Another Wavecor Ardent build

[JonMarsh]

Yes... fewer distractions. :W

[BobEllis]

This is as close to actual color as photos will let me make it.

Since my sander has no dust collection I will keep the veneer over the driver holes until finished power sanding. Makes cleanup easier.

[flamethrower1]

Wow Bob, nice job, they look spectacular.

[BobEllis]

Thanks.

[Evil Twin]

These will be very interesting to see after the final finishing work is complete. But these preliminary results are most impressive...

[Steve Manning]

Very nice Bob ..... those are already looking killer.

[sdl2112]

Yes very impressive Bob...I didn't realize you could use epoxy as you have.

[Renron]

Bob,
Gorgeous, simply beautiful. I'm sure that they look even better in person. Very nice color, much darker than I would have thought with maple.

When I was cutting the veneer for the driver holes, the veneer had the tendency to split and pull out like a router does. I wasn't using a router either, sharp blade work and I still had to make dutchies.
Those sure look great Bob.
Ron

[Horio]

If you get a chance to rework the attenuation for the -02 woofers, I am ready to order crossover parts now. Haven't seen much from Horio, but he's using the newer woofers too. Playing with these in Vituix CAD I was surprised how much the attenuation interacted with the FR. Well above my comfort zone.

I've still been lurking quietly in the background. Meb's recent project has inspired me to learn a bit more about CNC. I'm contemplating on trying to CNC many of the parts for my Wavecor Ardent build.

You're speakers are turning out great Bob! Excellent work.

[BobEllis]

Yes very impressive Bob...I didn't realize you could use epoxy as you have.

You pretty much have to coat it. If the grain is at all vertical (as burl) epoxy comes right through and floods the surface. It tinted the veneer just enough that it looked like bleached spots where there was no epoxy even after sanding any surface epoxy off. There have been some pretty boats made with epoxy lamination and the surface left clear.

Thanks to all for the compliments. I chose this veneer for its mid tone coloring. It got better ratings than lighter or darker alternatives with the decorating committee.

[TEK]

This is as close to actual color as photos will let me make it.

Since my sander has no dust collection I will keep the veneer over the driver holes until finished power sanding. Makes cleanup easier.

Looking really nice Bob.
Is this after one coat of epoxy? What will you do now? Sand it down you said. And then? Several coat of epoxy? Will you have anything more than the epoxy?

[BobEllis]

Thanks. Yes, that is a coat of epoxy as thin as I could get it with a foam roller. Assuming I can get this coat of epoxy smooth enough without sanding through to the veneer I will seal with General Finishes High performance gloss. If I hit veneer it will be spot touchup. I don't want it to look plastic cased, just a deep finish. Areas are looking deep, others plastic coated. Epoxy alone has no UV protection or resistance and could start chalking if sunlight hits them. That's where the GF comes in.

[Renron]

Those really look nice Bob, what a wonderful color. Congratulations.
Me like shiny!
Ron

[BobEllis]

Thanks Ron.

A little progress today. Sanding plastic on a hot day makes lots of little balls of plastic. Have to keep moving over a wide area or they melt. What fun. Most of the first cabinet smoothed out well enough to finish, just a couple of small spots that need an epoxy touch up. Drat.

[BobEllis]

Prepped for finish and a bit of epoxy spot repair. Rain and 80%+ humidity the next couple of days will keep me from either.

At this pace, Ron will finish long before me.

[BobEllis]

Spot repairs completed, first coat of General Finishes High Performance Gloss brushed on. It levels itself quite well, although going over 220 grit sanding one coat is still satin. At 80°F and 70% humidity I should be able to get another coat on today. I plan to go with 4 coats, but will do more if needed.

Was going to spray, but it's windy and my shady spot for spraying has too much stuff coming from the trees. After Ron's experience with veneer cracking I'm not taking a chance on a sunny spot. I know, I need an easy up tent, but that means a shopping trip.

Teaser shot - almost shows how much the grain is popping.

[Steve Manning]

Spot repairs completed, first coat of General Finishes High Performance Gloss brushed on. It levels itself quite well, although going over 220 grit sanding one coat is still satin. At 80°F and 70% humidity I should be able to get another coat on today. I plan to go with 4 coats, but will do more if needed.

Was going to spray, but it's windy and my shady spot for spraying has too much stuff coming from the trees. After Ron's experience with veneer cracking I'm not taking a chance on a sunny spot. I know, I need an easy up tent, but that means a shopping trip.

Teaser shot - almost shows how much the grain is popping.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]26129[/ATTACH]

Sounds like you have some of the soupy weather up the as well Bob ..... I was doing the tent thing for a while for spraying, I still had an issue with wind and since my gun is a bleeder I had to make sure not to point it at the grass or I made a heck of a mess of things. Looking forward to some more pics.

[BobEllis]

Not quite as bad as you're getting, but it's also supposed to rain this afternoon.

I'd planned to put a decent size drop cloth down to avoid blowing stuff around, but it's now moot.

[BobEllis]

Another coat on, starting to get glossy.

The large facet is really starting to shimmer.

[sdl2112]

Looking good Bob...I was also pleasantly surprised how well the GF HP brushed on.

[JonMarsh]

The GF HP stuff is really good- IMO; brushes well, sprays well, and makes a hard clean finish with a very reasonable curing time.

One could ask why I ordered something different for my next project, but it's a very similar product.

I hope the weather starts cooperating a bit more with you, Bob.

[dar47]

Love the veneer, it's bin fun watching you and Ron egg each other on.:T

[BobEllis]

Thanks, the decorating committee loves the veneer. I've been told not to hide it with grills. I have magnets underneath in case she changes her mind.

Ron and I have said privately that it's too bad we are on opposite sides of the country, we'd be doing a lot of things together if we lived closer. We'd probably have finished these months ago if we'd had to worry about the other stopping by and seeing no progress.

Progress was halted yesterday by a firehose kind of storm. It was very small and targeted, while I was getting drowned, the trees all around were in sun. Glad I pulled the speakers in before the rain arrived, rain was blowing through the screens well onto the porch. It's a bit on the cool side this morning, but will warm up. The third coat goes on after coffee, I should get the fourth after a bike ride and some errands.

[BobEllis]

Two lessons learned with coat 3. There is a difference in the results you get with different foam brushes. Cheap ones tend to make more bubbles. When GF says don't overbrush, they mean it. Spread it out and leave it alone or you'll have brush marks.

[Renron]

The Chatoyance is really astounding with the freak maple. Simply beautiful. You will be ready for that glamour shot soon.
I was planning on the first coat of Varnish today, but I promised one of my son's that I would build his subwoofer today. Feels like I'm throwing the "race".
Dar47, don't tell Bob, but I think he's going to finish before me.
Jon, I'll bite, what different product DID you order? Sometimes I don't mind being manipulated.
Ron

[Steve Manning]

The Chatoyance is really astounding with the freak maple. Simply beautiful. You will be ready for that glamour shot soon.
I was planning on the first coat of Varnish today, but I promised one of my son's that I would build his subwoofer today. Feels like I'm throwing the "race".
Dar47, don't tell Bob, but I think he's going to finish before me.
Jon, I'll bite, what different product DID you order? Sometimes I don't mind being manipulated.
Ron

And the hook is set ....... :B

[BobEllis]

Four coats on. Nice finish depth but I missed a couple spots with the last one. There is at least enough in the can for one more coat if not two. I have friends visiting for a few days so I'll give a little time for Ron to catch up. I guess I'm going to need artificial light to ensure no more dry spots. The stuff is so shiny even sanded with 400 grit.

[JonMarsh]

It's an experiment, but sometimes I have to mess with you guys a little...

https://www.targetcoatings.com/product/emtech-superclear-9000-wb-interior-polyurethane/

Been doing a lot of finishing research. This might work out really nice, or I may go down in flames, like a Tie Fighter with the motivator assembly shot up and a stabilizer vane blown off...

• 1st Layer- my "classic" West Systems 105, using 206 hardener
• 2nd Layer- Seahawk brushable black gel coat, applied with foam roller
• 3rd layer - Target Coatings Emtech 9000 Interior water based Poly, sprayed
• 4th layer - No 4th layer, just a lot of fine sanding and polishing after it's had a week or so to harden up... got a new Mirka Deros to do the detail work- blame Steve for that, I didn't even know Mirka made a tool like that (just been a fan of Abranet and Abralon disks forever) until Steve told me about it- (remember, I'm just the wires and sparks guy, but I do have a credit card, and willing to use it on occasion when it seems justified...)

http://www.bottompaintstore.com/fiberglass-and-gel-coat-repair-gelcoat-c-13581_13586.html/Brushable-Gelcoat-quart

[Renron]

Bob, thanks for some down-time, I'll try to catch up!

Steve, Your a trouble maker........... I thought maybe you and Jon were working on maybe marketing a finish.... What a setup!

Jon,
I've sprayed gallons of the old Target em6000 when it was called Oxford Ultima. I used the gloss and knocked the sheen down with technique when a lower gloss was the goal. It "burns in" to the previous coat so if you sand thru there are no witness lines.
Thin it out up to 10% with water and add some retarder to help flow out. This what I used and it worked great. It is really thin, you may need more than one coat to cover. You can put up to 5 coats a day on, as it dries really fast thou.
Ron

[Steve Manning]

Bob, thanks for some down-time, I'll try to catch up!

Steve, Your a trouble maker........... I thought maybe you and Jon were working on maybe marketing a finish.... What a setup!

Jon,
I've sprayed gallons of the old Target em6000 when it was called Oxford Ultima. I used the gloss and knocked the sheen down with technique when a lower gloss was the goal. It "burns in" to the previous coat so if you sand thru there are no witness lines.
Thin it out up to 10% with water and add some retarder to help flow out. This what I used and it worked great. It is really thin, you may need more than one coat to cover. You can put up to 5 coats a day on, as it dries really fast thou.
Ron

I've been framed ...... 8O

Nope just trying to find something the will look nice and can be handled by us finishing rookies.

I was wondering about single coat of the finish myself.

[JonMarsh]

I've been framed ...... 8O

Nope just trying to find something the will look nice and can be handled by us finishing rookies.

I was wondering about single coat of the finish myself.

I was planning on 6-8 light coats- taking all day, pretty much. I can't give away all my secrets at once! The gelcoat may well wind up being two coats- I've got enough on order. Depends on how thick it stays going on, and what happens after sanding the first coat.

[BobEllis]

Decided to remove the veneer from the driver openings before applying the last coat(s). Very glad that I left the tape over the openings when applying the veneer - that meant the epoxy squeeze out was only stuck to part of the side of the hole and not the bottom. That made it much easier to clean out.

Got one woofer opening cleaned up, and we are at 92°. Even with a towel on the speaker, I'm worried about dripping on partially cured finish. GF says not to get it wet for a week and full hardness takes 3 weeks. Time to head to the beach, and work on it again later in the day.

[JonMarsh]

Head to the beach...

Decided to remove the veneer from the driver openings before applying the last coat(s). Very glad that I left the tape over the openings when applying the veneer - that meant the epoxy squeeze out was only stuck to part of the side of the hole and not the bottom. That made it much easier to clean out.

Got one woofer opening cleaned up, and we are at 92°. Even with a towel on the speaker, I'm worried about dripping on partially cured finish. GF says not to get it wet for a week and full hardness takes 3 weeks. Time to head to the beach, and work on it again later in the day.

That sounds like a good plan... :B

[BobEllis]

In today's issue of the bonehead chronicles, we discover the difference between a hand and a mallet.

Removing epoxy squeeze out from the driver recesses, I discovered that the part that was on top of the blue tape usually came off with just pressure on a chisel. Sometimes it needed a tap with the heel of my hand to go. We've all done that, right? The parts where the epoxy was bonded to both the side and bottom of the hole were a bit more difficult. A combination of being tired from yesterday's bike tour of northern NY and Vermont and wanting to get done led me to just hitting the chisel harder with my hand until it became obvious that I needed a mallet to crack through the hardened epoxy. That's when I noticed that my hand really hurt. Some bruising and stiffness making typing difficult several hours later. Use the right tool for the job.

[JonMarsh]

A combination of being tired from yesterday's bike tour of northern NY and Vermont and wanting to get done led me to just hitting the chisel harder with my hand until it became obvious that I needed a mallet to crack through the hardened epoxy. That's when I noticed that my hand really hurt. Some bruising and stiffness making typing difficult several hours later. Use the right tool for the job.

So, so true. With fatigue comes mistakes, I find especially so as I get older. (Cough, "more mature", cough) (slightly scratchy throat from not wearing particulate mask while sanding yesterday)

So I do the mission critical stuff in the morning, and drudge work in the afternoon if I'm doing an all day effort. Saves me some grief...

[Renron]

There is a bundle of nerve ganglia in the heel of your palm, easy to bruise and slow to heal. I think anyone who's worked with wood had done this to themselves.
You've beat yourself up enough already over this, you can be done. Ice it by putting ice in a glass of your favorite adult beverage and take a few days break.
Ron

[BobEllis]

Or continue to bang on it riding my bike. A few day's rest coming next week. Going to visit Dad for a bit while the finish cures.

[BobEllis]

Final coat of finish on. Almost doesn't need buffing. It will get some time to harden while I'm out of town. I need to build proper bases and assemble the crossovers once I have the adjustments for the -02 woofers. ET has been keeping Jon busy on black projects lately. I've got a mini-DSP solution handy in the meantime.

Teaser shots, of course the forum decided I wanted to present them in landscape format. I even tried rotating them before uploading to no avail. Halogen shop light from the side, in case it wasn't obvious.



Actual color is about halfway between the two colors seen here.

[sdl2112]

Looks great Bob...Is that 5 coats total? If you plan to buff it out I would sure like to know your process.

[BobEllis]

Thanks. Just the usual buffing process. That horrible feeling sanding a nice glossy finish with 400 grit, then working up through 600, 800, 1,000 and 1,500. At 1,500 grit it should be a nice satin finish. From there, I'll decide whether to buff with a polishing compound. I have buffing wheels and a compound stick somewhere in the garage. If I end up using them I'll post what they are, I just don't remember. I did a set of black Focal Mini-Utopia lookalikes that came out looking like they had been clear coated and polished with this routine.

[Steve Manning]

Very nice Bob ...... Having never gone through the buffing process for a nice gloss finish I had no idea one would start out at 400 grit. I had run across this video which I believe ET is going to try out on the "Black" project. Yep it's one big add, but the concept is there at least.

[benthe8track]

Love em!

I'm sure this has been discussed but have you guys found much difference between the -02 woofers and the older models?

[BobEllis]

Ben, the frequency response and impedance curves are essentially identical, but the -02 sensitivity is 2 dB lower than the -01. We'd hoped that the changes would be as simple as changing the tweeter and midrange padding, but there's some interaction with the padding resistors and the overall response. My attempts to tweak it came out much less flat than the original.

Steve, I suppose I could start at 600, since I've been doing 400 grit between coats as GF suggested. Things I forgot to mention above are rinse the sandpaper and check for clogging often and change sandpaper as soon as you see any and you must be obsessively fastidious about cleaning between grits. Speaker surface, water dish, sanding block. Bringing a coarser grit to the party just makes it likely to get scratches you can't polish out. There are long threads on high gloss polishing here and other places, but it boils down to working slowly and cleaning as you go to finer grits.

[BobEllis]

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[meb46]

Bob - One small piece of advice I have on this is Abranet Sanding Disks by Mirka... this sandpaper for orbital sanders is the best for rubbing out a finish. The naming convention on grit is slightly different that normal, but its easy to work out. They last a lot longer than traditional dry or wet/dry paper, and can be washed out. I used them on my MIC speakers both in Lacquer Finished Maple Veneer, and the final White Matte Lacquer. The product is fantastic!