HTG official High Definition high octane DVD format war, the aftermath

[littlesaint]

You can't compare DVD-A/SACD to HD-DVD/BD. The markets are completely different. DVD-A/SACD was trumped by MP3s because people wanted to download music for free and fit as many songs as possible on their iPods. No market for DVD-A/SACD. People want HD video. They want to fill their expensive HDTVs with as many pixels as possible. The market is there.

Software sales are misleading. Not all movies are released on both formats (very few actually), so you can't make direct comparisons as a generalization. Hardware sales are more direct, and represent the future market. Though BD has skewed those numbers by saying the PS3 is a BD player even though it could only be used for games. HD-DVD is nearing the $200.00 price point much faster than BD, and HD-DVD has a "feature complete" platform, while BD has yet to get profile 1.1 player on the shelves let alone its "feature complete" profile 2.0.

HD-DVD also has a trump card in that they could choose to release all movies as DVD/HD-DVD combo discs (technical issues solved of course ) at a DVD price point. Game over if that happens. IMO of course. :B

[hifiguymi]

I understand that very few movies are being release in both formats. BD has outsold HD-DVD in all that have been released in both however. Just the fact that there are more software sales points to a greater acceptance of BD. That is the point I was trying to make.

I also understand the argument of a cheaper player. However,the player could be a dollar and if there is less software to play on it, or the titles you want are not available on it, it doesn't matter. Yes the PS3 numbers may be a little misleading, but I encounter customers all the time that use their PS3 to play movies. I'm sure it's not all, but if it was just 25% of them, that would be about 300,000 people. That accounts for a large amount of software sales relatively speaking. If more software is out there, more people will by the hardware that plays it. That is what I see happening with BD. Software is what it is all about and for Paramount to take themselves out of the BD market is just silly. In the long run it will cost them money.

As for the DVD-Audio and SACD comparison. I said I was aware of the impact of MP3's and downloaded music, but that didn't happen in earnest for a couple of years after those formats were launched. The main reason they didn't gain any traction at all was because there were two formats. I dealt with it every day on the sales floor. The same thing may happen with HD-DVD and BD. If people remain indifferent and downloads start to become more popular that would be a sad day. I very much dislike downloads because of the venerability of them. If I have a disc, I trust it to stay around much longer than a hard drive. Also I don't like the "tagging" that happens with downloads. I understand an artists need to protect their intellectual property, but having to settle for lower resolution (like iTunes music that is purchased compared to a CD) or having all of my personal information tagged to a downloaded copy of something (like what is going on with "non DRM" downloads) is not what I want. It may sound old fashioned, but I don't think I'm alone.

Sorry about the long post.

Eric

[Nolan B]

Stick to your "guns" BD supporters. Eventually, Universal and Paramount will make it over to Blu-Ray. It's my opinion that Paramount when over to HD-DVD because it's more financially feasible for them. $150 Million now, and in 18 months.

Both of these things have been totally denied by Paramount. The switch is indefinately (link http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,1...gy/article.html ), and no one ever stepped forward besides a mysterious source which said Paramount got paid 150 million.

quote

"This whole thing about a payoff is lame, especially the way it's discussed as if it is fact.

1) It was first posted by Bill Hunt on the digital bits who in turn got it from a blogger, Nikki Finke.
http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.co...vd-format-war/

Finke never said anything about Microsoft being involved in any payoff. Apparently Bill added that himself. In fact, Finke never said anything about her sources at all other than "I'm told.." and "sources tell me".

"...is widely recognized as the losing high-def format."
Widely recognized by who? Those paid by the BDA?

"Blu-ray high-def movie discs outsold films on rival HD-DVD 2-to-1 in the U.S. in the first half of 2007"

Sounds very familiar. It sounds like it came straight from the BDA camp. She even mentions Blockbuster. Not one word of HD DVD standalone sales, or the ratio of sales versus players. If she did, 2 to 1 would be a pretty sad number. Finke never indicates sources or who the alleged party was who provided the payoff. Finke has been described as a controversial blogger and I think that is putting it extremely mildly. This is an intersting article about Finke:

http://gawker.com/news/nikki-finke/c...azy-184254.php

Bill Hunt's blog:

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/mytwocentsa141.html#dp

"Microsoft has paid DreamWorks and Paramount so much money that they've decided to join Universal in the HD-DVD exclusive camp. No kidding."
Can we have a source for this Bill? No kidding. No? I guess not. For some reason he does not disclose why he points the finger at Microsoft.

In response to this there is:
Amir Majidimehr, Corporate Vice President, Microsoft Corporation
Consumer Media Technology Group, Mobile and Embedded Devices Division

So, Amir has a JOB. He doesn't make a profit by trying to score page hits from outrageous blogs. What does Amir say about this?

"We didn't pay them. We didn't pay anyone else to pay them. We didn't give them $50M worth of MS software either. Nor did we pave their parking lot for them for free. We didn't buy an apartment for their execs in Paris. Or pay to have a pool put in their house for free. Or send their kids to college. Or give them free employment at Microsoft. Anything else I missed?"

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/show...&postcount=348

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/show...&postcount=349

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/show...&postcount=353

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/show...&postcount=359

Anyone who has followed Amir's extensive posts at AVS and highdefdigest will agree he is candid and demonstrates integrity.

Then we have the New York Times article.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/21/te...=1&oref=slogin

It was written by Brooks Barnes who apparently has been submitting articles to the Times for only a little over two months.

In the article are quotes that raise questions of bias:
"There is no longer any doubt that Blu-ray is the clear successor to standard DVDs," said Bob Chapek, president of Disney’s home entertainment unit.

His substance is "...two Viacom executives with knowledge of the deal but who asked not to be identified."

A new twist, but an old theme. Unknown sources.

So we have Finke who "was told" about a payoff. She doesn't indicate who told her or who paid the money. We have a different story from Bill Hunt, who indicates Microsoft paid the money. That was strongly denied by Amir. I will believe Amir any day over Hunt. And we have a two month online submitter to the Times, who also has sources that conveniently do not want to be identified.

So I don't think it makes any sense to talk about the fantasy payoff as anything other than BDA spin. No one has named a viable payer of any money, and there are no credible sources to back up anything"

[Nolan B]

Under $200 HD DVD player?

http://www.e-gear.com/story/story.bsp?sid=73371&var=story

Could this be the first HD DVD stand alone player priced under $200?

From everything I have read about the success of the adaption of DVD it mainly due to the pricing hitting the criticle mass of $200. I believe the war is not between BD and HD DVD, but between one of those formats and DVD.

[Hdale85]

I could really care less who wins. I would be ok with an excellent combo player and keeping both formats. As long as I get good HD content. To be honest competition is good as it brings prices down and what not. Maybe the war shifts and they start slashing prices of HD discs...then we all win :B

[littlesaint]

I understand that very few movies are being release in both formats. BD has outsold HD-DVD in all that have been released in both however. Just the fact that there are more software sales points to a greater acceptance of BD. That is the point I was trying to make.

I also understand the argument of a cheaper player. However,the player could be a dollar and if there is less software to play on it, or the titles you want are not available on it, it doesn't matter. Yes the PS3 numbers may be a little misleading, but I encounter customers all the time that use their PS3 to play movies. I'm sure it's not all, but if it was just 25% of them, that would be about 300,000 people. That accounts for a large amount of software sales relatively speaking. If more software is out there, more people will by the hardware that plays it. That is what I see happening with BD. Software is what it is all about and for Paramount to take themselves out of the BD market is just silly. In the long run it will cost them money...

Software sales numbers are skewed because you have different titles on different formats. There's more volume on the BD side, but it's the quality titles that have meaning in sales numbers.

If you look at sales figures in the last month, HD-DVD is closing the gap. Why? Because people are buying HD-DVD players. Why? The cost is close to $200 less than BD players. Sony and friends have priced themselves out of the market. I can go on Amazon right now and for a little over $200 get a player and 5 free movies. The Xbox add-on is $180 and 8 free movies. The closest BD player (with 5 free movies) is $450. This is what Paramount sees. If they want to roll out big HD releases, what platform gets into more homes, the $200 HD-DVD player, or the $450 BD player?

[Hdale85]

This is very true. Most consumers could care less about either format. If I go to the store to purchase a movie usually its only on one format and then I have to purchase that format to get the movie. Its not because I have a choice. And I'm sorry but if HD-DVD had a player for 1 dollar HD-DVD's would be flying off the shelf faster then you could imagine.

[hifiguymi]

Software sales numbers are skewed because you have different titles on different formats. There's more volume on the BD side, but it's the quality titles that have meaning in sales numbers.

If you look at sales figures in the last month, HD-DVD is closing the gap. Why? Because people are buying HD-DVD players. Why? The cost is close to $200 less than BD players. Sony and friends have priced themselves out of the market. I can go on Amazon right now and for a little over $200 get a player and 5 free movies. The Xbox add-on is $180 and 8 free movies. The closest BD player (with 5 free movies) is $450. This is what Paramount sees. If they want to roll out big HD releases, what platform gets into more homes, the $200 HD-DVD player, or the $450 BD player?

How can the numbers be skewed? They are what they are. There are more BD discs being sold every week than HD-DVD. It doesn't matter what the titles are, the numbers are for total unit sales. As far as "quality titles", who is making that determination? What you deem as a quality title is not what the next person does. It still comes down to total discs sold, and BD is out pacing HD-DVD. It's as simple as that.

As for HD-DVD catching up, that has not happened. It may in the future, but as of right now it's not. As I stated in an earlier post, the margin last week is almost 3 : 1 in favor of BD (71% to 29%). Year to date as grown to exactly 2 : 1 (67% to 33%) in favor of BD and since the inception of the two formats it is now 61% BD and 39% HD-DVD. As I said, it may change, time will tell. But Paramount walking away from BD, I believe, is a financial mistake on their part.

I just want to reiterate that I don't care which format wins as long as one does. I just don't see enough support for HD-DVD, even with the Paramount decision, for that format to be the one.

Eric

[Nolan B]

As for HD-DVD catching up, that has not happened.

Agree BD has been outselling HD DVD over the last 7 months, and if that was going to change it wouldnt happen over night. The tides do seem to be going in HD DVD's favor and all the evidence points to HD DVD gaining strength

http://www.hdgamedb.com/amazon/history.aspx?TYPE=10&SPAN=7

Amazon:

#1 in Games Best sellers - HD DVD Ad on
#1 in Electronic Best Sellers - Toshibia A2
#1 in DVD best sellers - Toshiba A2 (BTW the worst selling HD DVD stand alone (XA2) is selling better then the best selling BD stand alone)
#2 in DVD best sellers (DVD, BD, HD DVD) - 300 HD DVD

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers...763913-7958511

[Nolan B]

Studio Canal Supports Blu Ray

This a rumor until an offical annoucment is made. Studio Canal which has never said they were HD DVD exclusice, but has only released on HD DVD seems to have started to release on BD.

No huge for use becuase this is mainly for europe and region coding prevents us from importing tittles on BD. This is, however, fairly huge if you live in europe or if BD changes their stance on region coding.

http://www.dvdrama.com/news.php?21769

I believe Studio Canal is one of the biggest movie holders in the world...but feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

[Chris D]

Very interesting--the past 2 days, there has been a HUGE jump in both BD and HD-DVD sales!

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/

HD-DVD has gained some ground, though!

[Nolan B]

Very interesting--the past 2 days, there has been a HUGE jump in both BD and HD-DVD sales!

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/

HD-DVD has gained some ground, though!

There was a secret sale/glitch at amazon over the last week or so. If you bought two tittles (on either format) the third was at no charge. It didnt work for all titles, but most of them.

I know a lot o people took advantage of that causing the sales spike.

[Hdale85]

Wish I knew about it I bought about 4 HD-DVD's over the past few days.

[Lex]

Amazon thing... would have been nice to know, but depends on the titles if I would have been a buyer... I'm on a limited buy budget at present due to paying daughter's school this month, and again in Jan.

Dougie, I'm pretty much with you, I just don't really care what format my movies are on, as long as I can get what I want.

An example would be True Lies. I'd love to update to HD format, and I wouldn't care which one. It's an all time favorite. Terminator series. had to buy both discs to make the set, because different studios controlled them. MI series, I first tried BD, and their was so much noise, I traded back for HD-DVD. I am still not sure it was better, but that's what I kept.

With me owning an amazingly proportionate number of both formats, an interesting question would be if I had to give up all my discs of one format or the other, which would it be? I think I know the answer, but I need to scan my collection again before definitely giving the answer. The answer wouldn't really mean anything necessarily, just curious. It would be complex to figure up which of the DVDs I gave up could then be replaced on the format I kept... lol. To see in reality, what have I gave up going one or the other.

[Nolan B]

Wish I knew about it I bought about 4 HD-DVD's over the past few days.

sorry...i knew about it when it was happening, but didnt pay to much attention to it because I have every BD/HD DVD i want which is out.


Selfish of me...my bad ops:

It didnt apply to pre-orders


Here is a list of tittles it worked with...hopefully there were none you wanted anyway.

HD DVD
300 (Combo HD DVD and Standard DVD) [HD DVD] (2007)
12 Monkeys [HD DVD] (1995)
The Adventures of Robin Hood (1938) [HD DVD] (1938)
Backdraft (HD DVD) (1991)
Batman Begins [HD DVD] (2005)
Beerfest (Unrated) [HD DVD] (2006)
Blood Diamond [HD DVD] (2006)
Blue Planet (IMAX) [HD DVD] (1993)
Casablanca [HD DVD] (1942)
Casino (HD DVD) (1995)
Charlie & the Chocolate Factory [HD DVD] (2005)
The Departed (Combo HD DVD and Standard DVD) [HD DVD] (2006)
Doom [HD DVD] (2005)
Dune (1984) [HD DVD] (1984)
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind [HD DVD] (2004)
Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas (HD DVD) (1998)
Field of Dreams [HD DVD] (1989)
Forbidden Planet [HD DVD] (1956)
The Fountain (Combo HD DVD and Standard DVD) [HD DVD] (2006)
Friday Night Lights [HD DVD] (2004)
Goodfellas [HD DVD] (1990)
Happy Feet (Combo HD DVD and Standard DVD) [HD DVD] (2006)
Happy Gilmore (HD DVD) (1996)
The Last Samurai [HD DVD] (2003)
Letters from Iwo Jima (Combo HD DVD and Standard DVD) [HD DVD] (2006)
Mallrats [HD DVD] (1995)
March of the Penguins [HD DVD] (2005)
Meet the Parents [HD DVD] (2000)
The Phantom of the Opera (Special Edition) [HD DVD] (2004)
Pitch Black (Unrated) [HD DVD] (2000)
Poseidon [HD DVD] (2006)
Purple Rain [HD DVD] (1984)
Ray (2004)
The Road Warrior [HD DVD] (1981)
A Scanner Darkly [HD DVD] (2006)
The Searchers [HD-DVD] (1956)
Serenity [HD DVD] (2005)
Shaun of the Dead [HD DVD] (2004)
Smokey and the Bandit [HD DVD] (1977)
Superman - The Movie [HD DVD] (1978)
Terminator 3 - Rise of the Machines [HD DVD] (2003)
The 40-Year-Old Virgin (Unrated Special Edition) [HD DVD] (2005)
The Big Lebowski [HD DVD] (1998)
The Bourne Supremacy [HD DVD] (2004)
The Deer Hunter [HD DVD] (1978)
Fast & Furious (HD DVD) (2001)
The Game [HD DVD] (1997)
The Mummy [HD DVD] (1999)
Tim Burton's Corpse Bride [HD DVD] (2005)
TMNT (Combo HD DVD and Standard DVD) [HD DVD] (2007)
Troy [HD DVD] (2004)
Unforgiven [HD DVD] (1992)
V for Vendetta [HD DVD] (2006)
Van Helsing [HD DVD] (2004)

BD Tittles:
300
Alien Vs Predator
Apocalypto
Black Hawk Down
Blood Diamond
Bridge to Terabithia
Casino Royale
Chicken Little
Corpse Bride
The Covenant
Crank
Curse of the Golden Flower
Deja Vu
The Departed
The Devil's Rejects
Dinosaur
Dirty Dancing
Eight Below
Eragon
Fantastic Four
Fifth Element Remastered
Finding Neverland
First Blood
Flyboys
The Fountain
The Fugitive
Guardian
G.I. Jane
Ghost Rider
Glory Road
Gone In 60 Seconds
GoodFellas
Guardian
Haunted Mansion
Hellboy
House of Flying Daggers
Ice Age: Meltdown
IMAX: Blue Planet
Into The Blue
Invincible
King Arthur
Kingdom of Heaven
Kung Fu Hustle
Ladder 49
Letters from Iwo Jima
Memento
Monster House
Music & Lyrics
Night at the Museum
Open Season
Patriot
Pearl Harbor
Phantom of the Opera
Pirates 1&2
Premonition
Primeval
Purple Rain
The Queen
Reign of Fire
Reservoir Dogs
Road Warrior
Rocky Balboa
Roving Mars
Sky High
Species
Speed
Stargate
Stomp the Yard
Stranger Than Fiction
Superman II
Swordfish
TMNT
Tears of the Sun
The Terminator
Terminator 2 - Judgment Day
Total Recall
Training Day
The Transporter
Underworld Evolution
The Usual Suspects
The Wild
X-Men: The Last Stand

[Chris D]

Crap... wish I would have known, too. I take it, it's all over and done with?

[Lex]

even though that is a nice list, I think I have most of what I'd want from that list. I did buy extensively at startup to build a small collection. Now, I am only cherry picking favorite titles basically... In fact, I bought a few I probably should have just passed on. Not to many, but a few anyway...

Oh, I could probably find 3.

Doug

[Lex]

My HD List just for grins: I can't tell you that all these movies are favorites, far from it, but? I wanted a base collection, so I sold some old DVDs and reinvested, got in on deals, got free disks with both my players, etc...

BD Format:

Interpreter
Lord of Wars
Payback Straight Up
Fifth Element (2 copies, 1 free, 1 bought at a big discount,a spare)
Prestige
RV
Click
50 First Dates
Speed
Broken Arrow
Casino Royale
House of Flying Dragon (cheap freebee)
Sahara (used)
Under Siege (Enough Segall right here)
Rumor Has It
Stealth (used)
Tomb Raider
Last Samuri
Enemy of the State
Italian job (both formats)
Pearl Harbor
Total Recall
Crank
Talledahga Nights
Terminator I
Terminator II
Gone in 60 Seconds
Black Hawk Down

HD DVD

Borne Identity
Borne Supremacy
Breakup
Waterworld
Matrix Trilogy box set
Mission Impossible box set
Bullet
Italian Job (both formats)
Swordfish
Million Dollar Baby
Field of Dreams
Terminator 3
Unforgiven (used)
Dukes of Hazzard
Good Shepard
Casino (with player)
12 Monkeys (with player)
Mummy
Cinderella Man
King Kong
Out of Sight
Spy Game]
Departed
Apollo 13
Sky Captain (weird)
U-571
The Game
Fast & Furious
We Were Soldiers

[Chris D]

Ah, you're absolutely right, Vancouver. Major "dive" now in sales for both formats, coming off that sale. Right back to where both formats were.

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/

[Nolan B]

This year's biggest tittle is now up for Pre Order

Transformers

http://www.amazon.com/Transformers-Two-Disc-Special-HD-DVD/dp/B000NU2NJ8

[Hdale85]

Wow its coming out that soon already? I remember back when The Matrix first came out I waited for like 2 years before it came out on DVD.

[aud19]

Probably a push to get it out early to boost HDDVD sales

News on a dual format drive FYI:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?p=357407#post357407

[Hdale85]

Yeah 1200 is too rich for my blood. Close to what I have in my computer without the kb/mouse/lcd.

[Nolan B]

Warner Bros Online Discount Code: 25% off thru 9/30/07

You can use code RNFS through the end of September for all DVD and high definition purchases. $19.95 discs are reduced to $14.97 and $26.95 are just $20.21.

[Hdale85]

Is this on amazon?

[Chris D]

Sweet... wish I owned a HD-DVD player.

[Nolan B]

Is this on amazon?

nope this is when ordering directly from the WB website.

[Nolan B]

Sweet... wish I owned a HD-DVD player.

The sale works for BD tittles too! :T

[Chris D]

Cool! Actually, I was referring to "Transformers", though. Guess I'll just wait...

[vsteel]

Here is my take on the issue.

I hear how X format wins for movies sold, but if you really look at the data its either taken just in a section of the world or just in the time frame when there was a large movie released. I take all of that data with a HUGE grain of salt.

I think most of the general public don't really know off of the top of their head which studio supports which format, what they do know is the price of the player which HD-DVD wins.

Sony wants to keep drive prices high to keep selling PS3, the problem with that though is while a lot of PS3s are used for movies, games that people want to play will be coming out more and more to play and watch movies less. Right now Sony suffers from a good game library, the games are not out right now that can exploit the power of the hardware. Sony is killing backwards compatibility with the PS3 right now to try and get game makers to write only for the PS3.

PS3 40 gig

HD-DVD is available on the Xbox 360 as an addon and there are more out there and its still selling well. Don't forget MS has for all practical purposes bottomless pockets.

The mass market is looking for better than DVD experience because they are going to be looking at all of the new HDTVs they have just bought.

(I don't look at Wii in this at all in the video scene because it doesn't play an advanced format and it is not even the same market at the PS3 or the Xbox 360.)

So what is my point on this. I think if HD-DVD can get mass players out for 200 dollars and under they will win. If PS3 can get some "must have" games out for it that really exploit the power of the system and can get the price down to 350 or less I think blu-ray will win. the PS3 is the only real consumer level player they have and the HD-DVD camp is working more on standalone players alongside the 360 addon.

Bottom line is I think the winner will be decided on the shelves of Walmart.

[Chris D]

Hmmmm... the shelves of Walmart for movies, or the shelves that sell the player?

[vsteel]

I think it will be the hardware. There are enough movies on both sides that are good.

[Blindamood]

The Walmarts near me don't carry either one...guess we're in trouble.

[Nolan B]

This code should give you 25% on the Warner Bros website for HD DVD/BDs. It also includes pre-orders. The deal will last until the end of the month

Code: CTBM


Some suggestions:
Harry Potter Movies
Pans Lab
Oceans Gift Set

***WB does not ship to Canada so this does not work for the better looking people north of the border :M

**if your cart adds up to more then $50 (before tax and shipping) you get free shipping too

[Chris D]

Yeah, the WB site was having problems with the order process for a while. I'll go see if they've fixed it.

[Nolan B]

How many of you are looking forward to Transformers being released on HD DVD this tuesday? I missed it in the theaters, but will be buying it blind when it comes out. There seems to ba a lot of buzz around this release. Are you getting it?

http://www.amazon.com/Transformers-Two-Disc-Special-HD-DVD/dp/B000NU2NJ8/ref=sr_1_1/002-8368728-7663257?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1192158159&sr=1-1

[Race Car Driver]

Nope, i have not bought into the "hd war" yet.

Their loss.

[Chris D]

Well, I ended up doing a big package purchase from Best Buy the other day, including getting a HDMI 1.3 receiver to bitstream audio to. Part of the deal was a Gen 3 HD-DVD player on sale. I was going to get the A35, which is the only player to bitstream HD audio, but it's not in the store yet. So I've got an unopened A30, waiting for an A35 to come in to trade.

So, now that I've finally got both formats, I think I've got an expensive next few months coming up. I figure I'll buy:

- Complete Matrix Trilogy (actually, already ordered it from WB - thanks for the reminder!)
- Transformers
- One Six Right
- Ratatouille
- Cars
- Pixar Short Films
- Spider-man Trilogy
- Maybe other stuff like the Simpsons Movie, Shrek 3,

So, lots of BD and HD-DVD. Also, I'll probably have to get Guitar Hero 3. ... and maybe the entire Lego Star Wars saga on PS3... sheesh... better crack open the wallet.

[Hdale85]

Been debating on getting a PS3 or not....also been debating on just getting stand alone players ORR getting the new Pioneer BD drive thats 300 bucks. I haven't decided as I have had issues with HD-DVD on my pc but I think its because my video card isn't HDCP and I use this program that removes HDCP.

[Chris D]

Wow, what the heck? BD is now showing a jump in sales, with HD-DVD a drop.

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/

With Transformers coming out this Tues, I would have expected a big jump for Transformers, including pre-orders. (like me) Perhaps we'll see that gain this Tues.

[Charles]

BD is running a big BOGO sale. Circuit City is also running one now on BD and HD DVD. Picked up 2 copies of Transformers for $31.80 out the door as well as 14 other HD DVD's. Works on all disc's $29.99 and cheaper. Sale was reported to run through Saturday. may want to visit your local Circuit City and try it, I hit 2 stores this morning and it worked at both.

[Hdale85]

Whats the limit?

[Charles]

No limit other than than the wallet/wife that I've heard, could be at some stores though.

[Lex]

I guess my DVDs will be down in my cylinder head. Valve Adjustment = 871.00 I took it down there this afternoon. I did get a rental car paid overnight at least. sigh...

[Hdale85]

Thats crazy Doug.

I ended up picking up Transformers and We Are Marshall. I'll probably go pick up a few more before Saturday.