HTG official High Definition high octane DVD format war, the aftermath

[bmowis]

Yeah thats kind of my worry. Is BD going to just leave the prices as is and not bring them down for a long time. No competition is surely not good for us but a format war isn't either. On the other hand the amount of hd media adopters is still rather small so maybe that will push sales?

Who is responsible for prices? BD or the Movie Studios/Distributors? Also keep in mind that there is currently no (real) competitor to DVD, and prices have been quite reasonable since DVD went mainstream.

That's the ticket, IMO. If BD can go mainstream now that things appear to be moving in their direction, prices shouldn't be a problem. However, if BD remains an enthusiast-only market, it could be another story.

[George Bellefontaine]

Who is responsible for prices? BD or the Movie Studios/Distributors?

If you look at the various pricing by studio, I'd have to say it is them setting the price. Look at any Fox title and they are by far the most expensive, with Warner,and perhaps Disney, probably being the more moderately priced. But even if the war is over, the studios better not go crazy with their pricing because standard dvd is still the choice of the masses and both prices of hardware and software will have to come down substantially to get them to switch.

[Race Car Driver]

While in Best Buy tonight I noticed they moved all the BluRays to the front shelf where the "DVD new releases" have previously been at. The "New release DVDs" now have printed brouchures informing everyone what the new releases for the week are.

However BR is now out front for everyone to see...

[George Bellefontaine]

However BR is now out front for everyone to see...

Good to see. Hope some of the local outlets here smarten up and start carrying Blu-ray. In the meantime, it's Amazon.

[impala454]

My Best Buy has always had the BDs at the front. There's the first shelf on the left as you walk into the store, Blu-rays on the front part of the shelf, HD-DVDs on the back...

[impala454]

So now on Amazon there's a Buy 3 for 2 BD sale again. A big question is, are we still going to be seeing as many sales (or really, any at all?) from BD once the format war is fully over?

Do you have a link to the specific sale page? I'm at the amazon blu-ray page and do not see anything.

edit: nm I found it... apparently I'm blind :P

[Hdale85]

I must be blind as well then... because I don't see it anywhere. Help?

[gc8ej25]

I must be blind as well then... because I don't see it anywhere. Help?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?ie=UTF8&plgroup=1&docId=1000196201&tag=bluraynews-20

[Race Car Driver]

Ordered my 3, $42 shipped.

[Chetk]

Wal-Mart To Exclusively Support Blu-ray

[Hdale85]

I wouldn't call that ground breaking... Walmart has a poor selection of HD material at best.

[Race Car Driver]

The "war" is over.

[Ovation]

Does this mean I can go to Wal-Mart and get HD DVDs at fire sale prices? It might motivate me to suspend my boycott (though probably not--however, if this move prompts HD DVD fire sales anywhere else, I'm in).

[RebelMan]

The "war" is over.

Indeed it IS! Some may see this as being smug others will see it as the reality of the situation! This should be seen by EVERYONE as a very good thing as we ALL stand to benefit from it. This IS a wake up call for some and a time to celebrate for others.

[littlesaint]

Indeed it IS! Some may see this as being smug others will see it as the reality of the situation! This should be seen by EVERYONE as a very good thing as we ALL stand to benefit from it. This IS a wake up call for some and a time to celebrate for others.

Except it is not a reality yet. Until you start seeing Blu-ray releases from Universal and Paramount, the war is not over. I also really fail to see how this is a good thing until you have Blu-ray players that people can actually afford. Recent polls have found that while many people are waiting for one format, just as many are waiting for affordable, full-featured (dare I say bug free) players which doesn't look to be happening anytime soon on the Blu-ray side.

What is good for those that buy both formats is that you'll be able to buy really cheap HD-DVD titles while those same titles on Blu-ray will be at regular prices.

[littlesaint]

Does this mean I can go to Wal-Mart and get HD DVDs at fire sale prices? It might motivate me to suspend my boycott (though probably not--however, if this move prompts HD DVD fire sales anywhere else, I'm in).

Have you seen the inside of a Wal-mart lately? 8O You couldn't pay me to step foot in one. :B

[Chris D]

:rofl: That's a good one!

This is the part of the Wal-Mart news story that I found interesting:

"We've listened to our customers, who are showing a clear preference toward Blu-ray products and movies with their purchases," said Gary Severson, Wal-Mart's Senior Vice President of Home Entertainment in a statement.

Who knows if we'll see HD-DVD clearance sales or not. Might just let the HD-DVD stock naturally attrit out, as it's not like HD-DVD isn't selling product anymore. It's still selling, just not like BD.

On CNN's news report about the Wal-Mart thing, I also found interesting that the additional information link they chose to include is how "BD compares to Apple TV". No mention of HD-DVD... perhaps they are considering the war over too?

http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/02/13/apple-tv-vs-blu-ray-how-do-they-stack-up/

[Hdale85]

I never said it wasn't a good thing was just stating that Walmart is nowhere near a big blu-ray seller at all. At most I've seen maybe 20 different movies in that store.

[RebelMan]

Except it is not a reality yet. Until you start seeing Blu-ray releases from Universal and Paramount, the war is not over. I also really fail to see how this is a good thing until you have Blu-ray players that people can actually afford. Recent polls have found that while many people are waiting for one format, just as many are waiting for affordable, full-featured (dare I say bug free) players which doesn't look to be happening anytime soon on the Blu-ray side.

What is good for those that buy both formats is that you'll be able to buy really cheap HD-DVD titles while those same titles on Blu-ray will be at regular prices.

Do you have any doubts? Where were you during the last format war?

Can you recall how long it took for DVD players to reach critical mass? I think significant progress has already been made in this area for the support of hidef media involving Blu-ray discs.

You are making assumptions on media costs. I've not experienced what you described nor do I see that as a plausible issue in the future. Blu-ray's next target will be DVD. I am quite confident to win that battle prices will remain competitive long enough until the cost to manufacture falls inline. By then player and disc affordability will become more ubiquitous and then we'll have something else to discuss hypothetically.

But if prices don't adjust favorably I really could careless. The NetFlix rental fees are the same across the board. That's the reality but you don't have to accept it.

[RebelMan]

I never said it wasn't a good thing was just stating that Walmart is nowhere near a big blu-ray seller at all. At most I've seen maybe 20 different movies in that store.

Same here but I have seen it vary from store to store too. Perhaps now that they have picked sides we'll see more shelf space dedicated to caring the hidef format.

[littlesaint]

Do you have any doubts? Where were you during the last format war?

Can you recall how long it took for DVD players to reach critical mass? I think significant progress has already been made in this area for the support of hidef media involving Blu-ray discs.

You are making assumptions on media costs. I've not experienced what you described nor do I see that as a plausible issue in the future. Blu-ray's next target will be DVD. I am quite confident to win that battle prices will remain competitive long enough until the cost to manufacture falls inline. By then player and disc affordability will become more ubiquitous and will have something else to discuss hypothetically.

But if prices don't adjust favorably I really could careless. The NetFlix rental fees are the same across the board. That's the reality but you don't have to accept it.

You can't use DVD as a benchmark. The difference between VHS and DVD was obvious, and DVDs played on any TV. Not the same for Blu-ray where the difference is not as significant to many who say upscaled DVD is good enough and much cheaper. And these are people who already own HDTVs. You still have to convince those who don't. Progress? HD media was 3% of sales last year, and they already have distribution services breathing down their back. Blu-ray will win the HD media battle, but the real war is years from being decided.

I bought an XA2 last fall and it will remain my DVD player long after HD-DVD fades away as nothing on the Blu side <$1000 can touch it for upscaling. I plan on replacing my PS3 with the new Panny 50 in May. I don't have a problem spending $600 on a media player, but I'm not the market Blu-ray should be interested in unless they want to remain a niche market like SACD or DVD-A. They need a $200 player. Until then DVD will continue to be the format of choice for mainstream consumers.

And you still cannot get HD Universal and Paramount films on Blu-ray.

[Race Car Driver]

You can't use DVD as a benchmark. The difference between VHS and DVD was obvious, and DVDs played on any TV. Not the same for Blu-ray where the difference is not as significant to many who say upscaled DVD is good enough and much cheaper. And these are people who already own HDTVs. You still have to convince those who don't. Progress? HD media was 3% of sales last year, and they already have distribution services breathing down their back. Blu-ray will win the HD media battle, but the real war is years from being decided.

I bought an XA2 last fall and it will remain my DVD player long after HD-DVD fades away as nothing on the Blu side <$1000 can touch it for upscaling. I plan on replacing my PS3 with the new Panny 50 in May. I don't have a problem spending $600 on a media player, but I'm not the market Blu-ray should be interested in unless they want to remain a niche market like SACD or DVD-A. They need a $200 player. Until then DVD will continue to be the format of choice for mainstream consumers.

And you still cannot get HD Universal and Paramount films on Blu-ray.

DVD sales are slowing, Blu-Ray sales are growing, and HD-DVD is going to be DOA well before 1/1/09

DVD sales practicly peaked all the back in 2004, the market is saturated. Going from double digit growth from early 2000 down to 1-2 % growth....

Its over, HDDVD is done, with that BR will continue to pick up steam as DVD starts to melt away. What growth, try a 10 fold increase over 2007.

You can fight it all you want, use whatever excuses you want to make yourself feel better about owning a whatever HDDVD player you have.

BluRay hardware prices are dropping, you want a 200$ player, you wont have to wait much longer.

[Hdale85]

If they can release a BD player for 200 bucks it's going to take off for sure. Look how many HD-DVD players sold when they hit that price during christmas. Also BD needs to release a final spec so that they can stop screwing over early adopters and even current adopters with all the currently changing specs. Have they released a finalized spec?

[RebelMan]

You can't use DVD as a benchmark.

...

Until then DVD will continue to be the format of choice for mainstream consumers.

I don’t think you have the same war I had in mind. Blu-ray has already won the title for HD supremacy which is the subject of this thread, not DVD.

There’s always going to be exceptions but the mainstream wants HD anyway they can reasonably get it. Of course some confusion between HD and widescreen is still commonplace in the mainstream populous but they are learning. Now that the retail heavyweights are taking up position behind a single format they can make a better case for it, that’s the advantage of having a single format.

I generally find myself adopting cutting technology much sooner than many of my equally technical compatriots and light years ahead of my family and friends. The biggest obstacle holding many of these people back has been the lack of “standardization.” They want a piece of the HD action but they don’t want to get burned getting into it. It’s only because of recent events that have led them to finally consider joining the fray. Some objection has been expressed on upfront costs but that was quickly quelled once they compared a REAL hires picture with that of QUASI one.

Toshiba used their players as loss leaders to promote a format. The decision cost them plenty, but then they had a lot at stake to protect. That’s why the players were so cheap. They had to be to compete. That strategy only helped to prolong the inevitable. It wasn’t enough to win a war. As for your XA2, it’s nothing more than a glorified DVD player. The mainstream public has no interest in the scaling capabilities of an XA2 nor are they willing to pay for it. If they had $500 to blow then better alternatives which include real hires capabilities would be at their disposal.

I agree that it will be quite some time before Blu-ray makes significant inroads to becoming the next standard format. DVD is good enough for most people for now but that’s because most people don’t own an HDTV. When HDTV’s become the norm I suspect that you’ll also see the balance of power shift from DVD to BD.

You’re right I can’t get Universal nor Paramount titles on BD and to quite frank with you it sucks. But I am a patient man. Eventually they will succumb and I’ll be ready to accept them into the family when they do. For now the DVD upscaling capabilities of my PS3 will suffice nicely.

Curious, why are you planning to replace your PS3?

[littlesaint]

DVD sales are slowing, Blu-Ray sales are growing, and HD-DVD is going to be DOA well before 1/1/09

DVD sales practicly peaked all the back in 2004, the market is saturated. Going from double digit growth from early 2000 down to 1-2 % growth....

Its over, HDDVD is done, with that BR will continue to pick up steam as DVD starts to melt away. What growth, try a 10 fold increase over 2007.

You can fight it all you want, use whatever excuses you want to make yourself feel better about owning a whatever HDDVD player you have.

BluRay hardware prices are dropping, you want a 200$ player, you wont have to wait much longer.

You're argument contradicts itself. If DVD truly peaked in 2004, then HD media has nothing to do with its decline. It's not a zero sum situation. Blu-rays market is limited to the HDTV market which is still a minority. Add to that a receding US economy and its hardly a time to try sell players and discs costing 2x the established format. Blu-ray players are dropping and cost? Name me a player under $399 MSRP. Now try one that is profile 2.0. How about one not named PS3.

Drop the players to $200. Drop the discs to $20. Then it's a no brainer for J6P to make his next player a Blu-ray player. Until then it's still a niche market.

[littlesaint]

...
Toshiba used their players as loss leaders to promote a format. The decision cost them plenty, but then they had a lot at stake to protect. That’s why the players were so cheap. They had to be to compete. That strategy only helped to prolong the inevitable. It wasn’t enough to win a war. As for your XA2, it’s nothing more than a glorified DVD player. The mainstream public has no interest in the scaling capabilities of an XA2 nor are they willing to pay for it. If they had $500 to blow then better alternatives which include real hires capabilities would be at their disposal.

Your letting your fanboy show through.

The players had nothing to do with the "war" :roll: . It was decided by the studios, and things were a conference call away from going in the opposite direction.

The XA2 is the best DVD or HD player on the market <$1000. It will continue to play HD-DVDs which are about to become much cheaper. The quality and features of HD-DVD is as good (if not better) than Blu-ray, and its scaling capabilities surpass just about anything save a dedicated scaler. I know the public isn't interested. That's my point. No one wants a $500 player no matter what it plays. Something the BDA better figure out.

...
Curious, why are you planning to replace your PS3?

The PS3 is a bust for gaming IMO. I have an Xbox 360, Oppo 980H for SACD, the XA2. I just need a good, full-featured Blu-ray player and the new Panny looks like it. Plus right now, the PS3 will still have some resale value.

[RebelMan]

Your letting your fanboy show through.

That's my intelligence shining through. My foresight was unfortunately myopic. You would have known that two years ago had you been there. I was backing the HD-DVD camp at the time.

The players had nothing to do with the "war" :roll: . It was decided by the studios, and things were a conference call away from going in the opposite direction.

Incorrect. The outcome of the war was decided by the public. :roll: The studios were the catalyst and the players the influence. Had there been only one format this would be moot. Had all the studios back one format this would be moot. Neither was the case. Content is king and that is controlled by the current ruler, DVD. The people have spoken and the studio's listened. Time to get real and with it "little one".

The XA2 is the best DVD or HD player on the market <$1000. It will continue to play HD-DVDs which are about to become much cheaper. The quality and features of HD-DVD is as good (if not better) than Blu-ray, and its scaling capabilities surpass just about anything save a dedicated scaler. I know the public isn't interested. That's my point. No one wants a $500 player no matter what it plays. Something the BDA better figure out.

You are reaching. No one wants to spend $500 on an obsolete player. Most don't want to spend $500 on any player. But many want to buy a hires player. The sweet spot is far below $500 but in case you forgot DVD players took some time to fall in line price wise too. Progress has been made now that there are a number of sub $500 BD players available to choose from. Just take your pick.

The PS3 is a bust for gaming IMO. I have an Xbox 360, Oppo 980H for SACD, the XA2. I just need a good, full-featured Blu-ray player and the new Panny looks like it. Plus right now, the PS3 will still have some resale value.

I can accept your rational but without knowing for sure how you define "full-featured" there is the strong possibility that you'll be short changing yourself down the road. The PS3 is now and will continue to be the dominate BD player in terms of price and performance for the foreseeable future.

[Charles]

Looks like it's a done deal.

TOKYO (Reuters) - Toshiba Corp is planning to stop production of equipment compatible with the HD DVD format for high-definition video, allowing the competing Blu-Ray camp a free run, public broadcaster NHK reported on Saturday.

Toshiba is expected to suffer losses amounting to tens of billions of yen (hundreds of millions of dollars) to scrap production of HD DVD players and recorders and other steps to exit the business, Japan's NHK said on its website.

No one at Toshiba could be reached for comment.

The format war between the Toshiba-backed HD DVD and Sony Corp's Blu-Ray, often compared to the Betamax-VHS battle in the 1980s, has slowed the development of what is expected to be a multibillion dollar high-definition DVD industry.

Toshiba was dealt a blow on Friday when Wal-Mart Stores Inc said it would abandon the HD DVD format, becoming the latest in a series of top retailers and movie studios to rally behind Blu-ray technology for high definition DVDs.

Toshiba plans to continue selling HD DVD equipment at stores for the time being but will not put resources into developing new devices, NHK said.

(Reporting by Nathan Layne, editing by Mike Peacock)

http://www.reuters.com/article/companyNewsAndPR/idUSL1627196120080216

[George Bellefontaine]

Re: Toshiba announcement

You knew it just had to be coming.

Re: Walmart

They never carried much of either HDM format here. I have been looking at the same 12 or so Bluray titles since Christmas and there's been maybe 5 HD DVD titles still sitting there. But one interesting thing I did notice: they had a half dozen or so Venturer HD DVD Players ( that's the Chinese one ) sitting on their shelves since Christmas and they were gone today. Probably moved to one of their larger stores to clear them out.

So c'mon Paramount and Universal, get with the program

[Race Car Driver]

Looks like it's a done deal.

TOKYO (Reuters) - Toshiba Corp is planning to stop production of equipment compatible with the HD DVD format for high-definition video, allowing the competing Blu-Ray camp a free run, public broadcaster NHK reported on Saturday.

http://www.reuters.com/article/compa...27196120080216

I heard about that yesterday at work but didnt have any links or concrete info to provide.

Thanks :T
I bet universal and parmount will be with BD before summer. I can wait.

[Race Car Driver]

You're argument contradicts itself. If DVD truly peaked in 2004, then HD media has nothing to do with its decline. It's not a zero sum situation.

Your excuses are tiring. Where in my "argument" did I state that "DVD sales are slowing because of HD media"?

I didnt. I stated facts.

Fact- DVD sales "peaked" alllllll the way back in 2004. They went from double digit growth starting back in 99/2000 ish down to about 2% growth each year following...

Fact- BluRay sales are expected to have almost a ten fold increase in 2008 vs 2007

Fact- BluRay sales will have a larger yearly % increase then reg old DVD. DVD will not see any more increase in sales..

Fact- If you are not increasing your sales, your dollars, your whatever what are you doing... you cant stay stagnant for too long, you will begin to decline.

Fact- BluRay has beaten HDDVD. Its over.

[NMG]

Fine with me

Now will someone please release a decent BluRay player in the $200-$300 range? I also agree about Universal and Paramount. They will switch over as soon as they possibly can. I also suspect that Toshiba will start making BluRay players as soon as they can.

[hifiguymi]

Name me a player under $399 MSRP. Now try one that is profile 2.0. How about one not named PS3.

As RebleMan pointed out, BD players will drop in price soon. With the new model year products coming in the next 60 to 180 days you will see them at lower prices. It happens every year.

As far as profile 2.0 players are concerned, THE AVERAGE CONSUMER DOESN'T CARE ABOUT WEB INTERACTIVITY. Let me say that again, THE AVERAGE CONSUMER DOESN'T CARE ABOUT WEB INTERACTIVITY. I talk to customers every day about BD and HD-DVD. I try to ask all of them what they think about special features in general and more specifically web based features and the majority don't care. They just want to watch the movie. There are people who do want those features and there will be players for them. Most customers will be happy with a player that isn't Profile 2.0 because they don't watch the special features anyway.

Eric

[George Bellefontaine]

Most customers will be happy with a player that isn't Profile 2.0 because they don't watch the special features anyway.

Eric

Count me as one of the above. The damn special features and all that web crap have, in the case of some players, caused playback issues. Just give me the movie and no playback issues and I'm happy.

[littlesaint]

Your excuses are tiring. Where in my "argument" did I state that "DVD sales are slowing because of HD media"?

I didnt. I stated facts.

Fact- DVD sales "peaked" alllllll the way back in 2004. They went from double digit growth starting back in 99/2000 ish down to about 2% growth each year following...

Fact- BluRay sales are expected to have almost a ten fold increase in 2008 vs 2007

Fact- BluRay sales will have a larger yearly % increase then reg old DVD. DVD will not see any more increase in sales..

Fact- If you are not increasing your sales, your dollars, your whatever what are you doing... you cant stay stagnant for too long, you will begin to decline.

Fact- BluRay has beaten HDDVD. Its over.

Your "facts" are nothing more than conjecture. No one knows if sales will have a ten fold increase. No one knows if it will outpace DVD. This is BDA rhetoric. The reality is Blu-ray has won the HD media battle. Whether it is viable on its own still remains to be seen. It still needs support from Universal and Paramount. It still needs a pricing model that is appealing to all consumers. It is getting new competition from content delivery services, and its potential market is still limited to HDTV owners many of whom are perfectly happy with upscaled DVD. Good luck with that.

You also don't seem to understand that I don't care if Blu-ray "won". I enjoy film, not formats. The point is it's a shallow victory at best until the BDA can show it is a viable long-term platform. So save the victory speeches until you've really won something. I know you want justification for your PS3 purchase and without Blu-ray winning, that's hard to do. So be happy it beat HD-DVD, but at least try to have some perspective on what is really going on in the market.

[littlesaint]

As RebleMan pointed out, BD players will drop in price soon. With the new model year products coming in the next 60 to 180 days you will see them at lower prices. It happens every year.

As far as profile 2.0 players are concerned, THE AVERAGE CONSUMER DOESN'T CARE ABOUT WEB INTERACTIVITY. Let me say that again, THE AVERAGE CONSUMER DOESN'T CARE ABOUT WEB INTERACTIVITY. I talk to customers every day about BD and HD-DVD. I try to ask all of them what they think about special features in general and more specifically web based features and the majority don't care. They just want to watch the movie. There are people who do want those features and there will be players for them. Most customers will be happy with a player that isn't Profile 2.0 because they don't watch the special features anyway.

Eric

The consumers may not, but the studios do, and they are the ones deciding the landscape. The extra features are what is going to distinguish Blu-ray against DVD, especially when many consumers don't see the increased resolution. It's a marketing tool like any other "special edition" product. Also it's not about the features of profile 2.0 per se. It's about having a "completed" hardware spec. Not having to worry whether what I'm purchasing today will work 2-3 years down the road with no more than a downloadable firmware update.

[hifiguymi]

The consumers may not, but the studios do, and they are the ones deciding the landscape. The extra features are what is going to distinguish Blu-ray against DVD, especially when many consumers don't see the increased resolution. It's a marketing tool like any other "special edition" product. Also it's not about the features of profile 2.0 per se. It's about having a "completed" hardware spec. Not having to worry whether what I'm purchasing today will work 2-3 years down the road with no more than a downloadable firmware update.

I don't think you really have an idea what's going on in the market place. The "upconverting" DVD players that the average customer in now buying (in the sub $100.00 range) look HORRIBLE. Any BD player is going to look MUCH better. The only reason people say they are happy with those DVD players is because of marketing saying they are "near HD quality". Those players are not "near HD quality", not by a long shot. If customers are so easily convinced that they need a TV that's 1920 x 1080 in 37" - 46" size range, they will be convinced they need a BD player to connect to it. Now that there is a clear winner in the HD disc area customers will not be as hesitant to look at purchasing one. Once they see them at stores or in freinds homes they will start buying.

As far as the Profile issue goes, I don't know where you are on that front now. You say there is no completed hardware spec? Yes there is. There is Profile 1.1 which is mandatory and 2.0 that is optional. If a disc has web features on it, it will play in 1.1 (and probably 1.0) players, you just won't have access to the web features. As I said before, for most people don't care about the features anyway. The Profile 1.0 players don't have a second video decoder for the PIP features (again the features that most people don't care about). For the customers that care, they will look for the correct Profile version. For everyone else, they will just watch the movie and enjoy the better picture and sound which is what they want.

Eric

[Race Car Driver]

Your "facts" are nothing more than conjecture. No one knows if sales will have a ten fold increase. No one knows if it will outpace DVD. This is BDA rhetoric.

Sony does.I dont recall, maybe I can dig up the article, but it was something along the lines of 4.7 million sales in 2007 to over 40 in 2008. Sony said that BEFORE Best Buy, Netflix, Walmart and Toshiba announced basicly that HDDVD is dead.

I dont think they will have a hard time reaching that goal. It will happen.

The reality is Blu-ray has won the HD media battle. Whether it is viable on its own still remains to be seen. It still needs support from Universal and Paramount. It still needs a pricing model that is appealing to all consumers. It is getting new competition from content delivery services, and its potential market is still limited to HDTV owners many of whom are perfectly happy with upscaled DVD. Good luck with that.

Do you really think Paramount and Universal are going to avoid BR when HDDVD is already no more? I dont think so.

You also don't seem to understand that I don't care if Blu-ray "won". I enjoy film, not formats. The point is it's a shallow victory at best until the BDA can show it is a viable long-term platform. So save the victory speeches until you've really won something. I know you want justification for your PS3 purchase and without Blu-ray winning, that's hard to do. So be happy it beat HD-DVD, but at least try to have some perspective on what is really going on in the market.

For someone who doesnt care, you sure seem to argue against Blu-Ray with every tooth and nail. I have sat and watched you do it for the last several pages and its rather pathetic.

[Chris D]

TOKYO (Reuters) - Toshiba Corp is planning to stop production of equipment compatible with the HD DVD format for high-definition video, allowing the competing Blu-Ray camp a free run, public broadcaster NHK reported on Saturday.

Toshiba is expected to suffer losses amounting to tens of billions of yen (hundreds of millions of dollars) to scrap production of HD DVD players and recorders and other steps to exit the business, Japan's NHK said on its website.

Ouch... regardless of how you anyone votes in the format war, that really sucks for Toshiba, and it's tough to see such a hard blow for any industry company.

[littlesaint]

For someone who doesnt care, you sure seem to argue against Blu-Ray with every tooth and nail. I have sat and watched you do it for the last several pages and its rather pathetic.

Well, at the moment I own more Blu-ray titles than HD-DVD, so think whatever you want. As I said its only personal for fanboys. Hey, if you think you won something great. You continue to champion one format against all others. I'll continue to watch films on whatever format they happen to play best. Best of luck to your cause.

[littlesaint]

I don't think you really have an idea what's going on in the market place. The "upconverting" DVD players that the average customer in now buying (in the sub $100.00 range) look HORRIBLE. Any BD player is going to look MUCH better. The only reason people say they are happy with those DVD players is because of marketing saying they are "near HD quality". Those players are not "near HD quality", not by a long shot. If customers are so easily convinced that they need a TV that's 1920 x 1080 in 37" - 46" size range, they will be convinced they need a BD player to connect to it. Now that there is a clear winner in the HD disc area customers will not be as hesitant to look at purchasing one. Once they see them at stores or in freinds homes they will start buying.

Sorry but research indicates otherwise. Almost half of HDTV owners polled stated they see no reason to upgrade to HD formats. I agree with you it looks much better than most upscaled DVD. The average consumer however disagrees. It's not my opinion or yours that counts, but J6P who doesn't seem to care at this point.

As far as the Profile issue goes, I don't know where you are on that front now. You say there is no completed hardware spec? Yes there is. There is Profile 1.1 which is mandatory and 2.0 that is optional. If a disc has web features on it, it will play in 1.1 (and probably 1.0) players, you just won't have access to the web features. As I said before, for most people don't care about the features anyway. The Profile 1.0 players don't have a second video decoder for the PIP features (again the features that most people don't care about). For the customers that care, they will look for the correct Profile version. For everyone else, they will just watch the movie and enjoy the better picture and sound which is what they want.

Eric

Only profile 2.0 is hardware complete. 1.1 was a stop gap. The biggest show at CES was Sony's 2.0 demos. Why, because its the marketing tool to compete against DVD which can't compete in that arena. It's ironic that Blu-ray supporters would dismiss the one feature that distinguishes them from DVD which is now the 100 pound gorilla they have to beat to survive.

[Race Car Driver]

Well, at the moment I own more Blu-ray titles than HD-DVD, so think whatever you want. As I said its only personal for fanboys. Hey, if you think you won something great. You continue to champion one format against all others. I'll continue to watch films on whatever format they happen to play best. Best of luck to your cause.

Again, more assumptions on your part. "Fanboys" seems to be your only retort to anyone that makes the OBVIOUS comment that HD-DVD was/is/has lost. You have used it several times in this thread.

:roll:

Its quite annoying when people like you post just for the sake of arguement, and when facts are posted you still find lame excuses continue on. Never once did imply that hope BR wins because of any type of "fanboy" status.

Actually I contemplated getting HD DVD back around thanksgiving, it almost got me with the price drop. I even posted that in this thread.

However BDA being the superior format, and outselling HDDVD every week for over a year I held out. As a matter of fact, I didnt buy my PS3 until 4 weeks ago.....

What did I benefit? A cheaper player and the comfort of knowing I didnt buy a dying format.

If that makes me "fanboy", guilty as charged. :rofl:

I kept quite while I watched your arguements with no substance for weeks. However its now quit old, so I spoke up. And because of that I am labled a "fanboy that champions one format"

And that is almost laughable, but rather pathetic.

[Race Car Driver]

As long as Universal and Paramount are releasing quality films on HD-DVD, it will survive just fine. This is not a zero-sum game like everyone makes it out to be.

WB can say anything they want in a PR. All they know is for their films, they are selling more BD than HD-DVD so it makes sense they would go that way. Paramount saw it different. The actual overall numbers show that HD is a spec in sales numbers regardless of format.

Blu-ray is not the better option for consumers. The players are still to expensive, and there still is no platform standardization which is confusing to average consumers. The best option for consumers is still DVD, and sales numbers prove it. J6P just doesn't see what the big deal is compared to upconverting players (assuming he has an HDTV in the first place), and with discs still costing 2x and players more expensive, he's not buying.

Again, this whole statement is wrong. You made the statement and I kept quite and let you make your path. HDDVD will and did fail, even with Universal support, and the best option is NOT DVD. It just happens to be the common option, the common option of a stagnant format.

"He" is buying, BD is increasing in sales... every day.

Why purchase an HD-DVD player? Simple, to watch Universal and Paramount films in HD. The same reason I'll purchase a BD player come May; to watch Warner films in HD, and pickup the few Fox, Sony, and Disney films I'm interested in.

If BD is producing 2 to 3 times as many films (with all those studios involved), shouldn't it be expected that they sell 2 to 3 times as many? Like I said twice as much crap is still crap. And that's still insignificant to the number of DVDs sold. This debate is purely academic. There is no winner.

So early January you dont have a Blu-ray player, you state that you will buy one in May, but yet today, Feb 16th you state you have more Blu-Ray titles than HD-DVD??

Either
1- your full of it
2- something between Jan and Feb lit a fire under your butt you go out and buy a bunch of BD movies..

Which is it?

[littlesaint]

Again, more assumptions on your part. "Fanboys" seems to be your only retort to anyone that makes the OBVIOUS comment that HD-DVD was/is/has lost. You have used it several times in this thread.

:roll:

Its quite annoying when people like you post just for the sake of arguement, and when facts are posted you still find lame excuses continue on. Never once did imply that hope BR wins because of any type of "fanboy" status.

Actually I contemplated getting HD DVD back around thanksgiving, it almost got me with the price drop. I even posted that in this thread.

However BDA being the superior format, and outselling HDDVD every week for over a year I held out. As a matter of fact, I didnt buy my PS3 until 4 weeks ago.....

What did I benefit? A cheaper player and the comfort of knowing I didnt buy a dying format.

If that makes me "fanboy", guilty as charged. :rofl:

I kept quite while I watched your arguements with no substance for weeks. However its now quit old, so I spoke up. And because of that I am labled a "fanboy that champions one format"

And that is almost laughable, but rather pathetic.

Watching my arguments? I feel so privileged. ;x(

I post arguments because that what this thread is; arguing over media formats (kind of pathetic actually), and your "facts" are BDA conjecture. Here's a dose of reality with a dash of hope for you:

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6532685.html

If you feel better shouting out "HD-DVD has lost", good for you, but yes it makes you a fanboy. I will continue to watch whatever format works for me whether Blu-ray, HD-DVD, Apple TV, DVD, VHS, Betamax, Laser Disc, etc. As I said, I enjoy film, not formats.

[littlesaint]

....
So early January you dont have a Blu-ray player, you state that you will buy one in May, but yet today, Feb 16th you state you have more Blu-Ray titles than HD-DVD??

Either
1- your full of it
2- something between Jan and Feb lit a fire under your butt you go out and buy a bunch of BD movies..

Which is it?

Nice to know you have such a keen interest in my life. 8O

If you must know, I was given a PS3 as a gift and have been quickly catching up on replacing titles in my DVD library with Blu-ray.

And for the record I still plan on buying the new Panny in May.

Feel better now? :roll: