Another Wavecor Ardent build

[dar47]

Golly, Dark One that does go with your technological terror's your working on.

Along with the rear huger, seat, exhaust, Heili Bars, levers, wind shield, tank guards you need the panniers, rev limiter (178mph if you dare) and it's drive by throttle so there is a nice electronic cruise control, no lousy throttle lock and for the old cold day how a bought Honda heated grips? When you burn through that rubber get some Michelin Road Pilot 4's. You could do a back spring to match your weight and the front forks but that along with the rev limiter is over the top for guys are age. Just saying, haha

http://www.bikersoracle.com/vfr/forum/showthread.php?t=130536

Sorry, Bob I couldn't resist.

[BobEllis]

No worries, dar. I'm in TEK's camp, knowing how I drive in a car that handles I figure a bike would be deadly. I passed a car on a twisty downhill section on my bicycle ride Wednesday.

[Evil Twin]

Golly, Dark One that does go with your technological terror's your working on.

Along with the rear huger, seat, exhaust, Heili Bars, levers, wind shield, tank guards you need the panniers, rev limiter (178mph if you dare) and it's drive by throttle so there is a nice electronic cruise control, no lousy throttle lock and for the old cold day how a bought Honda heated grips? When you burn through that rubber get some Michelin Road Pilot 4's. You could do a back spring to match your weight and the front forks but that along with the rev limiter is over the top for guys are age. Just saying, haha

http://www.bikersoracle.com/vfr/forum/showthread.php?t=130536

Sorry, Bob I couldn't resist.

The panniers are in the garage, and the extended rev limiter in upper gears is built into the EFI mod. That list is checked off... this is what might be termed a Hooligan VFR.

I engaged in a friendly discussion with an EMI/EMC trainer specialist, who had just purchased a used VFR800 and was praising it to the skies; my response was yes, but if you want a true hooligan bike, this (the VFR1200) will do the job better. Of course, his response was that it was too heavy, he didn't think it could handle as well, it's shaft drive, blah blah blah, but then he had to stop in his tracks when I pointed out that I own both, the VFR800 since 1998, and speak from experience regarding their road bike credentials and virtues.

[dar47]

Pointing out any lack of focus on your part is folly, haha

The bikes initial high price scared many off but those that jumped in on the used market are not letting then go as it is a technological terror.

[Steve Manning]

I would have expected a statement like .... " I Find Your Lack of Faith Disturbing ", followed by choking sounds.

[Renron]

I engaged in a friendly discussion with an EMI/EMC trainer specialist, who had just purchased a used VFR800 and was praising it to the skies; my response was yes, but if you want a true hooligan bike, this (the VFR1200) will do the job better. Of course, his response was that it was too heavy, he didn't think it could handle as well, it's shaft drive, blah blah blah, but then he had to stop in his tracks when I pointed out that I own both, the VFR800 since 1998, and speak from experience regarding their road bike credentials and virtues.

At this point he was introduced to the "Air Lock" exit.
Woosh.

End of discussion.

Ron

[dar47]

In a far off galaxy hidden in a deep bunker an older 2010 Xwing sits ready for upgrades. Rebels reviewing the plans of the dark side can have many benefits!

Image not available

And a note to you all if you do not challenge your Lord he may not remain sharp and truly know the power of the dark side, haha

[Evil Twin]

In a far off galaxy hidden in a deep bunker an older 2010 Xwing sits ready for upgrades. Rebels reviewing the plans of the dark side can have many benefits!

Image not available

And a note to you all if you do not challenge your Lord he may not remain sharp and truly know the power of the dark side, haha

True, so true... I had reason to practice those techniques just yesterday with the new order Empire middle management...

Ah yes, this was the version which originally caught my interest, and is a very nice color, even though it is not black. However, I bided my time and waited until I found a brand new 2013 at Roseville Honda priced to move at a very reasonable out the door figure- with the combination of the factory updates, and my own additions, (I think you missed the after market foot pegs- but otherwise you have a sharp eye) it is truly a satisfactory experience- even the windshield is a surprisingly important contributor considering comfort at speed.

Now, as soon as I can get those new synthetic hip and knee joints, the experience will be complete. I have seen first hand the benefit of the aftermarket hip joints, so at least I know that there is a solution that works.

[BobEllis]

Speaking of shiny objects of lust, this is after rubbing compound. Polish and wax coming.

[TEK]

Very, very, very nice Bob!
Now when they are perfect - how long is it before you get these to start singing?

[BobEllis]

Thanks, TEK.

I have all crossover parts, so I should be able to listen to their song in a couple days. I've decided to make different bases, so the crossovers will be external for now. My table saw is a couple hours away, so the bases will be a project for when I return home in October.

Edit: Twilight zone moment. I have not looked at motorcycles online anywhere recently, except the posts above. However, I am suddenly receiving ads for motorcycles, "the ten best used motorcycles", "the five most reliable motorcycles." Using Chrome, Google is getting a bit too intrusive.

[JonMarsh]

It's not just Google Chrome- I use Safari exclusively, don't browse on PC's, and I get that kind of linkage all the time, and not just from going to a commercial site. I'm used to it that if I go to Rockler or Woodcraft or Sweetwater the AdClick choices will reflect that, but like you say, there's all kind of off the wall linkages just based on browser history. I need to get off my butt and setup for anonymous browsing.

[BobEllis]

Post polishing. Not quite as flat as Ron's but I'm happy with the way they look. It'll be a day or two before I get to installing drivers and wiring the crossover. Of course there will be good camera glamor shots.



I continue to be impressed with my little Schiit DAC. Interesting the way it throws images. Close mic'd instruments with artificial reverb sound like paintings on a blank wall. Disconnected space between them. Better recordings sound wonderful, but the first time I identified close mic artificial space it surprised me. Can't wait to hear what the Ardents will do.

[JonMarsh]

Cool! :T

[benthe8track]

Post polishing. Not quite as flat as Ron's but I'm happy with the way they look. It'll be a day or two before I get to installing drivers and wiring the crossover. Of course there will be good camera glamor shots.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]26370[/ATTACH]

I continue to be impressed with my little Schiit DAC. Interesting the way it throws images. Close mic'd instruments with artificial reverb sound like paintings on a blank wall. Disconnected space between them. Better recordings sound wonderful, but the first time I identified close mic artificial space it surprised me. Can't wait to hear what the Ardents will do.

Looks great! You're going to love em, mine still put a smile on my face every day. I'm moving next week and I'm hoping to polish them,now that they will be out of a dark basement.

[dar47]

Bob, love the rub out on the veneer.:T:T

This convinces me to go for it to as I left mine with veneer edges proud and only 5 coats on so this winter I think I will take them down and do a rub out. Sand and hand finish and then rub out. Mine too are coming up into the light out of the basement.

[BobEllis]

Thanks, guys. If it wasn't getting so close to the end of comfortable cycling season, I'd finish them tomorrow. My riding buddy's wife doesn't want him riding alone, so ride whenever I can physically. Sometimes I get too tired to ride, but can still make some progress on these.

[Renron]

Wow Bob, those look spectacular. Excellent gloss and as flat as mine. You should be proud of your work. I'm excited for you to hear them too.
Dar47, High gloss is about 10 , em, make that 20 times the work of satin or even semi gloss. I'm on coat #8 and at least one more to go. Sheesh. Just trying to meet Bob's quality has me up at nights!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ron

[BobEllis]

Thanks, Ron. Means a lot looking at your pictures.

In my relatively small wood finishing experience, a good satin or semigloss finish is just slightly less work than full gloss. I've never been able to apply a satin product smoothly enough that I'm satisfied with the finish without further wet sanding and polishing. What works for me is applying a gloss material, then working through the grits up to up to 00 or 0000 steel wool for satin, which is about a step less than 600-2000 grit, rubbing compound and then polishing compound. There's probably a bit of overlap between 2000 grit and rubbing compound, depending on which one you choose. Checking my 3M rubbing compound bottle, I could have stopped at 1500 grit, but I skipped it (none on hand) and went from 1000 to 2000 and wet sanded twice as long. I wonder how 4000 grit Abralon would leave the surface. I used Turtle Wax polishing compound. I've preferred others (3M, Griot's Garage) but the local hardware store had this and it saved going to the nearest auto parts store 30 miles further away.

[BobEllis]

First cabinet loaded. Getting heavy. Crossover assembly starts tomorrow.

[scottvalentin]

Yeehaw!! That is awesome Bob!! Can't wait to see the socks up!

[BobEllis]

Both loaded. Getting close to the glamour shots.

[scottvalentin]

I get giddy looking at these!

[BobEllis]

Me, too. We have an event tomorrow early afternoon, but I should be able to get some XO assembly done. Weekend rides are looking shorter than I had expected, so I may be done by the end of the weekend. (At least until I make proper bases)

[CraigJ]

Looking very good Bob, and even better top side up!

[dar47]

Love your choice of veneer. I think some one else coined it right, the scale and proportion of this design is perfect and it always makes me smile. Bob you will hear the sound that is definitely the cheery on top.

[BobEllis]

Thanks, dar. I narrowed it down to a few I liked at veneersupplies.com and the decorating committee chose the freak maple burl. It was my favorite, but since I was proposing placing these relatively large objects in her living room, it was important to get her input. She really doesn't want the grilles - they'd cover too much interesting wood. Funny thing on the size - when vertical they have lived on furniture dollies for so long that when placed on the floor they feel small. Couldn't have planned it better.

Craig, thanks for standing them up. For some reason the forum puts all my iPhone pictures in landscape orientation. Even when I download them to PC, rotate to the proper orientation before uploading. I just gave up on it. Real camera pictures seem to be OK, so when we get the real glamour/socks up shots it should be correctly oriented.

[Renron]

So very nice. The Woofers really fill it up. So nice. Don't hurt your back lifting those monsters.

[Horio]

Very nice Bob! You are getting very close to making some music.

The driver fairy swing by my house yesterday and dropped off some Accuton's and Scanspeaks.

[BobEllis]

Looking forward to your build thread, Horio.

With the driver holes as handles these weren't bad to lift. Add 25 pounds and the requirement to grasp top rear, bottom front and these become a bit of a bear to wrangle. Wasn't too bad coming off the sawhorses to the floor, but floor to dolly is another story.

[Steve Manning]

With the driver holes as handles these weren't bad to lift. Add 25 pounds and the requirement to grasp top rear, bottom front and these become a bit of a bear to wrangle. Wasn't too bad coming off the sawhorses to the floor, but floor to dolly is another story.

Those are looking killer Bob :T ...... I found the same thing with the Minerva's and handling. They are 80 - 85 lbs without drivers in a rather "small" box ...... Jon's going to have a surprise when the UPS drops those off at his door.

[JonMarsh]

Those are looking killer Bob :T ...... I found the same thing with the Minerva's and handling. They are 80 - 85 lbs without drivers in a rather "small" box ...... Jon's going to have a surprise when the UPS drops those off at his door.

Not really... remember, I have a hell for stout table saw version here, built with double layers of LBL... :B

[BobEllis]

Jon's a https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO43p2Wqc08

[JonMarsh]

Jon's a https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO43p2Wqc08

Not quite... I've got a bad knee and one hip with bone on bone. OTOH, my 37 year old nephew from Texarkana was surprised at how much better shape I'm in than his mom (my younger sister) ...or him... (My sister can't cook for herself, according to him, due to extreme arthritis, whereas I can play guitar or keyboards) (don't know if it's bad genetics or bad lifestyle decisions- the latter I do know about).

I figure any good training regimen should include doing curls with empty Ardent cabinets (as noted, moving loaded ones around is pretty tricky- nothing to grab onto! ). :W

But if you don't have an Ardent cabinet around, a contractor table saw should do...

BTW, the cabinet moving difficulty when loaded definitely applies to the Minerva, too- TS or non TS version, I expect!

Happy Labor Day Weekend everyone! I don't expect we'll hear from folks much the next three days, as you'll all be out barbecuing and having fun with your families! Yup, that's an order! :B

[Steve Manning]

Happy Labor Day Weekend everyone! I don't expect we'll hear from folks much the next three days, as you'll all be out barbecuing and having fun with your families! Yup, that's an order! :B

Will give it a try boss, but Hermine has stopped by for a visit and has kind of changed everyone's plans for the weekend. 8O Might be able to get out and do something Monday since now that the storm is sitting on top of us it's slowing down until it gets out to sea.

[BobEllis]

Soldering up crossovers this morning and noticed something odd. The Obbligato cap leads are both much thinner than Jantzen or Clarity and not tinned. The latter means that there is a layer of oxidation on many that must be cleaned off to get a good solder joint. Of course you could just heat the heck out of the lead and cook the oxidation off and risk damaging the cap. I've never had this issue with another cap.

Roughed out crossovers leaving all lead length for later repackaging. Have woofer and tweeter sections complete, halfway through the first midrange, but my sweetheart says it's time to ride now that i's warmed up a bit. We hit 50° last night. Will likely finish up tomorrow afternoon.

[JonMarsh]

Those are Obligatto golds? Mine have skinnier leads, but they seem to be normally tinned. I haven't soldered anything yet, on my Minerva boards, but they don't look like they'd be a problem. Pictures?

[JonMarsh]

Will give it a try boss, but Hermine has stopped by for a visit and has kind of changed everyone's plans for the weekend. 8O Might be able to get out and do something Monday since now that the storm is sitting on top of us it's slowing down until it gets out to sea.

I expect that storm is messing up the Labor Day weekend for quite a few folks in the SouthEast- I hope things lighten up for you on Monday!

[BobEllis]

Those are Obligatto golds? Mine have skinnier leads, but they seem to be normally tinned. I haven't soldered anything yet, on my Minerva boards, but they don't look like they'd be a problem. Pictures?

Yes, they are Obbligato Golds, a few swipes with 1000 grit took care of it before I thought to take pictures. There was a sooty looking film that repelled solder.

[BobEllis]

First listen - powered by a Dayton 15W T-amp fed by the Schiit Modi MB. Essentially free air, on the porch with a half wall 5' on one side, screen on the other. No attempt to optimize placement. Just WOW! Couldn't tear myself away to get a good amp out.

Unsolicited comments from my girlfriend:

- Everything sounds SO much clearer - the instruments are more distinct.

- On Money for Nothing intro, "you really get a sense of how big the drum set is. The cymbals sound big, like there are real cymbals in the room."

- You can hear each note that makes up the chords.

Bass is solid and clean, subwoofer not needed for most music. Much more detail in most recordings. Similar to the chord comment, I noticed I can now identify individual backup singers in the mix, not just a chorus. Even at low levels there is a complete image. So often it seems like it takes a bit of volume to make the image gel. Not with these. Tomorrow morning the Pass A75+ comes out.

Still need to make proper bases to get the crossovers inside, but I'm really enjoying these even at limited output with a T-amp. Thanks for all your hard work and sharing this design with us, Jon.

[JonMarsh]

Glad to hear you're enjoying them, Bob! :T I bet the Pass A75+ will do very nicely by them, and vice versa!

When are the glamour shots coming? :W :B

[scottvalentin]

Very exciting!! Congratulations Bob and enjoy those beautiful speakers. Thanks for sharing your journey here. It's been exciting and educational!

[Renron]

Thanks for the quick listening report Bob.
If your using a T amp and they sound good, maybe there is hope for a Pass F5 to be enough too? Mind trying your out? I really enjoy the super smooth / clean sound of the F5, it just doesn't have the power of the Honey Badger thou. When I'm listening to my Ardent TS (future) I'll share my opinions.
Congrats Bob, they look wonderful. I'm sure they sound as good as they look too.
Ron

[BobEllis]

Thanks, all. It's going to be a bit for the glamour shots, mostly because there isn't a glamorous spot in this 100 year old summer camp. I'll have to get the sock shot later - right now it's too bright outside to see the speakers.

The A75+ is online. A major step up from the T-amp, as expected. The speakers pretty much disappear, there's just this beautiful sound stage that often extends wider than the speakers. Details out the wazoo, wide sweet spot.

The A75+ is my modification to the original Thagard Pass A75 design published in 1992. My brave first DIY amp in 2001. I bumped the rails up to 65V on the front end from 50 and changed a few components to keep current and dissipation under control. Output rails are 58V loaded with 1.2A bias which should give me a touch over 10W in class A before going to AB to maybe 125-150 W. Reading that some thought the A75 as designed sounded dark. I replaced the input devices with IRF610/9610 which cut the input capacitance in half. I also halved the number of output pairs, reducing the rolloff there, as well. I wouldn't call the amp dark, although it does sound different than the Honey Badger and Leach. The latter are at home, so comparisons will have to wait.

My F5T is still a work in progress, Ron. A nice winter project. I'll be running 35V rails, so it will have a bit more power than a standard F5. With your -01 woofers you have a couple dB more sensitivity, you might get away with your F5.

I think the reason I was able to get away with the T-amp at all is that it is so quiet here. Before the wind starts rustling the leaves it's quiet enough that I can hear a hummingbird around 30' away. Even so, on sustained loud passages it fell apart.

Signal chain - JRiver Media Center to built in SPDIF (WASAPI) to Schiit Modi MB to Schiit Sys volume control to A75+.

[JonMarsh]

You've got room to grow... the main design compromise of these puppies is sensitivity. We have a reasonable box size, a nice extended bottom end, and an amplifier friendly impedance curve. Just couldn't fit in cheap and high sensitivity, too! :W