Mini-Statement Rebuild + New Statment Monitors

[JaxLax]

It's been a long time coming, but I'm finally going to be rebuilding my Mini-Statements and breaking apart my statement center channel and cannibalizing the parts to make some new monitors (more Qs on that later).

I'll go ahead and answer the questions I see coming: I am re-inheriting my speakers as they were gifted to my parents when I moved into a new home with in walls already built in. Now my parents are downsizing AND we bought a new home (about 2 months ago).

The Minis will be getting new cabinets and new grills. Going to go veneer this time as the wife wants something to match the floors. [plus the old ones were painted black when delivered to my parents].

The Monitors are a from scratch build.

I saw where the monitors called for a RS180-4, but I do have the two RS180S-8 from my center. Can anyone think of an easy way to make them usable (I'd rather not spend another $100 and toss/sell them)? If it makes any difference, I would be using the Near Wall version of the crossover design from Curt.

Thanks for any help and I'll keep updating this along the way!

Original Statement Setup:

Image not available

[Jim Holtz]

A couple thoughts.

I'm not aware of any way to use the RS180-8's in the Monitors without a crossover redesign which would be up to you to redesign.

Since this is a new build, have you considered the Finalists? They're not a lot more money and are a significant upgrade to the Monitors. They can also be used close wall if desired. Kits are available at Meniscus.

HTH

Jim

[JaxLax]

OK then Jim!
Changed my plans, somewhat, going to rebuild the minis and center and go with the monitors.

How bad of an idea would it be to shrink the depth on the center from 13 to 10" and widen the cabinet from 24 to 32" (although to keep the interior volume the same it'd be an actual 31.8")?

The capital delta for the Finalists is around $150. I understand that they should perform better, but is that performance really worth going to a different setup? Am I just being dumb for worrying about the difference in sound especially in changing from a ribbon tweeter to a soft dome? Also, how big is the cabinet for the Finalists?

Thanks for all your input!

[Jim Holtz]

OK then Jim!
Changed my plans, somewhat, going to rebuild the minis and center and go with the monitors.

How bad of an idea would it be to shrink the depth on the center from 13 to 10" and widen the cabinet from 24 to 32" (although to keep the interior volume the same it'd be an actual 31.8")?

The capital delta for the Finalists is around $150. I understand that they should perform better, but is that performance really worth going to a different setup? Am I just being dumb for worrying about the difference in sound especially in changing from a ribbon tweeter to a soft dome? Also, how big is the cabinet for the Finalists?

Thanks for all your input!

Curt has been asked about cabinet changes before and his determination is that the cabinet width and depth dimensions shouldn't be changed more 10% or it'll start to affect the crossover.

If the Monitors are a from scratch build, the Finalists are about $95 more based on the cost of the Meniscus kits.

The Finalists go deeper, have better mids and will play louder. I love ribbons but the RS28F is an excellent dome with a lot of the "air" people love about ribbons.

The Finalists cabinets are larger. They measure 24"T x 11"W x 15 1/2"D. They offer the ability to plug the mids, slide them within 8" - 12" of the wall behind them with the flip of a switch. They are very flexible.

Statements Monitors are excellent and there's no reason not to build them if they are a better match to your system. The designs Curt and I have developed since do kick the sound quality up a notch though due to the NE mids.

Your choice...

Jim

[JaxLax]

Jim,

again, thanks for the advice.

I'm going to spend some time figuring out the mounting/installation for the monitors and if the added volume will fit in the spaces I had in mind.

Thanks again!

[JaxLax]

and the dust has settled



so now we begin the gluing.

[JaxLax]

Well, after getting a quarter of the way down, I scrapped all the wood above and RECUT everything!
apparently I tapped my fence doing the first baffle cuts and all my subsequent cuts were 1/8" out of square...so by the time I got to the small stuff the compounded error across all the pieces was making the pieces fail to line up to my own quality expectations.
So $65 in MDF purchased again and triple check each and every cut and piece and we are back in business.

Also, taking my time to do all the little things early this go 'round. Got the tunnels all glued up and will be removing a 2x2x.25" section on the tops of them to give the tweeter a little more clearance/breathing room. So I've stalled on the gluing and waiting for a day to get the routing done. [been on vacation and had friends visiting most weekends lately]

Dealing with monitor mounting issues in the veneer questions thread if anyone wants to chime in with thoughts over there too.
And now that I think of it, I need to figure out the center channel mount too...

[kevinm]

I've done that before. Good decision on re-cutting. Nothing less fun than trying to make a square box with non-square cuts

[TEK]

Oh man, that SUCKS!

"Got the tunnels all glued up"
No pictures? It did not happend ;-)

[JaxLax]

Oh man, that SUCKS!

"Got the tunnels all glued up"
No pictures? It did not happend ;-)

You asked for the MOST BORING PICTURES EVER!
Enjoy.


I even put the front baffles together and got the dimensions drawn up! ROUTER PARTY is imminent!

[Philzeemon]

JaxLax...some of my favorite hand tools, The architects scale and the plasti-resin square (incredibly stable regardless the weather)

[JaxLax]

JaxLax...some of my favorite hand tools, The architects scale and the plasti-resin square (incredibly stable regardless the weather)

I'm a mechanical engineer by trade.
I have 6-8 different scaled rulers, 2 T squares, a few plastic squares, more pencils than a human should have, a few compasses, a few oval tracers, tape measurers from 3' to 150', an electric distance finder for other needs.... If it exists, I can measure/draw it.

[JaxLax]

Center is all glued up.
Moving onto the floor standers.
Pics to follow.

[JaxLax]

Doing things slowly

Slow, but steady progress.




Next up, removing XO from old cabinets and getting them wired, then testing the drivers, then gluing up all the foam I got in the mail.
Then we'll do the final sanding and prep for veneer.

Looks like I'll be doing the complete 3.0 then coming back to do the surrounds. Funds got tight all of sudden, but I'll get the boxes finished up then just go into a holding pattern on picking up the kit from Meniscus when I have the scratch. [I have all the parts for the 3.0 already since these are basically just a new cabinet setup]

[kevinm]

Looking great!

[JaxLax]

Ok, well, got a bunch of unexpected free time last night and this morning and made a bunch of progress.

Got the 3.0 all together except the rear panels. Put on some bondo to clean up some edges that got bumped (not necessary due to veneer, but I want it perfect at every step). Got the rears glued up since I had nothing else to do while other stuff dried.
Test fit all the holes and made any small trims/adjustment necessary for full fit.

Lastly a shot of everything left to be cut/trimmed/routed. Need to go ahead with the cups cutouts and do a flush bit around the top level of the base. Got all the XOs done (since these are rebuilds on the cabinets). So those will go in next, then foam, then test and seal.

oh, here are your pictures:

[JaxLax]

Progress

XOs installed.
foam installed.
just completed the bench test with drivers.

Need to foam the rear and seal them up!

Pictures to follow.

Once the backs are on: clean up floorstanders bases, roundovers on the edges, 150 full cabinet sandpaper pass (rough it up for veneer).
Need to decide and order the veneer in the next couple of days so that it can get here and have time to acclimate.

again, pictures to follow tomorrow.

[JaxLax]

Photos

Center Front puking up drivers:



Center Foam and XO:



Floor Standers Foam and XOs:



Floor Stander tests:

[TEK]

Thats some impressive progress. Good work!

[JaxLax]

Thats some impressive progress. Good work!

Thanks!

Slow process, but moving along.

[JaxLax]

Just more photos

Center all glued up, taped, ready for final sanding, round overs, and then veneer prep.

Image not available

Second floor stander cabinet in process of sealing.

Image not available

[kevinm]

Making tons of progress! IT's going to fell pretty good when you get those done!

[JaxLax]

it's going to be slow looking for a little while.
Need to cut out the rear tunnels, sand, fill, sand, round overs, sand.
And I don't currently have the funding to order veneer, so they may get put together and in the living room around Thanksgiving.

Hopefully staring at unfinished MDF will help us find a little more to scrape together.

[TEK]

it's going to be slow looking for a little while.
Need to cut out the rear tunnels, sand, fill, sand, round overs, sand.
And I don't currently have the funding to order veneer, so they may get put together and in the living room around Thanksgiving.

Hopefully staring at unfinished MDF will help us find a little more to scrape together.

http://www.iqspeakers.co.uk/#!build-tips-for-diy/

"ROUTER A SMALL V IN JOIN IF PAINTING
If you itend to paint your speaker you need to hide the join. A small V routered into the join is easy fillable with dry wall jointing compund seal this prior to filling with clear MDF primer. This will stop the join between the two panels showing through. Believe me it will show unless you do this.

Might be a good idea...

[JaxLax]

http://www.iqspeakers.co.uk/#!build-tips-for-diy/
Might be a good idea...

oddly enough, my wife decided she wants them painted white (eventually doing built ins in the room) so veneering is out.
Interesting thought about the seam.

I guess I get to spend a few hours investigating painting mdf and techniques.

But on a better note, I got the rear tunnels opened up and all that's left would be sanding filler and I'm ready to start painting.

[kevinm]

Hey Jax,

If you end up going white, I would recommend wrapping the box in some really thin hardwood to hide the seams. Dar explained it one of my threads here http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...o-Black-How-To.

Until I started wrapping the cabinet in hardwood, I was always battling the seams. Tons and tons of bondo can hide stuff pretty well, but in all honesty, I think putting the extra layer of hardwood works the best.

[TEK]

You also have Jon's solution that he is very happy with and have used on several builds.
Coat the box in epoxy before painting it and sesl off the edges that way.

[JaxLax]

You also have Jon's solution that he is very happy with and have used on several builds.
Coat the box in epoxy before painting it and sesl off the edges that way.

The plan was to get a quart/gallon of oil based sealer on them before final color.

[TEK]

I think the point with the epoxy is that it created a outer "shell" around the wood that gives a stable foundation for the finish/paint.
Not sure oil will give that result.
Maybe jon could chime in here...

[JaxLax]

Oil-based primers also sand smoother after drying than latex primers which can tend to gum up sandpaper.
Oil-based primer really penetrates bare wood and protects much better than latex.

here in the US, I'll grab a gallon of Kilz and go at it.

[TEK]

My understanding/experience with primer is that it is very well suited to fill small pores and imperfections and let you build up a perfect finish.
But the primer I'm used to is usually "soft", meaning that any movement in the wood or joints will cause the primer (and paint) in that area to change and for example seems between the wood parts to be visible.
From what I understand with Epoxy this will make a hard surface that will not be prone for these kind of problem in the years to come.

But I really are just referring to what I have heard and read, mostly in here. I'm sure lots of differents method may work just as well.

[JaxLax]

I should get the primer this weekend and maybe start stacking it early next week and I'll report back with photos.

[JaxLax]

Primer is on and sanded (pics to follow later).
Wife has settled on a paint, she wants Benjamin Moore ADVANCE Semi Gloss (Decorator White) to match trim and shelving.
So thoughts on how to apply the paint?
Good brush? Roller (3/4 dap to 1/2 dap finish)? I have a Wagner Flexio 590 sprayer too.

Regardless, I'll probably do 2 layers of paint, sand with high grade, then finish coat. I'll have plenty of time as I'm only working Mon/Tues until the new year.

[kevinm]

Roller wont be smooth once you get close up (<3 ft), but is generally more forgiving of mistakes underneath the paint. Spraying will look great with little-to finish work, but is not forgiving of mistakes in the wood because it is so naturally smooth. Good news is white is fairly forgiving.

[bostonmurf]

Hi guys, i just finished a pair or speakers in white and thought id share my method. very similar to everyone elses suggestion although i never thought of using thin hardwood Kevin, thats genius. ill do than on my next pair for sure! so i sealed them with 2 coats of titebond/water mix. about 80/20 it thins really fast so don't over do it with the water (apply this with a small foam roller). lightly sand with 220 and primer with kilz oil based primer (2 or 3 coats). then finish with a couple of coast of rustolem oil based white paint. i used satin as i don't like too much reflection - and it helps hide any imperfections. i used a wagner airless sprayer for the primer and main color, be carefull of runs as the paint goes on fast. it does have a textured finish but i was going for that anyway. i think a mirrored/reflective finish can draw the eye away from the drivers. any small imperfections after the primer stage were filled with spackle, it dries fast and sands easy so you don't have to sand too hard and damage the paint. hope that helps.

[JaxLax]

Hi guys, i just finished a pair or speakers in white and thought id share my method. very similar to everyone elses suggestion although i never thought of using thin hardwood Kevin, thats genius. ill do than on my next pair for sure! so i sealed them with 2 coats of titebond/water mix. about 80/20 it thins really fast so don't over do it with the water (apply this with a small foam roller). lightly sand with 220 and primer with kilz oil based primer (2 or 3 coats). then finish with a couple of coast of rustolem oil based white paint. i used satin as i don't like too much reflection - and it helps hide any imperfections. i used a wagner airless sprayer for the primer and main color, be carefull of runs as the paint goes on fast. it does have a textured finish but i was going for that anyway. i think a mirrored/reflective finish can draw the eye away from the drivers. any small imperfections after the primer stage were filled with spackle, it dries fast and sands easy so you don't have to sand too hard and damage the paint. hope that helps.

Cabinets are MDF, then I went with filler and sanded that smooth, then rough sanded (120 grit) over the entire cabinet to open the pores, then 3 layers of oil based primer, sanded primer down with 220 to flat. Very few imperfections remain through this process. The main sides are smooth, but some of the corners aren't as sharp as I'd like, but that's what happens with MDF.

Think I'll go with a brush on the bottoms to just make sure there's paint there, then use the sprayer for the remainder of the cabinet and do 5-6 light passes over a day or two to minimize runs/drips. Hell, I'll probably get the sprayer dialed in on some test pieces, then let me wife do the spraying so she can say she helped!

Thanks for the help guys!

[bostonmurf]

awesome! looking forward to see completed pics, I'm sure they'll look amazing!

[JaxLax]

as promised

headed out to get the paint tomorrow afternoon. might just get the painting done this weekend.
which would be nice to have at least the floorstanders installed by Christmas (I'm expecting the bracket/hanger for the center for Christmas; plus I'll have to get in the attic to run the wires and hopefully I'm getting some ceiling surrounds so I'll only have to be up there once)

[JaxLax]

Resurrecting!

I'm bringing it back since I'm working on the Micro-Statements and wanted to show y'all how they ended up.
Here's how they sat a few weeks ago along with their new 18" ported brother from PE (powered by bridged iNuke 1000).

Image not available

Yes, my living room is dominated by my children. I'm over it.

[Jim Holtz]

If you flip the center so the ribbon is on the bottom, it'll sound better. The sound has an upward lobe which becomes downward when the center is mounted high. Give it a try and see what you think.

Jim

[JaxLax]

If you flip the center so the ribbon is on the bottom, it'll sound better. The sound has an upward lobe which becomes downward when the center is mounted high. Give it a try and see what you think.

Jim

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh that means I'll have to flip the feet.
fine.

I'm going to add a round over on the fronts of all 3 and repaint; so I'll do it then.