Down with scalers

[Redhawk]

The RSX-1057 and RDV-1045 with the B&W CM series are excellent, now I'm looking at going to seperates with the Rotel 200x5, and moving to all HDMI connections.

Can someone recommend a pre/pro of similiar quality and price as Rotel with about 4 HDMI inputs/1 output and accepts audio via HDMI but with (here's the important part) no video scaler?

[qm456]

Does Intergra Dtc-9.8 Ring A Bell Go For It

[Redhawk]

Does Intergra Dtc-9.8 Ring A Bell Go For It

No dice, has a scaler.

[hifiguymi]

There aren't many out there to begin with and they all have scalers that I've seen. Does the RSP-1069 not interest you even though you can bypass the scaler?

Eric

[Redhawk]

There aren't many out there to begin with and they all have scalers that I've seen. Does the RSP-1069 not interest you even though you can bypass the scaler?

Eric

From searching earlier posts there was more than one person who wrote that even in bypass mode the video signal was affected.

I prefer Rotel. The thing that got me going on this was Sony's new $400 STR-DG820. If it had preouts I would get it tomorrow.

[Nolan B]

From searching earlier posts there was more than one person who wrote that even in bypass mode the video signal was affected.

I prefer Rotel. The thing that got me going on this was Sony's new $400 STR-DG820. If it had preouts I would get it tomorrow.

in video bypass mode the video is not effected. Essentially you are rendering the scaler completely useless.

[cxc21]

in video bypass mode the video is not effected. Essentially you are rendering the scaler completely useless.

Scaler yes, but it is not pure HDMI pass through.
Still you can't hook up a Mac/PC through it although things work fine without the 1069. It is not just straight pass through. HDMi communication is affected.

[Redhawk]

Scaler yes, but it is not pure HDMI pass through.
Still you can't hook up a Mac/PC through it although things work fine without the 1069. It is not just straight pass through. HDMi communication is affected.

Thank you, my point exactly. No way I'm spending 2k for. Is there someone (preferably Rotel) that can cut the thing out and hardwire it to the output?

Anyone know of a splitter with dual output that doesn't have an amplifier in it? The Geffen and Octava both do.

[cxc21]

I suspect that the HDMI circuit is not just wire. It probably still goes through an HDCP chip which may be the problem here. In my case a Mac does all the scaling, so I just need hardwire switch and hdmi sound processing. I was about to buy a Rotel processor, but it is clearly made without a thought about the fact that Macs/Pcs are now mainstream media delivery systems. I am still looking for a processor which is more flexible.

[hifiguymi]

There is certainly HDCP still in the circuit. My guess, cxc21, there is an HDCP issue with your PC. I've seen it happen quite a few times with all sorts of receivers and preamps that you get no picture when it's in the signal path. As soon as you hook the source up directly to the display, every thing works fine. It's happened mostly with cable boxes but I've seen it with DVD players and a BD player.

When the bypass is turned on in the RSP-1069 there is no video processing in place. If all that is needed is a switch than the RSP-1098 has that. If you need something with audio support on HDMI then the RSP-1069 is the only processor I know of that you can bypass the scaler. The RSP-1069 will still convert analog video to digital so you can output that input through the HDMI. As long as the output resolution on the RSP-1069 is set at 480p, and the bypass is turned on, nothing is done to the HDMI signals that are coming into it.

Eric

[Redhawk]

The Faroudja DVP-1080HD ($4,460, and almost certainly not the same processor Rotel uses) says it has HDTV/computer pass-through and is HDCP compatible.

Which Faroudja processor is in the 1069?

Is the bypass Rotel uses done by the processor (most likely), or a switch of some sort before the processor?

Can you run the Mac/PC through without bypassing and have it work?

Does anyone know if the Mac is outputting HDMI 1.3 with the higher bandwidth (340 Mhz)/bitrate(10.2Gbps as opposed to 4.9Gbps on v1.1) Mac's site suggests it is but doesn't give any specs to know for certain.

It has to be either an inferior processor (We know that already), an HDCP issue (maybe), or a high bandwidth issue due to a 1.3 output (maybe).

[cxc21]

[QUOTE=hifiguymi]There is certainly HDCP still in the circuit. My guess, cxc21, there is an HDCP issue with your PC. I've seen it happen quite a few times with all sorts of receivers and preamps that you get no picture when it's in the signal path. As soon as you hook the source up directly to the display, every thing works fine. It's happened mostly with cable boxes but I've seen it with DVD players and a BD player.

When the bypass is turned on in the RSP-1069 there is no video processing in place. If all that is needed is a switch than the RSP-1098 has that. If you need something with audio support on HDMI then the RSP-1069 is the only processor I know of that you can bypass the scaler. The RSP-1069 will still convert analog video to digital so you can output that input through the HDMI. As long as the output resolution on the RSP-1069 is set at 480p, and the bypass is turned on, nothing is done to the HDMI signals that are coming into it.

Yes I think its the HDCP chip too or its software implementations. Nevertheless, it is confirmed that even with the bypass engaged Mac/PC will not work with the 1069, also the 1098 does not work in this setting. I tried , the communication between the monitor/projector and the Mac is interrupted. It is very frustrating that Rotel designed these without looking at MAC/PC integration since most people these days have most of their media on their computers. I am looking at the Integras which seem to be alright in these settings. That said it is not Rotel specific, a lot of receivers and HDMi switches have these problems as I learned. We have to thank HDCP for this confusion. Most people do not consider that HDMI signals in these components are always processed through HDCP chip and electronics, it is not anymore just switching wired connections. To stick with
Rotel, I would have to get an 1069 to get HDMI audio but route the HDMi video through an extra switch. Instead I thought to get an older processor without HDMI and use the analogue or LPCM out of the BD player and the toslink from my Mac.

[cxc21]

The Faroudja DVP-1080HD ($4,460, and almost certainly not the same processor Rotel uses) says it has HDTV/computer pass-through and is HDCP compatible.

Which Faroudja processor is in the 1069?

Is the bypass Rotel uses done by the processor (most likely), or a switch of some sort before the processor?

Macs don't work so I assume it is done by the processor

Can you run the Mac/PC through without bypassing and have it work?

It does not work neither with nor without bypass.

Does anyone know if the Mac is outputting HDMI 1.3 with the higher bandwidth (340 Mhz)/bitrate(10.2Gbps as opposed to 4.9Gbps on v1.1) Mac's site suggests it is but doesn't give any specs to know for certain.

Depending on the grafik card it will put out whatever you want. HDMI resolutions are trivial in comparison to monitor resolutions. I am driving a 2560x1600 dpi monitor on an 5 year old DP 2Ghz G5 at 120 fps. You can select all HDMI resolutions supported be your monitor when connected directly through DVI to HDMi adapter ($12). However nothing works through the 1069.

It has to be either an inferior processor (We know that already), an HDCP issue (maybe), or a high bandwidth issue due to a 1.3 output (maybe).

The 1069 somehow prevents the Mac to communicate with the monitor/projector. Most likely an software issue. I suspect that the Rotel wants to see an HDCP hand shake from the Mac which will never happen since there is no HDCP support from Apple (fortunately). That blocks all communication even for HD material which doesn't use HDCP. But this is just my guess.

[esaleris]

cxc21,

That's even worse than my scenario. Are you not able to even get 720p from the Mac to the projector? I can do 720p, just not 1080p.

[cxc21]

cxc21,

That's even worse than my scenario. Are you not able to even get 720p from the Mac to the projector? I can do 720p, just not 1080p.

Everything works fine when the projector is connected directly to the Mac. However, with the 1069 in between nothing works over HDMI. I tested this with loaner and until I find a solution to this I won't buy one. There is another user here which reported the same issue and has tried different TVs macs etc without luck. Do you use a processor/receiver?

[esaleris]

I've only recently redeployed my Mac mini as a HT, so lemme check my settings. But I am sure that I was using Mac mini -> RSP-1069 -> projector with 720p with no problems. The issues only started when I tried 1080p.

It may have to do with having the projector on and running when you turn on the Mac mini. I will be playing with this this weekend.

[cxc21]

I've only recently redeployed my Mac mini as a HT, so lemme check my settings. But I am sure that I was using Mac mini -> RSP-1069 -> projector with 720p with no problems. The issues only started when I tried 1080p.

It may have to do with having the projector on and running when you turn on the Mac mini. I will be playing with this this weekend.

Great. That is hopeful. Mac Mini -DVI to HDMi adaptor to 1069 and hdmi cable to projector? Macos 10.5 ? The older mac minis were a little week on the grafik memory side. Does the mac mini recognize the projector and it's resolutions in the Display prefs when connected through the 1069? Which projector is it?

[esaleris]

cxc21 - Confirmed to work. Mac mini -> DVI to HDMI cable to RSP-1069 to 30 ft. HDMI 1.3 certified to projector. It's running Leopard. The mini recognizes only the "RSP-1069" but is able to, by default, select most 16:9 displays, including 720p. 1080p is not present. That's what I'm working on next.

Hope that helps.

[cxc21]

cxc21 - Confirmed to work. Mac mini -> DVI to HDMI cable to RSP-1069 to 30 ft. HDMI 1.3 certified to projector. It's running Leopard. The mini recognizes only the "RSP-1069" but is able to, by default, select most 16:9 displays, including 720p. 1080p is not present. That's what I'm working on next.

Hope that helps.

Excellent. Do you get 1080p when you connect the mac to the projector directly? Is this with or without bypass?

[esaleris]

Excellent. Do you get 1080p when you connect the mac to the projector directly? Is this with or without bypass?

I wouldn't be trying to get 1080p if I thought it couldn't be done! Haha, yes, I get 1080p directly. My RSP-1069 has the bypass.

[esaleris]

Excellent. Do you get 1080p when you connect the mac to the projector directly? Is this with or without bypass?

Great news for you, cxc21 - I finally got 1080p passed through the RSP-1069! I bought Gefen's DVI Detective (link here) and programmed it by directly connecting the box to the display. Then I routed the cables through the RSP-1069 and viola, 1080p!

It seems like the RSP-1069 mucks with the EDID signal or something. I could never get PowerStrip/SwitchRes X/DisplayConfig to do this, but the device works!

Hope that's good news for you too, man!

[cxc21]

Great news for you, cxc21 - I finally got 1080p passed through the RSP-1069! I bought Gefen's DVI Detective (link here) and programmed it by directly connecting the box to the display. Then I routed the cables through the RSP-1069 and viola, 1080p!

It seems like the RSP-1069 mucks with the EDID signal or something. I could never get PowerStrip/SwitchRes X/DisplayConfig to do this, but the device works!

Hope that's good news for you too, man!

Indeed it is, thank you so much.