Horio's Wavecor Ardent Build

[Renron]

Beautiful, but cheating....
Ron

[Steve Manning]

Beautiful, but cheating....
Ron

Now Ron,

If your not cheating, your not trying ..... or was it, all's fair in love and war?

[Scottg]

..moved to Steve's thread.

[Renron]

I wish I was as precise as a CNC. I'm not. I'm jealous! I do think it's excellent that you offer this service to us. I'd wager you make about a nickel per item.
Thank you Steve!
Ron

[Steve Manning]

I wish I was as precise as a CNC. I'm not. I'm jealous! I do think it's excellent that you offer this service to us. I'd wager you make about a nickel per item.
Thank you Steve!
Ron

Thanks Ron ..... Your right about the precision one of these can offer, as well as being repeatable. Your also not far off on the nickel thing either, at least conceptually. Most folks think having one of these lets you feed it wood and out come the parts. Wrong ...... there is a lot of work involved in getting the drawings done, correctly I might add. The machine is very stupid, it goes where you tell it ..... if that's the wrong direction, you now have fire wood. Doing the drawings you also have to keep in mind how the part needs to be machined, it's a lot of planing ahead. It's been interesting though and I'm always up for a good challenge.

It certainly gives the option of being more creative in certain areas.

[Steve Manning]

Cleaned up and ready for shipping.

[flamethrower1]

Now that is how you do things now days, and I bet you cant hear the difference from something that is made any other way either.
Nice, I am envious of your shop capabilities

[Horio]

Did a little work on the speakers after the holiday. Got the holes drilled into the baffle faces using the beautiful grills Steve made as templates. Drilled the holes for the mid-range and tweeters. Did a little fine tuning of the dados using my new Veritas router plane that I picked up on Black Friday(such a cool tool), and then finally glued the baffles to the rear of the cabinets!

Next up, I'm going to start working on the bases and the crossovers. I might have them making sound in the near future.

[Steve Manning]

Some nice progress Greg ..... looking good.

[wkhanna]

your cabinets look amazing, Greg

and Steve, what a great job on the grills!!!
really great of you to help out like that!!!!

[Horio]

Epoxy has dried and now they look like real speakers! They are certainly a bit larger than my current MT speakers.

[Browncoat]

Agreed, they look great--nice work. I'm not familiar with the design: is the top deeper than the bottom? Or is that just a camera trick?

[Evil Twin]

Perspective issues with the camera

[Evil Twin]

Epoxy has dried and now they look like real speakers! They are certainly a bit larger than my current MT speakers.

Good progress!

What is your planned veneer?

[Horio]

I'm planning to paint the cabinets instead of veneer. Going to let my wife pick the color to help with the WAF.

[TEK]

Be aware that if you do not take action to prevent it, the edge between the front baffel and the sides will paragraph trough the paint.
My suggedtion is to give then some time to settle now, sand down to ensure a flat transition and then add a 4-8mm thick mdf, hdf or plywood side panel.
Many builders have also used layers of epoxy as a selant and sanding base before the base coat.
Finally prepare for paint in all the regular ways (sparkel, sanding, base coat and so on).

I’m sure there other ways as well, will be interesting to hear how you choose to progress.

[Evil Twin]

I strongly support TEKs suggestions for painting- actually, the same process is a good plan for veneering, too. I know from the founder that Avalon took similar precautions before veneering, and he recounted seeing Avalon clones from Taiwan that did not take these measures and showed problems very quickly. Paint is even more critical to this process.

[Browncoat]

Those black polished cabinets you did turned out great, so whatever your paint process is, it works.

I've done a fair amount of veneering, and although I haven't personally had telegraphing issues, I've had glue issues, and I've sanded too far on more than one occasion. I love veneer, but it can be a real heartbreaker sometimes

[Horio]

Thanks Tek and John for the advice. The plan is to wrap the cabinet in 1/8" HDF, then seal with epoxy before applying primer and paint.

I do have some small offsets (~1/32 or so) between the cabinet rear and the baffle that will want to be evened out before laminating the HDF. Can anyone recommend a filler product I can use to level these areas out before gluing the HDF?

[Renron]

Smooth body filler called EverCoat. It is a much smoother product than Bondo. I hate bondo.
Along with the issue of telegraphing the seams / end grain of the plywood of which I am guilty. The top of my Ardents show the line between the sides and the top , It doesn't bother me too much but I wish it wasn't there. I love my ardents and listen to them everyday.
Another issue that may present itself to you is the weight of the baffle covers and the # of magnets / strength of said magnets. I used 9 on each one and I'm glad I did. Can't have too many.
Better to test first than be sorry later. Adding the inside wrap of fabric will reduce the power of the magnets a surprising amount. I used N40 3/8 x 1/4.
Pair the magnets separately and mark N / S poles or stick them together and put a line of nail polish down the side and a dot on the opposing faces. This will help you install them lined up properly.
Your work is exemplary and I am enjoying watching your progress. Well done Horio.
Ron

[Scottg]

-very nice work!

You'd think I'd be drooling over the cabinets (and they are sweet), but really that pic. of the drill press hooked me: really nice. 8) (..I've got a little piece of crap that was as cheap as possible and probably was made with slave labor.) ops:

The other thing that really stood-out for me was the "bins" in the background, I spent the better part of today (Sunday) working on a wall with bin's in the garage (sorting just a lot of odds-and-end's hardware for my top (bin) row that is composed of smaller integrated units (6 of them) like your black one on the shelf above your bins - absolutely mind-numbing work.) :P

[Evil Twin]

I concur with your comments about the drill press, which appears to be a JET JDP-17 with a custom drill table.

Power tools that approach my body weight always give me concern about their mobility, but one cannot argue with their usefulness.

[Steve Manning]

You can tell the power tool fans .... not a one mentioned the router plane. :lol:

[Horio]

Smooth body filler called EverCoat. It is a much smoother product than Bondo. I hate bondo.
Along with the issue of telegraphing the seams / end grain of the plywood of which I am guilty. The top of my Ardents show the line between the sides and the top , It doesn't bother me too much but I wish it wasn't there. I love my ardents and listen to them everyday.
Another issue that may present itself to you is the weight of the baffle covers and the # of magnets / strength of said magnets. I used 9 on each one and I'm glad I did. Can't have too many.
Better to test first than be sorry later. Adding the inside wrap of fabric will reduce the power of the magnets a surprising amount. I used N40 3/8 x 1/4.
Pair the magnets separately and mark N / S poles or stick them together and put a line of nail polish down the side and a dot on the opposing faces. This will help you install them lined up properly.
Your work is exemplary and I am enjoying watching your progress. Well done Horio.
Ron

Thanks for the recommendation Ron. Is there a particular product line by EverCoat that you've had good luck with? Maybe their "Premium Lite Weight" professional filler or perhaps a resin based product like their "Rage" line? I'll just be leveling out the local high and low spots, but the wood glue for the laminating the HDF boards will be coming into contact with the filler. Just want to make sure its not going to cause any swelling or big adhesion problems.

http://www.evercoat.com/images/ePIM/original/704014-6.2011-Body-Filler-DIGITAL-brochure.pdf

As far as the magnets, I have holes for (7) locations. I'm using the same sized magnets (3/8" diameter by 1/4" thick), but I'm planning to double them up on both the baffle and grill (4 magnets per location). Good advice on doing a little testing before any finish is applied, and I'll make sure to do that.

[Horio]

I concur with your comments about the drill press, which appears to be a JET JDP-17 with a custom drill table.

Power tools that approach my body weight always give me concern about their mobility, but one cannot argue with their usefulness.

Jon, you nailed it. It is a Jet JDP-17 that I got during one of the Jet sales a year or two ago. I managed to get free shipping by ordering through the right online retailer as well. It's a great machine especially for what I paid.

The table is actually a Woodpeckers product. Came with a nice fence with flip stops and a couple of clamps that slide into the T-tracks. The baffles were so large, I had to clear the table to have enough room to work.

[Horio]

You can tell the power tool fans .... not a one mentioned the router plane. :lol:

Steve, I'm thinking the same thing. Out of all of the tools I used last week, it was the new router plane that really blew me away. Such a quick and accurate way to deepen the dados a tad without a whole bunch of setup with a power router. I've been on a bit of a hand tool buying spree as of late (chisels, hand saws, planes). Been trying to improve my woodworking skills on that front.

[Evil Twin]

Jon, you nailed it. It is a Jet JDP-17 that I got during one of the Jet sales a year or two ago. I managed to get free shipping by ordering through the right online retailer as well. It's a great machine especially for what I paid.

The table is actually a Woodpeckers product. Came with a nice fence with flip stops and a couple of clamps that slide into the T-tracks. The baffles were so large, I had to clear the table to have enough room to work.

Woodpecker makes some very useful items, in my experience.

[TEK]

Hmm, I must say - I suspect that Evil Twin has kidnapped mr. Marsh.
The dark force seems to be growing stronger lately!

[CraigJ]

Hmm, I must say - I suspect that Evil Twin has kidnapped mr. Marsh.
The dark force seems to be growing stronger lately!

I quite agree. As of recent, Evil Twin appears almost as thoughtful and kind as Jon. ops:

Beautiful speakers Horio. Thanks for continuing to keep us updated and looking forward to your first listening session.

[Scottg]

The table is actually a Woodpeckers product..

That one I actually knew (..but not the Jet). ..only 5 points for Gryffindor. ops:

[Scottg]

Hmm, I must say - I suspect that Evil Twin has kidnapped mr. Marsh.
The dark force seems to be growing stronger lately!

I'm guessing it's the result of too many projects/work..

I quite agree. As of recent, Evil Twin appears almost as thoughtful and kind as Jon. ops:

-purely coincidence. :W

[Scottg]

..it was the new router plane that really blew me away. Such a quick and accurate way to deepen the dados a tad without a whole bunch of setup with a power router.

WOW! 8O I would have thought that pushing through that bamboo ply would be extremely difficult.

[Horio]

WOW! 8O I would have thought that pushing through that bamboo ply would be extremely difficult.

With a sharp blade, it was surprisingly easy to cut through the bamboo ply. It left a nice smooth surface as well.

[Evil Twin]

Yes, the key is sharp tools made from high grade materials.

I have a Veritas flush plane from Canada that falls in that category of indispensable hand tools...

[Renron]

Horio,
Sorry I should have been more specific in my recommendations. Evercoat Polyester glazing compound #400. you'll need hardener with it. I have tried many types the this is the one I judge the others by. I refinished clawfoot bathtubs as a side job to finish carpentry, this glazing compound is fantastically smooth . Sands very well.

OT, I picked up this bin system from a hardware store that was closing. It is awesome to separate all my junk.
Ron

[Horio]

Thanks Ron. I went to EverCoat's website and found the product info:

http://www.evercoat.com/product-detail/part-number/100400/us/

The spec sheet doesn't specify it can be used with a wood substrate, but sure seems that it can stick to metal then wood shouldn't be a problem. Since it's a resin, I'd imagine it won't run into issues with absorbing moisture from the wood glue when I laminate the 1/8 inch HDF to the box.

[Renron]

That's the one, I've used it numerous times on wood and even on my Ardents (don't tell anyone) Before I put the veneer on I skimmed a coat on a plywood tear out. Zero problems. It sticks to everything, even polyethylene. Hell it sticks to porcelain. LOL. Not water soluble. Can even prime paint right on top of it.
You are making me look like an amateur! Excellent work. Congratulations, they'll be singing soon. Happy New Year.
Ron

[Horio]

Progress on the Bases

Have made some progress recently on the bases for the Wavecor Ardent's. Things are far enough along to start messing around with the crossovers.

I used the good old blue tape method for gluing together the pieces of the base. I used 1" thick hard maple which I planed down form 5/4 stock. The joints aren't too bad, but in hindsight a few swipes with a shooting board and hand plane would have tightened things up. The bases are getting painted, so I'll fill any small gaps with filler or epoxy.







I routed a 3/8" x 3/8" groove in the top of the bases to accept the 3/8" baltic birch plywood panel, and glued it together.





I also made some inserts using 1/4" MDF to make building the crossovers a bit easier. I'm planning to construct the crossover directly on the 1/4" MDF panel, and then glue the panel inside the base once it's ready. I still need to rout out another rabbet in the bottom of the bases to accept the bottom panel which will enclose the crossover.

[Horio]

Crossover Progress

Even with the ongoing quarantine, I haven't worked much on the Wavecor Ardents as I've been distracted building a new amplifier to power them. It's the AMB Beta24 design which should put out about 250 watts/channel into 6 ohms of Class AB power. Should give me a little more headroom versus of 50 watts/channel Class A amplifier I current have. I've got one channel singing, but still troubleshooting the other channel.



Today I dove into assembling the crossovers. Inside of the speaker base, I'm installing the mid-range crossover. On top of the speaker base, the high and low range crossovers will be located such that they slide into the opening in the bottom of the speaker cabinets. I'm almost done with wiring up the crossover (see photos below), and then I'll be able to glue them onto the speaker bases.

Mid-Range Crossover:



Mid-Range Crossover in Base:



Low & High Range Crossovers:

[Renron]

That's ingenious! Your powering your Amp from a plant. LOL
I know those capacitors very well (sound wise) and your going to love them. All great choices , you'll be happy.
I think half the weight of the Ardents is the Crossover. Jon's known for crossover component count overkill. But their awesome
I too went from a Pass F5 to a 250W AB amp (HoneyBadger) and it makes a HUGE difference being able to push the woofers at lower volume.
Your going to be sooo happy.
Ron

[Horio]

Plant based power is where it's at!

I am amazed how heavy the crossovers are now that I've got them assembled. I guess it's a good thing to have all at weight at the bottom so they won't tip over as easily.

[JonMarsh]

Nice looking builds on the crossover, Horio! And yes, having those puppies in the base of the speaker was a specific design choice- it sort of comes down to a matter of where the center of gravity will be and how tippy the systems might be from influences like ground tremors or unruly children!


I understand that in the new Ardent D build, which is narrower and more like the first design in 2010 (my gawd, 10 years ago!!) out runner support configurations are almost a dead certain necessity and feature.

The Obligatto caps are quite well built, and have the anti-resonance tube construction, but that means they're a bit more massive than typical parts- not what you'd want for an aircraft application I'd guess...

And BTW, your bases are very much like the first gen ones also, as well as my Wavecor Ardent build.





But some of the guys have used shallow bolt on bases, and located the crossovers internally. To each their own. That's the beauty of DIY.

[Horio]

Thanks Jon! I was definitely following your lead on building a deeper base and installing the crossover within it.

With the crossover basically done, the cabinets all glued up, I feel like I am so close to making some music! Just need to laminate the 1/8" Hardboard all around the cabinet and then I can start thinking about some finish (paint). The one thing holding up progress is the virus. The cabinets are over at my dad's place, and I won't be able to get down there to work on them until the social distancing restrictions are loosened. Hopefully I can get down there next month sometime.

[dar47]

Great work! Does your crossover include the tilted voicing circuit?

[rick844]

Curious about AMB Beta24 amp. Is it cost effective to build these compared to offerings from Emotiva and Outlaw Audio?