Official Wavecor Ardent Reference Thread - How we realized the Dream
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What material did you use? Bamboo?
I guess that for us that can not source bamboo that MDF is the best choice?
From my experience, large thin sheets of plywood have a tendency to buckle.-TEK
Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...
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These can be done with MDF or HDF- the latter is harder to get, and at times, a subtle distinction. Either mills well, and yes, I think plywood of that thickness may often not be all that dimensionally (planar) stable, without some type of bracing.
I'll update/add this to the front this weekend.the AudioWorx
Natalie P
M8ta
Modula Neo DCC
Modula MT XE
Modula Xtreme
Isiris
Wavecor Ardent
SMJ
Minerva Monitor
Calliope
Ardent D
In Development...
Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
Obi-Wan
Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
Modula PWB
Calliope CC Supreme
Natalie P Ultra
Natalie P Supreme
Janus BP1 Sub
Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
Just ask Mr. Ohm....- Bottom
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Any information about what the tweeter, mid and bass chamber should be lined with internally, as well as the amount of fill to add to all chambers?
I expext that the tweeter camber is left empty, but would like a confirmation.
Also know Jon lined his mid chamber with led first, but not what if it also should be lined with something more.
Remember that the bass chamber on the isiris was lined with carpets(?), but dont remember to see anything about it for this build.-TEK
Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...
- Bottom
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Hello TEK,
What I did was line the mid/tweeter chamber with lead, then with ~16mm heavy felt, then stuffed with long fiber wool.
The bass chamber was not lined, as the natural wall resonant points are well above the operating frequency range of the drivers; I stuffed mine with Acousta Stuff, a synthetic fiber material designed for loudspeaker stuffing, but I believe high quality fiberglass would work just fine. An empirical way to determine the ideal amount of stuffing would require measuring the impedance curve, and keep adding stuffing until the resonant frequency starts going up, or there is no further decline in the impedance peak. It's not really very critical, considering the greater influence room positioning generally has on the overall bass performance, but naturally, you're better off with the lowest Fb and greatest damping, unless the driver is already with too low a Qtc, in that case, you probably shouldn't be using it sealed anyway! :W
Vance Dickason's 4th edition and later of the Loudspeaker cookbook has a fairly extensive section discussion on the topic.the AudioWorx
Natalie P
M8ta
Modula Neo DCC
Modula MT XE
Modula Xtreme
Isiris
Wavecor Ardent
SMJ
Minerva Monitor
Calliope
Ardent D
In Development...
Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
Obi-Wan
Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
Modula PWB
Calliope CC Supreme
Natalie P Ultra
Natalie P Supreme
Janus BP1 Sub
Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
Just ask Mr. Ohm....- Bottom
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Wavecor describes the difference here:
Spec's:
I do not know mutch about this, but it does not seems to me that 02 will be a drop-in-replacement for 01.
Sensitivity: 85 vs. 83
Sd: 214 vs. 206
Fs: 26 vs 24
Qms: 14,4 vs 10,7
...- Bottom
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The fundamental response of the drivers is quite similar, as is the cone; the T/S parameters are a bit different, which also translates into a bit more LF extension, but a dB or two less sensitivity. I have some SW223BD02 on order now from Solen; the price is attractive, and I think only minor changes to the midrange and tweeter padding will be required. I'm also looking at using the SW223BD02 in LF modules for a line array, with the Scanspeak PR, in about 30L per each set (driver plus PR)the AudioWorx
Natalie P
M8ta
Modula Neo DCC
Modula MT XE
Modula Xtreme
Isiris
Wavecor Ardent
SMJ
Minerva Monitor
Calliope
Ardent D
In Development...
Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
Obi-Wan
Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
Modula PWB
Calliope CC Supreme
Natalie P Ultra
Natalie P Supreme
Janus BP1 Sub
Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
Just ask Mr. Ohm....- Bottom
Comment
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The fundamental response of the drivers is quite similar, as is the cone; the T/S parameters are a bit different, which also translates into a bit more LF extension, but a dB or two less sensitivity. I have some SW223BD02 on order now from Solen; the price is attractive, and I think only minor changes to the midrange and tweeter padding will be required.
Line arrays with Wavecor LF modules? Now that sounds interesting...- Bottom
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I would probably have gone for the new edition, but as it turned out I got my hands on some of the old ones.
And as I knew I would like verification and probably som proven design before putting it all together I figured I just go for the old drivers.
Oi-TEK
Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...
- Bottom
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For those in the US trying to order from Solen, break the order up into 2 orders of 2 drivers and select Expedited Parcel Post. This reduces the shipping cost significantly. The website gave me $505 shipping for 4 or $55 each order of 2.
Glad to hear that you're investigating the 02, Jon. I figured I could go active mid to woofer if needed.- Bottom
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For those in the US trying to order from Solen, break the order up into 2 orders of 2 drivers and select Expedited Parcel Post. This reduces the shipping cost significantly. The website gave me $505 shipping for 4 or $55 each order of 2.
Glad to hear that you're investigating the 02, Jon. I figured I could go active mid to woofer if needed.- Bottom
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Mine shipped on Tuesday, also using the Expedited Parcel Post trick. Pretty slick. Tomorrow I'm ordering some of the new PR223BD02 - much more usable T/S parameters than the first version, and they say it comes with a complete weight set for adjustments. This is good, as I need to add about 150gm for the planned application in a 1 cu. ft box. The real kick in the butt about this, is that the PR's are going to cost me more than the woofers! I'm painted into a corner, because they're the best small one available.
I would call this three way concept the Ardent Jr. but it will be a conventional box and not look anything like an Ardent. But it should move a lot of air for a small system. Right now I'm trying to figure out which tweeter I can fit in theres... :W I haven't tried a CAD drawing yet, but checking dimensions, it looks like I may just barely (with a customer LBL front panel without rounded edges) be able to squeeze in the RS52AN for the mid AND a RAAL 140-15D for the tweeter. Of course, that means there are some other tweeter options, too... but not bigger units like the 9700 or Transducer labs. With the dome mid, of course I can push the crossover higher without problems.the AudioWorx
Natalie P
M8ta
Modula Neo DCC
Modula MT XE
Modula Xtreme
Isiris
Wavecor Ardent
SMJ
Minerva Monitor
Calliope
Ardent D
In Development...
Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
Obi-Wan
Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
Modula PWB
Calliope CC Supreme
Natalie P Ultra
Natalie P Supreme
Janus BP1 Sub
Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
Just ask Mr. Ohm....- Bottom
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Nice oneWhat you screamin' for, every five minutes there's a bomb or something. I'm leavin' Bzzzzzzz!
5th Element, otherwise known as Matt.
Now with website. www.5een.co.uk Still under construction.- Bottom
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the AudioWorx
Natalie P
M8ta
Modula Neo DCC
Modula MT XE
Modula Xtreme
Isiris
Wavecor Ardent
SMJ
Minerva Monitor
Calliope
Ardent D
In Development...
Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
Obi-Wan
Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
Modula PWB
Calliope CC Supreme
Natalie P Ultra
Natalie P Supreme
Janus BP1 Sub
Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
Just ask Mr. Ohm....- Bottom
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- Bottom
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Thanks guys! At one point I didn't think I would get this far.
It is kind of like Bob's Poor Man build: could I do this with only very basic tools. Seemed to come out ok c/w all of its foibles.
Veneering (sigh) I clad the out side with .25 maple veneer ply. That is truly horrible stuff but I think I will just finish doing the facets and leave it.
I plan to do another set in the future.
Cheers, Wayne- Bottom
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the AudioWorx
Natalie P
M8ta
Modula Neo DCC
Modula MT XE
Modula Xtreme
Isiris
Wavecor Ardent
SMJ
Minerva Monitor
Calliope
Ardent D
In Development...
Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
Obi-Wan
Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
Modula PWB
Calliope CC Supreme
Natalie P Ultra
Natalie P Supreme
Janus BP1 Sub
Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
Just ask Mr. Ohm....- Bottom
Comment
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Thanks, Dar! Yes the other cab is as far along.
This has been quite a learning experience. Now that I procedures that I know work, at least with the tools I have, I wouldn't mind doing another build. I really would like a little better veneer. I like the look of Jon's.
I am going to try the same baffle style on a 2-way cab next.
Cheers, Wayne- Bottom
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that they are! :T
I just got my PRS223BD02 PR's today, which are going to be used in new experimental stand mount speaker- similar frames, but a lot lighter without those big magnets!
As shown here, they come with multiple weights, allowing easy tuning for the specific application; I've already figured out from the data sheet which combination should work in a 1 cu ft enclosure.the AudioWorx
Natalie P
M8ta
Modula Neo DCC
Modula MT XE
Modula Xtreme
Isiris
Wavecor Ardent
SMJ
Minerva Monitor
Calliope
Ardent D
In Development...
Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
Obi-Wan
Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
Modula PWB
Calliope CC Supreme
Natalie P Ultra
Natalie P Supreme
Janus BP1 Sub
Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
Just ask Mr. Ohm....- Bottom
Comment
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Updated Starting post; concept schematic added, and as built schematic corrected C6D value.the AudioWorx
Natalie P
M8ta
Modula Neo DCC
Modula MT XE
Modula Xtreme
Isiris
Wavecor Ardent
SMJ
Minerva Monitor
Calliope
Ardent D
In Development...
Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
Obi-Wan
Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
Modula PWB
Calliope CC Supreme
Natalie P Ultra
Natalie P Supreme
Janus BP1 Sub
Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
Just ask Mr. Ohm....- Bottom
Comment
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For reference- starting measurements on the SW223BD02 - this is a near field sweep in a 28L test box. This is a box with PR, just showing the front wave; yes, the PR null in woofer movement is at about 22 Hz. No complaints here...
the AudioWorx
Natalie P
M8ta
Modula Neo DCC
Modula MT XE
Modula Xtreme
Isiris
Wavecor Ardent
SMJ
Minerva Monitor
Calliope
Ardent D
In Development...
Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
Obi-Wan
Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
Modula PWB
Calliope CC Supreme
Natalie P Ultra
Natalie P Supreme
Janus BP1 Sub
Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
Just ask Mr. Ohm....- Bottom
Comment
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Looking good ...... is that one of the Wavecor PR's or one of the 10" Scan Speak's? It's to bad I don't live close I could give you a hand with boxes and throw in an extra one for the Ardent - S and see how that compares.- Bottom
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Looking good, Wayne! Two thumbs way up, and congratulations! :T
It's a good feeling when you get to this point... they're a lot of work, but they're worth it.the AudioWorx
Natalie P
M8ta
Modula Neo DCC
Modula MT XE
Modula Xtreme
Isiris
Wavecor Ardent
SMJ
Minerva Monitor
Calliope
Ardent D
In Development...
Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
Obi-Wan
Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
Modula PWB
Calliope CC Supreme
Natalie P Ultra
Natalie P Supreme
Janus BP1 Sub
Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
Just ask Mr. Ohm....- Bottom
Comment
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Price is sort of reasonable, (it's less than the Wavecor PR), and it's got a good bit of throw and Sd.
In some ways, this is going to be something like a mini TAD clone. Certainly inspired by the TAD systems with concentric midrange/tweeters.
I'm going to be off on Friday and all next week- I'll get around to the extra modeling tasks (dual woofers, 1 PR) pretty soon, see if there's any way to optimize it.
BTW, using the UMAX derived box that wan't cut for a driver, I just lined the corners with 1/2 the thickness of a 6" thick dow corning fiberglass. Enough midrange damping, but doesn't seem to kill the bottom end.
For those curious, putting the mid at the side of the enclosure (enclosure up in the air, about 48" off the ground), so as to combine front wave and PR rear wave, (that's how the test box was built, on opposite faces), this indicates things are working as expected pretty much from Unibox- some room influence of course, but nothing most of us couldn't live with easily...
the AudioWorx
Natalie P
M8ta
Modula Neo DCC
Modula MT XE
Modula Xtreme
Isiris
Wavecor Ardent
SMJ
Minerva Monitor
Calliope
Ardent D
In Development...
Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
Obi-Wan
Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
Modula PWB
Calliope CC Supreme
Natalie P Ultra
Natalie P Supreme
Janus BP1 Sub
Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
Just ask Mr. Ohm....- Bottom
Comment
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Interesting. So instead of putting down 1/8" hardboard prior to veneering as others have done, you simply glued veneer ply onto the main cabinet faces. Something to think about.
In the past I've had good luck with raw veneer and heat lock glue (iron on method) but my max panel width of 11 inches. I'm a bit worried about splitting with the larger panels that would be necessary for this speaker. Ironing might work great for the facets though.- Bottom
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Yes Horio, for the reasons you stated. I haven't done much veneering so it seemed the easier way to go. What ever type of ply they use tho is horrible. Next time I might try pre-gluing the veneer to some .125 BB.
I 45* the front corners and it seemed to come out ok. A bit stressful to line up for gluing tho.
Thanks Dar! yes waiting for xover parts.
Cheers, Wayne
Cheers, Wayne- Bottom
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- Bottom
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shouldn't be a problem...the AudioWorx
Natalie P
M8ta
Modula Neo DCC
Modula MT XE
Modula Xtreme
Isiris
Wavecor Ardent
SMJ
Minerva Monitor
Calliope
Ardent D
In Development...
Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
Obi-Wan
Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
Modula PWB
Calliope CC Supreme
Natalie P Ultra
Natalie P Supreme
Janus BP1 Sub
Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
Just ask Mr. Ohm....- Bottom
Comment
-
Interesting. So instead of putting down 1/8" hardboard prior to veneering as others have done, you simply glued veneer ply onto the main cabinet faces. Something to think about.
In the past I've had good luck with raw veneer and heat lock glue (iron on method) but my max panel width of 11 inches. I'm a bit worried about splitting with the larger panels that would be necessary for this speaker. Ironing might work great for the facets though.
Hope that will work out well...-TEK
Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...
- Bottom
Comment
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I think you did well with the 1/4 stuff. You doing the bases in Black or veneer?
Usually the veneer they apply to substrates (sheet goods) tends to be more uniform and it's meant to match other sheet goods for surfaces on furniture or mill work. When you go with just veneer you tend to have a lot more chose for variety and the quality is better as they are maximizing high quality logs for thin veneer which increases prophet. It's more work and expense on our part but the veneer is usually of higher quality.
Excited for you, and looking forward to your thoughts on sound! Hey give us some shots of your xovers built and tucked in place when you get there. :W- Bottom
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