How much off MSRP for 802DI dealer demo?

[SPACEMANRICK]

I have ordered my 802DI speakers from my dealer but found out yesterday unfortunately that they are on back order and should be here in Vancouver hopefully about 1 month. Before I ordered my new 802DI speakers my dealer had suggested that I could buy his demo units at a discounted price.

The MSRP for the 802DI is $16,500 in Canada. How much of a price reduction would be reasonable from my original order price if I were to buy his demo unit instead of waiting for the new unit to arrive in 1 month? I assume that the 802DI's arrived in Canada probably around March or April 2010 so the demo in the showroom is probably about 1 year old.....are there any concerns in buying a demo unit? Should the full new warranty apply to the demo unit?

[htsteve]

SPACEMANRICK,

When I have bought delaer demo's, the warranty kicks in from the time you purchase them. So even if these units are a year old, you should be covered.

As for discount, I recall it averages around 20%. It maybe a little more or less depending on the dealer, how recent the equipment is, competition in area, economic conditions, etc. It's been awhile since I've purchased B&W demo sepakers, so things might have changed.

Are the dealer demos's the same color you ordered?

Hope this helps.

[SPACEMANRICK]

Thanks Steve, yes the dealer demo unit is the same cherry color that I ordered. My thought would be to perhaps offer $1,000 less for the demo which works out to another 5.4% off the MSRP before taxes.

The other option is to just wait for a month or so :evil:

[stuofsci02]

Spacemanrick,

I always ask for the demo units. They are the ones that I listened to at the store so I know exactly how they sound. They are also broken in already with good gear.

As far as discount is concerned it all depends on situation. If he wants to get rid of them then you should be able to get a better discount. If he just needs to order a new set to replace them which will mean his without his demos for 2 months then the discount might be smaller (or none).

I was told by my dealer here in Toronto area that Cherry does not sell well at all and so he cannot have any demos in cherry. Rosewood sells the best. Then he mentioned that dealers in BC sell mostly Cherry and get almost all their demos in Cherry.. I thought that strange, but it is sounding more true by the minute.

Cheers!

[SPACEMANRICK]

I figure the demo speakers have been in the showroom for probably 6 to 8 months and are barely broken in (assuming 1 or 2 hours playing time a day). When I came back for the second listening session he told me to please not turn the volume too loud so I also assume they have not been driven very hard or abused.

The dealer will be without the 802DI's as a demo until the new unit arrives but I guess from a business cash flow perspective he will have my cash 30 days earlier if I buy his demo unit.

Funny about the cherry's being popular here and not in Ontario. I think they are both great colors but it is just that the cherry matches our hardwood floor better.

I will talk to the dealer later today and decide based on what additional discount he can offer......

[scanido]

Good luck. I was only able to get 12% off mine, basically tax in! They are "hot" items right now, hence the back order. The Piano Blacks were really back ordered late last year. Had to wait almost month and a half for mine.

[style]

8O 8O

sorry but a demo speaker, with a 6 months "life" 35% discount!

SPACEMANRICK, I have purchase a new 803DI , no demo, unopen,.... with 23% discount! and like wrote new!


your dealer muss give you a great price!
if you with a new 802di how much give as discount???

style

[SPACEMANRICK]

Good luck. I was only able to get 12% off mine, basically tax in! They are "hot" items right now, hence the back order. The Piano Blacks were really back ordered late last year. Had to wait almost month and a half for mine.

I just talked to the dealer no further discount for buying the demo.....it is going to be a cold and dark time waiting for the next month for them to arrive :cry:

[SPACEMANRICK]

8O 8O

sorry but a demo speaker, with a 6 months "life" 35% discount!

SPACEMANRICK, I have purchase a new 803DI , no demo, unopen,.... with 23% discount! and like wrote new!


your dealer muss give you a great price!
if you with a new 802di how much give as discount???

style

All I can say Style, is you got a great deal and I am very happy with my deal also.....Enjoy the beautiful music :T

[stuofsci02]

I would not compare the discount Style got to what you got. Pricing in Europe is much different then here. Unless you know his MSRP you cannot compare.

Why do you not want the floor models? Is there something wrong with them?

[Rod#S]

Too bad about not being able to get an additional discount. For a demo unit I would think something in the 20%ish range wouldn't be unreasonable expecially if the speakers are almost a year old but maybe the dealer is looking at it with respect to the warranty, he still has to honor a 5 year warranty from the time the speaker is sold so you would not be losing basically a year's worth of warranty.

[scanido]

I would not compare the discount Style got to what you got. Pricing in Europe is much different then here. Unless you know his MSRP you cannot compare.

Why do you not want the floor models? Is there something wrong with them?

I could totally understand that if the price is the same for a new pair vs a demo pair I would still opt for the new pair. Although the demos maybe cosmetically/functionally perfect, the real experience of opening brand new pair is worth the wait! If there is further discounting than that's a different story.

[Rod#S]

8O 8O

sorry but a demo speaker, with a 6 months "life" 35% discount!

SPACEMANRICK, I have purchase a new 803DI , no demo, unopen,.... with 23% discount! and like wrote new!


your dealer muss give you a great price!
if you with a new 802di how much give as discount???

style

:E A 23% discount would be amazing but here in Canada those numbers don't appear to be in the cards, at least not in my area which is a relatively small area. It may be a different story in the larger cities acorss Canada with multiple B&W dealers but I reckon the amount to ship the speakers would cancel out the difference in any savings.

[stuofsci02]

If the MSRP is $16,500 in Canada then that translate to 12,000 EURO. Something tells me 802Di in Switzerland is not 12k EURO. So 23% may be possible but if the starting price is higher then the point is moot.

As far as getting 20% off because they have been used gently at the store is really a supply/demand questions. Since we already know the dealer will need a new set of demos and there is currently no supply available I don't think a heavy discount is in order.

The only question for Spaceman to ask himself is: Is having a brand new unopened pair worth the month long wait? If it was me... Probably not... Life is too short to give up a month of 802Di time. Speakers don't get used up. If they are in mint condition then what more could you want.

And I assume the dealer is delivering them and setting them up for you as part of the deal, so you wouldn't even be cutting the tape on the boxes yourself.

Just my 2 cents.

[wettou]

As demo you should ask for 25% off at least

[stuofsci02]

You guys and your 25% are crazy ... These are on backorder...

[wettou]

You guys and your 25% are crazy ... These are on backorder...

Well it all depends how motivated the dealer is, we are talking used here!

[stuofsci02]

Well in this case the dealer has already sold him new and has offered these as an alternative to waiting. So the only motivation would be to get the OPs money 1 month sooner, but is that really worth $4000.

And you say they are used, but that is not entirely true. The warranty starts new for the buyer, so its not like buying them privately. So really the only difference is maybe a couple of hundred hours on them.

[jeepers]

If the MSRP is $16,500 in Canada then that translate to 12,000 EURO. Something tells me 802Di in Switzerland is not 12k EURO. So 23% may be possible but if the starting price is higher then the point is moot.

The price in Europe for the 802Di is 14,000 EURO.

[emig5m]

I could totally understand that if the price is the same for a new pair vs a demo pair I would still opt for the new pair. Although the demos maybe cosmetically/functionally perfect, the real experience of opening brand new pair is worth the wait! If there is further discounting than that's a different story.

^ What he said. When I originally bought my 683's they where the floor demo units and it was kinda bugging me out that my front mains where always floor demos yet the rest of my speakers where bought brand new. Not to mention some grill posts where broken off and there was a couple light scuffs on the side of the cabinet (which I was able to polish out, but still). Dealer was cool about me giving back the demos even though I had them for over a few weeks. I had to pay $100 on top of what I paid for the demos, but I was actually willing to pay more to have the ability to give back the demos for brand new ones. Got to use the demos until the new ones came in and everything.

Now 802Di's? Well that's some serious money to accept store demos for the same price as brand new IMO. I would have to inspect every square inch to make sure there where no scratches. Now I have a confession to make, the first time I walked into a B&W dealer seven years before I actually bought B&W myself, my friend walks up to the N801 and starts playing with the aluminum tweeter tube - he starts turning and twisting it! So you really never know 100% what's happened to speakers that's been out and in the open in a store.

Yea it would be nice to have them a month sooner, but like I said, that's some serious money to accept the same price for "used" speakers. My dealer was the same way with not adding more discount to demo speakers which was shocking because his 685's appeared to be dropped before and the corners where all mashed in. IMO the poor shape of those speakers should of been like 40% off, or more... but he wouldn't drop lower on the price over new ones! 8O

[stuofsci02]

Yes.. I agree, if the speakers are damaged or not perfect in any way. At my dealer the 800 series speakers are in their own room and you can't just go in there to browse. So no reason to worry about abuse.

But to each their own. For me a speaker isn't something that can be used up, only damaged. If it is not damaged then no problem.

[SPACEMANRICK]

I am pretty meticulous with my things and a little blemish or scratch would bother me on the speakers so I am a little wary of the demo unit. I am a little peeved because when I was transferring my ASW CM subwoofer back to the car from my dealer's showroom I banged it in my trunk and there is now a 1/8" ding in the corner that I now always notice when I walk by.

I know the dealer has been very fair with his pricing to me for the new speakers but I would still expect some kind of concession for the 8 month old demo 802DI's. I will see how the wait goes and I want the speakers ASAP but in the grand scheme of things I think I can wait 1 month if there is no concession on the demo speakers....

[dukester]

I will see how the wait goes and I want the speakers ASAP but in the grand scheme of things I think I can wait 1 month if there is no concession on the demo speakers....

I agree...in this hobby and my experiences, not much good has come from me trying to rush things.

I remember auditioning the 802Di's; mids & tweets were very familiar but very surprised by the prodigious yet tight bass...Wow. Congrats!

[style]

@SPACEMANRICK
well, in Switzerland in not in Euros the price vut in CHF. and if you go see the change chf. vs. Euros you go crazy !!
in euro. 14000.- in Switzerland wa CHf. 21000!!! now B&W have "adjusted" the price and we have CHF. 19000.- for a new 802di....
yes the Usa market is very differente vs. the Europa market is too true what wettou say:

Well it all depends how motivated the dealer is, we are talking used here

:T

over the paper a B&W/Classe dealer can no more at the 6& discount for the products od the brand: more can be a big problem -> be no more a B&W dealer!

for the demo 802di if are Ok (no damage, all is Ok and warranty is allready
good you can have a speaker with "little" work time (I dont know from you much we speak..) and you have the proof that they work very fine.

is too possible receive a unopened speaker and wenn you are at home surprise!: the tweeter dont work, the cabinet have a "scratch".... :cry:

what do you think???

style

sorry the color is cherry correct? you like this color?

[SPACEMANRICK]

My dealer told me the same thing, that if a dealer was giving too much in discounts they could jeopardize their dealership agreement with B&W. I am not sure how true that is but it does seem to support what others have been saying on this forum.

Yes, I have chosen the cherry color for the speakers and that is the same color as the demo unit.

Yes, that would be an extreme disappointment to wait for a month for my speakers only to have them opened at my house with damage...I hope and assume the chances of that happening are very small. The amps should come in to Vancouver in 1 week and I will discuss further with my dealer at that point the possibility of any possible incentives for purchasing the demo unit.

[Skyblue]

My dealer told me the same thing, that if a dealer was giving too much in discounts they could jeopardize their dealership agreement with B&W. I am not sure how true that is but it does seem to support what others have been saying on this forum.

Yes, I have chosen the cherry color for the speakers and that is the same color as the demo unit.

Yes, that would be an extreme disappointment to wait for a month for my speakers only to have them opened at my house with damage...I hope and assume the chances of that happening are very small. The amps should come in to Vancouver in 1 week and I will discuss further with my dealer at that point the possibility of any possible incentives for purchasing the demo unit.

My dealer said the same thing. Giving discounts can (and will) loose you B&W business. I got some nevertheless. But not much.

I dont think the chance of getting a new but broken speaker is something to consider. It might happen. On the other hand, you might get run over as well. I say wait a month, get your new speakers and enjoy undressing them all by your self. Consider that you might have theses for 10-20 years. Whats one month more or less?

[style]

My dealer told me the same thing, that if a dealer was giving too much in discounts they could jeopardize their dealership agreement with B&W. I am not sure how true that is but it does seem to support what others have been saying on this forum.

is treu, is true!!
B&W official say at the dealer that the max discount can be at the 6%: if the dealer go make more % and sell a lot of speakers and B&W make a little investigation the this dealer go say goodbey at the BW product!
each time that a you go buy a speaker the dealer if make more discount (10-20-?!?%) dont send any mail a the consumers! only per phine or better face to face!!!

Rolex, IWC, JeagerLeCoultre go make the same "game" with our "delaers".

Style

[Cruxis]

I just recently applied for a Magnolia Audio Video credit card. When I received it , also included was a certificate for a 10% discount on purchases of $499 or more. In fine print below, it listed all the brands that were excluded. B&W wasn't listed, so I'm assuming that the discount would extend to them.

[Rod#S]

I just recently applied for a Magnolia Audio Video credit card. When I received it , also included was a certificate for a 10% discount on purchases of $499 or more. In fine print below, it listed all the brands that were excluded. B&W wasn't listed, so I'm assuming that the discount would extend to them.

10%, nice!

[dukester]

The way my dealer put it, if a dealer moves a lot of product, B&W gives more leeway on discounts and just as important, access to inventory (probably pertaining more to the 802/800's). He moves inventory to the point where he had to call me to audition sets as buyers were waiting in line. I called his bluff more than once and lost out on a few audtions. Needless to say I don't have to haggle too much anymore with my dealer as he routinely offers 10-30% right off the bat.

[style]

Sorry SPACEMANRICK,

you have decide? you go with the 802di in cherry?

the electronics what will be?

stereo or HT?

ths Style

[SPACEMANRICK]

Sorry SPACEMANRICK,

you have decide? you go with the 802di in cherry?

the electronics what will be?

stereo or HT?

ths Style

Hi Style, I am old fashioned and will only listen to 2 channel music on this system so no home theater. I find I listen to music more to just relax and our TV is in another room and I prefer to keep these separate.

I have chosen the 802DI in cherry as well as the Cambridge 840W 200 watt amp and the Cambridge 840E preamp.

[SPACEMANRICK]

My dealer said the same thing. Giving discounts can (and will) loose you B&W business. I got some nevertheless. But not much.

I dont think the chance of getting a new but broken speaker is something to consider. It might happen. On the other hand, you might get run over as well. I say wait a month, get your new speakers and enjoy undressing them all by your self. Consider that you might have theses for 10-20 years. Whats one month more or less?

Great line Skyblue....sometimes the wait and anticipation is half the fun but also sometimes it is so darn hard to wait!

[realhifi]

Hi Style, I am old fashioned and will only listen to 2 channel music on this system so no home theater. I find I listen to music more to just relax and our TV is in another room and I prefer to keep these separate.

I have chosen the 802DI in cherry as well as the Cambridge 840W 200 watt amp and the Cambridge 840E preamp.

Great speakers. Congratulations! I'm assuming you are getting the electronics form the same dealer? Have you had a chance to audition those with the 802's? Not bad electronics but....you might want to give a listen to a few more things in the same price range first. I'm assuming you are going with those because of budget and I can't blame you after paying for those 802's! But, think for a bit before jumping into anything as far as what will be a good match for those. I have heard a number of good integrated amps that I would wayyy rather listen to on those speakers than the Cambridge stuff and could hold you over better until you make the jump to the electronics those speakers deserve.

[SPACEMANRICK]

Great speakers. Congratulations! I'm assuming you are getting the electronics form the same dealer? Have you had a chance to audition those with the 802's? Not bad electronics but....you might want to give a listen to a few more things in the same price range first. I'm assuming you are going with those because of budget and I can't blame you after paying for those 802's! But, think for a bit before jumping into anything as far as what will be a good match for those. I have heard a number of good integrated amps that I would wayyy rather listen to on those speakers than the Cambridge stuff and could hold you over better until you make the jump to the electronics those speakers deserve.

Thanks for the input realhifi, yes I have heard the 802D's with the Cambridge amp and preamp and they sounded great to my ears for now. I am sure there may be better (and more expensive) electronics that I can pair with the speakers but for now my budget is stretched as it is. I think the 200 watts from the 840w Cambridge amp will be a good start for me.

As discussed above, B&W dealers have to be careful with the discounts they give on their speakers but their is no limit to discounts that Cambridge allows it's dealers to give. The net effect is I am happy with the discount that the dealer gave me on the 802DI speakers and even happier with the discount the dealer gave me on my Cambrdige 840w amp and 840e preamp :T

[emig5m]

Why does B&W even care if their dealers give discounts as long as it comes out of the pocket of the dealer and not B&W and product is being pushed and dealers are making sales? There must be something I'm not understanding with being so strict about offering discounts and penalizing dealers who do? My uncle is a very good salesman, very good... So good that he's wanted by many of his competitors businesses to be hired as a salesman for them. As a successful salesman he's the first to tell me "that a half a loaf of bread is better than no loaf at all...." His exact words meaning to me that when I try to make a sale I loose so many potential sales because of being too greedy all the time trying to get the top dollar for every single job! Job per job I can make twice the profit as my uncle can, but my uncle books nine times as many jobs as me and makes six digits a year where I make a fart in the wind compared to him! Yea, I should start taking his advice! :rofl:

[garak]

They are trying to protect the image/market position of the 800 series as a premium brand. Their thinking is if they allow excessive discounting, it will diminish that position.

[stuofsci02]

Yep,

For a lot of people in this hobby, the prestige has a lot to do with the cost and accessibility of the product to other people.

Now I would expect discounting to much more prevalent in the entry level speakers like the 600 series where B&W want to gain market share and hook people to the brand. But when it comes to their elite brand (like the 800 series) they want to maintain that elitism mentality.

As far as I know B&W still has backorder on alot of the new 800 series stuff and so doing this isn't really cutting into their bottom line. Perhaps when they have more stock they will relax a little.

[Skyblue]

Yep,

For a lot of people in this hobby, the prestige has a lot to do with the cost and accessibility of the product to other people.

Now I would expect discounting to much more prevalent in the entry level speakers like the 600 series where B&W want to gain market share and hook people to the brand. But when it comes to their elite brand (like the 800 series) they want to maintain that elitism mentality.

As far as I know B&W still has backorder on alot of the new 800 series stuff and so doing this isn't really cutting into their bottom line. Perhaps when they have more stock they will relax a little.

You can also see it as a way to ensure fair prices for all. If one customer buys a pair of 802's for $15.000 they prolly wont like to hear the neigbor got them for $8.000? I surely wouldnt...

[stuofsci02]

You can also see it as a way to ensure fair prices for all. If one customer buys a pair of 802's for $15.000 they prolly wont like to hear the neigbor got them for $8.000? I surely wouldnt...

True, but this does not seem to be a problem in automobile market, or in all markets in some countries. I love Monty Python - The Life Of Brian, where a street vendor won't sell him a Gourd because he didn't haggle and accepted asking price.

I think people expect to haggle for big ticket items, and understand that other might be able to get a better deal then them.

[wettou]

Its all about giving dealer enough margins to stay in business, B&W also makes a very good profit.

$15,000 MSRP
- Dealer margins $7000 - $6000
- B&W Margins $3000
- Net cost to manufacture $3000,
now if it was made in China it would be $1000

Customer pays for the privilege to to have dealers demo the product :lol: That is why some direct to consumer brands are so successful.

[Rod#S]

You can also see it as a way to ensure fair prices for all. If one customer buys a pair of 802's for $15.000 they prolly wont like to hear the neigbor got them for $8.000? I surely wouldnt...

Me neither... sharpens pitch fork! :B

[stuofsci02]

Its all about giving dealer enough margins to stay in business, B&W also makes a very good profit.

$15,000 MSRP
- Dealer margins $7000 - $6000
- B&W Margins $3000
- Net cost to manufacture $3000,
now if it was made in China it would be $1000

Customer pays for the privilege to to have dealers demo the product :lol: That is why some direct to consumer brands are so successful.

Are these number based on fact or just a guess?

[Skyblue]

Are these number based on fact or just a guess?

I dont know B&W's margin but the dealer margin seems about right.

Edit: Its a pretty normal markup. Many goods you buy cost the dealer half of what you pay.

You got to remember that the dealer has a lot of money invested in stock, the store and educated employees. Sometimes they make a lot of money. Sometimes they dont.

[realhifi]

I dont know B&W's margin but the dealer margin seems about right.

Edit: Its a pretty normal markup. Many goods you buy cost the dealer half of what you pay.

You got to remember that the dealer has a lot of money invested in stock, the store and educated employees. Sometimes they make a lot of money. Sometimes they dont.

Not so with B&W or many higher end hifi companies. Half is dreaming.
As far as making money....not many are doing a lot of that right now.