HTG official High Definition high octane DVD format war, the aftermath

[Race Car Driver]

Watching my arguments? I feel so privileged. ;x(

I post arguments because that what this thread is; arguing over media formats (kind of pathetic actually), and your "facts" are BDA conjecture. Here's a dose of reality with a dash of hope for you:

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6532685.html

If you feel better shouting out "HD-DVD has lost", good for you, but yes it makes you a fanboy. I will continue to watch whatever format works for me whether Blu-ray, HD-DVD, Apple TV, DVD, VHS, Betamax, Laser Disc, etc. As I said, I enjoy film, not formats.

If the the positon of BR and HD DVD was swapped, I would be saying the same thing. "Its over, Bluray is finished"

But its not, soooo............... what!?

Incase you forgot, this is the HTG official High Definition high octane DVD format war, HD DVD vs BD

Not Bluray VS HDDVD, DVD, Apple TV, Hi speed compressed "hi def" movies etc.

You turned it into that.

[littlesaint]

If the the positon of BR and HD DVD was swapped, I would be saying the same thing. "Its over, Bluray is finished"

But its not, soooo............... what!?

Incase you forgot, this is the HTG official High Definition high octane DVD format war, HD DVD vs BD

Not Bluray VS HDDVD, DVD, Apple TV, Hi speed compressed "hi def" movies etc.

You turned it into that.

Sorry. I guess I forgot the semantics of the thread. I guess it should be locked now that HD-DVD has lost. No more competition in the HD market. Nothing more to talk about. :roll:

[Race Car Driver]

Nice to know you have such a keen interest in my life. 8O

Nope, just noticed the obviously vain comments made by you throughout this thread... One which I have been apart of since day one... Keen interest in whats going on with Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, not your life of posting all over the internet that HD-DVD will survive just fine etc etc.

If you must know, I was given a PS3 as a gift and have been quickly catching up on replacing titles in my DVD library with Blu-ray.

EXACTLY my point..... from what... several posts ago!? Yet you continue, time after time to state that "regular good ol DVD is good enough" and Blu-ray wont be a factor, and wont beat DVD and wont grow, yet you as an idividual are contradicting just about every one of your own posts in this thread with your very actions.

YOU are not special, you are not exclusive, millions of others are going to follow in your footsteps (no your not a leader, dont get a big head just yet)

THIS is why Blu-Ray will continue to grow... Because you and others SEE the benefit in Blu-Ray, its a better format, its better than "good ol DVD" its better than HD-DVD.

And for the record I still plan on buying the new Panny in May.

Feel better now? :roll:

Cool?

[Ovation]

Blu-ray "won" for a variety of reasons, but being "better than HD DVD", as a format, is NOT among those reasons. Every reliable reviewer clearly states that films on each format, using the same video codec, are indistinguishable in picture quality. And while there were, perhaps (don't have the stats handy) more Blu-ray releases with lossless audio, the merits of that in the ears of the general public are infinitesimally small compared to PQ, so it doesn't count in determining a "winner".

Better marketing, more diverse studio support, more diverse hardware manufacturing base--these are among the reasons Blu-ray "won". "Better format"? Perhaps on paper--in the real world, I don't think so. Perhaps when the format is "fully functional" (as it will be soon), it will be better than HD DVD. But as of today, that is NOT the case.

[littlesaint]

Nope, just noticed the obviously vain comments made by you throughout this thread... One which I have been apart of since day one... Keen interest in whats going on with Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, not your life of posting all over the internet that HD-DVD will survive just fine etc etc.



EXACTLY my point..... from what... several posts ago!? Yet you continue, time after time to state that "regular good ol DVD is good enough" and Blu-ray wont be a factor, and wont beat DVD and wont grow, yet you as an idividual are contradicting just about every one of your own posts in this thread with your very actions.

YOU are not special, you are not exclusive, millions of others are going to follow in your footsteps (no your not a leader, dont get a big head just yet)

THIS is why Blu-Ray will continue to grow... Because you and others SEE the benefit in Blu-Ray, its a better format, its better than "good ol DVD" its better than HD-DVD.




Cool?

Personally: HD-DVD was a better format than Blu-ray, but both are a much better format than DVD. However, long-term I feel direct distribution (Internet/Cable/Sat) is the future.

Reality: Consumers are not going to replace their DVD players with $400 HD players (not to mention the $1500 display if they don't have HDTV) that play $30 discs and don't offer a significant advantage in their eyes.

So while I believe DVD is still the format to beat by a wide margin and direct distribution is the future. I will buy whatever format offers the best experience. For now that's Blu-ray and HD-DVD (until Paramount and Universal switch).

It's called having a little perspective.

[hifiguymi]

Sorry but research indicates otherwise. Almost half of HDTV owners polled stated they see no reason to upgrade to HD formats. I agree with you it looks much better than most upscaled DVD. The average consumer however disagrees. It's not my opinion or yours that counts, but J6P who doesn't seem to care at this point.

Now that there is a clear winner and one format in stores, you will see sales increase significantly. Once people see the displays in stores that focus on BD, and more players and movies become available, they will gravitate to it. One thing that I believe will happen in addition is electronics companies will start reducing the number of standard DVD players and increase the number of BD players. Sony now has a new, less expensive blue laser diode that will help reduce the cost of manufacture of players. This will give CE companies an opportunity to make money on hardware again. They make no money on $50.00 DVD players and would be happy to stop selling them.

Only profile 2.0 is hardware complete. 1.1 was a stop gap. The biggest show at CES was Sony's 2.0 demos. Why, because its the marketing tool to compete against DVD which can't compete in that arena. It's ironic that Blu-ray supporters would dismiss the one feature that distinguishes them from DVD which is now the 100 pound gorilla they have to beat to survive.

What don't you get about Profiles? Profile 1.1 is the standard required Profile. Profile 2.0 is OPTIONAL. The biggest marketing tool against DVD is not the special features on the disc, it's picture and sound quality. Either you are being augmentative just to be so (I would hope), you are Toshiba troll (that would be sad), or you're out your mind and don't understand any post that has been put on this board. Blu-ray is about getting the best picture and sound when you watch a movie at home. DVD's now have tons of special features that most people don't watch. Watching special features and purchasing stuff from the movies studios while the movie is playing is not going to matter to the average customer (which, by the way is demeaning to call them J6P and that says a lot about you). Stop being a sore loser.

Eric

[hifiguymi]

Personally: HD-DVD was a better format than Blu-ray, but both are a much better format than DVD. However, long-term I feel direct distribution (Internet/Cable/Sat) is the future.

Reality: Consumers are not going to replace their DVD players with $400 HD players (not to mention the $1500 display if they don't have HDTV) that play $30 discs and don't offer a significant advantage in their eyes.

So while I believe DVD is still the format to beat by a wide margin and direct distribution is the future. I will buy whatever format offers the best experience. For now that's Blu-ray and HD-DVD (until Paramount and Universal switch).

It's called having a little perspective.

Consumers have purchased over a million BD players already at $400.00 and more and you will see them continue to purchase them. I've been in the electronics business for a long time and the players will be less money when the new models come out this summer. It happens every year like clockwork so more and more people will be buying this year. BD's growth rate is outpacing what DVD's growth rate was. Since people want to get the best picture on their HDTV's, that trend will continue.

You are right that DVD is the format for BD to beat and it will take time. DVD didn't replace VHS in a year and a half, so don't expect BD to do it to DVD in that time.

You are probably right that digital downloads will be the prefered option in the future, as much as I don't want it do, but it will take a long time to happen. You keep saying that the average customer won't pay for a $400.00 BD player and you think that they will pay $40.00 - $50.00 a month for the speed required to download movies? There are quite a few people that don't even have access to speeds like that right now anyway. You will see less expensive BD players long before you see people downloading HD movies on a regular basis.

Eric

[littlesaint]

... What don't you get about Profiles? Profile 1.1 is the standard required Profile. Profile 2.0 is OPTIONAL. The biggest marketing tool against DVD is not the special features on the disc, it's picture and sound quality. Either you are being augmentative just to be so (I would hope), you are Toshiba troll (that would be sad), or you're out your mind and don't understand any post that has been put on this board. Blu-ray is about getting the best picture and sound when you watch a movie at home. DVD's now have tons of special features that most people don't watch. Watching special features and purchasing stuff from the movies studios while the movie is playing is not going to matter to the average customer (which, by the way is demeaning to call them J6P and that says a lot about you). Stop being a sore loser.

Eric

How am I a loser exactly? See, that's fanboy speak, and a clear indication of why you just don't get it. If HD-DVD had won, I'd be pointing out all the flaws in its fanboy victory speeches. It's not about winning or losing but about having perspective which you clearly do not. You are blind to the fact that many people just don't see the better quality or don't feel it is worth it. Blind to the fact that HD media two year growth is not following the pace set by DVD during its first two years. This is not my opinion, but documented market research. Hopefully, this changes when Universal and Paramount switch. Hopefully, that will trigger lower prices, but that's still just conjecture and speculation. I like to deal in reality not fantasy.

Even if profile 2.0 is not mandatory, it is still a better hardware spec, and the direction of the format by mandate of the studios. J6P (industry term by the way) is not going to plop down money for a system that isn't feature complete, and as long as 2.0 is available, 1.1 is not feature complete. I'm sure Best Buy would love to explain to confused consumers why they can't play all of the features on their new Blu-ray player. Maybe they can just tell them that no one watches those extra features their paying for so don't worry about it. Now that's good marketing.

I know several people who like me have yet to purchase a Blu-ray player (my PS3 was given to me). Not because cost or out of some devotion to HD-DVD, but because they are waiting for 2.0 players. They don't want to spend money on "half-baked" hardware. Why should consumers think any different.

[Race Car Driver]

How am I a loser exactly? See, that's fanboy speak, and a clear indication of why you just don't get it. If HD-DVD had won, I'd be pointing out all the flaws in its fanboy victory speeches. It's not about winning or losing but about having perspective which you clearly do not. You are blind to the fact that many people just don't see the better quality or don't feel it is worth it. Blind to the fact that HD media two year growth is not following the pace set by DVD during its first two years. This is not my opinion, but documented market research. Hopefully, this changes when Universal and Paramount switch. Hopefully, that will trigger lower prices, but that's still just conjecture and speculation. I like to deal in reality not fantasy.

Even if profile 2.0 is not mandatory, it is still a better hardware spec, and the direction of the format by mandate of the studios. J6P (industry term by the way) is not going to plop down money for a system that isn't feature complete, and as long as 2.0 is available, 1.1 is not feature complete. I'm sure Best Buy would love to explain to confused consumers why they can't play all of the features on their new Blu-ray player. Maybe they can just tell them that no one watches those extra features their paying for so don't worry about it. Now that's good marketing.

I know several people who like me have yet to purchase a Blu-ray player (my PS3 was given to me). Not because cost or out of some devotion to HD-DVD, but because they are waiting for 2.0 players. They don't want to spend money on "half-baked" hardware. Why should consumers think any different.

There you go with that fanboy retort again. :roll:

Have you EVER considered for 1 second that HD media, competing with itself for the first two years HURT its growth? Anyone should be able to see that What did DVD have to compete with? Oh yea... NOTHING! :banghead:
Not only that, but the economy is hurting.. with all that, BluRay is still growing, with everything stacked against it.

Fact- Blu Ray sold 1.5 million discs in Jan-Jul 2007
Fact- Blu Ray sold 6.8 million MORE discs Jul-Dec (4.5 times as much growth in 6 months!)
Fact- Blu Ray sold 1.5 million discs in JUST Jan 2008

Call me a fanboy, thats fine, I would rather be called that then dense!

Hifiguymi- littlesaint isnt being argumentive, he is not a toshiba troll, and he is not out of his mind, hes worse... he is an apple fan... 8O

Back to the original thread topic... BR vs HDDVD..... (but be careful, how dare anyone say Bluray won, because if you do, be prepared to be called a FANBOY!)

[joetama]

NVM...

It has already been posted. Sorry...

[Hdale85]

Toshiba is the only MFG of HD-DVD players and drives so when they stop making players that means HD-DVD is dead and done with. Sure there will be some material floating around for a while but surely Paramount and Universal aren't going to make discs when players aren't being made so obviously they will go BD. Either that or they'll just stick to DVD.

[Chris D]

DVD didn't replace VHS in a year and a half, so don't expect BD to do it to DVD in that time.

Yup... I'll say it again... VHS tapes still outsold DVD discs until about 1-2 years ago. It takes time.

[Lex]

unofficially, as I understand it, Toshiba has decided now to pull the plug on HD-DVD.

According to the News on public radio this morning, Toshiba stock went up 6% when news of their throwing in the towel on loosing format HD-DVD was decided/announced.

We'll be hearing more I am sure if this is accurate...

Personally, I don't see it as a great thing, I think competition is good, kept pricing in check. Now, BD can gouge at will, IMO.

[littlesaint]

unofficially, as I understand it, Toshiba has decided now to pull the plug on HD-DVD.

According to the News on public radio this morning, Toshiba stock went up 6% when news of their throwing in the towel on loosing format HD-DVD was decided/announced.

We'll be hearing more I am sure if this is accurate...

Personally, I don't see it as a great thing, I think competition is good, kept pricing in check. Now, BD can gouge at will, IMO.

At this point, Toshiba pulling the plug on their end is a given. Hopefully there will be some nice fire sales on existing inventory at BB and Amazon. What will be interesting is what Universal and Paramount do. It might be easy for Paramount to go back to Blu-ray production, but Universal is a much bigger change as they have been HD-DVD only from the beginning. If there's any question as to Blu-rays sustainability long term and the costs to switch are significant, they may choose to just stick with DVD until there's a clearer picture on what consumers want. Just speculation at this point, and that certainly would suck for those that want everything in HD, but what's best isn't always what happens. HD-DVD going away is two steps forward for Blu-ray, but if they still can' get 100% studio support, it's another step back.

[littlesaint]

Have you EVER considered for 1 second that HD media, competing with itself for the first two years HURT its growth? Anyone should be able to see that What did DVD have to compete with?

Fact- Blu Ray sold 1.5 million discs in Jan-Jul 2007
Fact- Blu Ray sold 6.8 million MORE discs Jul-Dec (4.5 times as much growth in 6 months!)
Fact- Blu Ray sold 1.5 million discs in JUST Jan 2008

Thanks for helping me prove my point. Blu-ray still has significantly more obstacles in front of it than DVD did, so to just assume it will be successful now that HD-DVD is gone is naive. Just to keep things in...what's that word?...perspective, those sales numbers represent less than 2% of video sales, and the growth rate isn't turning any heads.

Hifiguymi- littlesaint isnt being argumentive, he is not a toshiba troll, and he is not out of his mind, hes worse... he is an apple fan... 8O

That's funny. :rofl:

Makes sense for you to throw that in there. The Mac vs PC debate is the biggest fanboy argument there is. Are the any other areas where you'd like to express your devotion? Coke vs Pepsi maybe? How about SACD vs DVD-A, at least that's a little more relevant.

BTW, nice to know your keeping tabs on all my posts here. :T If I ever need to know something about myself I can just ask you.

[helo]

If there's any question as to Blu-rays sustainability long term and the costs to switch are significant, they may choose to just stick with DVD until there's a clearer picture on what consumers want.

No chance. A company's stock price is dictated by growth and with DVD sales stagnant or falling, HDM is the new growth area. There is no way they miss out on this area.

[littlesaint]

No chance. A company's stock price is dictated by growth and with DVD sales stagnant or falling, HDM is the new growth area. There is no way they miss out on this area.

A companies stock price is dictated by its revenues and profits (hopefully). The impact HDM has on Universal's bottom line is insignificant. Even though DVD sales are down, that doesn't mean HDM is the necessarily the answer. Add to that the production costs of switching to Blu-ray, amortized over x amount of years, and if it doesn't look profitable, they may wait awhile to see if the market really takes off. The point is, missing out on any extra HDM sales over the next few years may not hit the bottom line much at all, especially if the costs to switch are more significant.

[Race Car Driver]

Thanks for helping me prove my point. Blu-ray still has significantly more obstacles in front of it than DVD did, so to just assume it will be successful now that HD-DVD is gone is naive. Just to keep things in...what's that word?...perspective, those sales numbers represent less than 2% of video sales, and the growth rate isn't turning any heads.

Less than 2%.. reallY?! Oh man I didnt know that, better sell my BD stuff!! fire sale fire sale!! :lol: Its called a growing market, gotta start somewhere. HD media (Bluray) will be more than a mere blip on the radar you claim it to be. It takes time, escpecially if were going to compare it to the monster that is DVD. But thats not what this thread is about, its about the two HD media formats in the competition. Anyone with half a brain knows that HD media right now is drop in the bucket compared to DVD. Thats not the arguement here, but your turning into that.

That's funny. :rofl:

Makes sense for you to throw that in there. The Mac vs PC debate is the biggest fanboy argument there is. Are the any other areas where you'd like to express your devotion? Coke vs Pepsi maybe? How about SACD vs DVD-A, at least that's a little more relevant.

Nope, not a fanboy, you need some new material.. really. I dont care what I use, as long as It gets me on the internet and I can check my emails. Im not computer savy, dont really care. I grew up using Macs, (Hell I remember the IIe!)

BTW, nice to know your keeping tabs on all my posts here. :T If I ever need to know something about myself I can just ask you.

Nope, not keeping tabs on your posts here, a quick google search gave me all the info I need.... :W

[helo]

A companies stock price is dictated by its revenues and profits (hopefully).

This isn't necessarily the case. Revenue growth is far more important to investors when valuating stock price. All you have to do is look at what happened to Apple's stock price last quarter after announcing their best revenue and profit quarter ever.

HDM might be a small portion of the companies currently but it will grow at a much faster pace than DVD sales will grow.

[hifiguymi]

Personally, I don't see it as a great thing, I think competition is good, kept pricing in check. Now, BD can gouge at will, IMO.

I really don't think anybody, hardware or software manufacturers, will gouge people just because it's BD. BD has a big hill to climb to become mainstream and pricing themselves out of the market doesn't make sense. I think you'll see players and discs become more affordable this year and every year beyond.

Eric

[Hdale85]

I agree and there will still be more competition between different brands. So players will get cheaper because of that alone.

[littlesaint]

Nope, not keeping tabs on your posts here, a quick google search gave me all the info I need.... :W

So you're stalking me now? :E

I would expect as much over on AVS, but please don't drag this board down to your over obsessive level.

[littlesaint]

HDM might be a small portion of the companies currently but it will grow at a much faster pace than DVD sales will grow.

Really? And you know this because?

Also, just because a market has growth potential doesn't necessarily mean it will be profitable. The DVD market could recede and still remain more profitable than HDM. Plus, studios are also cutting deals with other lines of distribution. It's just not that cut and dry.

[Race Car Driver]

So you're stalking me now? :E

I would expect as much over on AVS, but please don't drag this board down to your over obsessive level.

Your humorous. :lol:

[Lex]

Ok guys, not sure this intense rivalry, but please chill it out...

Dougie, I am more concerned about media prices than I am a hundred or two on players. The long term cost is the biggie, the player is a one time purchase. (in theory at least).

Stock prices can frequently be a large mix of things that influence them, however, forcasting minimizing losses or getting out of things that show no profitability, has always seemed a positive for short term gains in the market value of a stock. Up 6% on the news. Tomorrow, it may loose much of that 6, but the market says, goodie today.

[impala454]

I honestly have found myself not buying much HDM at all lately, due to the prices. Last ones I bought were Bourne 1 & 2, and only did that bc they were BOGO. Bought Crimson Tide on BD only because it's one of my favorite movies, and even then it was a tough swipe at the register. I wonder if we'll see LOTR or Star Wars on BD being announced any time soon. I think those titles could really boost player sales & acceptance.

[H.T.C]

The general consumer doesn't know (isn't told) or hasn't a calibration disc to adjust their hdtv sets properly to achieve optimal picture quality so which format is at retail makes no difference at all to a non-hobbiest but the buyer does understand the television is at least hi-rez.
Manufacturers should try to make things easier and clearer but that doesn't always occur,good example,calling hdtv widescreen when its not and just its width is wider than a standard set but is not scope or panavison.

Forum members should stop calling each other names (fanboys) and hold this site in higher regards and not be like some other forums that seem negative to audio\video and members in general.

[George Bellefontaine]

Forum members should stop calling each other names (fanboys) and hold this site in higher regards and not be like some other forums that seem negative to audio\video and members in general.

I agree with this statement and what Lex said. Disagree by all means, but can the name calling.

[RobP]

I have not been following this topic closely, but I just seen this, Makes you wonder about their last ditch efforts this holiday season to move as many units of their HDDVD units, sounds like a classic pump and dump. :W

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/18/technology/18toshiba.html?_r=2&ref=technology&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

[impala454]

pic says it all...

[impala454]

nevermind I'm dumb ignore that

[Alloroc]

I don't know, you might just be onto something.... I'd pay €20 for a HDDVDP to just to watch Transformers... just

[Chris D]

Huh... that's an interesting pic, impala.

Well, it looks like the announcement that Toshiba was 100% stopping HD-DVD was premature by a bit. Looks like it hasn't happened for sure, but I'd be surprised if it doesn't happen shortly.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/BUSINESS/02/18/toshiba.hddvd.ap/index.html

For poops and giggles last night, I stopped by our local Wal-Mart. (the biggest Super Wal-Mart in the world--interesting factoid--never thought you'd find it in Alaska, eh?) There were only about 60 HD discs for sale. 40 of them BD, 20 of them HD-DVD, all on one end-rack display. All regular price, none on special sales.

[Chris D]

Not sure, but I think I'll hold on to my HD-A35 and HD-DVD movies... I'll lose money if I try to sell, and it's not like they'll stop working. That was a risk we all knew we were taking when we bought either of the formats.

[Race Car Driver]

Interesting note from that article Chris,

Recently, the Blu-ray disc format has been gaining market share, especially in Japan. A study on fourth quarter sales last year by market researcher BCN Inc. found that by unit volume, Blu-ray made up 96 percent of Japanese sales.

Wow.

[RebelMan]

I will continue to watch whatever format works for me whether Blu-ray, HD-DVD, Apple TV, DVD, VHS, Betamax, Laser Disc, etc. As I said, I enjoy film, not formats.

Don't take this personally but I hope you do realize you are making a contradiction here. Or do I need to explain?

[RebelMan]

EXACTLY my point..... from what... several posts ago!? Yet you continue, time after time to state that "regular good ol DVD is good enough" and Blu-ray wont be a factor, and wont beat DVD and wont grow, yet you as an idividual are contradicting just about every one of your own posts in this thread with your very actions.

You noticed too. :P

[RebelMan]

Blu-ray "won" for a variety of reasons, but being "better than HD DVD", as a format, is NOT among those reasons. Every reliable reviewer clearly states that films on each format, using the same video codec, are indistinguishable in picture quality. And while there were, perhaps (don't have the stats handy) more Blu-ray releases with lossless audio, the merits of that in the ears of the general public are infinitesimally small compared to PQ, so it doesn't count in determining a "winner".

Better marketing, more diverse studio support, more diverse hardware manufacturing base--these are among the reasons Blu-ray "won". "Better format"? Perhaps on paper--in the real world, I don't think so. Perhaps when the format is "fully functional" (as it will be soon), it will be better than HD DVD. But as of today, that is NOT the case.

I agree with these statements. Though I don't think that's why real lovers of film are celebrating. Blu-ray won the war but we "all" stand to gain from it. That's why the win is such a big deal.

As I have already stated I was a firm supporter of HD-DVD for about a year and then I switch sides to Blu-ray (for the last two years) because it had much greater potential for survival. My decision was solely based on this principle.

[RebelMan]

Personally: HD-DVD was a better format than Blu-ray, but both are a much better format than DVD. However, long-term I feel direct distribution (Internet/Cable/Sat) is the future.

I don't want to take this discussion off topic but I see very little potential in this concept for the forseeable future. It has possibilities but much work needs to be done. If by long term you mean 10-20 years out I can accept that. Though I see that you weren't so willing to wait the last 10 years of DVD. See where I am going?

Reality: Consumers are not going to replace their DVD players with $400 HD players (not to mention the $1500 display if they don't have HDTV) that play $30 discs and don't offer a significant advantage in their eyes.

If you are so intuned with statistics why do you insist that all BD players cost $400+? Just the other day you were pushing $500. Continue your search. (I do somewhat agree with your latter remarks though. However, in time it will change to favor market conditions just as technology always has.)

[RebelMan]

This will give CE companies an opportunity to make money on hardware again. They make no money on $50.00 DVD players and would be happy to stop selling them.

I have heard that studios subsized player costs. :E

[RebelMan]

You are probably right that digital downloads will be the prefered option in the future, as much as I don't want it do, but it will take a long time to happen. You keep saying that the average customer won't pay for a $400.00 BD player and you think that they will pay $40.00 - $50.00 a month for the speed required to download movies? There are quite a few people that don't even have access to speeds like that right now anyway. You will see less expensive BD players long before you see people downloading HD movies on a regular basis.

Amen brother!

[RebelMan]

I know several people who like me have yet to purchase a Blu-ray player (my PS3 was given to me). Not because cost or out of some devotion to HD-DVD, but because they are waiting for 2.0 players. They don't want to spend money on "half-baked" hardware. Why should consumers think any different.

If this "feature" argument is reality then how do you explain the flashing 12:00 on the majority of VCRs? :roll:

Ever hear of PNP or should I explain? MOST people want appliances not gadgets.

[RebelMan]

Hifiguymi- littlesaint isnt being argumentive, he is not a toshiba troll, and he is not out of his mind, hes worse... he is an apple fan... 8O

Hey RCD MACs are cool! (Yes I use both!) :W

[RebelMan]

Personally, I don't see it as a great thing, I think competition is good, kept pricing in check. Now, BD can gouge at will, IMO.

Did you own a VHS? Remember the price of VHS tapes? Do you still use it (actively)? The competition will be there long after HD-DVD is gone.

[Race Car Driver]

Hey RCD MACs are cool! (Yes I use both!) :W

Agreed! 8)
I was just implying most of the fans, followers, or whatever you want to call them are some of the most dedicted.

And there is nothing wrong with that.

BTW, I was wondering how long it would take for you to mosey back on over to this thread. :lol: