The birth of my db616TLs....X-overs now boxed

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  • Anton
    Member
    • Oct 2004
    • 75

    The birth of my db616TLs....X-overs now boxed

    My first real pair of DIY speakers had to be TLs and had to be floor standers. So I choose Dan Browns dB616TL. Design specs can be found at Dan’s website https://web.archive.org/web/20070104...2/db616tl2.htm. It’s simple construction and crossover was a good learning experience and a fun pair of speakers to build.

    I started by converting all of Dan’s original plans to metric so I could have all the necessary parts cut using CNC. I mocked up all the panels (bar one side), everything was spot-on.

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    General construction followed. Due to my lack of clamps I decided to glue and screw all panels together. I found it easy to overlay like panels and pilot hole both at the same time.

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    After some screwing and gluing I had most of the panels in place.

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    Now some people looking at this pic will think “there’s nothing wrong with that”. But, I didn’t angle the internal divider. I quickly contacted Dan and he said that I can compensate for my mistake by filling the first half of the line densely. Thank goodness: Measure twice cut once…where was I for that lesson.
    Anyway Being “down under” I though that Parts Express would take awhile, how wrong was I. 4 days for all the parts to arrive, I was very impressed. The AU$ to US$ isn’t that bad at the moment so the purchase didn’t hurt too much. This design utilizes PE own DC160S-8 6 ½’ Classic shielded woofers and DC28FS-8 1 1/8” shielded silk dome tweeter.

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    Crossover construction time! I’m going to have the crossovers external so I constructed them loose for mounting in aluminum enclosures later. I tried my best to wrap the conductors of components around each other for good solid connections.

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    Tweeter x-over.

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    Woofer x-over

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    After getting my hands on some scrap Dacron from work I started exploring the stuffing of the line. I used 80oz Dacron throughout. Sandwiching 5 layers together within the first half and folding a long strip on the back end of the line was my starting point.

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    I also wrangled some sound deadening material for behind the drivers. It uses 2 foam layers on either side of a lead/bitumen sheet (will appear later).

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    I flush mounted the drivers next.

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    At this point I had the crossovers fully constructed and was ready for a free air test. So I hooked everything up to my trusty NAD C320.
    Worked beautifully.

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    I glued and stapled the sound deadening in behind the drivers and the adjacent panels.

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    Dan did mention in the construction notes about the top reflector needing to be cut down. I had to remove about 20mm from the reflector to fit in behind the woofer with the sound deadening in place.

    Internal wiring and terminal cup was up next. I choose Supra Rondo 2 for all internal wiring.

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    I filled the line and added some fill behind the drivers

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    I finished off by fixing the side panel and went straight into hooking up the x-overs and having a listen.

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    I can honestly say these are the fantastic speakers. I very happy with the SQ. I don’t think I’ll need to add or remove any stuffing to the line, The response from the rear port is all low bass. The treble is a tad bright, but I suspect this will round off with time. The bass response is full and weighty in my small listening room. The WAF meter even registered a, “they sound excellent”, so I must have done something right. The first tracks put through were Brahms Symphony No.4 Allegro Non Troppo, Norah Jones Come Away With Me and Massive Attack Tear Drop.
    I’ve found them power hungry, from memory the C320 is only rated to 40W RMS. Might need to get a 372 or add a 272 power amp to the mix. A little more drive and power never hurt.
    I’ll finish them off with some American Walnut veneer soon (the next learning experience). Any new DIYers looking for a rewarding first project, this is a good one.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by theSven; 28 May 2023, 11:34 Sunday. Reason: Update image location
    Canadian heart, Aussie home!
  • JonMarsh
    Mad Max Moderator
    • Aug 2000
    • 15297

    #2
    If the treble doesn't "round off" with time, and you've double checked your construction, you might consider either adjusting the tweeter Lpad (raise series resistor slightly, lower shunt value, you can use an online Lpad calculator or the table he provides)- obviously, if you can even get an inexpensive basic mic like the Behrginger ECM8000, this will be possible to do with more precision.

    Did you consider damping the driver frames as shown on his site and construction article you linked? There might be better materials to use than rope caulk, which may dry out with time, but the concept is sound, especially for stamped frame drivers working up into the presence region.

    Looks like you did a nice job of the construction and had some fun, too! :T
    the AudioWorx
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    Comment

    • dawg1161
      Senior Member
      • May 2006
      • 238

      #3
      Awesome build.....Great thread for all.

      Comment

      • Anton
        Member
        • Oct 2004
        • 75

        #4
        I’ve never really considered doing quantified measurements of a system before…I’ll do some investigating based on the references posted by others within the DIY forum. I already have the freeware version of Speaker Workshop. $99 for the mic and I'll be able to play.
        As for the dampening of the frames, I haven’t seen a product that will harden as you suggest Jon. I haven’t even seen rope caulk at my local hardware store at all. Maybe due to the temperate environment in Brisbane, unlike Toronto where I grew up.
        I’m considering putting a block behind the woofers to sink them to the cabinet (between the woofer back plate and the middle divider). Dan mentions this on his design site also.

        I’m having some metal outriggers priced to mount the cabinets on and widen the stance so they’re not so tippy. 5mm polished stainless steel should suffice. Depending on the quote I should get them pretty soon.
        Canadian heart, Aussie home!

        Comment

        • ThomasW
          Moderator Emeritus
          • Aug 2000
          • 10933

          #5
          Nice job with the build.... :T

          Having built more than a few TL's in the day, it looks to me like the line is overdamped...

          IB subwoofer FAQ page


          "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

          Comment

          • JonP
            Senior Member
            • Apr 2006
            • 692

            #6
            Originally posted by Anton

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            I can honestly say these are the fantastic speakers. I very happy with the SQ. I don’t think I’ll need to add or remove any stuffing to the line, The response from the rear port is all low bass. The treble is a tad bright, but I suspect this will round off with time. The bass response is full and weighty in my small listening room. The WAF meter even registered a, “they sound excellent”, so I must have done something right. The first tracks put through were Brahms Symphony No.4 Allegro Non Troppo, Norah Jones Come Away With Me and Massive Attack Tear Drop.


            Looks like they're Cat Approved... and that's usually a meaningful vote of confidence.

            We occasionally find one of ours sitting in the stereo focus.. ears at attention...
            Last edited by theSven; 28 May 2023, 11:35 Sunday. Reason: Update quote

            Comment

            • Anton
              Member
              • Oct 2004
              • 75

              #7
              Below are the steps I took to mount the x-overs in their enclosures:

              I picked up some ABS enclosures and binding posts from my local electronics store (Jaycar).

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              The inside of the enclosure had small up-stands for mounting on the inside, so I just used the router to trim back.

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              I’m using granite as the substrate for mounting the x-over components to. I used epoxy to adhere all the parts to the granite. I decided to use stone to give the enclosure some weight since on their own the cross over components and the enclosure had no real substance.

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              Located the holes for the binding post on the ABS enclosures.

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              I soldered fly leads to all the positive ins and outs, then used epoxy to secure the stone inside the enclosures.

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              Binding posts added and all the fly leads connected up.

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              Both done…looking pretty good

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              All hooked up

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              I removed the dampening in the back end of the line based on Thomas' comment on over dampening of the line. The bass has become deeper as a result...i appreciate the comment Thomas thanks. I'm slowly learning that speaker building is alchemy not chemistry. Trial and error comes with the territory.

              I'm still waiting on a price to make outriggers so I can get the speakers on spikes. I think it'll be awhile before I veneer them up...time and money.

              Tom (the cat) is happy...something else to challenge his jumping ability. I think he enjoys the sweet tunes as well.
              Last edited by theSven; 28 May 2023, 11:40 Sunday. Reason: Update image location
              Canadian heart, Aussie home!

              Comment

              • Nathan P
                Senior Member
                • Mar 2006
                • 226

                #8
                Looking great! I'm wondering why you did the crossovers external? Is it so you can make modifications to it more easily or?

                Comment

                • J-Dub
                  Senior Member
                  • Jan 2006
                  • 165

                  #9
                  Fantastic TL's!
                  Im in the process of building some small folded tl's for my girlfriends computer. new design and very inexpensive! If they work out I will let everyone know.

                  Great job and keep up the good work!
                  Be sure to give us some response graphs!
                  "The most successful people in this world have also failed the most"

                  Comment

                  • Nathan P
                    Senior Member
                    • Mar 2006
                    • 226

                    #10
                    Anyone got a link to info about transmission line speakers? how is it different than a ported enclosure? It seems almost like a giant slot port.

                    Comment

                    • Anton
                      Member
                      • Oct 2004
                      • 75

                      #11
                      I guess I was romanced by the Living Voice Auditorium Avatar OBX-R, with the external x-over. I like the idea of removing the x-over from the vibration of the cabinet. It might be a gimmick but I think the idea is sound.

                      Be sure to give us some response graphs!
                      I'm going to get a Behrginger ECM8000 (as Jon suggested) soon, so curves using Speaker Workshop will come soon.

                      Can't wait to see those TL's Dub. I think a folded line will be my next project.
                      Canadian heart, Aussie home!

                      Comment

                      • JonP
                        Senior Member
                        • Apr 2006
                        • 692

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Nathan P
                        Anyone got a link to info about transmission line speakers? how is it different than a ported enclosure? It seems almost like a giant slot port.
                        Transmission lines are their own, different world... only fairly recently coming into science from a Black Art....

                        Information on Transmission Line Design for DIY and other audio related information including filter design and bafflestep information


                        and for some math, design info, and the Mathcad spread sheets to do it:

                        Derivation and Correlation of a General Acoustic Model for a Fiber Filled Transmission Line Loudspeaker.
                        Last edited by theSven; 28 May 2023, 11:43 Sunday. Reason: Update urls

                        Comment

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