First Time Natalie P. Build

[fightingfish]

Hi,
My brother and I would like to build some speakers. Neither of us have much electronics experience, but are both willing to learn. We think the Natalie P. would be a good speaker to attempt a build of. If we go ahead and do this we may need some help! I'm hoping some of the readers on here would be willing to answer some questions and/or offer suggestions.

I guess my first question is: Could we use the 8 ohm version of the RS180's?

Thanks,
Fish

[ThomasW]

Each NatP uses 2-8 ohm drivers.

[Dean100]

If you read the thread you will find most of the answers. Also there are some great pics to help with the crossovers. And you will find all of the people here very willing to answer questions and give advice.

The Nats are are great speakers by the way. I think you will be blown away by how much you get for the money.

[fightingfish]

Thanks for the replies!

Our build is moving along. We've spent a little more $ than orginally expected, purchasing circle jigs, soldering iron, ect. Anyways we have both crossovers finished, and are getting ready to do baffles and ports.

About the crossovers, We want to mount them vertically along the sides of the speakers. So we need to space the x-overs away from the side a bit, because of the wiring. We are thinking of using small wooden blocks as spacers. Any recommendations on adhering the spacers to the sides of the speakers? Hot glue would work, but then removing the x-overs in the future would be a pain.

[subynube]

To secure XO's and other objects that may not be permanent, I used heavy duty double sided tape. It is not permanent in case I ever change the XO. Dont know if this is a well accepted option, but it is what I did. Hope this helps.

[Rbrockman]

There are many options which can work.

I built my last crossovers on sheets of lexan. On the bottom of the lexan I placed four 1/4" thick nylon spacers with a 1/8" hole thru the center on each corner of the crossover. This provided clearance for the wiring which was done on the backside to keep the layout clean.

I then glued 1/4" or 3/8" thick wood blocks to the inside of the speaker boxes where I wanted to place the crossovers. This was done primarily to ensure I did no damage to the boxes.

It was then a simple matter of placing 4 screws thru the crossover lexan plates, thru the nylon spacers, and into the wood blocks to hold things in place.

This worked out really well, and will do the same on my next set.

[JimS]

heavy duty velcro works great - just make sure the surface is clean . . .

[fightingfish]

Hey guys...its fightingfish's little bro here.

As you know were both working together on our first ever speaker build and its going well. I have one question regarding impedance.

I have a Denon AVR-887 which i plan on using to power these N.P's. My manual notes that if i plan on running speakers at an undesired ohm level i.e. 4 it may activate the protection circuit.

What can or should i expect to happen when I use this receiver? Will i need to consider a secondary amp or amps to power these beasts? Will my current receiver be fine as is? Can i get away running this setup as is with proper placement i.e. airflow and fans?

I hope to have these beauts up and running in a few days.

Once again thanks for all the input and advice. Us greenies can use all the info you can dish out to us.

[Dennis H]

Your receiver will work fine as long as you don't turn it up too loud. The mfrs just put those disclaimers in the manuals so they don't get service calls when people turn it up too loud and the amp shuts down due to too much current and/or heat. Of course better amps are always errrr.... better.

[cgr]

I've used heavy duty velcro to attach the crossovers. I've had better results using hotglue to hold the velcro than the adhesive that comes with it.

[---k---]

This is how I did my cross overs:





The 1/8 hardboard slides into a very tight dado. A dab a caulk at the front is there for a safety catch. I like it. it was very easy to pull the board and reverse some wires recently.

my speakers are deep enough that I could have 5" mount and still put the 6" board through the driver hole, line it up and then slide it into the dado. you may not be able to do this.

velcro is he most popular solution though.

[fightingfish]

Question about my x-over construction regarding my natalie p project:
There are four different segments on my x-over that need to be connected with one another...via speaker wire etc. I ended up using a solid 12 or 14 gauge copper wire that i gutted from a never used roll of wire intended for outdoor lighting. Its diamond handiwire 12-2 uf-b. I then wrapped the exposed areas with electrical tape. Im well aware that this was more than likely a no-no...I know better...but i was impatient and really didnt want to drive 16 miles to get two feet of wire. Do i need or should i remove these links? How should I do so? Buy a solder remover? Heat it up and pull it? Thanks for your help.

[ThomasW]

If the runs are short and the wire insulated it's not a problem.

[fightingfish]

nice. im pretty sure im within those regulations.

[fightingfish]

My current setup and progress on my natalie p's.

[yousuredo2]

Love to see some larger pics if you got em...
and nice grills and spikes, you paint the PE closeout spikes ?

[fightingfish]

sorry my pictures are limited due to a 2.0mp camera thanks to my lg cell phone. ya i painted my pe boxes because there is no way you can prevent scratches during construction. painted them with a high gloss black oil based enamel. im pretty happy with
my first diy attempt. should have them up and running mid of next week. im pumped.

[ThomasW]

Looking good..... :T

[fightingfish]

one quick question. i've been all over this forum looking for a center channel that will compliment my nat p's and the modula mt's that i plan on starting as soon as i finish the previous. im looking for something relatively compact and horizontal. any sugestions? ill tell you what...this is my first ever build and its taken me way longer than expected but i dont care. this is sweet...ive got the diy bug. thanks for your help.

[ThomasW]

There are no 'inexpensive' centers other than using a Modula MT on it's side.

The Modula MTM center is very good, but the killer is the cost of the tweeter.

If you don't need buckets of output and want low cost, look at CJD's RS150 MTM center.

[fightingfish]

allright im about to finalize my nat p speaks and have one final question. when wiring my crossover to my drivers do i run two seperate sets of wires from the crossover to drivers or do i run one set and slpice them ?

thanks

[Dean100]

I ran two sets of wires on mine to the mids.

[fightingfish]

Trouble

Help:

I have finished both of my speakers, wired them to my denon avr-887, and performed the auto setup. I have what appears to be a major problem and require your expertise in proper trouble shooting.

The speakers constantly "fade in and out...bilaterally." The sound level raises to about what you would expect..then it fades almost to nothing. Im dumbfounded.

I have checked all solder connections and wire to binding post connections(no plugs used). Im trying to figure out if the problem arises from my crossover construction or possibly me running my reciever at an improper ohm level. Im not listening to it loudly...the case isnt even warm to the touch.

I would greatly appreciate any recommendations.

[---k---]

If you're not running them very hard, I doubt it is the receiver. My pioneer has no problem with my Khanspires. And if you are just doing the front 2, it should be pretty easy. Very Weird. I don't have a clue, but a couple of questions:

1) Did it complete the auto setup correctly?
2) Once it fades out, does it fade back in?
3) Does it always fade in and out after the same amount of time playing or does it go like 5 minutes one time and ten minutes the next?
4) does it do it with only 1 speaker hooked up? Try hooking up just the right and try it. then just the left. no other speakers.

The only thing I can think of is that you have some wires touching somewhere that is causing a short. I would check all your wiring and make sure the red wire can't move and touch the black wire anywhere. Maybe post a higher-resolution image of your crossover so it can be checked, but it will be hard since you wired everything on the back side.

[fightingfish]

1) It did complete correctly. It even pointed out i had my red/black switched on one of my binding posts.

2) It doesn't fade back in. Its more of a very abrupt transition.

3) As far as i can tell...time has no bearing on its fading.

4) Don't know. Ill try in a bit

* It tends to fade out more when lower notes are being played. It plays highs well. I can listen to a whole song (mostly highs) without fading. The next track will fade...it has more lower notes.

* Tomorrow im going to buy some bananna clips. ive noticed that when making connections behind my reciever it can be extremely touchy. these binding posts can be a pain...short out or not put out any signals at all.

I guess ill keep on searching. im almost positive my amateur crossovers are ok. No fried components or wires. i tested them before mounting.

Thanks.

[---k---]

weird. sounding like it may be the receiver. try setting the speakers to small with a high crossover. this will take away the bass, where the impedance is lowest. then play the same song and see if it cuts out.

[fightingfish]

auto set up ran the nats as small.

I have made a minor discovery. I switched from dolby plII cine. setting on my reciever to stereo and no fading for at least 15 minutes.

???

[ThomasW]

How did you test the crossovers? If there were no issues with them before final assembly that gives you a clue where to start looking

Now the first thing to do is to hook one of the speakers up to a different amp or receiver, and see if the problem persists. If it dones then look at the crossovers and the wiring.

[fightingfish]

I wired up my crossover to a single dayton mid and tweeter open air...for only a minute or so. not very loud. worked great. no frying the components as far as i can see.

I was planning on hooking them up to my bros onkyo receiver tomorrow and see what happens.

I switched my reciever setting as noted above and still no fading. 30 minutes or so.

Im leaning to the binding posts on the back of the reciever. they have given me nothing but hell. im going to try some ban plugs tomorrow.

[---k---]

Ahhah.

Still test on other receivers. I'm guessing that when it was fading out, the dolby prologic was pushing the sound to the center channel which you didn't have hooked up.

[fightingfish]

wooowh! we might have something here. I did have a polk audio center hooked up during the auto setup.

i noticed it was playing way loud...very bassy.

i unhooked it from the binding posts to focus on the nats fading.

after the center was unhooked the nats still faded. it wasnt until i changed the sound setting that the fading ended.

???

[PoorboyMike]

It even pointed out i had my red/black switched on one of my binding posts.

Interesting that you said that. I had a friend borrow my Nats for a few weeks and his Denon receiver said the same thing about 1 of my speakers. I double checked all of my wiring and didn't see a problem. And they sound fine.

[Dean100]

Ok, have you had a good chance to listen to them in stereo? Try playing some music that you are very familiar with. Am curious as to what you think about their sound.

As I said earlier in the link, my opinion is that you will be very satisfied.