Wavecor Ardent Journal - the first Builds

[benthe8track]

They sure are shaping up quite nicely! Sanding sealer is definitely something I wish I had employed instead of just building with CV. If only for the fact that it would have saved me something that mimics sanding tungsten carbide. Looking forward to more pics!

The simmed impedance that Jon posted a while back suggested that these should be pretty easy to drive, if being relatively insensitive. They qualify almost as an 8 ohm load and don't have any difficult phase angles to drive either. With most amplifiers on these loudspeakers, you'll be voltage limited, ie the amp will clip because you've run out of head room, NOT current. This is a good thing. It will mean that you're never going to trigger the protection circuitry and that the amplifier, if of less than perfect design, will sound better. Amplifier flaws tend to be exaggerated when the load impedance drops.

The receiver should be fine.

I'm assembling my budget for my ncore amp build for these Wavecor Ardents and need some help from you sparks and wires guys. Based on the fact that the speaker loads will be reasonable what would you say if I'm considering a dual mono bridged NC400s? That would give me about 800watts into 8ohms. I could save about 500 dollars if I used the SMPS1200 to run each channel...unless you guys can convince me that 500 bucks is money well spent for 4 SMPS600s.

[dar47]

Looks great, now your cooking with gas and it's only wednesday!

I don't know a bought righteous, like I said just manic that day. Can't wait to see those pop with some finish on them. :T

[5th element]

Based on the fact that the speaker loads will be reasonable what would you say if I'm considering a dual mono bridged NC400s? That would give me about 800watts into 8ohms. I could save about 500 dollars if I used the SMPS1200 to run each channel...unless you guys can convince me that 500 bucks is money well spent for 4 SMPS600s.

So you're saying that your two options at the moment are 2 Ncores powered by one SMPS1200. Or 4 Ncores powered by 4 individual SMPS600s? How about you save even more money and use 2SMPS600s, one for each pair of Ncores? The extra voltage swing capability of the bridged amplifiers will only ever be used for short term transients, otherwise the loudspeakers would blow up. The SMPS600 is capable of drawing 1100 watts from the wall before the protection kicks in and given a pretty mediocre efficiency figure of 80%, it should be capable of putting out ~900 watts for a very short time.

If you really want to go for 2 SMPS1200s then by all means do so. There is certainly no point in getting 4 SMPS600s. In fact because the bridged amplifiers will be driving the load in series with one another, it's probably a better idea to have a common PSU for each pair.

[JonMarsh]

Ardent Spring Break Wednesday evening update

Well, some days I'm very busy but the forward motion in conventional terms doesn't look like it's there at all!

Thats because almost all of my time was spent sorting out my great spray ventilation experiment, based around the Jenny explosion proof ventilation fan mounted to my dipole test stand as the core of the temp "spray booth" cum air mover. What that involved included reversing the motor wiring to change the fan direction, removing and disassembling and reversing the fan blades, cutting out a larger hole for the fan in the dipole test stand, wiring up the 8A motor speed control and a 20 ft power cable, and in general spending the majority of my day on this particular infrastructure effort, which I believe will pay off for some furniture finishing projects and other efforts down the road, but right now just took up the majority of my Wednesday! (well, I did get that top facet bevel veneered on the cabinet...)

But after I build out the simple filter mount for the 20" square high grade furnace filters I'm using (3M only, of course, Hank!)

So, fairly soon tomorrow, I should be back to truly productive activity...

[JonMarsh]

They sure are shaping up quite nicely! Sanding sealer is definitely something I wish I had employed instead of just building with CV. If only for the fact that it would have saved me something that mimics sanding tungsten carbide. Looking forward to more pics!



I'm assembling my budget for my ncore amp build for these Wavecor Ardents and need some help from you sparks and wires guys. Based on the fact that the speaker loads will be reasonable what would you say if I'm considering a dual mono bridged NC400s? That would give me about 800watts into 8ohms. I could save about 500 dollars if I used the SMPS1200 to run each channel...unless you guys can convince me that 500 bucks is money well spent for 4 SMPS600s.

You know, this sounds like creating the digital equivalent of my Aragon Palladiums. My thought though, is that this may be pretty serious overkill... compared with just a pair. The SMPS600 is designed specifically for interfacing with the NC400- with 8 ohm loads you could use just 1 SMPS600 for two NC400. But to my knowledge, the SMPS1200 is setup to interface with UCD modules, not the NCORE 400- I've seen some discussion about compatibility- the connector setup isn't the same, and I don't know if the voltages and control interface are compatible- check the data sheets and manuals carefully. A conservative rating for the NCORE 400 might be 150 watts at 8 ohms; bridged that would be 300 at 16 and around 700 at 8 ohms- and over 1 kW at 4 ohms.

I've never had a speaker I could really unleash the Palladiums on- i really expect an optimum combo for the Wavecor Ardent would be between 150 and 300W/ch at 8 ohms, the latter if you want the most SPL. Use more with care... :W

[benthe8track]

Well, some days I'm very busy but the forward motion in conventional terms doesn't look like it's there at all!

Thats because almost all of my time was spent sorting out my great spray ventilation experiment, based around the Jenny explosion proof ventilation fan mounted to my dipole test stand as the core of the temp "spray booth" cum air mover. What that involved included reversing the motor wiring to change the fan direction, removing and disassembling and reversing the fan blades, cutting out a larger hole for the fan in the dipole test stand, wiring up the 8A motor speed control and a 20 ft power cable, and in general spending the majority of my day on this particular infrastructure effort, which I believe will pay off for some furniture finishing projects and other efforts down the road, but right now just took up the majority of my Wednesday! (well, I did get that top facet bevel veneered on the cabinet...)

But after I build out the simple filter mount for the 20" square high grade furnace filters I'm using (3M only, of course, Hank!)

So, fairly soon tomorrow, I should be back to truly productive activity...

Is this setup going to be a more or less permanent installation? The production shop where our cabs were finished looked pretty simple. More like a lean to open air side draft setup. I've never seen anything like it before and was expecting more of an automotive style downdraft booth.

You know, this sounds like creating the digital equivalent of my Aragon Palladiums. My thought though, is that this may be pretty serious overkill... compared with just a pair. The SMPS600 is designed specifically for interfacing with the NC400- with 8 ohm loads you could use just 1 SMPS600 for two NC400. But to my knowledge, the SMPS1200 is setup to interface with UCD modules, not the NCORE 400- I've seen some discussion about compatibility- the connector setup isn't the same, and I don't know if the voltages and control interface are compatible- check the data sheets and manuals carefully. A conservative rating for the NCORE 400 might be 150 watts at 8 ohms; bridged that would be 300 at 16 and around 700 at 8 ohms- and over 1 kW at 4 ohms.

I've never had a speaker I could really unleash the Palladiums on- i really expect an optimum combo for the Wavecor Ardent would be between 150 and 300W/ch at 8 ohms, the latter if you want the most SPL. Use more with care... :W

It looks like you need to do a little re-pinning of the harnesses (or soldering, I haven't seen them yet) but a few people have done it.



Interestingly enough it's actually 100 dollars cheaper to use the SMPS1200s instead of the newer ncore specific SMPS600. I'm not sure why yet, I'll have to do some more digging. So far I think I could do that for <3k, would save a grand if I didn't go the bridged route. Some people have said they sound better bridged but who knows. The important thing is I found some sweet VU meters for this thing.

[JonMarsh]

Is this setup going to be a more or less permanent installation? The production shop where our cabs were finished looked pretty simple. More like a lean to open air side draft setup. I've never seen anything like it before and was expecting more of an automotive style downdraft booth.

No, that's the whole idea, the main part can be toted off into my storage unit or into the storage shed we're going to build here; part of it is just light weight panels that can be attached by light duty hinges, or, (today) the universal fastener, duct tape!

Where did you find the VU meters? I have looked on eBay a couple of times and found a few different things, but none I was keen about if one contracted mono blocks. i responded once on that topic in detail but SOMEHOW it got lost in the ether, never posted. I think you've mapped out the necessary changes; how compatible are the voltage levels for the main supply and aux supply? I should have a look at this, BUT I'm trying to avoid anything that distracts me from the prime directive....


Ardent Spring Break!

[benthe8track]

No, that's the whole idea, the main part can be toted off into my storage unit or into the storage shed we're going to build here; part of it is just light weight panels that can be attached by light duty hinges, or, (today) the universal fastener, duct tape!

Where did you find the VU meters? I have looked on eBay a couple of times and found a few different things, but none I was keen about if one contracted mono blocks. i responded once on that topic in detail but SOMEHOW it got lost in the ether, never posted. I think you've mapped out the necessary changes; how compatible are the voltage levels for the main supply and aux supply? I should have a look at this, BUT I'm trying to avoid anything that distracts me from the prime directive....


Ardent Spring Break!

In for pictures of the spray booth!
There are a lot of options on eBay but most look cheap. These are the nicest ones I've found so far:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Pieces-Wri...-/271313159608
They still require a power supply of some sort to operate which I'd have to find still.

I'll have to dig into the voltages a bit more, I'm similarly pressed for time. However, I just received a call that a fly-in 7 on 7 off position opened up for me up north and is mine if I want it. So looks like I'll have a lot more time for projects in the future.

[JonMarsh]

How's your wife to be feel about the 7 on, 7 off routine? I imagine it's a bit grueling for the 7 on, but 7 off in a row could be pretty nice...

The meters look pretty good! :T and they have a few of them to sell! I'll have to check those out, see if it makes sense to add on to the existing one's I'm doing...

You could probably power that board off the aux winding with a series pass or shunt regulator; I was looking at some Tentlabs regulators for that (bought some even) in order to do a slight gain stage, before I decided to K.I.S.S. it, finding out about the RG gain set resistor and now just planning to tweak that a bit. Keeping it simple (sort of) for now...

[5th element]

In for pictures of the spray booth!
There are a lot of options on eBay but most look cheap. These are the nicest ones I've found so far:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Pieces-Wri...-/271313159608
They still require a power supply of some sort to operate which I'd have to find still.

Don't forget that you also need the driver board apparently to make those work. Both units will function off of 12 volts and the AUX voltage output of the SMPS1200 is 12 volts, so it looks like you've got your power supply right there.

Bridging does several things.

1) Effectively doubles the voltage output of the amplifier.
2) Each amplifier sees half the load impedance.
3) Gives you push/pull operation.
4) Makes you think you've got a bridged amplifier.

1) Will make things sound better if you are clipping the amplifier, if you are not then it wont do a thing for the sound quality.
2) This will only make things sound worse as everything becomes less linear as load impedances drop.
3) This will cancel out even order distortion products that could well make things sound better, but if the Ncores distortion is already into the noise floor then it's a moot point.
4) This is a big deal, subjectivity is governed by one thing and one thing only, the human brain. Thinking something is going to sound better will almost always make it sound better. Nothing sounds better than knowing you own 2 of the best class D amplifiers in the world than knowing you own 4 of the best class D amplifiers in the world.

Bridging is one of those things that you do if it's necessary to reach ones end goals (ie for technical reasons), otherwise you don't really do it. Personally I would go for a pair of Ncores and only upgrade to a quad if things are suspected of clipping.

[JonMarsh]

Bridging is one of those things that you do if it's necessary to reach ones end goals (ie for technical reasons), otherwise you don't really do it. Personally I would go for a pair of Ncores and only upgrade to a quad if things are suspected of clipping.

:T

That would be where I'm coming from, too- what remains to be seen is how well a single set will work. I'd hoped things would go fast enough this week that I'd have some time for them, but the way things look the final assembly of the Ardents won't happen until next weekend- crossovers will be done, and lacquer hardening over the week, before final rub out and sanding, if all goes well the next two days.

[5th element]

Well if the Ardents end up being around 83dB, the datasheet says 200 watts into 8 ohms. That's ~106dB @ 1 meter. Quite frankly a pair of that in a room is blisteringly loud from where my ears are standing, but then again it depends on the size of your room. You are only going to get 6 more dB for the bridged set up mind you, which is a heck of a lot of money for such a 'small' gain. But, if you really do listen at peaks that hit 110dB, you will probably need the extra pair of amps.

From my point of view it's still a case of listen, measure (the peak voltage with a scope) and see if it's really necessary.

[JonMarsh]

Wavecor Ardent Spring Break, Thursday edition!

A bit more progress today... I can enjoy the sweet smell of lacquer solvents!

Several preliminary tasks today- one was using the drill guide templates sent by the Winnipeg team, but using them for creating masonite plugs for spraying- just trace the outside with a permanent marker, then cut away on the trace with a good laminate blade, and the pieces just pop in snug as a bug in a rug, to use a really, really old saying...





Well, the home made spray lean to was ready to use by late morning- just had to glue up the filter frame with construction adhesive and let it setup a couple of hours... (don't laugh- it's homemade, with re-cycled speaker test stand stuff.. very practical! :T )

From the spraying side:




And a peak around back, with the Jenny fan quite visible.




Yeah, if this is the part where some wise guy say the whole thing looks like it's held together with baling wire and duct tape, well, you are 100% correctomundo! :B


However, pretty is as pretty does.... it did keep the vapor moving away from me, and overall the spraying went smoothly once I dialed in the flow control and pattern on the sprayer, shooting on one of the wings. Cleanup with lacquer thinner is fast and easy, just have to shoot a pint or so through to clean out the works (don't tell the California Air Resources Board on me.. however, it was not a spare the air day). (we had a lot of those last winter, what with the inversion systems we don't normally get that time of year).

With the turntable system for each cabinet, the spraying part was a total breeze...

















Today was just the two coats of sanding sealer- but this pretty well established the color and contrast of the birds eye maple. These are not AAA veneers, but they do still have pretty nice contrast and directional pop and depth as you move around, like all good curly/flame maple and birds eye maple should have. I think I'm going to be fairly happy with them.

It's a bit too late to do the sanding today, and we have a dinner date anyway, so first thing tomorrow the sealer sand, then if the conditions cooperate, back to spraying. Otherwise, very nice weather is forecast for Saturday, and I'll work on crossovers and sanding only tomorrow, perhaps the cut and route the sides of the new bases, too.

[5th element]

Those really are looking nice now And that is one big motor attached to that fan.

[dar47]

Hee Hee, Love the setup. :T

Nice little driver hole pugs, that was probably faster then taping all the holes by hand. I love the veneer and they should be a nice contrast to your big bad brown couple, B & H. You you spent a little time with the setup but you ended up with a nice little stress free spray centre.:T:T

Just think Jon with your thoughtful methodical approach, you are going to be finished before Ben gets his back even with our huge head start. :E

I'm glad to see your using your week off wisely and taking in some time for dinner with your girl, it adds to the enjoyment factor of this build.

[dar47]

You know looking at the lines of these speaker with the 3 different skins I have to say these are right up there with any commercial offering.:B

[JonMarsh]

I agree- and i particularly think they will look very sharp once the black grille panels are complete and mounted.

yes, I've been trying to do some balance in this time off, as GF has been very understanding and tolerant. Today I also got approval to take time off the begining of August for her neice's wedding up in Ashland Washington- that will take about a week. It's all a balancing act, but one must keep some balance, somehow.

[benthe8track]

Wow does it ever pop-- looking forward to the results with the lacquer!

[sdl2112]

Beautiful job!...that has always been one of my favorite combination, birds eye maple and lacquer...and you say you are just a wire and sparks guy:P

[JonMarsh]

Well, the nice weather decided to take a break today, so the Ardent Spring Break has to move indoors!

It's just barely drizzling, what folks in Ireland would call a gentle day- so for now I'm switching back to wires and sparks and the assembly of the second crossover. Fortunately the forecast looks solid for tomorrow, so I expect to get the sanding sealer sanded and about six coats of lacquer on the cabinet then. I'll probably also work on the crossover bases, though that may get deferred until Sunday. If things go well, I'll get the grille assemblies finished up on Sunday, too. It will be a busy weekend; I'm SO NOT looking forward to going back to work, but then there's been a ton of progress this week (about a month's worth of weekends or more!) so I surely can't complain.

This should work out well, in that the cabinets should have a week for the lacquer to harden before I do final wet sanding and buff them out.

With the weather what it is, I won't even feel guilty about taking the time to go to GF's monthly lunch with current and former IBM'ers. Who'd have thought- an Apple oriented guy and an IBM systems engineer getting together?

This is definitely going to be done to the wire, but so far, it still looks doable for May 3. Cross fingers, as William Shakespeare was rumored to have said, there's many a slip twixt the cup and the lip.

[JonMarsh]

BTW, after reviewing how much nitrocellulose lacquer I bought, (originally for the Isiris project) I was chagrined to realize I only had two 1 qt. cans on hand of gloss. To put this in perspective, 1 qt is just a bit more than needed for two coats on both cabinets, considering 15-20% dilution with lacquer thinner.

Fortunately, of all places, I was able to get more at the local ACE Hardware store in Alamo- they had that in stock, as well as satin (which I have a couple of cans of and am still debating whether to use for the final coat(s). They also had Watco Lacquer on hand, which isn't common to find in stock.

Maybe something to remember when you need some of the "good stuff". My main stash had been bought through Amazon, shipping in from out of state.

[benthe8track]

How's your wife to be feel about the 7 on, 7 off routine? I imagine it's a bit grueling for the 7 on, but 7 off in a row could be pretty nice...

We are kind of used to it, I've left for months at a time for years now--I'm a field guy at heart. She's going to be finishing up nursing at the UofC so I doubt she'll have much time for me anyways haha.

BTW, after reviewing how much nitrocellulose lacquer I bought, (originally for the Isiris project) I was chagrined to realize I only had two 1 qt. cans on hand of gloss. To put this in perspective, 1 qt is just a bit more than needed for two coats on both cabinets, considering 15-20% dilution with lacquer thinner.

Fortunately, of all places, I was able to get more at the local ACE Hardware store in Alamo- they had that in stock, as well as satin (which I have a couple of cans of and am still debating whether to use for the final coat(s). They also had Watco Lacquer on hand, which isn't common to find in stock.

Maybe something to remember when you need some of the "good stuff". My main stash had been bought through Amazon, shipping in from out of state.

At least with lacquer you can easily change things down the road. Worst case satin could be used as a stop gap until you have more time. I'm fighting a losing battle with gloss right now, at least that's the impression I get from my guy when I spoke to him today. Won't know until Monday though.

[JonMarsh]

A nursing degree WILL keep your wife busy- have had several friends that are RN's, and I like to keep up on medical stuff.

Sorry to hear that about the gloss... I'm still on the fence, but now I have 4 quarts of gloss and two of satin- that should be enough for up to 8 gloss coats and a satin top coat or two for now. All of that would take about 4-5 hours to put on. I could go for just a satin final coat or two for now, might be that discretion is the better part of valor.

I got about 80% of the second crossover done today- it would have been nearly 100%, but late in the afternoon the weather cleared up a bit, and I just got finished minutes ago with sanding out the sanding sealer with 220 grit- now the base is pretty firm and close to baby butt smooth, and the seams look better, too! :B

The weather is looking potentially iffy tomorrow- now they're talking about 30-40% chance of rain. I hope they're totally wrong... Sunday is similar.

And, to throw another monkey wrench in the schedule, I took a closer gander at the calendar, and realized that May 3 is NEXT Saturday- for some reason, I had it in my mind that I had one more weekend to work with... would make all the difference!

If the weather is funky, I'll try to work on the bases tomorrow- otherwise will have to do that on Sunday, maybe spend 30-45 minutes a night during the week- no time for more than that, to try to do assembly. And no final sand or buffing, but then if they can stand alone indoors for 5-6 days, they should at least harden up reasonably by then- the sanding sealer was in fine shape over night.

[JonMarsh]

Hmmm, another disappearing post!

Weather is sunny for now- supposed to warm up nicely, so I should be spraying by noon- that will give me half a day to do the lacquer coats, and a bit of time for them to set before I move them indoors.

It's going to be a busy day- I'm still thinking it's a gamble as to whether I can have these together without grilles but with basic functionality for going to Sacramento next Saturday- well, we'll see- I'm off to the storage unit to pick up my router table and some other bits I need to work on the bases. Still, all in all, it's been a productive week! No complaints there...

[JonMarsh]

Official Wavecor Ardent Spring Break Product Placement, Saturday April 26 Edition

For those of you tempted to build a similar spraying setup, here's the hot skinny on the only filter brand/model to consider:

[Adept]

They look fantastic. Big thumbs up!

[JonMarsh]

Ardent Spring Break Saturday Edition


Thanks! And welcome to HT Guide!

Just a few pics this afternoon during the lacquer spraying- the weather is cooperating, and things are moving along pretty well.

















This is about the half way point for now- four coats on, four to go in this initial pass. Hopefully this will do the trick, but their may be another coat or two after the next finish sanding.

[dar47]

Wow very nice, the veneer seams disappeared and all angles are sharp.:T

The way the finish is laying down looks like you can get your gloss no problem.

[JonMarsh]

Hah Ha! In the flesh, it doesn't look quite that perfect- but as my GF says, they'll look great from horseback (a little distance...) It's hard to convey with pictures how the birds eye maple looks- the bands of light reflection move around as your angle and the angle of the light changes- it's fascinating, but pictures can't really capture it. There's also a certain glow to it all...

My lacquer skills are rusty, so I'm expecting to do a leveling sanding, then maybe 1-2 more gloss, then possibly a satin coat. Still unsure what might be the best look- we'll see how the gloss looks after this initial effort has setup.

This is what I expect the remaining steps to be like, if I don't need any additional coats after sanding: (taken from a post found on a forum online)

5. Wet block sand with 400grit paper. The purpose is to flatten the orange peel and dry spray. It helps slightly to sand with the grain, but this is not completely necessary. Spray a little water on the surface. Sand a little. Wipe dry to check your work. Spray a little. Sand a little. Wipe dry and check your work. It will be obvious in reflected light when
the finish is rubbed flat. There won't be any shiny spots from the glossy finish remaining..
6. Wet sand with a 2000 grit Abralon Pad. I use a Porter Cable 7336 for this operation. I also use a household sprayer. An old window cleaning container works well. Spray a little. Sand a little. Wipe dry to check your work. Spray a little. Sand a little. Wipe dry and check your work. It will be obvious in reflected light when the finish is rubbed good. The other possibility is to dry sand with 1500 grit automotive paper. If sanding by hand, I recommend 1000 grit then 1500 grit automotive 3M sandpaper.
7. Rub with 3M Perfect-It III Machine Glaze and a glazing pad. I use a Porter Cable 7336 for this operation too.
The result is a deep clear mirror-like finish.


I think it would be cool to go for this; if it doesn't work out for some reason, I've got a couple of cans of satin...

[JonMarsh]

Time to put the tools away....

And time to put these away for a week or more to harden, and then decide what the next step is.





There's too much mundane stuff that has been neglected this week and needs attention, so those chores will have to take priority tomorrow, though with some luck I may finish wiring up the second crossover. But, I don't see any way to get the bases built and these assembled before next Saturday- Monday is back to the normal grind, leaving home about 5:15 and getting back 8:30 or later. So I'll be going to the Northern CA DIY to bring a playback system, but won't be bringing any speakers, as I just can't face the idea of loading up the Isiris for Sacramento again, even though they've been fixed up substantially. Just a bit too much work! :W

At this point I want to take my time with the rest of the work and be sure it's done to my satisfaction. This still has a high priority so that the crossover can be finalized for Ben and his Dad.

[dar47]

Still One Hell of Week

Great progress.:T

I kind of figured when you decided to go a different route on the bases you would be in tough. For it always seams the last 10% takes 90% of the time especially with the finish. You and Ben just have to baby your finish a little more and your done. I think this the first time I didn't have to struggle with a finish, mostly cause I told myself your not going to touch those with a brush and bugger them up. :rofl:

We are finally getting some spring temps and I'm going to try and finish spraying my bases black, probably a couple more rounds with some sanding between. My work has picked up and I haven't got to the drawings in the evenings either, got to get at that. I'm kind of happy with the xover pace as my kids have been over lots lately with Ben leaving soon and wedding festivities, they have been literally eating my budget away. I swear I saved $1500 a month with 2 moving out and 1 mostly not around.

So don't worry every night your going to come home and walk by them and that will eat at you.

[JonMarsh]

Great progress.:T

I kind of figured when you decided to go a different route on the bases you would be in tough. For it always seams the last 10% takes 90% of the time especially with the finish. You and Ben just have to baby your finish a little more and your done. I think this the first time I didn't have to struggle with a finish, mostly cause I told myself your not going to touch those with a brush and bugger them up. :rofl:

That's usually the case, but the remaining time can't be 9X the time we have so far into these! :E

We've got the man cave cordoned off, door closed, and a window cracked, for their out gassing, with reasonably controlled temperatures. I won't hit these with a brush, but it wouldn't surprise me if I sand and then put another four coats of clear on, then sand again, then maybe some satin, just because it's a bit more forgiving that way, and I like how the satin finished Avalon's I've seen look. But I'll just see how things look and give it a bit of thought and time.

Frankly, I think you guys got a deal for what you paid- I wouldn't shoot these in lacquer for someone for that kind of money! But then, it's a bit more work and uncertainly for me- you're obviously dealing with a pro.

So don't worry every night your going to come home and walk by them and that will eat at you.

Yes, them and the work I want to do on the Isiris! What would be great is if I can get these wrapped up just working as available on weekends, and get them done BEFORE GF's niece's wedding the beginning of August- we've got plans to drive up to the Seattle area for that. Right now I figure one weekend for fabricating the updated bases built around the crossover boards, one more weekend for a finish update, and another weekend for the detail work on the cabinets for the grille cloth panels and base plate mounting (still using the same hole layout and the guide you sent, plus the gaskets). Throw in another one for random chaos and final assembly, and that's four more weekends after the Northern CA DIY, which puts us in early June (if I don't get called in for Saturday work again).

These are still on the priority track...

[5th element]

Should please the blind man on the galloping horse, as my mother would say

Birds-eye maple is one of my favourite veneers. These help to show why

IMO you can neglect chores for a bit if you get all that done.

[Steve Manning]

Those are looking awesome Jon :T ...... That maple has really popped with the finish. I just finished up a new computer desk and I'm still amazed by how the wood looks now that it is finished. Makes all the time in the finishing process worth it.

[JonMarsh]

Those are looking awesome Jon :T ...... That maple has really popped with the finish. I just finished up a new computer desk and I'm still amazed by how the wood looks now that it is finished. Makes all the time in the finishing process worth it.

I hear you Steve- I felt that way about my first full on speaker veneering project (actually, a combination of veneer and hardwoods) back in the mid 70's, a clone of the AR LST. That was just a Watco oils finish, but it was 12 coats deep and took two weeks, but it was pretty amazing looking when finished. I'd definitely rather take my time and go for the gusto. I've been reviewing more pictures of finished speakers online, and the more I think about this, the more I think satin will be the final couple of layers...

All in all, I'm quite happy with how this Sauer veneer has turned out. Now I just have to keep up a measured pace to getting this finished and not rushing anything just to get them making music ASAP!

[Steve Manning]

Wow, 12 coats of finish, your a better man than I, I only did 6 coats of finish on my desk, brushed on 3 coats of shellac and then wiped on 3 coats of Oil Based Arm-R-Seal Urethane Topcoat, semi-gloss. Then a couple of coats of paste wax. One of these days I need to try the spray on route like you've done. I was still pleased with the end result though, here's a quick pic of the finish.

[JonMarsh]

Beautiful desk, Steve! :T I like the design, and the finish is very nice!

I went the wipe on poly route with the Isiris build, and as far as the results versus effort tradeoff, it was certainly a success. Going into spraying again was a bit of a stretch to setup, but I want to do some furniture in the future, so I seemed like a worthwhile path to try going down. There's certainly more setup and prep to get ready to do this, and the work isn't trivial, but I think it's going to work out pretty nicely in the end- and for birds eye maple, it is THE route to take, in my opinion. With other woods, there are often more options...

[JonMarsh]

Totally off topic, until I need to take pictures of small components for DIY

Mentioned previously, off topic- I did win the second auction for another Pentax 200mm f4 Macro lens- lost the first one, but this one is in even better shape.




This lens was produced in limited quantities from 1984 to 2000, is a full frame film era macro lens, when reviewed by Popular Photography, they noted it was substantially better optically than the top Nikon and Canon macro's in that focal length at the time. Someone at Pentax knows or knew how to design very good macro lenses; the 120mm macro for the 645 medium format is the best performing optic available for that medium format camera (at least up until last year when a new 90 mm image stabilized macro was introduced). This 200mm manual focus version and the very rare FA automatic focus version have something like legendary status among Pentax lenses. (Of course, that's not saying the same as legendary status among Zeiss lenses.... )


Some degraded (by photo bucket compression) image samples taken with this lens type by other people:














The original clips before I uploaded to Photo-bucket are clearer; I need to get my Fickr account setup and working for better quality links. But this gives you some idea...

[Johnloudb]

Those look awesome Jon!! Sure beats the hell out of my iPhone ... I know that's not saying much, I'm sure it's great though.

Couple Christmas's ago, my dad bought a Pentax K-30 16MP digital SLR with a 18mm-135mm f3.5-5.8 zoom lense, for the family.

Don't how it would do with close ups but have taken some nice pics with it. Still don't know it well enough to make the best of it though.

[JonMarsh]

Spend some time with the K30 and it should work well for you. If you shoot in jpeg, you'll want to pay careful attention to the white balance setting on the camera- don't trust the automatic white balance. Better option is to use a RAW file developer like Adobe Light Room or Aperture, and use a gray scale/color card and the color temperature eye dropper on a white square or true white object in your scene to nail the color temp and C/M balance; that will do more than any other simple steps to assure your pictures look natural.

Sounds like you've got the standard kit zoom lens- for a moderate upgrade, you might want to look at the DA* 16-50mm f2.8 ED AL IF zoom- much brighter, and low dispersion glass for lower aberrations and improved micro contrast- I got one of those with the K5 body I bought a few years ago, and was very pleased with it's performance as a zoom (zooms have some compromise in performance of course- this one carries average grade rating of 8 out of 10 for most optical characteristics, whereas top primes may hit 9.5 or higher in the user ratings. it really all depends on what you want to do and what focal length you really need- you can do a LOT with a 30-35mm lens, and with my K3 Pentax, 90% of the time I'm shooting with my FA Limited 31 mm F1.8. If I was on a budget and wanted the best optical quality at a fairly useful for most situations kind of lens, I'd go with the SMC Pentax-DA 35mm F2.8 Limited Macro; the only limitation from my perspective is that it's a current digital lens only, meaning it's for the ASP-C size sensor cameras- which all CURRENT Pentax 35mm digital are. But I happen to know that Pentax is 9-12 months away from releasing a full frame 35mm body, and then the painful (financially) choices I've made for lenses for the 35mm Pentax will pay off, as all my lenses are film era full frame lenses (FA 31mm F1.8, FA 77mm F1.8, A 200mm F4 macro) and will support a full frame digital sensor. That said, the DA prime lenses, especially the new updates, are very close to the performance of the older FA Limited lenses, and are usually about 1/2 the price.

Also, take a look at ProCamera on the iPhone- much more accurate white balance than the Apple camera app, especially under difficult lighting conditions. not expensive, either- the best upgrade ever for my iPhone camera!

[benthe8track]

Speaking of photography I apparently forgot how to use my DSLR.
I got the boxes back yesterday and I'm happy with the satin finish. Everything is very smooth (though not quite flat enough for gloss) other than a few little runs that I can sand out later. What isn't good are my pictures. The boxes are residing in a dimly lit basement until I can work on them again in Calgary in a few weeks. I spent a half hour trying to get a few half decent shots, even pulled out my speedlight. I think it will give an idea but they look much better than I could capture.

[JonMarsh]

Yeah, some white balance and color temp issues, for certain! Happy to see you got your cabinets back, though!

But the cabinets look VERY nice! :T The overall flatness and veneer work quite well with the satin finish you've got now!

I was sorry to hear that Charlie has some health issue forcing him to cancel the DIY meet, but this will give me a Saturday of time to work on the cabinets that I wasn't expecting, so my first task will be a leveling sanding and assessment, then likely a few more coats of gloss for now, followed up by another week to harden, a light sand, and a couple of coats of satin. No reason not to take my time and try to do this right-

Time permitting I'll also be working on the second crossover and cutting out the pieces for the base walls and bottom- if the weather is good this weekend, I'll give that priority.

I like how your walnut burl turned out- I'm giving serious consideration to modifying and updating the M8ta cabinets, converting to the 8" aluminum Revelator woofers that I've got, add RS52 midrange, and the 71000 SS tweeter, and sanding off the partial walnut veneer on them now, and doing a full walnut burl. (but don't breathe a word of this to GF- I don't think she's keen on the idea of more speaker work soon! Later I'll be able to justify it as a wedding present for my daughter and her fiancé, if they want a floor standing speaker like this (have already approached her about it, but haven't got any feedback- she needs to see the Wavecor Ardents, anyway, and also decide if they'd like light or dark wood finish).

Evolution is the name of the game for these cabinets... from M8a HiVi to RS225 and Excel Millennium tweeter- I do also have a pair of Seas W22 I was going to try out- I should have a shoot out between those and the SS Revelator woofers, though there's little doubt in my mind at this point which way to go...










I do also like how Kris's turned out:







As well as Colorado Tom's

[Hank]

You guys have got some beautiful finishes going!
BTW, nice choice of air filter, Jon

[JonMarsh]

BTW, nice choice of air filter, Jon

Nothing but the best, Hank- just the best!

[JonMarsh]

More watching Lacquer dry!

Well, with the Northern CA DIY meet cancelled, I had the opportunity yesterday to dive back into the finishing process, and dive I did!

First step was to do the leveling sand, with 400 grit Mirka disks- that went fairly smoothly (pardon the pun), and while it took the contrast out of the finish, it also gave a nice flat surface for the subsequent coats. This was just on the border of whether it would benefit from wet sanding or not- I ended up not to save time, and considering my venting orbital sander, that worked out fine- but I did use five disks for each cabinet, as the Mirka disks were getting just a touch loaded with lacquer powder in spite of the suction from the dust collector. I did wet wipe down the finish and dry with additional tack cloths. Surface preparation is everything in both veneering and finishing, in my limited experience.





By now the routine is very familiar- to finish up I applied 4 coats of gloss, followed by 3 of satin. A coat is just one pass of the gun, with hardly any overlap on the horizontal spray pattern. After completing each pass and heading indoors, I set my timer for 25 minutes, then did another coat; what with setup and mixing lacquer and thinner, it was more like 30 minutes between coats.





In pictures like this the results would be hard to distinguish from the shots from last weekend....








But the resulting surface at this point is very smooth, visually and to the touch...




And I'd say these are going to need very little time with the 1000 grit and 2000 grit pads before proceeding to the rubbing compound.

But they WILL get a couple of weeks to harden up to get ready for that phase!

Now, today, back to the second crossover!