I then shot it with a guide coat of black, sanding lightly to identify low areas and imperfections I'd missed. I repaired them and then was finally ready to apply the top coats.

        I have a large upright compressor in my garage that I piped air from to my basement. I created a temporary paint stall out of PVC pipe and shower curtains. I bought a medium grade automotive paint gun to shoot with. After shooting several speakers, I'd recommend using Crystalac which is water base and has super low VOC's. It just doesn't have any odor. I'd also do a base coat - top coat process with 3-4 coats of black fine sanded followed with 3-4 coats of super premium clear. That should minimize the sanding and machine buffing required for the gloss black finish.

        Scared yet? You should be... Actually, what I do now is use vertical grade gloss black Wilsonart laminate. You can order it through Home Depot and other place. Apply it like veneer with contact cement and it looks like a finely painted surface in a dimly lit home. Much, much easier. You just can't use rounded corners on the cabinet.

        Good luck!

        Jim

        Comment

        • Jim Holtz
          Ultra Senior Member
          • Mar 2005
          • 3223

          #5
          A quick clarification. That is Curt's website, not mine. Curt generously hosts the projects we've done together on his website. Also, Curt is the man who makes them sing. I just build them and come up with crazy ideas from time to time. :-)

          Jim

          Comment

          • kevinm
            Senior Member
            • Jun 2013
            • 417

            #6
            Intimidated and scared? For sure. But I'm still going to try it.

            My father has the same kind of air compressor in his shop and has wanted to build in a painting area for his cars. So I'll probably spend some time with them bare until I can persuade him into letting me use that. A lot of work, but they look so beautiful. I like the round overs, so I think my only option is painting. I'll explore other finishes - you never know, something might pop out at me :-)

            One last question about the resistors, should I double up on the power handling on all of them? Or just the woofers?

            Comment

            • Jim Holtz
              Ultra Senior Member
              • Mar 2005
              • 3223

              #7
              Originally posted by kevinm
              One last question about the resistors, should I double up on the power handling on all of them? Or just the woofers?
              The mid woofer circuit is the one that stresses the resistors the most and benefits from increased power handling but it won't hurt the ribbon circuit either. This is a very cheap upgrade that gives you a margin of error if you crank the volume too much too long. :W

              Jim

              Comment

              • kevinm
                Senior Member
                • Jun 2013
                • 417

                #8
                Perfect. One more resistor question, sorry! There aren't any 16ohm mills resistors, what's the best option? Can I wire (2) 8ohm resistors in a series and then parallel wire them to another set of identical resistors?

                Edit: never mind, Dayton sells 16ohm resistors - good to go.
                Last edited by kevinm; 02 January 2014, 03:02 Thursday.

                Comment

                • kevinm
                  Senior Member
                  • Jun 2013
                  • 417

                  #9
                  Quick update, the tweeters came in over the weekend and I cut all the wood yesterday. I'm going to start gluing tonight

                  Will be making progress over the next few weeks. Looking to have them ready for SuperBowl weekend (luckily I won't be painting until Summer)

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                  Comment

                  • wkhanna
                    Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                    • Jan 2006
                    • 5673

                    #10
                    That is a beautiful sight!
                    _


                    Bill

                    Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                    ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                    FinleyAudio

                    Comment

                    • kevinm
                      Senior Member
                      • Jun 2013
                      • 417

                      #11
                      Yeah it is!

                      I love seeing a project in its resource phase - always means the fun is about to begin!

                      Last night I glued the mid-tunnels together as well as the baffle boards.

                      First I put the bottom of the mid-tunnel on a few pieces of wood so that I would have the clearance to fit clamps underneath. I then lined it with glue like so.
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                      Next I just gently put the sides on and aligned them flush with the edges. Then I put glue on the top of those like so.
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                      Then I placed the top on and re-aligned all of the edges. Once I was comfortable with those, I placed one clamp on each side as seen below. I tightened to just apply a little pressure. Re-checked my alignments and made any adjustments if necessary. Then cranked them down and re-checked. I let them dry over night.
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                      Next I prepped the baffle boards. I used quite a bit of glue, only the zig zag is necessary. I just did the extra to make myself feel better.
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                      I only had 3 clamps left, so I decided to use the old school poor man's style of clamping. I put my glue down on the 1/2in, placed my second 3/4in board on top and aligned all of the edges. I then started placing everything heavy I could find in my garage on top of the boards. I did it incrementally so I could make any adjustments to the boards alignment if necessary. If you use this method, make sure to put a protective layer between the baffle and any weights - don't want to scratch anything.
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                      EDIT - Crude, but very effective and easy to do if you're not in a full woodshop like me. Next up tonight are the mid-tunnel braces and part of the center channel (probably mid-tunnel).

                      Question to anyone who has built them before:

                      What is the best method to cutting the vent holes for the mid-tunnels in the back? I was thinking taking a chuck of the material away with a circle jig and the router and then flush trimming the rest? Since the hole is square and flush trim bits use a wheel bearing, I assume there is a little lip left in each corner. Do you guys leave it since it is covered by the foam? Thanks!

                      Comment

                      • kevinm
                        Senior Member
                        • Jun 2013
                        • 417

                        #12
                        Deleted - duplicate post.

                        Comment

                        • bigjohn
                          Member
                          • Dec 2010
                          • 61

                          #13
                          Originally posted by kevinm
                          Question to anyone who has built them before:

                          What is the best method to cutting the vent holes for the mid-tunnels in the back? I was thinking taking a chuck of the material away with a circle jig and the router and then flush trimming the rest? Since the hole is square and flush trim bits use a wheel bearing, I assume there is a little lip left in each corner. Do you guys leave it since it is covered by the foam? Thanks!
                          I just used a flush trim bit, drilled a hole ruffly in the middle and went from there, I left the material in the corners as the foam covered it

                          Comment

                          • kevinm
                            Senior Member
                            • Jun 2013
                            • 417

                            #14
                            Got it! Thanks John.

                            Made some more progress.

                            To glue the braces on the mid-tunnels, I cut 4in and 5in 2x4s to act as spacers. Worked quite well. Put a set on each side. Don't do what I did and forget to route the little tweeter clearances. I had to do it after I glued the braces on - which proved to be quite difficult.
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                            First I glued the sides, bottom, top, and braces together. I measured out each brace (both on the bottom (well, side) and on the top (other side) so that I could ensure my braces were even. So I marked the braces on both sides. Looked like the following:
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                            Next I did a dry fit to make everything was good. I actually had miscalculated one of the braces, so when I put the top on (other side), the line it was supposed to match up to let me know I had a mistake. So +1 for that extra precaution already! Once I was satisfied with the fit, I took it back apart and put glue on bottom side. I then placed my braces. Quickly, I added more glue to the top of the braces. Once all were glued, I gently put the top and realigned all of my edges. Once satisfied, I put the corner clamps on. I then moved to the middle where the mid-tunnels were. I put a piece of wood on either side and clamped down. This made sure my mid-tunnels would be flush to the baffle and rear board when it came time to glue those. I then added clamps to all of the location of my braces.*
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                            Unfortunately, in all of the excitement and the proximity of dinner, I forgot to snap pictures of Part 1 of this setup. First I glued on the sides. I didn't add the braces or top, but I did place 2 2x4 scraps on top of the middle tunnel. I then put the top of the box on top of that. This made it when I clamped down on the bottom, the top would stabilize the sides from moving.

                            Next I added the braces (rounded over) and the top - in that order. Then clamped down - as shown below. Make to route the tweeter clearance before glued the top/braces on!
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                            Comment

                            • kevinm
                              Senior Member
                              • Jun 2013
                              • 417

                              #15
                              Can someone take a look at these crossover layouts and let me know if they look like they will work? Thanks!

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                              Comment

                              • john trials
                                Senior Member
                                • Mar 2009
                                • 449

                                #16
                                Tweeter circuit: The 16ohm pair should be connected to the open end of the inductor (connect those open ends where you labeled (SPK-)). I know you just laid some of the components in place, but I just want to make sure you know about that connection.

                                Mid circuit is wrong. Take a close look at the schematic. The midrange drivers are reverse polarity in the schematic. You have it labeled backwards on your layout. Reverse your (SPK-) and (SPK+).

                                Woofer circuit is wrong. Move the label (-IN) to the open end of the capacitor. (-IN) and (-OUT) should be at the same point, or node.

                                Post more photos when you have your crossovers soldered. I don't come to this forum often, but I'll try and remember to check back.
                                Statements: "They usually kill the desire to build anything else."

                                Comment

                                • kevinm
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Jun 2013
                                  • 417

                                  #17
                                  Thanks for mentioning about the mids. I remember seeing that a few times before, but it had slipped my mind. Needed the fresh reminder!

                                  Thanks for the tips! I'll be back...

                                  Comment

                                  • BeerParty
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Oct 2008
                                    • 475

                                    #18
                                    Looks like they are coming along nicely, keep up the good work.
                                    Chris

                                    My Statement Monitors Build
                                    My AviaTrix Build

                                    Comment

                                    • kevinm
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Jun 2013
                                      • 417

                                      #19
                                      How do these look?
                                      Attached Files

                                      Comment

                                      • JonMarsh
                                        Mad Max Moderator
                                        • Aug 2000
                                        • 15261

                                        #20
                                        Coming along very nicely!

                                        I do really recommend bolting down the iron core inductors, even I, the biggest fan of hot glue in the world, don't rely on glue for them! :W


                                        Example construction:

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                                        Last edited by theSven; 01 May 2023, 21:20 Monday. Reason: Update image location
                                        the AudioWorx
                                        Natalie P
                                        M8ta
                                        Modula Neo DCC
                                        Modula MT XE
                                        Modula Xtreme
                                        Isiris
                                        Wavecor Ardent

                                        SMJ
                                        Minerva Monitor
                                        Calliope
                                        Ardent D

                                        In Development...
                                        Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                        Obi-Wan
                                        Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                        Modula PWB
                                        Calliope CC Supreme
                                        Natalie P Ultra
                                        Natalie P Supreme
                                        Janus BP1 Sub


                                        Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                        Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                        Comment

                                        • kevinm
                                          Senior Member
                                          • Jun 2013
                                          • 417

                                          #21
                                          Thanks for the tip, Jon. Definitely a good idea.

                                          I like the wire used in those crossovers. Are they yours? If so, what kind of wire is that?

                                          Comment

                                          • JonMarsh
                                            Mad Max Moderator
                                            • Aug 2000
                                            • 15261

                                            #22
                                            Those are the MkII LF crossovers for the Isiris (yup, one of mine, er, actually, two of mine!) The bus wire is Alpha AWG 12 bus wire, just bought another spool of that.

                                            We recently discussed one of the places on the web to get surplus wire, but I'm drawing a blank on the name (early Alzheimers); there are LOTS of surplus places, so a brief Google search will turn up plenty- start on eBay, for that matter. OTOH, many of them are selling only spools, and that is pricey. I'll do my best to remember the surplus dealer we were discussing; he's a little bit of a PITA, have to order on the phone, but good prices.

                                            Oops, just figured it out! There is an Apex Surplus, but there is also an Apex jr.


                                            the AudioWorx
                                            Natalie P
                                            M8ta
                                            Modula Neo DCC
                                            Modula MT XE
                                            Modula Xtreme
                                            Isiris
                                            Wavecor Ardent

                                            SMJ
                                            Minerva Monitor
                                            Calliope
                                            Ardent D

                                            In Development...
                                            Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                            Obi-Wan
                                            Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                            Modula PWB
                                            Calliope CC Supreme
                                            Natalie P Ultra
                                            Natalie P Supreme
                                            Janus BP1 Sub


                                            Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                            Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                            Comment

                                            • kevinm
                                              Senior Member
                                              • Jun 2013
                                              • 417

                                              #23
                                              I'm going to have to grab some. That is super clean and easy to compact. I like it!

                                              Comment

                                              • kevinm
                                                Senior Member
                                                • Jun 2013
                                                • 417

                                                #24
                                                To measure the baffle board, I started with the tweeter and used it as a point of reference for the rest. Pretty much followed the schematics. Just make sure to account for any added width/length for an easy flush trim route later on!
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                                                I cut the baffle depth by just place the driver on the bottom of my router and measuring until the bit was just above it - basically just eye-balled it. Worked pretty well. Cut the holes 1/16th bigger than listed on the schematics!
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                                                I then chamfered the back with a 45 degree bit. This part was DUSTY. :E:E:E:E:E:E
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                                                Followed the same procedure as above for the center. Here is the back after chamfering
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                                                Clamping together
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                                                Comment

                                                • kevinm
                                                  Senior Member
                                                  • Jun 2013
                                                  • 417

                                                  #25
                                                  Clamped together and ready for some stuffing, drivers, and crossovers!
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                                                  Unfortunately I didn't take pictures of the next steps - but I can partly fix that when I take them apart this weekend to add the feet and check a few things. I will take some pictures of the inside and other things.

                                                  So, placeholder for now!

                                                  Comment

                                                  • kevinm
                                                    Senior Member
                                                    • Jun 2013
                                                    • 417

                                                    #26
                                                    Mostly done! They still need the spikes, but they are functionally done. I'm not going to finish them until it warms up, so they will be left as bare MDF until then.

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                                                    Listening impressions!

                                                    First, here is my setup:

                                                    Processor
                                                    Emotiva UMC-1

                                                    Amp
                                                    Emotiva UPA-5 (185 watts per channel at 4ohms x 5)
                                                    Dayton Audio SA1000 (LFE)

                                                    Inputs
                                                    Xbox One
                                                    HTPC
                                                    Apple TV

                                                    Display
                                                    Sony 70inch LED TV

                                                    Demoed Source Material

                                                    A few of the songs:
                                                    Change the World - Eric Clapton
                                                    Bali Run - Four Play
                                                    Sleep Through the Static - Jack Johnson
                                                    Carry On - Fun.
                                                    Come Away With Me: Norah Jones
                                                    Thunderstruck - AC/DC

                                                    Live Concerts (Bluray with Lossless Audio from HTPC):
                                                    Adele - Live at Royal Albert Hall
                                                    Dave Matthews - Live at Radio City Hall
                                                    John Mayer - Where the Light Is
                                                    Mumford and Sons - Road to Red Rocks
                                                    Michael Bublè - Caught in the Act

                                                    Movies (Bluray with Lossless Audio from HTPC):
                                                    Battleship
                                                    Dark Knight Rises
                                                    Jurassic Park
                                                    The Hobbit
                                                    Tron: Legacy

                                                    Impressions

                                                    These guys replaced a set of DIY Obelisk towers using a 10in woofer, mid dome, and vita tweet. They are about 91-92 efficient. Very decent, but fatigued fairly easily (well, compared to those subs .

                                                    So when I first warmed up the Statements on Sunday, I have to be honest, I wasn't that impressed. I knew they would be much quieter, but the sound still wasn't much better than what they replaced. I didn’t hear the “life” everyone was talking about. I fiddled around with my processor to reset all of the EQing done for the previous speakers and that helped. We started to audition some different music and movies and it was starting to get impressive. Crisp and full sounding. I still wasn’t blown away, though.

                                                    Then it was time for our Seahawks party, so we turned everything down and put on the game. During the game at one point a commercial came on and I noticed the sound was different – a lot more alive. So after everyone left, we went through everything again.

                                                    WOW. They just needed some break-in time. Once everything got 6-8 hours of use, they REALLY came alive. They’re so crisp and full. I wanted to wait on writing this for a few days so I could let them break in over the week. I've never seen a speaker benefit so much from a break in time. After about 3 days of use, they really warmed up. I'm not really sure how to describe them. Punchy, deep, clear, balanced? Pretty much just recounting everyone else's comments. Simply amazing.

                                                    For two channel music, they really amaze. Acoustic guitars sound in-person, voices sound soooooooo natural (Adele was mind-blowing here), horns just melt your soul. Truly incredible. What I liked is I never felt they were designed for one type on genre. I played everything I could think of and they just did it well. I've heard so many speakers in the past that really sparkle in one genre, but kind of flat in others. These are just meticulously balanced. Beautiful. One more thing, those mid tunnels are so unique and cool. I tricked about 5 people with them - everyone thought sound was coming from the center speaker when they were in two channel mode. Sound stage is SO wide.

                                                    Movies.....ahh man. Just incredible. I've had trouble finding anything to keep up with those subs, but these do it just fine. The opening action scene in Dark Knight Rises shakes the foundation of the house. Before it was all bass, but with these, the gun shots were terrifyingly real sounding. They rang and were felt. Everyone loved them for movies. Powerful, but articulate. Balanced without fatigue. Really not much else to say!

                                                    I have to say though, I am most impressed with the center speaker. Voices don’t have what I like to call “little box syndrome”. They just don’t sound like they’re coming from a little box. Both male and female voices are very natural and blend right in with the towers – more like a movie theater. It doesn't sound like it is struggling in the slightest to keep up. VERY, VERY cool. A perfect match.

                                                    They are a bit (I mean tiny) brighter than I imagined, but it is not by any means fatiguing. It might be my young age, but I have always leaned towards a softer sound. But these are quickly changing that.

                                                    My only real complaint is they are power hungry. Don't get me wrong, 185 watts isn't struggling to power them, but I feel like these could really benefit from a few hundred more. I think an XPA-2 or XPR-2 might be in my future

                                                    Jim, Curt, you guys are men amongst boys. ;x(;x(;x(;x(;x(;x(;x(

                                                    I really appreciate your time and effort with these. Even more so, thank you for sharing the design. Simply incredible design.

                                                    One last complaint, they dwarf my TV compared to the Obelisk towers I had

                                                    Comment

                                                    • Jim Holtz
                                                      Ultra Senior Member
                                                      • Mar 2005
                                                      • 3223

                                                      #27
                                                      Perfect! I'm really pleased that you're enjoying the Statements as much as I do. Curt is the man that deserves all the credit for how they sound. It's his wizardry that makes them sing! :T

                                                      BTW, you did a great job of building them. They look great!

                                                      Jim

                                                      Comment

                                                      • dar47
                                                        Senior Member
                                                        • Nov 2008
                                                        • 873

                                                        #28
                                                        Great job, you have joined the army of statement builders. Jim it would be neat to run a poll to find out how many people have built statements, These may just be the most popular DIY build of all time?

                                                        Comment

                                                        • kevinm
                                                          Senior Member
                                                          • Jun 2013
                                                          • 417

                                                          #29
                                                          Jim, you by far don't give yourself enough credit! Your design is very impressive.

                                                          Thanks guys!

                                                          Comment

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