Blink's Khanspire Build Thread

[Blink]

So here some more fun gluing pictures!! I got a little carried away with the glue in the mid enclosure... but I don't think its going anywhere now



I didn't have enough clamps to laminate the front baffle pieces, so here's my improvisation



I think I put too much glue in there on that one... We'll see how it turns out. That wouldn't be a huge problem would it?

[Blink]

ok ... I thought as much ... but it's always nice to hear the details of a build.

True! And with this being my first time I think I probably need to share all the details (maybe even before I do something) so someone can tell me if I'm doing it right.

[CADman_ks]

...

I didn't have enough clamps to laminate the front baffle pieces, so heres my improvisation

...

Water softener salt bags. :B (...but you have to have a need for them, or why else would you have them sitting around?)

[BeerParty]

I think I put too much glue in there on that one... We'll see how it turns out. That wouldn't be a huge problem would it?

Better too much than too little. The excess should squeeze out, you'll just have more clean up to do.

[WilZirkle]

I hope its not stuck to the floor!

[CADman_ks]

I hope its not stuck to the floor!

Now that could be an issue!!! :rofl:

If you cut that front baffle bigger than the cabinets, and you plan to flush trim it later, then the excess glue shouldn't be a huge deal. You'll just need to make sure that you get as much of it off of the sides as possible before trimming...

[yzracer14]

There's nothing wrong with excess glue. Wax paper will aid in cleanup during the gluing process.

[---k---]

Tires.... that is funny.


I don't see an issue with too much glue, unless your relying on it to fill gaps. But I don't see that here.

I am wondering how Wax Paper helps clean up. I've never used wax paper. Please share.

[Blink]

Good news, they weren't attached to the floor. But I'm thinking the first baffle (the one with more glue) might not be attached very well. I can't pull the boards apart, but there is a hairline gap between the boards in some spots, but they seem to be stuck together well otherwise. Should I be worried?

And yes I cut the fronts and backs oversized about 3/16 on every side to be flush trimmed.

[technodanvan]

Good news, they weren't attached to the floor. But I'm thinking the first baffle (the one with more glue) might not be attached very well. I can't pull the boards apart, but there is a hairline gap between the boards in some spots, but they seem to be stuck together well otherwise. Should I be worried?

And yes I cut the fronts and backs oversized about 3/16 on every side to be flush trimmed.

I would imagine that the vast majority of the interior is well-filled with glue. As long as you know you put a lot of glue on the inside I wouldn't worry much about the outside edges. Once you trim them down you will probably see less of a gap.

There is no way you could pull those boards apart unless you did something really, really odd! :

[WilZirkle]

Blink -- glad they came off the floor ok

Ryan, I think yzracer14 is referring to wrapping the parts you don't want to get glue on with a piece of wax paper.

I will use it on clamps and guides when I am glue several boards together so they (the clamps and guides) don't get stuck to the boards I am gluing.

Wil

[---k---]

Good news, they weren't attached to the floor. But I'm thinking the first baffle (the one with more glue) might not be attached very well. I can't pull the boards apart, but there is a hairline gap between the boards in some spots, but they seem to be stuck together well otherwise. Should I be worried?

And yes I cut the fronts and backs oversized about 3/16 on every side to be flush trimmed.

You'll know when you cut the holes for the drivers. If there are gaps, you might want to consider doing it over.... or you could leave it and say that it is a fancy viscous dampening layer.

[yzracer14]

...I am wondering how Wax Paper helps clean up. I've never used wax paper. Please share.

...Ryan, I think yzracer14 is referring to wrapping the parts you don't want to get glue on with a piece of wax paper.

I will use it on clamps and guides when I am glue several boards together so they (the clamps and guides) don't get stuck to the boards I am gluing.

Wil

Correct. I use it everywhere. The link Cadman_ks provided shows just one way that I'm using it where it's absolutely necessary. With large glue-ups, especially when using even larger objects for weight that prevents access to the edges for drip clean up, I'll use it as a temp table surface and toss it when finished. I used to just use shop towels for this, but the glue soaks through, a lesson learned the hard way.

[Blink]

I'll be going to home depot or lowes again today to get some foam for the gaskets under the port tubes. I've looked a couple times at the fiberglass there for dampening, but I don't think I've seen anything close to 1" unfaced panels. Does anyone have a cheap suggestion on what to get? (I know that's probably been asked a million times, sorry!)

[CADman_ks]

...

There is no way you could pull those boards apart unless you did something really, really odd! :

Or, in the words of Roy D. Mercer, "Just how big a boy are you???"

[Blink]

Or, in the words of Roy D. Mercer, "Just how big a boy are you???"

How'd you know I'm from Tulsa like Roy D. Mercer?? :B

Got a little bit of progress done tonight, holes for the ports cut out of the back baffles.



My test cut with the jasper jig fit perfectly snug with the port tube... but the second and third holes were both uniformly slightly bigger (not enough to make a huge fuss over)... Did I do something wrong, or do other people notice this after using the pivot hole a couple times? For the driver holes, should I cut them smaller and then sand them bigger?

[CADman_ks]

How'd you know I'm from Tulsa like Roy D. Mercer?? :B
...

I didn't. I just knew that you were from OK in one of your earlier posts. I also had forgotten that Roy D. was from OK until you said that. Most of his stuff is just killer funny...

[---k---]

For the driver holes, should I cut them smaller and then sand them bigger?

Not sure how your holes got bigger. You sure you used the right setting? Maybe the pin moved? You are using that MDF crap. If you used good plywood you definitely wouldn't have that problem. :P

Sanding is a pain in the behind. I've been forced down this road on several projects and don't recommend it.

Another thing, if you're making them tight, your going to have another pain in the butt on your hands trying to remove the drivers from the holes later on down the road - especially if you paint the baffles and add a little thickness to the holes. A nice thin uniform gap around is good.

[CADman_ks]

...

Another thing, if you're making them tight, your going to have another pain in the butt on your hands trying to remove the drivers from the holes later on down the road - especially if you paint the baffles and add a little thickness to the holes. A nice thin uniform gap around is good.

I second that. I don't think that I will EVER be able to get my drivers out of my Stents if I need to. Mine weren't even that super tight going in, but once they were screwed down, they were wedged in there, and I haven't been able to get them out. (I haven't tried to hard, because I haven't needed to, but they are indeed in there good)...

[joeybutts]

I third. Not sure what I am going to do for my baffles as the drivers just squeeze in. Dumb on my part.

[BeerParty]

My test cut with the jasper jig fit perfectly snug with the port tube... but the second and third holes were both uniformly slightly bigger (not enough to make a huge fuss over)... Did I do something wrong, or do other people notice this after using the pivot hole a couple times? For the driver holes, should I cut them smaller and then sand them bigger?

Check the screws holding the router base to the jasper jig. Most likely what happened was the screws were not tight enough and router base shifted on the Jasper jig as you put pressure on it. Also, make sure the 1/4" bit is centered in the hole of the Jasper jig. If I remember correctly, they provide a centering pin with the jig to make this easy.

I have cut at least 20 holes with my jasper jig and never had a problem with the size changing from hole to hole.

[Blink]

Another thing, if you're making them tight, your going to have another pain in the butt on your hands trying to remove the drivers from the holes later on down the road - especially if you paint the baffles and add a little thickness to the holes. A nice thin uniform gap around is good.

Ahh, I hadn't thought of that!! I can see that scenario, unscrew the driver, tilt the box forward and bang on the back until it falls out and then try to catch it!! :lol:

[---k---]

Once you add the foam seal, screw them down tight, they are really hard to remove, even with a gap. I think the foam squeezes out and wedges in the gap on the back side.

My trick to getting them out is to take a coat hanger wire. Cut it and bend a 1/8" - 1/4" hook on the end. Stick the hook end in the screw hole and pull. Repeat as needed.

[Blink]

So I should definitely add another layer of foam and not trust the tiny layer already installed on the driver?

[CADman_ks]

Once you add the foam seal, screw them down tight, they are really hard to remove, even with a gap. I think the foam squeezes out and wedges in the gap on the back side.
....

I think that this also contributed to my problem as well. I could get them in and out of there BEFORE the foam tape, but they were still too tight, looking back on it now.

But, after putting the foam tape on, I was done. No more getting them out. I only tried one, and gave up. I wanted to take them out when I was painting the cabs, but decided to just tape over them and paint gingerly. Luckily, nothing bad happened during that operation...

[Blink]

Check the screws holding the router base to the jasper jig. Most likely what happened was the screws were not tight enough and router base shifted on the Jasper jig as you put pressure on it. Also, make sure the 1/4" bit is centered in the hole of the Jasper jig. If I remember correctly, they provide a centering pin with the jig to make this easy.

I have cut at least 20 holes with my jasper jig and never had a problem with the size changing from hole to hole.

The 1/4" bit lines up perfectly, its on the 1/2" bit I'm using for the lip that is having the issues. But thats a good idea, I will definitely check the screws this time around!

[---k---]

So I should definitely add another layer of foam and not trust the tiny layer already installed on the driver?

That must be a recent production change. None of mine have a layer of foam on the driver. Only the RS28A came with a gasket.

If your surface is smooth and level, it shouldn't take much foam to make a good clean seal.

[Blink]

Check the screws holding the router base to the jasper jig.

Well you were right, it was the screws. I apparently had got in a hurry putting it on, and tightened one down before it was squarely in the hole on the jig. (now if I can only remember this "trick" when I need to make the hole slightly larger than the given measurements)

Got some test cuts done for the drivers and they are back to snug.



I plan on veneering these when I'm done, do you think I would have a problem with the veneer between the mid and the tweeter?

[CADman_ks]

...
I plan on veneering these when I'm done, do you think I would have a problem with the veneer between the mid and the tweeter?

I'm currently square in the middle of my first veneering project, so take my guidance with a grain of salt.

Are you going to use paper backed veneer? I've noticed that the paper doesn't always cut off of the veneer cleanly, and you'll end up with a little bit of paper that you have to clean up.

With that being said, tiny veneer pieces are really hard to make hold together anyway. You're really at the mercy of the wood to hold it together, and there isn't really much "structure" there to make that all hold together.

I would think that you're going to have issues there.

One thing that you might do is deliberately NOT put any veneer across that gap, but make all of the gaps look the same. Then paint that region black under there...

[---k---]

I've never veneered, so I'm no help here. It probably all depends on how perfect do you want them to look. My less than ambitiousness nature would lead me to do as suggested above - Get the veneer close and trim even on both sides and stain the gap black. I'm not saying that you have to redo your bafffles, but if you do, don't hesitate to move the mids out 1/8" - 1/4" to avoid that problem. Theoretically the closer you get them the better, but that small of a change isn't going to change the crossover and likely won't be audible.

[Blink]

Alright I think I'm gonna move each of the mids out 1/8".

So I'll be cutting the front baffle holes today, hopefully getting the fiberglass dampening glued in. The sides and braces are all glued up on both cabinets.

So I guess it's time for another question that I think might be stupid... How long do you guys leave the clamps on when gluing? I've been doing at least overnight, and I think that might be complete overkill.

[joeybutts]

I think that is a good amount of time and no where near overkill. A few dyas? yeah.

[CADman_ks]

I plan on veneering these when I'm done, do you think I would have a problem with the veneer between the mid and the tweeter?

I looked at your picture again, and it's kind of hard to tell, but it appears that you have a missing piece between the two drivers, where the MDF might have broken off or been consumed in one of the cuts.

If there is indeed a missing piece there, you will not get veneer to bridge that gap and stay there. You would have to build that area back up with Bondo or wood filler, and then re-shape it.

There's just not much left there, even with that being said...

[CADman_ks]

I didn't see your solution. That's a much better plan. :T

[CADman_ks]

Alright I think I'm gonna move each of the mids out 1/8".

So I'll be cutting the front baffle holes today, hopefully getting the fiberglass dampening glued in. The sides and braces are all glued up on both cabinets.

So I guess it's time for another question that I think might be stupid... How long do you guys leave the clamps on when gluing? I've been doing at least overnight, and I think that might be complete overkill.

These are the clamping guidelines from TiteBonds web site:

Clamping Guidelines

• Appropriate clamp pressure is essential for a successful bond. We recommend the following guidelines:
  • For softwoods (pine, poplar): 100-150 psi
  • For medium density woods (cherry, soft maple): 150-200 psi
  • For hardwoods (oak, birch): 200-300 psi
• Clamp time is dependent on wood species, moisture content and environmental conditions. For most of our wood glues, we recommend clamping an unstressed joint for 30 minutes to one hour. Stressed joints, such as bent laminations, need to be clamped for 24 hours. Do not stress the new joint until totally cured - at least 24 hours. For Titebond Polyurethane Glue, we recommend clamping for at least 45 minutes. The glue is completely cured within 6 hours.
• Clamps should be positioned a minimum of 1 1/2" - 2" in from the sides and evenly spaced at 8" - 12" throughout the piece.

Even one hour seems a little low to me. I agree with Joey that overnite is probably what the doctor ordered. But, I would think that if you wanted to do a couple of clamps on a Saturday, it would be OK to take the clamps off after 4 hours or so. That would let you do some in the morning, and some in the afternoon, and possibly later in the evening as well...

[joeybutts]

I agree with Joey that overnite is probably what the doctor ordered. But, I would think that if you wanted to do a couple of clamps on a Saturday, it would be OK to take the clamps off after 4 hours or so. That would let you do some in the morning, and some in the afternoon, and possibly later in the evening as well...

This is pretty much what I follow......Well put.

[---k---]

It all depends on how rough you are with your boxes. If you clamp for 4 - 6 hours (depending on weather, etc) you can probably release the clamps. BUT, you can's then go picking the box up and tossing it around in such a manor as to stress those joints. You also can't go clamping in the opposite direction such that the clamps would put stress on those joints. If you're taking the clamps off before full cure, I think you need to let it rest.

Me, I like to toss my boxes around. I leave them clamped for 24 hours or I use a brad nailer. I really like my brad nailer since I got it.

[yzracer14]

Since when is anything in DIY home theater considered overkill?

I'm with ---k---

When I unclamp any assembly, I don't wan't be limited on what I can do with it. That includes, grabbing it by the woofer holes and tossing it around in any position I need. That's actually what i have to do right now with my current build. I'd be afraid to touch it, unclamped, after only 4 hours.

IMHO, play it safe.

[cjd]

Fwiw you can still get the truncated frame for the RS28 I think. That would allow you to just fill the space and have a veneer surface as much as moving the tweets 1/8".

[Blink]

Luckily those cuts were on the test board, so all options are still on the table.

About the clamping times, I suppose I was mainly wondering about releasing the clamps, because like CADman_ks probably knew what I was thinking, I'm planning on working on these all day tomorrow

Broke 3 of my 6 harbor freight clamps so far... I suppose I will slowly replace them with quality clamps, but for 5 bucks a clamp, I think I got some use out of them.

Decided to use Owens Corning R-6.7 Unfaced 2 in. x 16 in. x 48 in. Multi Purpose Continuous Roll Insulation for the dampening.

[oneplustwo]

Luckily those cuts were on the test board, so all options are still on the table.

About the clamping times, I suppose I was mainly wondering about releasing the clamps, because like CADman_ks probably knew what I was thinking, I'm planning on working on these all day tomorrow

Broke 3 of my 6 harbor freight clamps so far... I suppose I will slowly replace them with quality clamps, but for 5 bucks a clamp, I think I got some use out of them.

Decided to use Owens Corning R-6.7 Unfaced 2 in. x 16 in. x 48 in. Multi Purpose Continuous Roll Insulation for the dampening.

Wow, only $4 a roll! I think I found my statement build dampening material!

[john trials]

Wow, only $4 a roll! I think I found my statement build dampening material!

That's what I used in all of my Statements. It's very inexpensive, but a bit of a mess to work with (I used 3M 77 adhesive to attach it to the MDF...wear some gloves!).

[---k---]

Luckily those cuts were on the test board, so all options are still on the table.
.

Test boards? What are these "test" boards you speak of? :rofl:

[Blink]

Test boards? What are these "test" boards you speak of? :rofl:

Hey its my first time cutting accurate circles (read not free handed with a crappy jig saw) and first time using my new router!

My plans for working on the cabinets today were foiled by the Wanenmacher's gun show being in town. Unfortunately I didn't even buy a new gun today

[Blink]

Got the baffles almost finished



Probably should have asked for an easier method to open up the woofers and mids, but ended up using a dremel sanding drum... took much longer than I expected and I sucked at it! At least only I will be troubled by it, no one else will ever see it.

Right now the back panel of one of them is glued and clamped. I have a feeling I'm going to have some leaks How do people deal with these? Can wood filler or bondo work in this situation??