Help plan oneplustwo's listening room/home theatre/family room/

[TEK]

If you are referring to a quite newly defined standard, and not just to 2 subwoofers instead of 1, then that might have some implications that I'm not aware of.
In general my understanding is that there is nothing that actually is called .2, in the meaning that 7.1 indicates the number of sound signals carried in the sound signal where one signal (.1) is a LFE channel while 7 channels are 2 front, 1 center and 4 surround signals.

People like myself, and from what it seems - you, often use .2, .3 and so on to indicate the number of subwoofers installed in the playback system - however there are still just one signal source.

This also corresponds with what I see on my receiver - where I have to subwoofer outputs, but there are only one signal that is corrected.

In this regard, a y cabel should be perfectly OK (I think you may loose some gain, and therefor might have to apply a bit more sound level to each sub).
However, as the sub's interacts with the room in different way's and also affect each other as well as might have different performance, it might be useful to apply some room correction to each of the sub's individually.
Often this can also be addressed in an early phase by ensuring that you are placing your sub's in the locations where they performs their best.


"mount them facing opposite each other"
I would only do this if there are very good reasons for doing it. You have the risk that the sub's will cancel each other out.
For example, what do you do if you want to burn in a speaker but don't want to hear all the noise? You place two speakers right against each other so that their cancel each other out...
I did search a bit at dobly's, but they had very little on dual subwoofers.
These folks are pretty into subwoofers, so I think they should know what they are talking about: http://www.svsound.com/t/why-go-dual
They write:
1) on the front stage in the corners
2) on the front stage at the 1/3 wall points (basically flanking the center channel near each main speaker)
3) at the mid-point of the front and back wall.
Option 3 is usually a non-starter...

In general - if you are construction a new room - you might want to check out some guidelines regarding speaker placement. I think this is a good place to start:

http://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/surround-sound-speaker-setup/index.html

[kevinm]

IF you go the IB route, a standard iNuke + Mini DSP capabilities will be plenty for EQ. However, if you want more flexibility in design (separate enclosures down the road, maybe add more, etc...), I would get the iNuke with DSP.

It's DSP capabilities are quite handy - not quite as robust as MiniDSP's, but they are more than enough for things like basic PEQ and time alignment.

[oneplustwo]

I'll probably get the DSP version since it's not much more. Is the 3000 overkill? Seems like more than enough headroom and it's not that much more. I assume I'll run in bridged mode with the woofers wired in series for a 4 ohm load? Not sure how that works with the DVC.

Also, here's a basic schematic of what I was thinking for the AV "rack" and how the subs would mount. Basically, the two subs would face each other with a grill covering the opening to the front. On the driver sides, they would be open to the rear obviously, probably will a grill as well since it goes into the garage which may be dusty.

[dar47]

Looks like your having fun planning.

Not sure if your Stereo Integrity 18's are the dual 2ohm voice coil drivers but bridging an IB just adds distortion which is kind of counter to IB's very low distortion concept. If your running the iNuke 3000 usually 1 side of the amp for each driver. If you want to add another manifold placed else where just get another 3000. Another thing to note is the DSP version is only filtering 20Hrz and up. If you want to eq below 20hrz you should look at other dsp and just get the amp version. That kind of brings up the other question are you interested in below 20Hrz performance as that takes more power and you will need measurement gear capable of measuring below 20hrz. Tuning that thing starts with readings in the manifold, then at near field then at seating position. Check in at the Cult, http://ibsubwoofers.proboards.com/ it will help with your planning and help you focus on the kind of performance target you want to hit. Since you have a space behind the rack you can locate the not so pretty pro gear back there and just trigger it when needed. You will find after your tuned you don't really change much on the eq side. If you go with the Inuke dsp it is usb to a notebook which is convenient when the amp is located in the back room.

Have fun and keep showing us your progress!

[oneplustwo]

Yes, I have the dual voice coil 2 ohm drivers. I'm planning on miniDSP which only goes to 20Hz via PEQ but I think you can go lower with biquad programming from what I read. And I also plan on only using 5 surround channels so I *think* I can have a second sub output. Otherwise, I'll just Y the one sub channel to the two amp inputs and I suppose wire each channel to the voice coils in series for a 4 ohm load. I'll read more about the power requirements below 20Hz and see if I really want that in the first place and if so what power requirements to shop for. The room is only 12'Wx20'Lx8'H and I have neighbors on the other side of the wall so the 3000 may be a good place to start. Especially given my Pass F5 is only about 25W into 8 ohms. The line arrays are supposed to be pretty sensitive though so we'll see if that's ok or if I need to plug my Aleph X's into them!

Looks like your having fun planning.

Not sure if your Stereo Integrity 18's are the dual 2ohm voice coil drivers but bridging an IB just adds distortion which is kind of counter to IB's very low distortion concept. If your running the iNuke 3000 usually 1 side of the amp for each driver. If you want to add another manifold placed else where just get another 3000. Another thing to note is the DSP version is only filtering 20Hrz and up. If you want to eq below 20hrz you should look at other dsp and just get the amp version. That kind of brings up the other question are you interested in below 20Hrz performance as that takes more power and you will need measurement gear capable of measuring below 20hrz. Tuning that thing starts with readings in the manifold, then at near field then at seating position. Check in at the Cult, http://ibsubwoofers.proboards.com/ it will help with your planning and help you focus on the kind of performance target you want to hit. Since you have a space behind the rack you can locate the not so pretty pro gear back there and just trigger it when needed. You will find after your tuned you don't really change much on the eq side. If you go with the Inuke dsp it is usb to a notebook which is convenient when the amp is located in the back room.

Have fun and keep showing us your progress!

[dar47]

Sounds like you got it covered, I have 2 outputs off my pre-pro but Y cable should be fine as long as your source spit is enough for the pro amp. I have the same drivers with the 300 Inuke DSP in a 16'x8'x35' room and I could bust windows if I wanted too. I only have 1db of gain between 30 and 35 Hrz so I'm not boosting the bottom end at all. If you get a chance to measured or listened to a box sub placed in your proposed location, it could give an indication of how much eq you may require with the IB and show any large nulls at your seating position associated with your chosen manifold position. If you can't test and have to roll with that position it's at the center of the front stage and should be workable though.

[kevinm]

I would recommend the 3000. In my experience, the headroom will be well worth it.

As you mentioned, there are a few tricks to EQ below the 20hz barrier on iNukes - I personally use a shelf filter to boost below 25hz by 4 db.

Another nice feature is the dynamic EQ. Dynamic EQ lets you apply a limiter/EQ based on level. So you could have your subs put a limit on 20hz and below when you hit -10db on the amp levels. A nice extra layer of protection.

[oneplustwo]

Thanks for the input. The miniDSP site has a pretty good section on bass management but it's all sort of academic for me at the moment and doesn't necessarily address the intricacies of infinite baffle subs. I think it's probably very similar, but if you have any resources worth reading, let me know. Thanks!

[oneplustwo]

Some of you may have seen that I'm taking on an NCore build. That got me thinking about the rest of the setup and I'm starting to waver on if I really want a 5.1 setup or if a two channel will be good enough. The issue is that I can't seem to figure out how to get both optimized together in a cost effective manner. And the simplicity of just going from a source to a miniDSP to the line arrays and IB subs is appealing. It sounds like multi-channel sources will incorporate the LFE signal into the L/R channels in some cases. And I don't know if I really care all that much about the surround and center channels.

Another thought is to just get a mid-range integrated AVR to control everything for movies and swap out the more critical two channel stuff for just music. Probably don't even need the subs from my understanding of how low the corner loaded arrays can go.

Thoughts?

[dar47]

Come on, you can have your cake and eat it too! haha.

I had family watching movies and started with 7.1 but over time incorporated 2.1 for music (my priority). Nothing says you can't start with 2.1 with your lines and an IB. You can added a pre-amp with home theater bypass, then a receiver or pre-pro if you already have amps for 7 channels. The good thing is after your 2.1 is done you can just add a receiver and center, then surrounds it can all come over time and anytime your happy just stop. It is better just starting with 2.1 (cheaper).

[oneplustwo]

Can you share what your setup is? And if you have any thoughts as to what you would do differently if you were to do it again?

[dar47]

Sure, I have for the 2.1, NAD M51, Moon Mind 180 running music off a PC with Asset UPnp music server controlled with an IPad mini running Moon's app., this goes through an EMO XSP-1 pre-amp that has home theater bypass and a sub line out. Amp for the fronts are the EMO XPA-2 which will be replaced with a Ncore build next. The sub is IB 2-18's in a manifold running off the Inuke which I can run with the Ardent's (the mains) for music or without.

When running theater (any source) blue ray etc. the pre-amp passes through the front mains signal to a Marantz AV7005 pre /pro which now does the 7.1. I have another 5 channel Xpa-5 to run the center, and 2 surrounds on stands and 2 rear's in ceiling. I can still do blueray concerts and music just 2.1 with picture through the dac as well.

I started with a Marantz receiver and the RS 3way 5 speaker build which I sold off. First sub was a 15" down firing box now replaced with the IB. I built my house in 2005 so the space was designed for up front and I always had the end goal of doing music and theater in one space. Not sure what I would have done differently as I was building for a family and replaced as I went along and money was available. My family has since moved along and music is more my priority now. If you are not sure you want theater it can be the second priority and you can add a cheap receiver after your happy with the 2.1 setup. Is an IB over kill for music maybe but if you don't want big boxes in the main room then the very low distortion free IB is great for music too. I did learn that if theater is your main goal then go to separates (pre-pro and amps) and a big center channel right off the bat.

[TEK]

Sure, I have for the 2.1, NAD M51, Moon Mind 180 running music off a PC with Asset UPnp music server controlled with an IPad mini running Moon's app., this goes through an EMO XSP-1 pre-amp that has home theater bypass and a sub line out. Amp for the fronts are the EMO XPA-2 which will be replaced with a Ncore build next. The sub is IB 2-18's in a manifold running off the Inuke which I can run with the Ardent's (the mains) for music or without.

When running theater (any source) blue ray etc. the pre-amp passes through the front mains signal to a Marantz AV7005 pre /pro which now does the 7.1. I have another 5 channel Xpa-5 to run the center, and 2 surrounds on stands and 2 rear's in ceiling. I can still do blueray concerts and music just 2.1 with picture through the dac as well.

I started with a Marantz receiver and the RS 3way 5 speaker build which I sold off. First sub was a 15" down firing box now replaced with the IB. I built my house in 2005 so the space was designed for up front and I always had the end goal of doing music and theater in one space. Not sure what I would have done differently as I was building for a family and replaced as I went along and money was available. My family has since moved along and music is more my priority now. If you are not sure you want theater it can be the second priority and you can add a cheap receiver after your happy with the 2.1 setup. Is an IB over kill for music maybe but if you don't want big boxes in the main room then the very low distortion free IB is great for music too. I did learn that if theater is your main goal then go to separates (pre-pro and amps) and a big center channel right off the bat.

Dar47, I don't quite get the theater bit.
Say you are going to view a movie in 5.1 from Netflix on your HTPC. Could you explain what signals go out from the PC and where they go?

Edit: Hmm, did you write wrong here? "the pre-amp passes through the front mains signal to a Marantz AV7005 pre /pro"
From what I find that other does it seems as if they do the following:
1) For stereo playback they pass the signal from the source directly to the pre-amp. The pre-amp passes it to the amplifier.
2) For multi channel playback they pass the signal from the source to the AV processor. The processor does all signal processing and passes center, sub and back channels to an amp as in a regular HT setup. But the left and right channel are sent to the pre-amps HT-bypass. The pre-amp then just forward that signal unchanged to the amplifier connected to the pre-amp.
I assume as you have a sub out connected to the pre-amp that will just be deactivated and that the AV-processor also is connected to the sub(s).
I think this illustrates my understanding as this good. Are you setup the same (logical) or do you have a different solution?

[dar47]

Any source for theater goes through the pre-pro first then,

1. 5 channel amp for the center and surrounds.
2. for the front mains and sub out, it goes from the pre-pro to the XSP-1 then the xpa-2 and Inuke for base. When using these sources the bypass is engaged on the XPS-1 just passes the pre-pro signal through the XSP-1 to the XPA-2 and Inuke for base.

If you want just 2.1 through the dac from say the blue ray, I run an optical cable to the dac from the blueray as well as having a HDMI to the pre-pro,

1. set the blueray audio to 2 channel and put the XSP-1 in direct mode so the audio goes from the blueray to the dac, then XSP-1, then xpa2 and inuke. (no audio from the pre-pro). video goes HDMI through pre-pro to the TV.

2. Music I just go Mind 180 to the dac and through the XSP-1 to the xpa-2 and Inuke for base. xps-1 is in direct mode and the pre-pro isn't on.

So any source you want direct through the dac and not the pre-pro for audio (which is inferior to the dac) goes to the dac then the XSP-1 first and the XSP-1 is in direct mode.

Some pre-pros and receivers can pass through to but why pass through if you can go direct and just send video from the pre-pro. If you don't need video just go direct to dac and preamp. Pre-pro is off.

[oneplustwo]

Ah, I see. That's really helpful. What's the general consensus around using a HT pre-pro as a do it all (like the XMC-1). With the full Dirac Live, it could also replace the miniDSP that I would have needed to EQ the line arrays. Seems like the 2-channel aficionados poo-poo the concept, but it seems like a high end pre-pro should be able to shoulder the load of a mere 2-channels, no?

[dar47]

Yes, the XMC-1 can shoulder your needs to start if theater is the first priority and yes it would be a very good sounding pre-pro for 2 channel. It depends on the your level of poo poo I guess. at 2 grand it's an expensive pre-pro if theater is not your focus. After I built the Ardents the need for me was to keep up to them for music and no pre-pro would do. I still need a better amp then maybe a better pre amp, haha.

Buddy of mine ordered the Stealth 1, same dac as the xmc-1 and I was sad when I heard it as something was wrong with it and he sent it back but the xmc-1 is getting great reviews.

[oneplustwo]

Hmm... true, it is a lot of dough and my poo poo level (new term?) isn't terribly high. So I think I may plan for 2 channel and hedge where it makes sense for HT given I'm building that room from scratch. So new plan is...

- Wire the surrounds and build those in wall speakers (Zaph audio ZA5). Probably wire/build in the center channel too. Could wait on the center if I end up deciding not to go in wall.
- Get the "minimally viable" AVR to drive the surrounds and center that will also send full range L/R to my miniDSP for the line arrays and IB. Could also be a lower end pre-pro as I have enough amps to power them (any suggestions welcome).
- The 2.1 system is basically like your architecture then with my XDA-2--> miniDSP --> iNuke for IB and preamp for L/R. The XSP-1 is tempting, but I like building my own. XSP-1 money would get me perhaps a Pearl phono preamp and some other line-preamp. Maybe another Pass clone. That actually complicates things... I think I would need a switch to go between the phono pre-amp and XDA-2 ahead of the miniDSP. Hmm, maybe the XSP-1 wouldn't be so bad after all! (EDIT: another minor point. I could be fully balanced with the XSP from the DAC to balanced miniDSP to XSP to nCore/iNuke. There are fewer options in DIY balanced pre-amps.)

Please chime in with any thoughts on the AVR/pre-pro and opinions on the XSP-1 given our collective desire to DIY things are welcome!

[TEK]

My take on this is that you have to go very, very high up in the price range to get a receiver type of equipment that will give you pice of mind when listening to stereo music.
At the same time I think that you get a LOT of value for money in the mid-level of receivers, like Marantz SR7000 series as well as AV7000. This is unit in the range of 1000-2000 usd that is of great value.
For multiple sources a receiver is hands down the most user friendly piece of equipment you may have. And they usually work pritty good and stable

But, for the audiophile ones it will always be that nagging "could it be better".
At that point, doing upgrade cycles on a whole surround setup will be costly. When you go from those mid-level receivers to high-end the prices increases a lot. At the same time there is a lot happen on video formats, movie resolutions, surround sound formats - all things that for me indicates that high-end receivers/processors is not the place to
put your life savings...

This is the main resons my choice of having a decent receiver (probably a processor in the future), separate out amps for the main channels and then focus on a clear audio parh for stereo where I can mix and match different equipment at a different speed than for the rest of my home theater setup.
That said, if you are a film lover, I would have started with a good sorround setup (but with good main speakers) for both you and your family. When the movies is working OK I would have continued by adding hifi stereo equipment.
So my approach would be in oposit order of what dar47 would have done. But that is more about you (and your family - dont forget them here) beeing mostly a moviephile or an audiophile ;-)

[dar47]

I like Tek's suggestion with Marantz anything av7005 and up is great sounding (Marantz sound - Denon toys) and if you have amps then pre-pro is the way to go. Remember the HT industry is reinventing every 2 years and you will need to decide if 7.1 is good enough or are you chasing Atmos (no real content yet) with a new room, never mind the the whole 4K thing. Then there is the use of room correction, Audyssey, Dirac. I mic everything to the seating position manually with no Audyssey and you can do all this tuning the Lines and IB with the MiniDSP and something like Room EQ Wizard.

I actually bought the XSP-1 for the theater bypass and it does have a nice phono-pre built in and balanced through out. I had a moded Rega RP-6 with a MC cart and the Impedance range selector was nice too. I do want the EMO sound signature out of my set up though. If your going to DIY a pre then can you get the bypass, phono stage, and balanced through out? I to would build one to match my planned Ncore Tenor amp look a like. let me know!

[Steve Manning]

You might want to look at Parasound as an option as well. They have some new pre-amps that have a lot to offer for audio and HT, including built in DAC's.

[oneplustwo]

Any input on the Emo UMC pre-pros? I think there were a couple versions before the XMC came out. They seem to be pretty inexpensive on the used market and could be a great value that frees up funds for two channel toys.

[CraigJ]

I may have missed it, but where are you on your decision for front speakers?

[oneplustwo]

I may have missed it, but where are you on your decision for front speakers?

Corner loaded line array. Similar to the Murphy version but with different drivers. I'll EQ with miniDSP.

[dar47]

UMC-200 had the kinks work out but is discontinued. It just does audio process only with no amplification. Video can be done by your blue ray player. etc. I wouldn't touch UMC-1 though.

Any receiver with pre-outs can send signal to your separate amps and can act like a pre-pro though.

[oneplustwo]

UMC-200 might be just the ticket. Seems to have pretty good reviews and they're pretty cheap on eBay. Might be able to find one of the forums as well.

[kevinm]

I use a UMC-200 myself (UMC-1 before that, super buggy. 3/10, don't recommend).

The UMC-200 is quite nice for the price. Has been very reliable, built in PEQ is very handy. My only complaints for its time is the lack of dual subwoofer outputs (7.2). I have heard from a few sources that the XMC-1 is huge leap in performance - as Dar mentioned it is quite similar to the XSP-1 in regards to its 2 channel performance. I would say the 200 isn't really anything special here. Not bad by any means, but doesn't make you go "wow."

Great HT pre-pro though for the price. 8/10, would buy again.

[oneplustwo]

I wonder if I can PEQ my mains with the UMC-200 vs. needing a miniDSP. Anyone have any experience with that? I assume I can do the bass management sufficiently with the UMC as well. Could be a start and if I can't get a reasonable response, miniDSP would be one of the items in the upgrade path.

[cjd]

I wonder if I can PEQ my mains with the UMC-200 vs. needing a miniDSP. Anyone have any experience with that? I assume I can do the bass management sufficiently with the UMC as well. Could be a start and if I can't get a reasonable response, miniDSP would be one of the items in the upgrade path.

The miniDSP will blow anything you can do with a UMC-200 out of the water for bass/room tuning - especially if you can set up the hardware well to do the best you can with nulls.

If I remember right, my HT is now better than +/-2dB to about 16Hz (drops a bit more to 10Hz) and that's only after adding a 2nd sub in the riser (2x15 Ultimax in the riser @ ~50cu/ft, 4xTempest-X 15 in the front wall @~300cu/ft) and a balanced miniDSP (I also used the miniDSP to split the signal, mind... balanced out from the UMC to the miniDSP) The front sub had a ~38Hz null on its own. I'm sorely tempted by the XMC-1 but just can't justify it at the moment... so I live with a UMC. I have a USB mic plugged into the media PC and REW's automatic tuning, which kicks out super filters to do just what you need. It took some practice to make full sense out of using the software but was soooo worth it.

I'll be starting a thread soon (or resurrecting one I forgot I had started when we moved into this place...)

[oneplustwo]

Why is that? Is it because of the flexibility that miniDSP offers in terms of how many "parameters per band" miniDSP offers? I was thinking that the 11 bands of PEQ in the UMC was > the 5 or 6 from miniDSP but perhaps not all PEQ are created equally?. Or is it how you can mix and match channels and do crossovers, especially for bass management? Can you not use the UMIK and REW to kick out super filters that you plug into the UMC? (Obviously, I'm on the steep part of the learning curve here!)

[kevinm]

I agree with cjd. I use a minidsp on my L&R to actively split the signal for my bass bins. The minidsp is great. It offers far more refinement than the UMC. The UMC is doable, but it is more restricted.

Another thing to keep in mind, fewer PEQs will offer a better sound (IMO). I've tried really tightly EQ'd and more loosely EQ'd frequency response. I've found that prioritizing placement and setup (delays, crossovers, etc...) before adding EQ gives me the best sound. Also, adding room treatments lessened the severity of my nulls/peaks. I've only got about 3-4 filters on each of my speakers and I think it sounds the best thus far.

[oneplustwo]

Hmm... Good to know. In that case I'll probably start with miniDSP to dial in my line array and infinite baffle sub. Then do surround later. I have an old AVR that I could use in the meantime too.

[TEK]

I'm a bit curious about your plan for room treetment as well as speaker placement.
Maybe you could update your drawing with that information?

[oneplustwo]

I'm a bit curious about your plan for room treetment as well as speaker placement.
Maybe you could update your drawing with that information?

The front will be the corner loaded line arrays so literally in the corners on the left wall. The French doors will have heavy curtains which hopefully reduce the primary reflection on that wall. The opposite wall I'm planning some canvas photos wrapping DIY insulation panels. I may try a bass trap of some kind on the rear wall in the corner but haven't gotten that far yet. Initial thought is a DIY corner trap that looks like a corner table.

[TEK]

What is your plans with the floor and roof?
I assume polished concret will give a environment with a lot of echo?
What about the other speakers, center, surrounds and your IB sub?
Will you have Atmos (roof speakers)?
Will you have multiple subs?

Is the room build?
Have you tried to play around with REW to identify room modes?

Personally I have great belive in making the first part of the rooom as damped as possible, but leve the back part more "alive".
In ytur case you could bild a false wall in the front of the livingroom where tou could add technical equipment as well as line rhe whole real back wall with sound dampning material.

[TEK]

What is your plans with the floor and roof?
I assume polished concret will give a environment with a lot of echo?
What about the other speakers, center, surrounds and your IB sub?
Will you have Atmos (roof speakers)?
Will you have multiple subs?

Is the room build?
Have you tried to play around with REW to identify room modes?

Personally I have great belive in making the first part of the rooom as damped as possible, but leve the back part more "alive".
In ytur case you could bild a false wall in the front of the livingroom where tou could add technical equipment as well as line rhe whole real back wall with sound dampning material.

[oneplustwo]

Floor is currently planned to be wood-like tile but with a big rug in front. I hadn't thought about the ceiling yet. I doubt my wife will let me do much there. Also, the concept of the floor to ceiling line array supposedly makes ceiling and floor reflections less of an issue.

Surrounds are likely going to be Zaph ZA5 in wall design. No plans for ceiling speakers... 5.1 is likely as much of an investment as I'm willing to make in HT. Center channel still TBD. At the moment, considering not building one into the wall and adding in later as a traditional center speaker. I'll have two infinite baffle subs located in the front. They will likely face opposite each other in one manifold facing with two exits, one left and one right.

There sort of is a false wall since what is behind the wall is a hallway. I'm considering using the garage on the other side of the "left" wall for equipment but may instead do a built in entertainment center that houses the IB subs as well as the other equipment.
Room is not built yet... thus still in the planning stages.

What is your plans with the floor and roof?
I assume polished concret will give a environment with a lot of echo?
What about the other speakers, center, surrounds and your IB sub?
Will you have Atmos (roof speakers)?
Will you have multiple subs?

Is the room build?
Have you tried to play around with REW to identify room modes?

Personally I have great belive in making the first part of the rooom as damped as possible, but leve the back part more "alive".
In ytur case you could bild a false wall in the front of the livingroom where tou could add technical equipment as well as line rhe whole real back wall with sound dampning material.

[kevinm]

No plans for ceiling speakers... 5.1 is likely as much of an investment as I'm willing to make in HT.

I would wire for Atmos just in case. If you change your mind later, it'll be much, much harder. Right now, it'll only cost a few bucks in wire

[oneplustwo]

I would wire for Atmos just in case. If you change your mind later, it'll be much, much harder. Right now, it'll only cost a few bucks in wire

True. Maybe I should look into a Atmos receiver then. The Marantz SR7009 seems like a decent mid-level unit. Any other recommendations?

Also, what speakers would you put in the ceiling? I wonder if I could just use a couple of the same vifa TC's in there.

[TEK]

Are you sure that you won't go 7 + atmos? If you think about the sorrund channel mostly as effect channels you do not have do go that high on quality. Also, as you probably will be using high quality external amps for your stereo, you will probably have some extra amp channels available in the receiver ;-)

You might also consider adding one sub signal wites to each corner to have the option to install subs there at a later time...

Regarding roof and ceeling you should consider first reflections. Huge rug on the floor will help. If possible I would have added some acoustics measurement to the first half of the room (or more).
You have several options, some of them might even be approved by your wife ;-)

https://www.htguide.com/forum/asset.php?fid=24174&uid=606&d=1445901864

For a home theater in a living room I think there are many solutions that might look good without making the room look "unatural", but it does take some effort to find something you like.
When it comes to sound I think the roof is a huge area that can be used to improve the result a lot. You will also get a living room that is comfortable to be in as there will be little echo ressonanses in a room with good sound treatment.

[oneplustwo]

I may do 5.1.4. As you say, it's easy enough to run speaker wire and those effects speakers don't need to be terribly high end. I might just use the same Vifa TC9FD that I'm using for the line arrays and be done with it. And perhaps not even bother with a crossover since the receiver may EQ them for me anyway.

Room treatments will be an evolution I think. If I do a little at a time, maybe the wife won't notice.

[cjd]

Why is that? Is it because of the flexibility that miniDSP offers in terms of how many "parameters per band" miniDSP offers? I was thinking that the 11 bands of PEQ in the UMC was > the 5 or 6 from miniDSP but perhaps not all PEQ are created equally?. Or is it how you can mix and match channels and do crossovers, especially for bass management? Can you not use the UMIK and REW to kick out super filters that you plug into the UMC? (Obviously, I'm on the steep part of the learning curve here!)

REW will generate much better biquad filters for you automagically than PEQ will typically allow. It's not really PEQ any more. I'm not sure the UMC lets you do this. The XMC-1 with the full version of DiracLive may do this...

In my case, I also needed to be able to tune the subs separately (different delay, different room interaction) so I'm using the MiniDSP to split the single balanced output on my UMC to a pair of balanced signals...

I don't want to think about how much I could overload the circuit this is plugged into. I ran conduit when I put the floor down for the HT, will be able to run it all the way back to the box soon and get some dedicated circuits run (the existing line ran the long way around the house and is at max capacity!)

[oneplustwo]

Ok, miniDSP for the fronts it is. I've updated the first post to reflect the new direction. We'll see how much it changes between now and when I actually get this thing done.

[cjd]

Check into SeymourAV for your screen needs - they offer customized retractable screens (as well as fixed screens AND they're one of the last to offer the actual screen material to the DIYer.)

I have a 115" 2.35:1 from them (purchased the frame this time around - by the time I figured in the cost of materials, my lag in building it, and the weight difference of wood vs extruded aluminum... worth it.)

[oneplustwo]

Check into SeymourAV for your screen needs - they offer customized retractable screens (as well as fixed screens AND they're one of the last to offer the actual screen material to the DIYer.)

I have a 115" 2.35:1 from them (purchased the frame this time around - by the time I figured in the cost of materials, my lag in building it, and the weight difference of wood vs extruded aluminum... worth it.)

Looks nice. I was thinking about painting one on to minimize complexity and cost. The reading I've done seems to reveal good results but I probably need to do some more digging.

[oneplustwo]

nCpre signal wiring

This is a little bit of a tangent, but does anyone have a recommendation on how to wire the nCore signal cable? From the data sheet, it looks like the signal wires go to pin 2 and 3 and pin 1 goes to the chassis. Also, it has the shielding going to the chassis as well as the fourth wire in the cable assembly. Can I have the shield and pin 1 and the fourth wire all go to the same point on the chassis?