What would you do??

[cmr15]

Well, I finally got a chance to listen to some rotel products today and was very impressed. I've got approximately $2000 to spend on amplification/processing for my HT set up and I currently have a marantz sr7000 (5.1 receiver). I listen to about 60/40% movies/music.

I listened to the 1056 receiver, the 1067 receiver, and a rotel pre/pro connected to a 1095 5x200 amp. They were paired with either b&w 705's or Dynaudio 52se's. As might be expected, the 1095 seemed much better with 2 channel music. BTW, really loved the dynaudio's and will probably go for them. I love the 805's but they are too expensive for me for now.

Anyhow, these are my options:

#1. get 1056 and use either 1070 or 1080 for 2 channel fronts (~$2000-2300)

#2. get 1056 and pair it with 1075 (~$2300)

#3. get a 1067 (~$2200)

#4 use my Marantz as a pre/pro, get a 1095, and buy a great pre/pro in a couple of years when I can afford it (~$2000 now, plus more in 2 years).

#5 stop obsessing, buy something, and get on with my life!!!

I'm leaning towards #1 and #4. However, do I really need 5 channels of 200w for 5.1 (as in the 1095)? Or do you think the 75w of the 1056 would be good enough to power my center and surrounds, while using the 1070 or 1080 for the fronts? Lastly, would I perceive a mismatch if I had a 1080 for the fronts and used the 75w of the 1056 for the other speakers? Btw, my wife votes for #5 :roll:

Thanks for your opinions 8)

[Andrew Pratt]

Normally i'd say go for the 1080 plus the 1056 but really given your slight preference for HT and the fact you're looking to get Dyn's which are typically very power hungry i'd say get the 1075 amp instead. You can always add the 1080 later on if you feel you need more power up front (likely if you want to get the most out of tower Dyn's).

[Jason R]

Hi There,

Have you considered a dedicated processor instead of an integrated if you are going to use seperate amplification you would not need the amplification in the processor, perhaps a 1068 partnered with a 1075 for now and then the 1080 for the front channels later on, using the extra 2 channels now available on the 1075 for rear surrounds. I use a 1080 for my surrounds and a, i think, 976 (75w X 2) for the surround backs, both B & W 303's and the 976 works just fine for rear effect. The only reason i would change to the 1095 would be and this might sound silly but would be to save space as currently the 4 amplifiers plus processor and ancillaries do take up alot of space.

BTW up till recently i was using the 1080 for the front channels with my 704's and it had more than ample power. beautiful for music but even better for home theatre, it only really comes alive above half volume.

New to the forum so i hope i am not putting my foot in my mouth straight off the cuff.

[cmr15]

Jason,

I would consider the 1068 plus a 1075 but it's out of my range, given that I'm replacing all my speakers. I think combined they would be about $2700 list.

Btw, I'm probably going to use dyn 52se's for the fronts, dyn 122c for the center, b&w in ceilings for rears and b&w 700 sub.

What do you guys think about option #4: a 1095 paired with my marantz as a pre/pro... then the marantz will be replaced when I can affortd a rotel 1068 or B&K ref 50?

Craig

[Drew_W]

You can get better bang for the buck sub wise than a B&W.

But back to your question...if you buy all this from one dealer, you should walk out with at least a 20% discount, unless your Rotel/Dynaudio dealer has a geographic monopoly (i.e. no competition in surrounding area). That may open the door to more choices.

[Bing Fung]

The 1095 option with the Marantz is not too bad an idea. It nets you more long term investment with an amp you'll be able to use for some time.... That said, 200w for surround is overkill, but also why not? :T

I don't know much about your marantz, but if it will decode everything you need now, and has all the features you need then stick with it and get the 1095. However if you need a new processor then you'll have to forget about the 1095 as it eats into your budget too much.

THe 1056 and the 1080 is a nice option, for you can always use the 1080 later on.

[cmr15]

Bing,

Thanks for the input. I do agree that 200w for my surrounds is a bit much :E

But do you think that if I got the 1056 with a 1080 that there would be any noticable difference between the fronts (200w) and my center (getting only 75w)? That is to say, would there be some sort of sonic mismatch when watching movies in 5.1? BTW, 5.1 is all that I need and I could therefore continue to use my marantz... frankly though, I'd love to upgrade it ops:

Also, do think that the 1075 would suffice for great surround and 2 channel, or would it really not have the control of a Rotel 200w amp? If the 1075 were powerfull enough, I could get the 1056/1075 combo for my available funds for about the same price as the 1056/1080.

Craig

[Bing Fung]

It may depend on your speakers and how efficeint they are. I think most centre speakers are mismacthed at best unless you have identical speakers for the centre and mains. I think you could adjust the levels with in your processor so that it would not be so mismatched during movies.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about it too much as it's a compromised balance between an audio system and a HT system... However that's just me. My system is unbalanced in system power as well, and I can only see it becoming more unbalanced as I gain more amplifiers.

I have not heard the 1075 in stereo mode, however I'm sure its more than adquate, Infact I would bet it sounds excellent compared to say an Integrated Amp system, or other amps in this class, 2 chaneel or multi channel. However thats purely speculation on my part.

The 1056/1075 combo is a nice setup, that would sound very nice. Pluse you could Bi-Amp the set up as well if you felt so inclined.

[aud19]

I hope this doesn't require a flame suit but...

I vote for a 1080 and 1075 with your current reciever as pre/pro. (How current is your Marantz for surround formats etc?) Get great amplification for now (which will last you many years) and wait another generation to upgrade to a pre/pro. The 1075/1080 is a great balance of cost and performance allowing lot's of power to your mains for stereo and more than adequate power for your surrounds bennefitting both music and movies. Without spending a ton of money on unecessary (in most cases) 200w in the surrounds from the 1095. I mean sure if you have the budget go for the 1095 but you don't and I feel that will offer much better bang for your buck.

Jason

[hamlyn]

Definitely #4.

you will want one sooner or later.

The 1075 provides 120W all 5 channels driven. I personally do not use all that power in surround mode.
The 1056 by itself provides 75W all channels driven and 100W in 2 channel mode.
In stereo or 2 channel mode, the difference between 100W and 120W is almost negligible.
Having said that, I believe buying a 1056 and a 1075 is throwing money away.
I would seriously look into a 1095 for now or just a 1056 and nothing else. If the speakers you are considering require a lot of power, then perhaps a 1095 may not be a bad idea for now and a processor like the 1068 or perhaps even the 1098 down the road.
However, consider that the Dyn 52 series are rated at 150W and 4 Ohm impedance. You will definitely get higher output (nearly double) at that low impedance from the 1056 alone. So consider your speaker selection as well when making your decisions.

Hamlyn

[cmr15]

hamlyn,

Are you saying that with 4 ohm speakers (i.e. dyn 52se's) that the 1056, rated at 75W, will actually act as if it were a 150W source? .. or in stereo mode the 1056 will put out the equivalent of 200w (since it is rated at 100w for 8 ohm speakers)?

You see, I always thought that 4 ohm speakers were more difficult to drive, not easier.

I admit that my knowledge of electronics is somewhat lacking.

Please let me know if the above is true or if I am way off base.

thanks, craig

[hamlyn]

You are on track
While that philisophy will hold true on some, it is not so on all amps.

With Rotel for example, the 1095 will produce 330W at 4 Ohm while providing 200W on 8 Ohm speakers. The 1075 provides 120W into 8 ohms or 200W into 4 ohms. So with that in mind, it would be fair to deduce that the 1056 in 2 channel mode can produce close to 170W. This all depends on the power supply. The best source would be to contact Rotel to obtain exact figures.
But to answer your question in a nutshell, Rotel amps will put out higher wattage on lower impedance speakers. That is common and standard on most "good" amps.

[Kevin D]

While the nominal might be 4ohm, if the bass frequencies dip a lot under 2ohm, you might run into other problems. Since you have demoed them together, you probably won't have any issues.

Kevin D.

[Elmac]

Hello Craig,
Yes this is correct at 4 ohm you will get you twice the power.
What about #6 use your Marantz as an amp and get RSP 1068 as your procesor and start upgrading amps as money will come available.
Hope this helps

[hamlyn]

Elmac has a great idea:

1068 + 1075 from a dealer who will wheel and deal could be had for at least 10% - 15% off -which is not too far off from one of your choices. :T

[cmr15]

Well, I appreciate all the replies.

What I've decided to do is to unplug my Marantz and bring it with me to the dealer.

He's got all the above rotel products and will hopefully mix and match them for me so that I can see if I can perceive significant differences.

A quick question for Hamlyn.....

Hamlyn, why do you think that the 1056/1075 combo is a waste of money but the 1068/1075 is not? .... I was under the impression that the 1056 would be essentially the same as the 1068 if it were used as a dedicated pre/pro. Isn't that the case? I did do a search on this site and found that the chips are the same, and if I am not taxing the 1056's power supply by using its amps, wouldn't its output mirror the 1068?

Thanks
Craig

[hamlyn]

Craig,

I feel that purchasing a 1075 when you already have enough power in a 1056 would be redundant. The 1056 already provides enough juice to drive your speakers.
The few times when I make my system breathe hard is in 2 channel mode. The 1056 provides close to 170W in 2 channel mode when driving the Dyn 62SEs.
In home theatre mode, I personally do not crank it up that high, therefore, the 125W the 1056 potentially provides to the 52SEs is plenty.
To me, the delta between the 1056 and the 1075 power rating is not enough to justify buying the 1075. The 1095 on the other hand is a different matter. But then, considering your speakers and impedance rating, a 1095 could be excessive.
That is why I liked Elmac's recommendations....

[Dmantis]

Such great ideas.

I'm very experienced with Dynaudio speakers.Rotel I have worked with and love to death.Before I go any further,Dynaudio Audience and Rotel go together extremely well.

Seperates are always the best way to go.Using a receiver as a preamp is a nice way to get there slowly when money is a concern.If you don't have enough money to go with the rsp1068 and rmb1075,you have to consider the following choices as I see it.
rsx1055 used
rsx1065 used
rsx1056 new
rsx1067new
buying the rmb1075 now and use the Marantz as a pre untill you can save for the rsp1068

I actually got questions for you.First why the B&W inceilings?They don't match the tonal quality of the Dyns.Dynaudio does make inwall speakers if inwall is whats needed.I don't think they make inceiling,maybe they do now but I haven't seen them.Why not go with the 42w for rears?they are one of the very best sounding rears I have heard in this price class and slighty behond.Sweet sounding speakers(actually I'm going Dynaudio Audience).
The 122 center is clearly the leader in centers in this price class.I have never heard such a musical center other then higher end.The amount of bass that the 122 can reproduce is unheard of in a center channel without a powered woofer.WOW.
Off track a bit.Why not just go with the 1067 receiver?It has all the newest features and plenty of power for the Dynaudio Audience line.Even though the specs say 4 ohms and 86db,they are actually easy to drive.They are very stable.They don't bounce around like most speakers in the curve.What about a used 1065?

[cmr15]

dmantis,

I do agree with you re: the in ceiling speakers. The reason the dealer was pushing them was based on price and Waf. However, given the increased cost of installation, maybe dyns are possible for the rears. How much are the 42's? Btw, my set up would be 52se fronts, 122c center, ??type of surrounds, and either a b&w 700 or svs psb sub.

As for the 1067, I'm not really considering it since it doesn't offer an easy upgrade path.

I've considered used gear through audiogon/ebay but am a bit leary of spending hundreds or potentially thousands of dollars without certain assurances. Also, I believe that the rotel warrantee is void.

At this point I am really leaning toward the 1068/1075 despite the increased cost over the 1056 as pre/pro. However, I'd really like to hear if anyone feels that the 1056 would perform as well as the 1068 if used as a dedicated pre/pro.

...... You know, if I had spent the time that I've invested in this decision making process working at my job instead, I probably could have purchased a 1095/1098 by now :rofl: .... but where's the fun in that.

craig

[Dmantis]

cmr15,
the 42w's in color like cherry or Maple go for 900.00.Well worth the asking price.You could go with the 42c center channel and save a few bucks.A perfect match with the 52's as mains.Put that money towards the 42w rears.

I wouldn't lean toward it,I would go for it.rsp1068 /rmb1075 is the correct choice.Do man and don't look back.Forget about the 1056 unless your considering using it stand alone.If seperates are the game then go that way.thats my personal and professional opnion.

LOL.There are 3 rules I live my life by..WORK HARD,PLAY HARD,SLEEP HARD.It's a good balance.

Dan

[hamlyn]

However, I'd really like to hear if anyone feels that the 1056 would perform as well as the 1068 if used as a dedicated pre/pro.

craig

Ah, I see where you are going with this.

I have not performed a side-by-side comparison of the 1056 and 1068. I would expect there is a sonic improvement in the 1068, but I will leave that determination to the seasoned reviewers on the forum.

On a different note, I do not believe in mixing and matching speakers or for that matter amplifiers from different manufacturers. What I mean by that is: I like to maintain the same tibre in my speakers and to that end, I would consider buying all speakers from one manufacturer. While I am a huge fan of B&W, if you are leaning towards Dynaudio for your fronts, I would also stay with the same brand for the rears.

[aud19]

I agree, stay with the same company for speakers all around, heck try to stay in the same line if possible. I wouldn't however scrimp on a centre for better surrounds though. The centre is arguably the most important speaker in HT.

I just want to re-iterate my reccomendation of the 1075 and 1080 if you're happy with the Marantz Surround modes, upgrade that later when newer surround formats and better chips will make a bigger difference, concentrate on amps for now. If not my next recommendation is the 1068/1075 as I too don't see the point in paying for amps in the 1056 and 1075 to not use the ones in the 1056...

Jason

[cmr15]

I just want to re-iterate my reccomendation of the 1075 and 1080 if you're happy with the Marantz Surround modes, upgrade that later when newer surround formats and better chips will make a bigger difference, concentrate on amps for now. If not my next recommendation is the 1068/1075 as I too don't see the point in paying for amps in the 1056 and 1075 to not use the ones in the 1056...

Jason

Jason, my point regarding the 1056/1075 is that if the 1056 is essentially a 1068 with added amps, then I may as well use it as a pre/pro because it is $400 less expensive than the 1068. In fact, I could even redirect the unused amps to a second zone (living room) in time. However, if the 1056 as a dedicated pre/pro is not in the same league as the 1068, I would think it would be worth the extra cash for the 1068 since I really don't need the extra amps of the 1056 at this time.... I don't have speakers for a second zone.

... sorry... long winded. Anyhow, Jason can you tell me what you think of the 1056/1068 comparison as dedicated pre/pro's. Thanks, craig

[simonb68]

Thought I'd throw in my 2p's worth. I have a 1056 and recently purchased a used RB-991 (2ch power amp, 200W) as an experiment since I thought my Dynaudio Contour 1.1s would benefit from the extra power, and they did, much better dynamics, greater detail and tighter bass in 2ch. The improvement in HT was also obvious. I then managed to locate a used RB-993 (3ch power amp, 200W) which I had been on the lookout for for a while. I have a Dynaudio 122C centre speaker and the improvement in HT was pretty clear, as someone previously mentioned this thing can generate some amazing bass, as do the Contour's. Dialogue was better as was the whole centre channel.

So my point is that I believe the 52se's, and the centre channel, will likely benefit from more power than the 1056 provides, whether the difference between a 1075, 1080, 1095 is going to be noticeable can only be determined with an audition. I ended up with 200W for my rear channels which is overkill, but I'm not going to bother selling a quality amp that only cost me £250 and replace it with something lower specced. However I agree with others that you can get by with a lot less power, depending on what rears you go with, and therefore the focus should be on the amplication of the front three speakers. It's a great shame that Rotel no longer make a 3ch power amp, since that, and an RB-1050 would probably do you. Unless you opted for 42w's in which case I'd probably go a little higher, and in fact seriously consider the 1095, which will give you great 2ch, similar to what a 1080 would provide, great centre, and ample headroom for the rears should you get into multi-channel music.

So in my opinion you should demo the candidate amp choices and decide from there. As to whether you should go for the 1068 over the 1056, well I see your point, and its pretty valid. You get a tuner and zone 2 or rear surround amplification. There was a lot of debate over whether the 1066 was better than a 1055, the camp seemed to be split 50:50, asuming the same applies to the newer models then I'd suggest you would have to listen yourself to really know if you could hear the difference, but I would guess that the 1056 is certainly in the same league as the 1068. Strange, I'm sure that the 1068 is cheaper over here.

I don't know what prices are in the US, and haven't really followed all the costs of the different options to know what fits in your budget, but a 1056/1075 seems like a good starting package, but it is a compromise IMO. You can then upgrade where there are any weaknesses in the system and as funds allow, but may in the end cost you more than picking the 'right' starting components. My ideal choice, and what I will likely end up with, would be a 1068, a used 3ch power amp, and a suitable 2ch power amp for the rears. If you won't consider the used market for amps then I would suggest plumping for the quality amplication now in a 1095 which should last you a good long while then replace the Marantz when you can.

As for speakers I would definitely recommend the 122 over the Audience centre. The 52se's with their upgraded components are approaching Contour territory, the 122C is a better match (I auditioned both). I would also agree on the choice of the 42w's, I also listened to these with original 52s and they sounded great.

HTH
Simon