Another Wavecor Ardent build

[BobEllis]

Yep, planning to grow to the big Schiit DAC with a proper ladder attenuator and try a few more amps. The F5T build will be set up so it can become an "X" version (Pass super symmetry patent), although 450WPC of waste heat isn't all that exciting. I may even go the balanced/transformer input nCore route. Just a matter of money.

[BobEllis]

It's a good thing I don't have a fixed schedule. I've accomplished essentially nothing since these speakers came on line. I've had music playing every waking minute. Mostly I just listen and smile.

[Evil Twin]

Yes, you too have fallen to the power of the Dark side...

[Renron]

Bob, Isn't it almost always "only a matter of money"? Enjoy the fruits of your very hard labors.

Soon, I too will succumb to the Dark Side and join forces to defeat the Rebel scum. Admittedly with a de-tuned TIE fighter. (Twin Ion Engine)
Ron

[BobEllis]

There is also that time factor for DIY efforts.

Although you may be slightly de-tuned, you will still reach a level of performance that far exceeds that experienced by those who don't know the Dark Side.

[BobEllis]

Had to go out to get food. Gave me a chance to move them indoors. Approximately Cardas wide room placement - a bit narrow and long on the speaker to seat distance, but this allows me to leave them set up. Proper placement is in front of the doorways, of course.

Summer camp version of the sock shot. I've worn these socks all day every day but a few since June 1.

[Steve Manning]

Very nice Bob .... good choice on the socks too.

[TEK]

Congrats bob! Happy to hear that you have got them up and running!

[scottvalentin]

Congrats Bob - sounds like you are truly enjoying the fruits of your hard work!

[Renron]

Man, I'd give my left sock to sit there with you enjoying a cold beverage.
Happy, Happy man.
Ron

[jwanck11]

They look great(!) Bob, Congrats!

I 'd love to hear them - and was intrigued when I saw you mentioned they "disappear." I have listened to an awful lot of speakers in my time in everything from the average homeowners room to professionally prepared environments and the only speaker I have ever thought it appropriate to lay claim to that descriptor was the Statements...

[BobEllis]

Thanks. I haven't heard Statements to compare to, but with a lot of recordings the sound is just there, even 135° off axis.

My girlfriend had to go back to the world to work last week. She said her car stereo was like listening to music through a wax paper and toilet paper tube kazoo...

[dar47]

Haha, she gets it and now any new front end additions will bring more smiles from both of you two!

Statements are mustang GT, Ardents are Ferrari 488GTB.

Now listen to a well recorded piece you have never heard before on the Ardents and then on something else, it's even more dramatic:B

[Renron]

"Statements are mustang GT, Ardents are Ferrari 488GTB." It doesn't have to be electric pistachio does it? Red is nice. Black is really nice.

I LOVE my modified Statement Center channel, by FAR the best center I've ever heard. Period.

I think Tek built an Ardent center, yes? That would better the Statement. But at a HUGE cost. Tweeter alone is about the cost of a statement CC.
Ron

[dar47]

Well, you can swap out the 6640 for a 6600 and use some wavecor 7" modwoofs and you have a very good match!

[Steve Manning]

"Statements are mustang GT, Ardents are Ferrari 488GTB." It doesn't have to be electric pistachio does it? Red is nice. Black is really nice.

I LOVE my modified Statement Center channel, by FAR the best center I've ever heard. Period.

I think Tek built an Ardent center, yes? That would better the Statement. But at a HUGE cost. Tweeter alone is about the cost of a statement CC.
Ron

What about yellow .....

[JonMarsh]

What about yellow .....

[ATTACH=CONFIG]26440[/ATTACH]

Yes, Yellow is just fine! :T

[Renron]

Well, I'll be damned. Dar47 that is one beautiful center channel, I'm sure it sounds Super-Fine. In a totally different price range than the Statement though.
I dislike yellow anything, but that is absolutely gorgeous. I may have to rethink my aversion to yellow. Steve, your a trouble maker..............
Hard to go wrong with black.
Ron

[Steve Manning]

Well, I'll be damned. Dar47 that is one beautiful center channel, I'm sure it sounds Super-Fine. In a totally different price range than the Statement though.
I dislike yellow anything, but that is absolutely gorgeous. I may have to rethink my aversion to yellow. Steve, your a trouble maker..............
Hard to go wrong with black.
Ron

Now Ron, you know I have my image to keep. :B

[BobEllis]

A friend who for years swore "I can't hear a difference" came by to listen to my Ardents. His first comment hearing Piano Man was "it sounds like you're in the room with him". Another convert to the Dark Side.

[dar47]

Oh ya, just like the sound of a Ferrari! Okay I will get off the car metaphors now, haha.

[TEK]

"Statements are mustang GT, Ardents are Ferrari 488GTB." It doesn't have to be electric pistachio does it? Red is nice. Black is really nice.

I LOVE my modified Statement Center channel, by FAR the best center I've ever heard. Period.

I think Tek built an Ardent center, yes? That would better the Statement. But at a HUGE cost. Tweeter alone is about the cost of a statement CC.
Ron

Nope, but it is one the "projects I want-to-do list"... But I need a design first. Want something in the style of a "layed down ardent"...

[Wayman]

A friend who for years swore "I can't hear a difference" came by to listen to my Ardents. His first comment hearing Piano Man was "it sounds like you're in the room with him". Another convert to the Dark Side.

Well now that the Ardents are "in the room" with you, I'm sure there will be a lot musical "guests" dropping by!

Amazing work Bob. The quality of this design has certainly inspired the best in those building it.

Cheers, Wayne

[BobEllis]

Thanks, Wayne. I think the Ardents are a step beyond "in the room with you". You hear the space where the recording was made. Piano Man sounds like I'm in a dive bar singalong, a lot of classical music sounds like I'm in a large hall.

[Renron]

I would agree with that assessment, even with my neutered Ardents I hear the "space" / boundaries of the recording rooms. Very soft echos / reflections can be heard for the first time. Whoa. One particular song, classical acoustic guitar, I can hear his fingers touch the wood body of the guitar after an aggressive strumming the strings. Hola me amigo.
Ron

[BobEllis]

Working on my proper bases. Never been very good at mitered joints. Dry fit looked decent, but when it came time to glue up... All I can say is thank goodness for the gap filling properties of thickened epoxy. No pictures until finished, but there will be a fair amount of filler under the flat black paint. The second one is much better than the first. If they were going to be visible I'd redo, but I am running low on BB ply.

I'm still amazed by these speakers. New details in so much of my music collection. Play list is all tracks shuffled. Even things you wouldn't expect to have low level detail shows up with good stuff - who'd have thought there was much subtle detail to be heard from The Clash? I find myself much more drawn in to large complex pieces than I had been.

Chilly today, the cat knows how to keep warm.

[Steve Manning]

Working on my proper bases. Never been very good at mitered joints. Dry fit looked decent, but when it came time to glue up... All I can say is thank goodness for the gap filling properties of thickened epoxy. No pictures until finished, but there will be a fair amount of filler under the flat black paint. The second one is much better than the first. If they were going to be visible I'd redo, but I am running low on BB ply.

I'm still amazed by these speakers. New details in so much of my music collection. Play list is all tracks shuffled. Even things you wouldn't expect to have low level detail shows up with good stuff - who'd have thought there was much subtle detail to be heard from The Clash? I find myself much more drawn in to large complex pieces than I had been.

Chilly today, the cat knows how to keep warm.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]26483[/ATTACH]

Was the cat supervising on the first or the second cabinet?

[BobEllis]

That's the A75 idling at 450W. At today's 60° ambient it's 110° and the hot spot's only 116° so quite attractive as a cat warmer.

[Renron]

Happy Kitty,
The A75 should have enough umph to push those drivers right out of the box! Then again..........
I was enjoying Fleetwood Mac turned up on my Honey Badger Amp, it was the first time that amp ever got warmer than room temp. 8 Mississippi was as long as I could touch them, what a fantastic sound. I'll post more in my thread.

Bob, have you tried Bug Head Emperor? I was shocked at how lifelike it sounded. I deleted Foobar2000.
Ron

[BobEllis]

I hadn't heard BHE - will give it a try. I've been using JRiver. My computer's SPDIF is limited to 96 kHz output. JRiver seems to do a good job with downconverting higher rates, but I'm looking forward to connecting to my Oppo BDP103 which can output the high sample rate files natively. JRiver's digital volume control doesn't match the quality of running it wide open digitally and controlling the volume with the cheap plastic pot in the Schiit Sys "passive preamp". Detail is lost.

Going back to civilization (insulated and heated home) in a couple of weeks and I'll be able to test various amps into my Ardents. My Honey Badger and Leach both run on essentially the same rails as the Leach, 58-60V so peak power should be similar. The A75 front end supply is regulated, the others are not. Kitty won't be happy because there's not as much wildlife to watch. But at least it won't be 44° in the bedroom when we wake up like this morning. Yesterday's post bike ride shower was rushed so we could be dressed again before it got too cold.

[BobEllis]

Bases look better with a bit of filler, sanded and painted. Tomorrow begins the rebuild of the crossovers to get them into the bases.

[BobEllis]

Bases complete, crossovers installed and speakers moved to their winter home. Here is one next to what it is replacing. Funny this project started as bass bins for the MT, morphed into a poor man's ardent then this full version. Talk about mission creep.



Hooked up and listening with the Oppo BDP-103 as a preamp. If I hadn't heard these through my Schiit Modi Multibit I think I'd have been disappointed. With this front end it's only marginally better on top than the Excel MT. The shimmering tail of cymbals is missing. The bottom end hasn't got the weight I've been hearing. Social events preclude installing the little Schiit for now, but it's a high priority item as soon as I get time. Glamour shots to follow.

[Renron]

Very nice Bob, it looks great. I'd say they, but "there can be only one".
Quite the sonic difference I imagine from the bookshelf speaker next to it. LOL.
Surprised to hear about the dullness of the OPPO, I had the first run BDP-83 and thought it sounded terrific. On the other hand, even my el cheapo DAC blows it away with the details and clarity. Rolling Op Amps really opened it up. No lack of bottom end fullness with mine.
Let me know when you get your Schiit together and your happy with in room placement. Would you be willing to compare the DACs if I sent you mine as a loaner for a week?
Ron

[BobEllis]

Sure, and I can send you mine so you can decide for yourself.

[Renron]

Your a good man Bob,
PM on it's way.
Ron

[BobEllis]

Ah, much better with the ModiMB back in the chain. Bass authority is back along with the treble detail. I can't quite sell Cardas positioning in a living room but they are the proper distance from the sides and about 18" closer to the back wall than specified with the listening position the proper distance. Someday while she's at work I'll pull the speakers out and move the couch back, but I'm very happy with the sound as is.

I tried toeing in so the centerlines met 2' behind me. Laser sharp focused image, but center weighted. Back out to pointing straight ahead, listening position 30 degrees off axis and the image is nearly as focused but now extends beyond the speakers on many recordings. Perfect. My girlfriend noticed the imaging shift.

With the DIYAUDIO Honey Badger amp there seems to be a little less top end detail than with the A75. Time to start rolling amps.

[wkhanna]

ahhhh......now the real fun starts.
with the resolution & accuracy of speakers like these, the finest of details can be detected by various other equipment & room placement.

well done, gentlemen!

[JonMarsh]

Ah, much better with the ModiMB back in the chain. Bass authority is back along with the treble detail. I can't quite sell Cardas positioning in a living room but they are the proper distance from the sides and about 18" closer to the back wall than specified with the listening position the proper distance. Someday while she's at work I'll pull the speakers out and move the couch back, but I'm very happy with the sound as is.

I tried toeing in so the centerlines met 2' behind me. Laser sharp focused image, but center weighted. Back out to pointing straight ahead, listening position 30 degrees off axis and the image is nearly as focused but now extends beyond the speakers on many recordings. Perfect. My girlfriend noticed the imaging shift.

With the DIYAUDIO Honey Badger amp there seems to be a little less top end detail than with the A75. Time to start rolling amps.

A steep and slippery slope that should ultimately take you to an interesting destination.

[BobEllis]

Oh well, it's my only expensive hobby other than bicycling, photography, woodworking... Uh oh.

[JonMarsh]

Yes, in the world, there are normal people, and there are "hobbyists". Anyone who comes to HTguide likely fits in that latter category, for which there is never enough time and resources for all the ways one can spend one's days in this life...

[Steve Manning]

Oh well, it's my only expensive hobby other than bicycling, photography, woodworking... Uh oh.

These days Bob, there is no such thing as a "cheap" hobby.

[Renron]

Amen, Steve, Amen.

[BobEllis]

Damn you, Jon Marsh.

I had my Aleph J on the bench for a cap upgrade when the power went out. What to do with my time waiting for it to be restored? My girlfriend is out of town so furniture got moved to the back of the room and the couch and speakers moved to the Cardas prescribed positions. The speakers had been the Cardas width bit only 3 feet from the front wall (Cardas says 8.5') with the couch about 10 feet back. Power came back and I started playback from the server in another room. It was I immediately obvious that the sound was different.

The play list was just random tracks that JRiver picked, not chosen for recording quality. Oppo BDP-103 as a preamp to Honey Badger. (Least preferred configuration) sin in the sweet spot and Wow! Imaging far better than I remember getting from the Schiit Momby DAC (which easily beat the Oppo but is still out on loan). Amazingly lifelike images with way more depth than with the speakers nearer the walls.

It's going to be hard to go back. Somehow I think I'll lose the "we don't need a dining table in the great room" argument. I can see myself moving furniture around when she goes to work. The only down side is in HT mode I'm so far from the front wall a 60" TV seems small. A 140" screen would be about right. Although in the usual spot the front of the speakers is a foot or more in front of the equipment rack in between I think I need to clean that space out and move gear to the corner.

[Steve Manning]

Sounds like you need to put some of that furniture on wheels Bob ..... make it faster to get out of the way.

[BobEllis]

Yep. Going to keep a dolly handy for the speakers.