Bordeaux Speaker Kit Build

[Mikerodrig27]

I just recently finished building the Bordeaux speaker kit by Jim Holt and Curt Campbell. It is a great kit with a great set of plans. Very refined and thorough. Jim was available to answer questions and took the time to Email me information as well as pictures of his build process.

They are incredibly detailed. I bought the kit from Leland at Speaker Hardware. He was great at getting the components out and being accommodating. I was the first to buy the kit from him so I was the guinea pig.

[Mikerodrig27]

All of the notes are above the photo that I am talking about.



This is me dry fitting one of the bass cabinets. I suggest doing this so you can see if any boards are wider than the others and for fitment. It is also practice for glueing them up.



This is after I had cut the openings in all of the brace pieces. I didn't notice in the notes that Jim had made them all different widths. I think I cut them all to 1 1/4". I wouldn't get to crazy about making them all pretty. I did a 1/4" round-over on all of them and did the corners with a forstner bit. Cutting the holes in them was more time consuming than I thought it was going to be. Also keep in mind that the vertical braces are offset. I believe the plans are marked for the wood on center. I measured 3/8" from the plans to mark the edge of the wood.

[Mikerodrig27]

Here they are all glued up with me trying the baffle piece on the front to make sure it was large enough



Below are a bunch of pictures of the top cabinet's guts. I wanted to get different angles to help anyone in the future.



The back baffle is flush with the PVC. I cut the hole slightly small and used a flush trim bit to flush it up



This is the access cutout. This is for you to get your hand in the bottom part of the top cabinets to work. It is tight but functional.



This is the knockout for the bottom of the tweeter where the connections are. I followed the plans and realized that has to be cut out further. Also, the corners for the tweeter hole in this picture are round. They need to be cut square. I used a file, wood saw and chisel to accomplish that.

[Mikerodrig27]

This is a profile shot of the top cabinet innards. I wanted to show this so you can see how to orient the boards.



This is the front inner baffle. The hole is cut smaller than the diameter of the PVC tube. It receives a roundover. Plans call for a 3/4. I noticed that there is a gap between the baffle and the pipe. I filled it with caulk to smooth it out.

[Mikerodrig27]

I will add more later. Let me know if the pictures load. I am posting them from Google Photo which is new for me.

[scottvalentin]

Only the last photo and 3rd to last loaded - I want to see!!

[Mikerodrig27]

Okay, I will give it another shot. I loaded from my wifes computer and it worked. I tried it on my phone and it did what you are saying. I am going to try imgBB

[Mikerodrig27]

i made these four baffle pieces seperately due to the materials I had. I bought a used mahogany bookcase that was falling apart at all of the glue joints for I think $5 or $10. I took all of the pieces, cleaned them up and reglued them to make boards. I laminated maple, mahogany and oak to get the pattern. In this picture I am orienting them in such a way that they look like they were made out of a continuous pieces of wood.



This is a picture of me gluing the top cabinet together and putting it on the bottom to make sure it was going to match well dimensionally. I used a combination of 18 gauge nails and glue. I used a pneumatic nail gun.



I can't remember if the plans called for it but I cut a recess for the port tube. I used a Jasper Circle cutting jig to do all of my circles. It is accurate. It is good to have scrap to check that you have it set up correctly before you use it to your project.



Here are the cables I made to go from the top cabinet to the lower. They took a while to make as I have never done that braid with anything before. Here is the video I watched to figure it out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iX55CV3u8Q

Here are the cables

[Mikerodrig27]

Here I am starting to veneer them, I bought the veneer from veneer supplies. It was relatively inexpensive. I think it was around $100 shipped for a 4'x10' piece of mahogany veneer. Good quality to. Very clean.



I had never veneered before so I learned a lot. I used solvent based contact cement. I was considering using other stuff that was recommended by different veneer websites but I had a decent amount of contact cement and had great luck using it in the past. This goes against the popular opinion.

A way to trim it is to set the recently veneered surface on a flat table and use a razor blade to cut the veneer off. Ultimately, you don't have to cut all of the way through. You can score it a couple of times with the blade and bend the veneer and it will pop off.





This is the amount that I let the veneer overhang. If you are doing a continuous run of veneer, you will want less overhang so the grain matches up better.



After I finished veneering the speakers

[Mikerodrig27]

I put some mineral spirits on the top cabinet to show the color difference when wet



Checking that the front outer baffles will fit



I spent a lot of time checking the positioning and accuracy of my setup with the circle jig as I knew I wasn't going to get another shot at it. If I screwed one cut up, I was going to have to figure out another solution for the baffles. It is good to check your cuts on scrap pieces and make sure fitment of the driver works well









Here I am gluing the front baffles on. The boards that I used to distribute the force on the back screwed up the paint so I had to sand and repaint the backs. I used a primer then satin black which was the same as before. Cans of spray paint.

[Mikerodrig27]

Here I am cutting the baffles close to flush. It is good to adjust the table saw a little at a time to get it as close as possible without risking cutting the cabinet. It is good to get the panels as close to flush as you can before taking a router with a flush trim bit to them,







Here is one top and bottom cab after I had flush trimmed them and rounded the corners. The plans call for 3/4" roundovers on the bottom and 1/2" on top. I did 1/2" top to bottom as I wanted them to match



Next to my forte 1's I was using before. (great speakers btw)



Starting to put finish on them. I did around 6 coats of wipe on poly (1/2 mineral spirits 1/2 semi-gloss polyurethane).

[Mikerodrig27]

Here is a small issue that I ran into. The plans call for a notch out of the front inner baffle and the horizontal shelf brace in the top cabinet. The notch needs to be cut out into the outer baffle a ways otherwise the tweeter wires interfere with fitment. It is pretty straight forward when you try to fit it in. I used a chisel to knock it out further.



For the speakon connectors, I believe you need 1/4" spade connectors. They are the smaller than typical ones. Otherwise they can contact each other. Another thing to mention is to pay attention to the crossover schematic. On Efalegalo's schematic, the crossover's positive is connected to the negative of the tweeter and mid. I didn't realize that at first and the speakers sounded really thin and anemic. I was nervous the bordeaux's weren't all they were cracked up to be until I fixed realized it. Whew! Just for an extra measure of security I put shrink wrap on the connections.

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?44303-The-Bordeaux-Crossover-Help-Needed-DIY-Gurus-please-chime-in/page2

[Mikerodrig27]

Here are a few pictures of the back with the drivers in place





This is me putting the accoustic foam and other stuff in the mid tunnel. The kit I bought from Leland was a bare bones kit. He doesn't sell the foam so I ordered that from Meniscus. For the mid tunel you use the polyfill type stuff. It comes in a sheet. I pulled it apart to about a loose wad the size of the 6" tunnel and wrapped it in the 1" thick acoustic foam and put it all in the tunnel. Then I cut four pieces of the 1" foam to make the 4" plug that keeps all of the mids foam guts in place. I used a piece of scrap from the 6" pipe as a template to cut the foam circles against. I cut the three that go on the inside to the inside diameter and the one that faces the outside I cut to the outside diameter of the pipe so it had a nice friction fit. Sounds complicated but It really isn't that bad.









I used two layers of the flat 1" foam on the sides of the tweeter cavity. It seemed to be around the same amount as what Jim had in his. Unfortunately, I don't have a picture of it.

[Mikerodrig27]

Here is the bass cabinet after I had stuffed it with the pyramid foam. Jim said to place the foam anywhere you can see looking through the driver cutouts. This includes some areas in the bottom third. I ran out of the 2" pyramid foam so I used some 1" flat foam that I found from a shipment. It seemed to dampen noise so I put it in there.







One thing to pay attention to is the dimensions of the bracing openings. I believe I made them all 1 1/4" which seems to have covered the port tube slightly. I don't know if this is an issue but the bass seems great on these speakers. If it should improve them to get rid of the extra material around the port tubes, I could do so with some effort.

[Mikerodrig27]

I am not a crossover guy (especially since this was my first speaker build) so I built these by taking some ideas from Jims. I made the board "L" shaped to pack it in the box more economically and have less board restricting airflow to the port tube. I put the tweeter circuit on the smaller board and the mid and woofer on the larger part. The speakers sound really good so I assume I got it right.



I liked Jims method of pinching the wire with the contact from the crossover components. makes a mechanical connection to hold it in place as you solder. I also used my wire strippers to cut the insulation of portions of the wires to solder to. From what I can gather, it doesn't matter where the grounds are connected. Just the positives. All of the grounds and speaker negatives are tied together.



I used hot snot to hold it all together. Not preferred by alot of people but I will check them after a while and see if anything has come apart. I didn't have zip ties on me and didn't feel like making a trip to the store as I only have so much free time.



If anyone see's any issues with the layout of the crossovers, let me know and I can find some time to change them.

[Mikerodrig27]

Lastly, here are some pictures of them complete

[CADman_ks]

Here I am cutting the baffles close to flush. It is good to adjust the table saw a little at a time to get it as close as possible without risking cutting the cabinet.

Those are VERY VERY nice cabinets!!

I must say that you are a lot more brave than I am! I would never attempt that trim with a tablesaw!! EEEKKK!!!

That is the perfect candidate for a flush trim router bit. Use the tablesaw to get close, and then finish off the last 1/16" or so with the flush trim.

Looks like the saw worked though!!!

GREAT project!!

[Mikerodrig27]

Yes, I edited that post to include that I used a router with a flush trim bit. I used the table saw to get close. I am sure there will be more edits as I am not the best with details like that! Lol. Thanks!

[Jim Holtz]

Very nice! Excellent job! :T

Have you had a chance to spend some time listening to them yet?

Jim

[CADman_ks]

Yes, I edited that post to include that I used a router with a flush trim bit. I used the table saw to get close. I am sure there will be more edits as I am not the best with details like that! Lol. Thanks!

Whew!!! Now my heart can stop racing in fear.

Very nice! Excellent job! :T

Have you had a chance to spend some time listening to them yet?

Jim

Duh, is this not the most important question??? Cabinets are nice, but how do they sound man!!!!??!??!?!?

[Heli-Tim]

Looks great! Looking forward to your listening impressions!

[Mikerodrig27]

Jim and CADman, yes. I have spent some time with them. I let them play yesterday for most of the day to help break them in which they needed. I went to a couple of stores and let them play while I was out of the house.

They are crystal clear. Clearer than any other speaker I have heard. They also have the best mids and highs out of everything I have heard. The longer you sit with them, the more you start to realize how great these speakers are. The bass cabinet is also pretty powerful. I put a 23hz tone through it for a minute or two and it was surprisingly strong at that frequency. That is a good way to find leaks...

There are a lot of songs that have details that these bring out. Soft songs with light percussion is nice to listen to. The tweeters are very accurate and detailed sounding which really helps bring out the tiny details. The Accuton is amazing as well. Some CD's I listened to:

-Santana Supernatural
-BB king and eric clapton's "Riding With The King"
-Eric Clapton's Unplugged
-Miles Davis Kind of Blue (A lot of things I didn't know were in this CD)
-Soundtrack to The Mambo Kings (this is a great set of songs. amazing musicians. Lots of percussion and great voices)

Listen to the trumpet player in this at around a minute in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeUJen_57Ro

The most important thing is like with any speaker, you need to spend a lot of time listening to them to really get the experience.

Thanks for the design. I now have a really nice set of speakers!

[Supernova]

Great work, they look fantastic.:T [Now we need your listening review (never mind). doh.. you beat me to it.

[Jim Holtz]

Jim and CADman, yes. I have spent some time with them. I let them play yesterday for most of the day to help break them in which they needed. I went to a couple of stores and let them play while I was out of the house.

They are crystal clear. Clearer than any other speaker I have heard. They also have the best mids and highs out of everything I have heard. The longer you sit with them, the more you start to realize how great these speakers are. The bass cabinet is also pretty powerful. I put a 23hz tone through it for a minute or two and it was surprisingly strong at that frequency. That is a good way to find leaks...

There are a lot of songs that have details that these bring out. Soft songs with light percussion is nice to listen to. The tweeters are very accurate and detailed sounding which really helps bring out the tiny details. The Accuton is amazing as well. Some CD's I listened to:

-Santana Supernatural
-BB king and eric clapton's "Riding With The King"
-Eric Clapton's Unplugged
-Miles Davis Kind of Blue (A lot of things I didn't know were in this CD)
-Soundtrack to The Mambo Kings (this is a great set of songs. amazing musicians. Lots of percussion and great voices)

Listen to the trumpet player in this at around a minute in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeUJen_57Ro

The most important thing is like with any speaker, you need to spend a lot of time listening to them to really get the experience.

Thanks for the design. I now have a really nice set of speakers!

Awesome! I'm really pleased you're enjoying the Bordeaux. The Accuracy, detail and clarity are addictive. You rediscover your music collection!

Again, beautiful cabinets!

Enjoy the music!

Jim

[theSven]

Your build looks fantastic and the finish is very nice on the eye!

[CADman_ks]

The finish looks really nice!

I've never used that wipe on poly for speakers, but I have for other projects, and is EASY, and the finish is very forgiving, unlike traditional poly, which looks GREAT, but is not always forgiving.

I should have used wipe on when I built my sub, but I decided that I wanted traditional in case someone set a drink on it without a coaster. I had several fights with traditional on there...

[Paul Ebert]

Congrats on a superb build! Awesome execution.

Did your kit have the revised crossover due to the AST2560 production change? I'm considering using the AST2560 in another design and I'm wondering how low it can be crossed-over for, say, 87 dB resultant level.

[drmike]

speaker hardware speaker flats

hey mike,
great job! does speaker hardware also do these in Baltic birch?
thanks, drmike

[Mikerodrig27]

The finish looks really nice!

I've never used that wipe on poly for speakers, but I have for other projects, and is EASY, and the finish is very forgiving, unlike traditional poly, which looks GREAT, but is not always forgiving.

I should have used wipe on when I built my sub, but I decided that I wanted traditional in case someone set a drink on it without a coaster. I had several fights with traditional on there...

It works great. The process is to wipe it on give it a minute and then wipe the excess away. I didn't wipe the excess away so that the grain would fill just a little bit. I did sand between coats though.

Congrats on a superb build! Awesome execution.

Did your kit have the revised crossover due to the AST2560 production change? I'm considering using the AST2560 in another design and I'm wondering how low it can be crossed-over for, say, 87 dB resultant level.

I used the revised crossover. It is a great tweeter. I wouldn't know how to help regarding the 87 db resultant level. Maybe Curt or Jim would have some input.

hey mike,
great job! does speaker hardware also do these in Baltic birch?
thanks, drmike

I bought boards of MDF from Lowes so I never talked to Leland (owner of Speaker Hardware) about a flat pack. Might be worth shooting him an Email. These cabinets are dead with me having used MDF.

[Seattle]

hey mike,
great job! does speaker hardware also do these in Baltic birch?
thanks, drmike

I haven’t purchased from them but was on the website recently looking at the flatpacks. They are made from Russian Birch ply.

[Mikerodrig27]

I found some pictures of the bookshelf I scavenged the wood from for the front baffle and some pics of me making the front baffle. Maybe they'll give someone else some ideas.

The bookcase at Habitat for Humanity. was $10


I have these two pretty straight rails, sometimes I will glue things on them













I see all kinds of stuff at habitat. I scavenged the oak from a TV cabinet that was on the side of the road. The maple was given to me. The darker stripes in the center are the mahogany turned 90 degrees from the wide panels of mahogany.

It goes

Mahogany > Oak > Mahogany > Maple > Mahogany < maple < mahogany < oak < Mahogany

[Supernova]

Excellent scavenging and woodworking skills, you have.

[707kevin]

I am 100% taking inspiration from your baffle pattern for my Anthologies I started working on recently! It's got such a cool 50's surf vibe to it. I'll have to use veneer, but I think I can pull it off somehow. My wife and I both really like the look of these, excellent work!

[Mikerodrig27]

It sounds like you're getting them dialed in nicely. They are designed to be pointed straight ahead rather than pointed at the listener. That is approximately 15 degrees off axis in most listening rooms and will provide the flattest frequency response. It also allows for a wide listening position with no head in the vice problems.

OK, I don't think corner bass traps would be a problem but don't do absorption panels on the walls behind the speakers or in close proximity to the area where the rear sound waves will be muffled. Experiment to see what works the best for your room. Reflection points on the side walls should benefit from absorption material, however, again experiment to see what works best.

Disclaimer; I don't have any wall treatments in my room so the above recommendations are creative thinking.

Let us know how it turns out.

Jim

The above quote is a response from a question I had asked Jim in the main Bordeaux thread. I wanted to post here so that I didn't take over that one.

I tried setting them up at 15 degrees off axis today. I pretty much have my speakers setup as an equilateral triangle between them and my listening position. I never really checked into how far off axis I was from my listening position but it was pretty far off. I originally had them toed in slightly but it wasn't nearly enough.

I tried taking a speed square and referencing the front center of the speaker adjusting the square to 15 degrees. I put a long piece of wood against the square and used it as a pointer. I turned the speakers until the pointer was pointed at my listening position. This made a positive difference in the sound.

I also built a small rack for the sound equipment (to open the area up) and laid down a larger rug that I got for free to help with sound absorption. Those two things helped as well. I still need to make some acoustic treatments for the wall. I would like to have some nice art printed on fabric and stuff the panels with rockwool or something like that. The room is fairly dead but the first reflection points are still exposed and need to be taken care of at some point.

The last thing that I did was I swapped out the Adcom GFP 565 for a Haffler DH-101 that I completely rebuilt with new power supply componants, new caps throughout and new gold RCA connections. It is a great preamp. Performs much better than I expected it to.

I'll upgrade my progress once I get around to doing some more stuff but am enjoying these little tweaks in the mean time.

[sfdoddsy]

Great build. Do you recall (or have written anywhere), the cutout and rebate dimensions for the tweeter?

I'm seeing different numbers each source I check.

[Mikerodrig27]

It has been so long that I don't remember exact details.

I used the actual tweeter to set up a template on the front baffle.

I took the tweeter, measured based off of the plans to set it in the right spot on the front baffle and set pieces of wood against it with a couple of pieces of paper between them and the tweeter (to make a gap). I nailed those pieces of wood in place with my pin nailer (23 gauge) and used my router with a follower bit to cut the recess for the tweeter. You have to go in with a chisel to the corners. I did cut the hole for the tweeter ahead of time. For the depth, I used the tweeter and checked the recess with my calipers (the depth gauge part).

The one difference I saw that should be noted is that the notch for the wire pass through needs to be a lot deeper. It needs to go into the front baffle a bit.

Let me know if this doesn't make much sense and I will try to reiterate it all.

[ianjwebster]

Bordeaux build

Thank you for taking the time to post this build. I just received delivery of a Bordeaux kit from Meniscus. I went all out and got the full kit with all the upgrades. I have a couple of other projects in front of this one so it will be a month or two before I start - but I am excited. This will be the fourth set of speakers I have assembled. 1. Overnight Sensation Towers. 2. Statements II center. 3. Gr-Research X-LS Encore.

[Mikerodrig27]

Very cool! This is a great kit. The full kit was a good idea. I believe Jim recommends the CSA caps for the tweeter and mids but I anything that Meniscus suggests as an upgrade is a good idea.

I have been curious about the GR-research Encore speakers. I have watched a few videos of people talking I know they are much smaller but how did they compare to the Statement center?

Let me know if you have any questions or need pics of anything. Jim is also a great asset to this forum so I am bet he will pop in as well.

[ianjwebster]

Thank you - I am sure I will be bugging you for advice once I get started.
The X-LS Encores went into my analog setup in my home office. Regar Plane 1 TT, Monoprice hybrid 50W amp (next item to be upgraded) and the Encores. Small room, 14 feet by 12 feet. Only finished a few days ago so still breaking in. So far very impressed. I enjoyed the build; the videos on GR's website were a big help particularly with the cross overs. The sound is a million miles from the ~$100 Sony book shelfs they replaced. I do have a bit of a hum coming from the turntable that I need to look into but I am very pleased with the speakers for the price. When they have some time on them I will try them in my main system (Cambridge 851N streamer and Cambridge 851W amp) just for grins. I currently have a 25 year old set of Mission 753 in the main system (with will be replaced by the Bordeauxs.) I would not be surprised if the Encores put the Missions to shame.

Here's a picture of the cross over and the unfinished cabinet in the background, also a picture of the Statements II Center.

[Mikerodrig27]

I just fixed up (recapped, replaced dust cap & remounted crossover on an actual board) a set of Mission 737r. If they voiced anything like your Missions, the Bordeaux speakers sound richer and way more detailed. As they should based on the components, size and cabinet design.

Great deal on the GR speakers. They are supposed to be a great bang for the buck speaker.

Right now I am using the my Bordeaux speakers with a First Watt F6 clone that I built. My preamp is a little two input Korg Nutube B1 designed by Nelson Pass. I was using them with a Threshold S/500 amp, Adcom GFP-565 preamp (upgraded) before. The Firstwatt and preamp were a major upgrade in clarity and balance of sound. It is amazing the details the Bordeaux's are able to produce. My latest interest has been messing around with acoustic treatments. I wish I would have done those very early on in this hifi hobbie.

Best of luck with the build and if you are up to it, please share the results with us!

[ianjwebster]

I will be happy to share progress updates / pictures of the build once I get started.
I am interested in room treatment also. My listening room is very difficult. Its an open plan living room kitchen about 30feet x 25feet split 50/50 between living room and kitchen. So the listening area is around 15 x 25. One wall is all windows and the other side is open to the kitchen. To add insult to injury there is a vaulted ceiling and the left speaker is a bit too close to the side wall for comfort. It will be a challenge positioning the new speakers when the time comes. My surround sound amp (ARCAM AVR850) includes DIRAC room correction and I use ROON with my stereo set up so I can do some correction with those but it would be nice to apply some room treatment first - but I don;t know where to start. Do you have any suggestions for books or websites that can help educate a complete novice on room treatments?

Thank you

Ian

[Mikerodrig27]

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvfTZmvZzNmD4WzBNKhNpBKtyJcxJ4Ajl

Anthony grimani is the guy to pay attention to. I would start with some floating panels and put some panels on stands at your first reflection points in front of the windows.

I noticed that with the panels, it takes a lot less time for me to start to focus my ears on the details in the dialogue. Almost immediate vs 5 minutes or so. Your brain has to seperate the room noise from what is coming out of the front of the speaker. Typically, the sound you hear coming directly from the speaker is a lot less than the sound you hear from the room so it is important to have the best sounding room that you can.

I got a good deal on GIK absorbers used locally. They have a diy kit that you can do to save money. The fabric they sell is very nice as well.

Anthony grimani may have a site selling stuff.

The point of the Bordeaux is to create a huge spacious sound and with the panels I notice this effect even more. Right now I have panels at the 1st reflection points, back wall and i am going to put a couple of ceiling panels up. This has made the biggest difference in mod range detail yet with these bordeaux speakers.

[Mikerodrig27]

Also, if you want tk check it out, Dayton has a calibrated mic that is terrific for measuring room response. That may be a good thing to check out. For an easy test, you can clap your hands together and listen to the decay in the Room. Also listen for flutter echo. This will give you an idea of how sound will act in your room.