Kleos - Dipole Line Array

[Johnloudb]

Thanks Hank, was just about to post some drawings of a support structure. Will get busy and do that now. I've been looking for a local place that does CNC and works with wood. Most are just metal shops unfortunately. The paint is done on one baffle, so while I'm trying figure out the support structure stuff I'll be veneering the other one and start with the paint.

Motivation appreciated!

[Johnloudb]

Okay, first is a picture of the sanded versus unsanded finish. This was before the last two coats which I finished two days ago. So, I haven't sanded yet. I am curious if anyone has tried this kind of look. It looks a bit scratchy with the 415 grit. I also tried a 600 grit which looked kind of smudgy and spotty. Tried both 415 then 600, and it looked a bit too washed out.

Anyway, once I get the poly on I hope it looks perfect. Still looks better that just plain brown IMO.



I like, and my dad like, the sanded (weathered look) and it looks better than the picture might indicate.

Here is what I propose for the support structures. They will be 1-1/2" baltic birch ply. I like the bigger supports, and they will be mounted to the aluminum rails (not shown) on each side of the woofers and the base. Both picts are 1/16 scale.



The rectangle in this pict is just a 2X4" board for lateral support.

[Hank]

John, I also like the "bigger" one. If it's going to be unveneered wood, do a few coats of poly on all surfaces to keep out moisture ingress/egress. Can't wait to see the final and moreover, read your sonic impresssions.

[Johnloudb]

I found a place that can do the CNC work, now looking for CAD software that outputs .xdf files. I found this CAD that is compatible with my mac.

http://www.qcad.org/qcad_downloads.html

I may try it out, and if I like it ... pay the 29 euros, small price for CAD software.

Any other suggestions out there??? I can do windows too, but prefer mac.

Can't wait to see the final and moreover, read your sonic impresssions.

I have great hopes for the sound. It's got to beat our current speakers, and I've got them sounding really good now. Could be jumping off the Golden Gate or maybe seeing if I can find the bottom of the Great Salt Lake if this doesn't work out.

[Hank]

Think a tad more positively, John. I think you're going to eventually love 'em.

[Johnloudb]

Okay, I'll try Hank. The good news is my dad is now talking about possibly putting his speaker system out in the garage for a separate system he can listen to when my speakers are finished. So, I think he realizes he can't ask me to throw them out if he doesn't like'em. It also shows the amount of confidence my dad has in my abilities, ha ha.

Okay, I found some 2D CAD software the looks like it will work well for my drawing - QCAD. It will save in .xdf format, and I'm assuming that the CNC shop can use 2D file since this is a 2 dimensional cut. I called the shop yesterday, but he is out of town till the 15th.

I finished drilling the mounting holes in the aluminum. I am going to start with veneering my other speaker baffle today.

[Hank]

Atta boy! Your Dad will be green with envy when he hears the finished product :B How does the CNC shop quote by the hour or by the job?

[Johnloudb]

I suspect by the hour, not sure. Got to get my CAD drawing done and see what he wants for it. It should be a fairly simple job I think so I'm hoping for a low price.

Still learning the CAD software. It seems amazing to me that software designers can take something that should be so simple and make it really complicated. What ever happened to Mac Paint?

[Johnloudb]

I downloaded Google Sketchup for the mac today. Didn't know they had a mac version. Anyway, I got the support drawn up in Sketchup, and exported an AutoCAD file that the CNC shop can use. Sketchup is super easy to use compared to the other crappy software I tried.



That is one half of one support board, 3/4" thick ... will be laminating two together for each support.

[Hank]

Cool. It's tough to find regular plywood that will yield pieces that large without warp - you may need to use Baltic birch - or MDF, which would be easy to veneer.

[Johnloudb]

I was looking at the drawing above and realized there was something wrong, and I found that the midpoint of the brace was 4" instead of 6" so I had to fix it. Just sent this 3D file to the CNC shop. Thanks for the tip Hank, didn't know that. I hadn't planned on using regular ply though. They said the can get 3/4" baltic birch ply.

[Johnloudb]

Trimming veneer is fun ... can you hear my sarcasm?

[Hank]

Trimming veneer is fun

:laughat:
Ahh, young grasshopper learns that time and patience result in beautiful veneer work.


Off topic: I clicked on your website and read your story. Congrats on overcoming and also doing the research and making it available to other victims. :T

[Johnloudb]

:laughat:
Ahh, young grasshopper learns that time and patience result in beautiful veneer work.


Off topic: I clicked on your website and read your story. Congrats on overcoming and also doing the research and making it available to other victims. :T

Off topic: Thanks. I'm making good progress, but I'm still working at this and will be for some time. Hyperacusis can be a very challenging condition, but is very treatable. In fact, Dr. Jastreboff now says it can be treated in 6-8 weeks and if it can't it's not hyperacusis, and it's something else causing the sensitivity, like phonophobia, lyme disease, etc. Hyperacusis is just sensitivity.

I of course had phonophobia, and most people with hyperacusis also have some degree of phonophobia, which can also cause decreased sound tolerance.

[Johnloudb]

Update: Wood is supposed to be cut by sometime next week. Then it's work, work, work ....

[Hank]

Oh, John?

[Johnloudb]

Oh, John?

Everything has gone to h-ll. No wood yet-still waiting, but finishing up the other baffle.
No internet till Sunday. Typing from cell phone

[Johnloudb]

Okay... I'm back and ready to finish this speaker this fall, if all goes well.

Got wood!!! Got internet!!! Will have some picts of the wood supports soon.

[Hank]

John, did you get a firm quote from your CNC supplier (hourly or by project)?

[Johnloudb]

He added up the time it would take to set it up, and the work. He quoted me $192.00 for the whole project, that includes the base board supports and 8 baffle support boards. A good price I think.

I've been cleaning the aluminum and using a 1/4" round over on the supports. will post some picts tomorrow - they look great.

[Johnloudb]

Here are the supports boards all round over routed. Still have to route out the space where they will connect to the aluminum angle.

Have started laminating the boards that will support the base as well.

[Hank]

Yep, probably not a bad price for CNC router shop. Well, you're making progress!

[Johnloudb]

I suppose I need to post ... it's been awhile. I've been working on this, mostly boring stuff like drilling holes laminating the support boards together,flush triming, scraping away residual contact cement on the baffle, and putting linseed oil one of the front baffles (very pretty). Will post some picts soon. It's been in the high 50's and 60' but getting colder Tuesday, and so I'm getting as much as I can done.

Hope to have them put together, but not completely finished soon. Will have to complete the finish in the spring.

[Johnloudb]

Okay, here's some picts of the project to this point.



I used Hurricane nuts to anchor the Reports machine screws. Worked good.



I used a fender washer on the other side. This clamped the wood against the aluminum angle really tight and it won't budge even without glue when tightened down.

[Johnloudb]

Here's the rest of the picts.

This is really solid as verified by a knuckle tap. It's heavy too and I could not lift it off the saw horses - I'm not buff, but weak from inactivity. It's long story which has to do with my phonophobia and global hypersensitivity. Moving forward though.





Here's the finish.


I will attach the base with it on the horses and get some help lifting this thing. Unfortunately for me, this will be one heavy speaker.

[Hank]

Looking good, John! Hang in there - the finish line is in sight. Any more thoughts on crossovers/amps?

[Johnloudb]

We have all the amps. They are three Boulder 250AE amps rated at 75 watts per channel into 8 and 150 watts into 4 ohms.

The crossover will be a Behringer DCX, just until we get the crossover points and slopes figured out. Then I'll build the discrete JFET crossover.

Snowing tomorrow and getting colder out. But I need to get the base screwed on today, to insure everything will fit together alright, and then when it warms up next week I have to unscrew it and put the silicone glue in there for strength and permanence.

[koldby]

Bump!!

What is going on here.
Did the story just end like this????
I wan't to hear what the end result sounded like...

[Hank]

koldby, they're not finished yet.

[Johnloudb]

Okay, here's another update. November has been a bad month for speaker building - woman friends, who needs 'em.







So, this one is done, at least until spring when I can finish putting on veneer, and put a finish on the rest of it.

Got to put the supports and base on the other baffle now.

[JonMarsh]

Okay, here's another update. November has been a bad month for speaker building - woman friends, who needs 'em.


So, this one is done, at least until spring when I can finish putting on veneer, and put a finish on the rest of it.

Got to put the supports and base on the other baffle now.

Until SPRING!?!?? Alas, that sounds all to familiar...

Glad to see you're still making progress. :T

[Johnloudb]

Until SPRING!?!??

Hi Jon,

Well, I hope to have them put together and playing before then, so I would have to pull out the drivers and then finish them in the spring.

Got to get the other one together. And also need to clean up and put new carpet down in our listen room which has become a disaster area - thanks to Dad - with good sounds, at least.

[Hank]

John, is it so cold there that you can't work in your garage until Spring?
Or do you have too many house projects backlogged? Anyway, hang in there and let us know your listening impressions when you get the other one assembled.

[Johnloudb]

Hi Hank,
Yes, it is cold out and our garage is full of boxed up stuff (junk). I'm working on the other speaker though. Put linseed oil on the baffle (a while back) and drilled holes in the aluminum. Need to attach the aluminum to the baffle next. Too cold for the silicone to cure outside (it's below 40F), so will have to bring the baffle indoors after I put the glue and screws in to finish drying. Then I can attach the supports and base, and bring in to let the silicone dry. Then I can use wood glue, and a few screws to put on the base boards.

Each speaker will have 6 Dayton adjustable speaker cones on the bottom and they look real nice on the first one. I'm real happy with how dead the baffle is. Will be even more dead when all the drivers are installed.

Of course, I will give listening impressions. First, got to overhaul our listening room: move stuff out, carpet, RPG diffusors behind speakers, ....

Then the crossover work begins.

[Johnloudb]

Here is my second speaker coming together. I'm taking it indoors to glue on the base boards.



The back.



Close up of the support boards.



The journey continues .... :conveyer:

[JonMarsh]

Great craftsmanship and painstaking work John! Glad to see you making progress! :T

Hank is going to be so happy.... :B

[Johnloudb]

Great craftsmanship and painstaking work John! Glad to see you making progress! :T

Thanks!

Hank is going to be so happy.... :B

Yeah, I know.

[Hank]

Yes, pleased as punch. Best looking work on OB supports I've seen!
Now slap in the drivers and crank it...

[Johnloudb]

Oh, no, Hank, I just can't slap in the drivers! They need to put in very carefully with each screw incrementally torqued, in just the right order. Could take weeks. :P

But here is a little teaser:



Next up comes house cleaning. My dad doesn't mind messing up a room, but when I try to clean it up ... "Stop that, It's messing up the acoustics!. Oh, now the sound just isn't right anymore ... I'll never get it back."

I'm slowly moving out stuff, so he won't notice. Then I got to get some help from my cousin and son to move all the equipment, CD/record cabinets, TV, TV/equipment stand, etc. Then put carpet down.

Got to do it when my dad isn't around and all in one day. Then ... "Surprise dad!!!" Ha, Ha, ...

John

[Johnloudb]

Best looking work on OB supports I've seen!

Thanks!

[Johnloudb]

Got to give myself a bump here. Speaker cabinets are done, room cleaning/rearranging is in progress. A touchy situation, but working it out.

[cjd]

If you have tips for sneaking new stuff in, let me know... if I ever get my dipoles done they're going to be... kinda big. Which is fine, except the only place they could even pretend to go (far from optimal for dipoles) is where my current big speakers are...

Actually, they won't fit there either, so I'll have to wait till we find a new place. Which WILL have a workshop/studio for me. And a butler's pantry.

[Johnloudb]

If you have tips for sneaking new stuff in, let me know... if I ever get my dipoles done they're going to be... kinda big. Which is fine, except the only place they could even pretend to go (far from optimal for dipoles) is where my current big speakers are...

Actually, they won't fit there either, so I'll have to wait till we find a new place. Which WILL have a workshop/studio for me. And a butler's pantry.

Keep it stealth as long as you can ... then move it in when no one is looking.
Don't know if that will work with your wife though.

My dad is pretty attached to his system, so he looks at any change with supreme skepticism.

Look forward to seeing your dipoles someday.

[Hank]

I'm at CES and just doing a quick check on John, then off to a biz dinner. IF you boys fantasize "sneaking" monster speakers into the decor environs of a female, send all of us some of that Kool-Aid. :-)

[Johnloudb]

Sounds like your having fun in Las Vegas Hank.