Sadly Disappointed by the RB-1092

[snowball]

I am wondering why is the rb-1090 beeing discontinued.

After all its the reference amp of rotel.Shouldnt dropping the price on it,produce more sales?

A lot of people will buy more rb-1090's,which before considered it out of their price range,while the rb-1092/1 will be the "high - end" amp !
IMO it would be a better marketing "trick" than discontinuing it completely.

If the price drops,people that allready own one,or that are planning to buy one,will be more eager to get a second one ,and will produce more income for rotel.

And even if the Rb-1090,sells better than the rb-1092/1 due to the price drop,there will be no loss for rotel,as the quantity of the units sold will equal the expected income from the rb-1092/1.

Also,a lot of people are sceptical about buying the new "digital" amps.If there is only the digital amps avalaible,some will buy from other manufacturers,just to be sure,while if both are available,possible lost customers will buy the rb-1090,and maybe after some time will trade in their amp for the rb-1092.

it just doesnt makes sense to me!

[asimov66]

im following this thread very carefully since i havent really tested the 1092 in detail but after my last listening i think this lacks "soul" (what a strange definition) im sorry but i dont know how to descibe it otherways. And also there is something with a rb 1090 the pure size of it gives a sense of....power and it delivers. But the latter the visual expectations it is all in the mind.

[DrJRapp]

It's interesting that you mentioned that. I felt similarly about the 1077, like it was almost too perfect. Not that I found any fault in this characteristic, since I truely belive that an amp's job is to be as close to a straight wire with gain as possible. I prefer to leave the "character and soul" aspects up to the performers, not the equipment.

Now, weather or not a piece of gear moves you aesthetically is another story. Some guys like their cars big, powerful and loud so they scream "notice me", others like theirs compact, quick and precise, to get the job done with as little fanfare as possible.

[asimov66]

true and therefore i almost didn't post the term "soul" because it's subjective...but so are all impressions.
Thanks for the feedback.

[RebelMan]

This was a great opportunity to meet Gump and Andrew and to exercise some equipment. I enjoyed the time we spent together. Thanks guys!

[RebelMan]

I think all amps have soul, they just differ on personality. LOL

[miner]

Fun was had by all: as pictured Gump Andrew James Dean

Sorry I could not be there then. An interesting looking group of gentlemen. I was hiking Aravaipa Canyon this weekend, but missing the SLM gathering was something I had to do. I have had these RSVP for Aravaipa for 3 months. Maybe next time guys. Waiting for the reviews, too.

[mattburk]

I am wondering why is the rb-1090 beeing discontinued.

After all its the reference amp of rotel.Shouldnt dropping the price on it,produce more sales?

A lot of people will buy more rb-1090's,which before considered it out of their price range,while the rb-1092/1 will be the "high - end" amp !
IMO it would be a better marketing "trick" than discontinuing it completely.

If the price drops,people that allready own one,or that are planning to buy one,will be more eager to get a second one ,and will produce more income for rotel.

And even if the Rb-1090,sells better than the rb-1092/1 due to the price drop,there will be no loss for rotel,as the quantity of the units sold will equal the expected income from the rb-1092/1.

Also,a lot of people are sceptical about buying the new "digital" amps.If there is only the digital amps avalaible,some will buy from other manufacturers,just to be sure,while if both are available,possible lost customers will buy the rb-1090,and maybe after some time will trade in their amp for the rb-1092.

it just doesnt makes sense to me!

Agreed. I asked if they were on sale, he said nope full price and I had to special order.

[Gump]

1090 vs 1092

Gump's Opinion:

Listening to the 1090 vs the 1092 on Saturday at SLM with Andrew and RebelMan was a lot of fun. Exchanging idea's and observations was both entertaining as well as educational. Both of them are very knowledgable people.

They were handling the technical aspect of the demo which was performed with a Rotel electronics, Musical Fidelity DAC and DynAudio speakers.

Several different CD's were used, mainly light listening/jazz type music.

This was not a scientific demo. There was no sound meter to calibrate db levels. Nor was this a blind test. We knew which amp was playing as we went. This was simply an informal listening demo for fun.

This was the first time I had heard the 1090 go head to head with the 1092. In my opinion the 1090 had the edge. The sound was simply fuller and had more depth than the 1092. Some of the music (Andrew pointed out the piano on a David Benoit cd) seemed more realistic/smoother with the 1092 over the 1090.

I still like the 1092. Some of the CD's were very close sounding compared to others. Whoever buys the 1092 will be very happy with it. It's an awsome amp. Just don't have a 1090 sitting right next to it to compare it with and you should be alright.

I want to emphasis that this is MY opinion. I don't want anyone to think that I'm speaking for either Andrew or RebelMan...... Not that either one of them would let me get away with it if I tried!

[Joey_V]

Gump's opinion mirrors mine and Rebelman's opinion...

Andrew... what say you?

[mattburk]

Well some one needs to get us a group power/clearance buy on the 1090? Andrew are you the man for this?

[Stevebez]

Go on Andrew ... spill the beans ???

Rgds Steve.

[shep]

group discount on RB-1090?

wish it were true ... but sign me up if anyone can make it happen. Ready to upgrade from the RB-1070 for my B&W 804s.

[MoonSpin]

That's pretty much what I been saying too. I prefer the RB-1090 over the RB-1092 but the RB-1092 still sounds very nice. If I didn't have the RB-1090, I would welcome to have the RB-1092 just fine. After I listened to the RB-1092 even more like some suggested, the sound grew on me more and I liked it. I've heard the RB-1090 had some changes and fine-tuning over time so maybe the RB-1092 will to. :T

[Audiophiliac]

We still dont have the 1092 in our store yet, but the rep told us we needed to hook 2 channels of the 1077 to the Watt/Puppies and see what we thought. Hmm......as good as it might be, I dont think it will do what the CA-2200 is doing with them now.

I just picked up 3 Xtant 1.1i full range class D 100W monoblocks for my car though. They are about the size of a CD jewel case and 1.5" thick. Should be interesting to see what they can do.

[obiwan]

I have one of the older Rotel Michi power amps. When turned on but with no music playing, you can hear hear the tweeters buzzing away,even sitting on the lounge 3 meters away. The same thing happens if I use an RB993 I have as well. However if I use my BelCanto digital amp, no such buzzing occurs. Are there any "buzzing"issues with any of the 1090, 1091 or 1092?

[Stevebez]

Thats one of the best things I have noted with my rotel amps 1075 / 1080 / 1092 is that the background is really quiet. I think there have only been reports of the 1095 giving some hum on occasion ... but this is also dependant on the speaker sensitivity ...speakers which are less efficient / hard to drive will damp the humm / buzzing unless it is really severe.

Ground humm is a nightmare to resolve sometimes.

Rgds Steve.

[miner]

I had a slight buzz with my RB-1070. Th ebuzz is gone with the RB-1092. This was my first test at the dealer. I am using N804 mains & ASW800 sub.

[grit]

Please don't hook your Wilson's up to the 1077. Maybe more like some Nagra tube amps!

[DrJRapp]

I got to listen to some Wilson Sophia's on the 1077 and I think that it was a fine combination.

[miner]

Come on guys, three met, one reported. Share your other thoughts after pondering with the 'crew'. Enquiring minds need to know how it went.

[RebelMan]

Come on guys, three met, one reported. Share your other thoughts after pondering with the 'crew'. Enquiring minds need to know how it went.

It could have been four of us but someone was missing... gee, I wonder who?! LOL

I'll summarise my report by stating that my position is unchanged. How's that?

[Andrew M Ward]

Come on guys, three met, one reported. Share your other thoughts after pondering with the 'crew'. Enquiring minds need to know how it went.

Sorry for the delay... sheeez man... :roll:
(Been a little busy lately)

For starters, this may have been billed as a listening test shoot-out but it really kind of turned into a hang-out and talk about hi-fi and shoot the breeze...pretty mellow and very enjoyable.

A) The room was a fairly good room for low frequency but a little smallish otherwise, it worked fine.

B) The music we used was varied and not always the best for sonic testing, but it worked fine...

C) The switching process was speedy and effective, so we could really have good sonic memory (that was nice)

D) we didn't volume match, or even really try to, which effects the results a bit, but we all heard what we needed to hear and none of our original perspectives were changed, maybe softened or relaxed but basically unchanged.

We talked about the future of the RB1090 and the slow historical development of the class D products, we talked about Musical Fidelity gear and Rotel preamplifiers and we talked about DyneAudio speakers and B&W speakers...

We discussed our personal tastes and preferences, we shared trivial personal items, we were mellow, and it was nice.

I do believe the soft dome tweeter helped the RB1090
I do believe the RB1092 has a quieter noise floor

I also believe that our personal findings reflect our personality characteristics fairly closely... That said The RB1090 is a great product and a great deal, the RB1092 will out sell it world wide about 10 to 1 over its lifetime...

2 cents
Andrew

[Audiophiliac]

Please don't hook your Wilson's up to the 1077. Maybe more like some Nagra tube amps!

I am not personally going to do that. Thats just what the Rotel rep said. He thought we would be surprised at how good it sounded.

I miss the FPB-700cx. Someone had to buy it to use on his 802s! The Anthem P2 didnt quite cut it on the Wilsons, but I think the Classe 2200 is a good match. I think a pair of CAM 400 would be dope.

[miner]

In summary, Rotel makes great value gear. If I could afford the Classe' Delta Series amp & Pre for $8500 I am not sure I would do it considering the value I have now for $4000. We all have our personal tastes in music reproduction. Sorry I missed the shoot-out.

[Stevebez]

Bottom line to those who are interested in these D's - go have a listen and decide for yourselves...!!!

Its mixed opinions at mom, and thats fine. To me if it can hold its own against a 1090 - I am pretty happy given the overall package !!

Rgsd Steve.

[Gump]

Fun was had by all: as pictured Gump Andrew James Dean

This is a tad off the subject, but in the interest of spreading the love I want to mention how cool the guys that work at Sounds Like Music were about this whole demo thing. We basically invaded their store and took over one of their listening rooms while they were trying to conduct their daily sales business. They were gracious and helpful through the whole thing (including taking our picture) and I'd like to thank them for their good natured professionalism. :T

I was going to mention this in my opinion post but I forgot.....might have had something to do with the 3 yr old and 1 yr old that were climbing on me like I was a jungle-gym when I was trying to write it...LOL

[MoonSpin]

Hum or Buzz on RB-1090

The only time I get hum or buzz from the RB-1090 is when I hooked up a DVD player to it. It's kind of a known problem with DVD players video signal or such not grounded, as some folks mentioned to me and told me to ground the DVD player threw a power-strip or such. Once I did that, the hum and buzz went away. I don't get any hum or buzz with other Rotel equipment used with the RB-1090, only some other brands that must not ground, other than that the RB-1090 is very quiet, more than any other amps I've had in the past. I totally forgot to even check that with the RB-1092 when I had it.

[MoonSpin]

Thanks for sharing with us, it was nice reading your experiences!

[miner]

Last night a coworker brought over his 1090 to A/B against my 1092. It was a fun night to say the least. Glad today was a holiday - a late night of enjoying music. Fisrt of all- the soundstage (SS). It was more forward with the 1092. We agreed that with the 1090 the SS was more central, somewhat behind the speakers (B&W 804N & ASW800 sub). The bass rssponse (w/o sub) was equal with the 1092 having a slight edge on crispness/purity. This was very evident on SRV's "Riviera Paradise', one of my favorite test tracks. The 1090 exhibited a more natural sound on the mids and highs. Not that they were terrible on the 1092, but a bit more 'bright'. This may be tamed with different ICs/speaker cables. My visitor was very impressed by the shear size/weight of the 1092. When he first laid eyes on it he said "I thought you told me it is rated at 500w/ch". Upon turning the volume knob on my RC-1090 to the 1 o'clock position, he quickly became convinced of the power rating. In fact he is considering adding a 1091 & 1092 to complete his HT setup using the 1090 as his rear driver, 1092 for mains & 1091 for center. The 1092 ran so much cooler especialy after 3.5 hrs of usage. I will admit I felt more warmth with the 1090 but also the 1092 has been becoming more warm with usage. I may have 50 hrs usage on this amp. Once again, different ICs may help (currently using Straightwire Symphony). Bottom line, Rotel makes great equipment. Keep in mind that the 1092 is really an analogue design that uses pulse width modulation that represents the ongoing amplitude of the signal it receives. So, for those who are considering a 1090 or 1092 go listen for yourself. You will not be disappointed by either amp OR yo may be. It is your choice.

[Kobus]

Thanks miner.

Must have been a nice session.

Kobus

[dagjohnsen]

opposite experience

I have infact way better experience with the RB-1092 than the RB-1090, having owned the 1090 twice and used it for my Infinity Kappa 9.2i and a pair of Martin Logan Aeon i.

The 1090 worked very well with the Logans, I never tried the 1092 on those speakers.
But this comparison is about driving the Kappas.
The match with 1092 is WAY better, much better control and definition in the bass, more open and clear mids, better vocal presentation and the treble is awesome.

So I think this is also a matter of match, anyway the 1092 really impresses me a lot, but be aware it needs at least 30-50 good ours of break in before you can start testing for real.

Dag

[musman]

I have a RB-1092 I think it sounds great. I am driving a pair of B&W Matrix 800's with it. After trying many amps I think I will be happy with the 1092 for a long while. It has more than enough power & just sounds good.

[dagjohnsen]

silent background

And the 1092`s background is dead silent, no hum or noise at all, the 1090 did have some hum/noise.

I think the 1092 in time will show its qualyties as a great amp just as the 1090 has been for a long time.

[DL86]

Connect a ground wire to the 1090 and the 1090 is dead silent aswell...

[bigburner]

Connect a ground wire to the 1090 and the 1090 is dead silent aswell...

Hi DL86,

Would you please explain exactly what you mean by this, e.g. do you run a wire from the 1090's chassis to a standalone earth?

Nigel.

[DL86]

Well, I connect the chassis of 1090 to the chassis of cd-t80 and that apparantly removes 99% of the hum. I am grounding the 1090 through the cd-t80. This is all done with a single peice of wire.

David

[bigburner]

Thanks David. I had visions of you driving a metal spike 2 feet into the ground and using this as the earth for your amp.

The hum that I eliminated completely 6 months ago has mysteriously returned after I trialled a Benchmark DAC1, although it's fairly gentle now. I've tried the wire from the amp to the preamp / CD player trick but the hum is still there. The metal spike is starting to look like an easy option...

Nigel.

[DL86]

Hmmm I used to have a problem with a faulty interconnect. The negative wire was actually making contact with the positive wire inside the cable and this also caused a 50 hz hum through my speakers. Took the cable apart and resoldered it with some silver solder and the hum was gone. Try using a different pair of interconnects. Not guartanteed that it will fix it but worth a try.

David