Best $1,000 upgrade to my 802DI system?

[SPACEMANRICK]

I am considering an upgrade to my 2 channel stereo system which currently consists of my 802DI speakers, Cambridge 840W 200 watt amplifier, Cambridge 840E pre amp, B&W ASW CM subwoofer, and squeezebox touch for a source. If you had a $1,000 budget, what do you think would offer most bang for the buck to improve my sound.... a Rega Dac or buying 2 corner bass traps for the front of my room behind my speakers. My listening room is 22 feet long x 14 feet wide with a 16 foot ceiling.

http://www.whathifi.com/review/rega-dac

http://www.primacoustic.com/maxtrap.htm

[htsteve]

Spacemanrick,

Do the bass traps. Definite bang for your buck. I have an 11 X 16 room with 802D's. I put some Real Traps Mondo's in the corners behind the 802D's and immediate improvement occured.

I would consider the following:

2X Mondo Traps, $300 each.

2X RFZ Panels, $250 each. Covers the first point reflection. Although from your picture, there might be tight placement options.


You will love these improvements.



Hope this helps.

[Kal Rubinson]

Yes, and a non-reflecting throw on top of the coffee table.

[emig5m]

Hey SPACEMANRICK, didn't you have the 804S prior? I was wondering if you can sometime give me your impression of the 804S vs the 802Di since I'm kinda getting back into straight up 2-channel and interested in maybe the 802D or 802Di.

[dukester]

Yes, and a non-reflecting throw on top of the coffee table.

+1...(Re)moving the coffee table...biggest bang for the buck...

[stuofsci02]

Hey Spacemanrick,

It looks like you need help to spend money afterall

I agree about the room treatment, although for your room I might consider acoustic panels before the traps to eliminate reflection. WAF might be a problem unless done right.

I am in the process of building my on panels using OC 703. So far I have them all made, I just need to cover in micro suede or something similar. This would cost much less then $1000 if you are a little handy..

Cheers,

Stuart

[dukester]

Hey Spacemanrick,

It looks like you need help to spend money afterall

I agree about the room treatment, although for your room I might consider acoustic panels before the traps to eliminate reflection. WAF might be a problem unless done right.

I am in the process of building my on panels using OC 703. So far I have them all made, I just need to cover in micro suede or something similar. This would cost much less then $1000 if you are a little handy..

Cheers,

Stuart

Sorry to veer off but Stuart, hope you post pics...bet your basement is coming along well.

[stuofsci02]

Sorry to veer off but Stuart, hope you post pics...bet your basement is coming along well.

Will do!

Thanks,

Stuart

[mrciave]

Hi Spacemanrick,

long time I'm away from the forum... If I remember well you're the guy that posted pics of the listening room from the upper floor, meaning there's totally lots of air volume considering the room in the three dimensions. So I'd say maybe bass traps are not the first choice.

My 2 cents, I'd go for a good power cable for the CD player (if you don't have one yet), and Finite Elemente Cerapuc below the speakers.

The power cable should improve the level of detail, and make the sound more natural.

The feet for the speakers, should tighten up the bass, increase the dynamics and the low-level details. If you plan to stay on the rug, spikes are best. But I recommend the Cerapuc feet straight on the wood.

And remove the coffee table, that's for free. +1 to it.

Andrea

[SPACEMANRICK]

Just to give some more background, my music room is also our family room and we spend a lot of time reading, relaxing, and playing games in this room......5 feet behind my leather sofa is a piano that my daughter plays. Because we spend so much time in this room as a family I am somewhat limited from the WAF on what I can do to improve my listening experience. Thanks for the suggestion on moving the table, when I am listening for an extended period I do move the table out of the room and it does tighten up and eliminate the sound reflection from the table.

I was hoping that a little discrete black box like a Dac would offer the most improvement but it sounds like the larger, not so subtle, bass traps may offer more bang for the buck. I have noticed for some music that when the volume is increased to 95db or 100db I hear some bass muddiness and reverb from the lower bass. I assume that 2 bass taps in the corners behind the speakers will help with this. I am positive that my wife would not be on board having permanent bass traps in the corners but my thought would be to sit them in the corners when I listen to music and remove them and put them in the closet when I am finished listening or when company comes to visit.

Sorry to say Stuart I am a klutz when it comes to building anything, so building my own bass traps would not work and if they did they would be damn ugly 8O. I would also be interested in seeing your acoustic panels when they are complete.....will your panels absorb down to the lower frequencies? Maybe if the shipping costs are reasonable I could contract you to build me some :lol:

"2X RFZ Panels, $250 each. Covers the first point reflection. Although from your picture, there might be tight placement options." .....htsteve do you mean placing these over the windows behind my speakers or behind my sitting position on the sofa?

[SPACEMANRICK]

Hey SPACEMANRICK, didn't you have the 804S prior? I was wondering if you can sometime give me your impression of the 804S vs the 802Di since I'm kinda getting back into straight up 2-channel and interested in maybe the 802D or 802Di.

emig5m here is a link to the forum discussing the 804S to the 802DI....To sum it up they are both great speakers but if you can scrape together the extra cash they are definitely worth it :T Resale on the speakers is also very good so you can always sell them if you change your mind and not be out too much money.

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=38097&page=1&pp=35

[aarsoe]

I know you said your budget is around 1K, but my advise would be to save a bit more and exchange your power amp. All respect for Cambridge, but not in the same class as your speakers. Think you will find that a bigger amp that is able to handle the lad better will open up your speakers a lot more than anything else..

[alebonau]

yes I'd say upgrade the pre and power amps as well if can.

just looking at the pics very hard to see, and have a lovely room but the speakers look a tad too close for the listening distance ?

ie they could be moved a bit apart for benefit of the sound stage ?

also the lounge chair inbetween the speakers right in the middle of the sound stage ?

even if dont spend a $1000, would consider playing around with speaker placement if not something tried as yet.

postion positon position is critical with speakers. mess up the positioning and no amount of room treatment and eq etc can fix things up. so any improvement gained in postion will pay huge dividends and any money spent on treatments, equipmetn etc will only bring additional benefit on top.

could also consider postioning along the long dimension of the room if too narrow way you have it. will give you more width and perhaps enough depth to achieve what could be a pretty good result

[ninja12]

SPACEMANRICK,

You have a very nice looking room. I have to agree with most of the other posters. You will get the biggest bang for your buck with room treatments and proper speaker placement. No equipment in the world will give you a better return on your investment then room treatments. You definitely have to do something about that table. It's definitely causing you to have some reflection issues based on its' position. I don't know if you can get some artful bass traps; but, I do know that you can get some artful panels to cover the first reflection points that would blend with your room very nicely.

We all have to make compromises and live with what we have. So, I would suggest that you do what's acceptable between you and your wife.

[Briz vegas]

Yeah but........
What do you want to change about the sound? What isn't working for you.

Looking at my system and thinking what cost a grand and gave most improvement. The answer is definitely the room treatments, if you can negotiate an acceptable outcome. Thing is my room wasn't pretty to start with, yours is really nice. You need to do some careful thinking and consultation. If you guys are reading types I would be thinking of some smart corner book shelf/ display cabinets. Probably not a grand, but not grounds for divorce either.

The second thing that comes to mind is problematic to recommend. Problematic because I had already implemented room treatments and spent as much on c----s as you have on speakers. It was a qbase power strip. Huge benefit to every component. Power is really important in my experience and I am still finding the adding more in this area gives me more detail, greater separation of intruments, greater dynamics. The Qbase is a product that seems to win over every person who has tried it so far (in our audio club at least).my only caution is that my system is the benefit of alot mor refinements than yours. There is a real risk that the other factors will mean the the benefits will not be as great. What you need is to borrow a Qbase tomake sure the benefits will be as obvious. I ever had 2 Qbase in series on my source this year for a week and the PRAT was totally addictive and the system just begged to be turned up. It's an expensive power strip but it's so much more.

[dukester]

"2X RFZ Panels, $250 each. Covers the first point reflection. Although from your picture, there might be tight placement options." .....htsteve do you mean placing these over the windows behind my speakers or behind my sitting position on the sofa?[/QUOTE]

I believe he is referring to the walls to the sides of your speakers. However First Reflection Points can also be floors and ceilings. Since your ceiling is so high and you have a thick carpet, your walls are the concern, IMO.

To find your first reflection point, see:

http://www.realtraps.com/rfz.htm

I did not want to mention an amp upgrade since your budget is $1k however doubling my amp power was an enormous upgrade. Although a substantial increase in your budget, I would definitely put an amp upgrade atop your list asap to fully appreciate your 802Di's.

[htsteve]

"2X RFZ Panels, $250 each. Covers the first point reflection. Although from your picture, there might be tight placement options." .....htsteve do you mean placing these over the windows behind my speakers or behind my sitting position on the sofa?

I believe he is referring to the walls to the sides of your speakers. However First Reflection Points can also be floors and ceilings. Since your ceiling is so high and you have a thick carpet, your walls are the concern, IMO.

Spacemanrick,

This is exactly what I meant. The side walls. Also, I believe the Realtraps come in a tan color that might blend well. They also have a more decor friendly line, see below.

http://www.realtraps.com/p_guilford.htm

Also, I like your idea of placing traps in the corners and removing them when warranted. Most Real Traps can come with stands that make this a real possibility. My bass traps are on stands.


Hope this helps.

[stuofsci02]

Spacemanrick,

I may have enough materials left over to build an extra four 4' x 2' panels. Here are some pics of two of the panels. All they need now is to be wrapped in fabric or microsuede or even artwork.

[SPACEMANRICK]

Stuart, I can definitely see that you come from an engineering background.....those panels are very professional and clean looking! Do you know if your acoustic panels will absorb the deep bass in the corners of the room like the dedicated bass traps from Realtraps or Primacoustics? I am planning for now to first have maybe only 2 bass traps in the front corners to minimize the impact on room aesthetics and also to minimize the hassle moving the room treatment in and out of the room.

Alternatively, when I see your acoustic panels I think that they would be great in a dedicated music room in my basement along with corner bass traps. I have a finished room about 15 feet x 20 feet with 7 foot ceilings in my basement that I never use except to workout on our elliptical machine 3 or 4 times a week. This basement music room could be set up however I want with no potential style or decor clashes with my wife. Realistically though..... I spend most of my time now upstairs and it would be a shame to have to leave the family to go down by myself to the basement to listen to my music.

Based on reputation alone I would lean towards the Realtraps Mondotraps but then I have to deal with shipping and brokerage, the Primacoustics factory is a 5 minute drive from my house so I am leaning towards buying from them. I do also like that the Mondotrpaps are 57” high compared to the Primacoustics Maxtrap’s 48” height, but for convenience (and to support the local guy) I may just go and buy from Primacoustics. I may even try to see if I can borrow for a few hours 2 corner Primacoustics Maxtrap’s from the factory to confirm just how they will improve the sound of my music room.

New amps are out of the question for now..... life is give and take and I took a fair chunk 6 months ago when I bought the speakers and amps so I have no qualms letting my wife spend a bit of money for a family holiday or however else she pleases

[htsteve]

Spacemanrick,

Seeing if you can borrow a couple of panels from Primacoustics is a great idea. Also, supporting a local business is good. I totoally understand.

You might ask them if thier panels can be stand mounted, or if they have any ideas in that regard.

[ninja12]

life is give and take and I took a fair chunk 6 months ago when I bought the speakers and amps so I have no qualms letting my wife spend a bit of money for a family holiday or however else she pleases

Awwwwww......Very Smart Man!!!!!!! :T

[HedgeHog]

Spacemanrick,

Is Primacoustic willing to sell direct to you? They told me I had to go through a dealer. Anyway, if you are planning on getting their stuff, count me in...perhaps, we can get a little discount with quantity.

FWIW, the dealer I went through gave a small discount on my last order.

-H

[stuofsci02]

Stuart, I can definitely see that you come from an engineering background.....those panels are very professional and clean looking! Do you know if your acoustic panels will absorb the deep bass in the corners of the room like the dedicated bass traps from Realtraps or Primacoustics? I am planning for now to first have maybe only 2 bass traps in the front corners to minimize the impact on room aesthetics and also to minimize the hassle moving the room treatment in and out of the room.

Alternatively, when I see your acoustic panels I think that they would be great in a dedicated music room in my basement along with corner bass traps. I have a finished room about 15 feet x 20 feet with 7 foot ceilings in my basement that I never use except to workout on our elliptical machine 3 or 4 times a week. This basement music room could be set up however I want with no potential style or decor clashes with my wife. Realistically though..... I spend most of my time now upstairs and it would be a shame to have to leave the family to go down by myself to the basement to listen to my music.

Based on reputation alone I would lean towards the Realtraps Mondotraps but then I have to deal with shipping and brokerage, the Primacoustics factory is a 5 minute drive from my house so I am leaning towards buying from them. I do also like that the Mondotrpaps are 57” high compared to the Primacoustics Maxtrap’s 48” height, but for convenience (and to support the local guy) I may just go and buy from Primacoustics. I may even try to see if I can borrow for a few hours 2 corner Primacoustics Maxtrap’s from the factory to confirm just how they will improve the sound of my music room.

New amps are out of the question for now..... life is give and take and I took a fair chunk 6 months ago when I bought the speakers and amps so I have no qualms letting my wife spend a bit of money for a family holiday or however else she pleases

Spacemanrick,

My panels are 2" thick with another 1.5" air gap behind. With this construction they will be very linear for absorbing 250 Hz and up, with the best absorbtion at 500 Hz. At 125 Hz they will only absorb 1/4th as much as they will at 250 Hz.

If you really want to get that deeper bass you need thicker. If I made my panels at 4" thick they would be better bass traps.

I had the same problem as you. I couldn't make my upstairs living room a sound rooms. In the end I built a HT room in the basement (18'w x 24 'long). For upstairs I picked up a set of CM7 used for $900. They are plenty good for casual listening with the family.

Cheers!

Stuart

[SPACEMANRICK]

Spacemanrick,

Is Primacoustic willing to sell direct to you? They told me I had to go through a dealer. Anyway, if you are planning on getting their stuff, count me in...perhaps, we can get a little discount with quantity.

FWIW, the dealer I went through gave a small discount on my last order.

-H

Hedgehog, I have talked to Primacoustics and you are correct they will not sell direct to the consumer. I have been in touch with a retailer and I will send you a private message.........

[SPACEMANRICK]

Spacemanrick,

My panels are 2" thick with another 1.5" air gap behind. With this construction they will be very linear for absorbing 250 Hz and up, with the best absorbtion at 500 Hz. At 125 Hz they will only absorb 1/4th as much as they will at 250 Hz.

If you really want to get that deeper bass you need thicker. If I made my panels at 4" thick they would be better bass traps.

I had the same problem as you. I couldn't make my upstairs living room a sound rooms. In the end I built a HT room in the basement (18'w x 24 'long). For upstairs I picked up a set of CM7 used for $900. They are plenty good for casual listening with the family.

Cheers!

Stuart

I have been thinking more about the dedicated system in the basement and see the merits but for now I am spending too much time upstairs to justify the move downstairs. If I ever did make the move downstairs though that would be the most awesome sounding sound system in any gym in the area ;x(

[SPACEMANRICK]

Stuart, I have sent you a private message about your current system setup.....