Rotel 1056

[Stev]

Hi Im considering buying a 1056 and have a question about configuring it. If I purchase an additional power amp to drive my mains from the preouts can I reassign the the l&r fronts of the 1056 to drive outdoor speakers for a second zone ?

Thanks

Steve

[Stev]

The other question was is the 1070 a worthwhile upgrade in power ? Is it very noticeable ?

Steve

[aud19]

Yes and for the most part, yes (Though it will depend slightly on your speakers etc on how much you'll "notice" )

[Azeke]

Yes and for the most part, yes (Though it will depend slightly on your speakers etc on how much you'll "notice" )

Nuff said 8) .

Regards,

Azeke

[Stev]

Thanks I asume l&r fronts can be reassigned but will only play what ever source is being used in the main room ? As stereo of course ? My mains are 4ohm floorstanders - whatmough opus 30's.

Steve

[JDH]

Thanks I asume l&r fronts can be reassigned but will only play what ever source is being used in the main room ? As stereo of course ? My mains are 4ohm floorstanders - whatmough opus 30's.

Steve

I think in the manual it says that the front L&R channels can be re-assigned to either the zone 2 or the centre back, this would mean you could have two different sources playing. ie. music or TV etc in the main area and music in the zone 2 outdoor area. The RB-1070 should be pretty good with the opus 30's, if you happy spending a bit more you might notice further improvement with the RB-1080.

You can download the manual in pdf at the rotel web site.

[Stev]

Thanks i will download the manual. As I've never used power amps before I'm just wondering how do you get the levels of the amplified mains tha same as rest of the speakers ? Obviously you can adjust the levels in the level trims menu but does this remain constantly balanced through the full volume range given different speakers are recieving different levels of amplification ? I guess the answer is probably obvious if you are used to doing this type of setup.

Steve

[JDH]

Thanks i will download the manual. As I've never used power amps before I'm just wondering how do you get the levels of the amplified mains tha same as rest of the speakers ? Obviously you can adjust the levels in the level trims menu but does this remain constantly balanced through the full volume range given different speakers are recieving different levels of amplification ? I guess the answer is probably obvious if you are used to doing this type of setup.

Steve

You generally adjust speaker levels by ear until they have the same sound level, best to do this balance at levels you would typically watch movies at.

I also own a sound meter and you can use the sound meter to assist in more detailed calibration.

[Kevin D]

For the most part amps are linear. They will apply the same amplification to whatever level they receive. Just to make sure, it's recommended that you set the levels at a loud level (75 - 85 volume). Mainly this gets you above room noise level, but amplifiers tend to be more stable at higher input levels.

To put a final answer on your first question, when you reassign the front amps to power zone 2, it is a fully independent zone. Separate volume and source. Something to keep in mind however, all sources that you would like to listen to in the second zone need to have analog connections. So if you normally only hook up your DVD via a digital connection, you will still have to run analog L/R cables to hear it in the second zone.

Kevin D.

[Kevin D]

You generally adjust speaker levels by ear until they have the same sound level, best to do this balance at levels you would typically watch movies at.

I would like (and hope) that this eventually gets changed to 'you generally adjust levels by an SPL meter'..

You wouldn't believe how wrong your ears can be! I do this by trade and always use a sound meter on clients systems. At home however, I tend to think owner knows best and do get lazy.. I remember one time I had changed some things around and never got around to resetting any levels. When I purchased a new DTS demo disc, I wasn't getting the surround effects I was looking for. "The rears must be too low" I told myself, and sure enough they sounded low on the test-tones as well. Cranked them up 1-2DB and still wasn't hearing the effects I thought I should. Turned them up another decible. Nope, not there yet..

After this I broke out the meter. Turns out I was about 6db too loud in the rear! That means I was all ready 3db loud when my ears told me to turn it up. After setting it properly with a meter, all was well.

I guess the long moral of the story is, your ears lie, the meter usually doesn't, and too loud of rears can through off the entire sound-stage; making your think you don't have enough.

Kevin D.

[Stev]

Thanks for those tips. So for setting levels - just do it as per usual with an spl meter at a test tone of 75db ? or at 75 -85 on the volume control ? I asume you would leave the front L&R ch set a 0 - asuming they are the same reading - and adjust all other ch to suit. I'm guessing the result would be that all other ch would end up with higher than 0 levels becuase of the lesser amplification ?

Steve

[Stev]

Also the tuner being analog would be available for zone 2 ?

Steve

[Kevin D]

I generally set the Rotel at 75 on the volume and then adjust all the speakers to 75db (subwoofers I set to 85db/personal preferance). Since Rotel's volume doesn't use a negative DB scale, this is as close as you can get to the volume actually meaning something. As far as different levels, they should be close to the same depending upon how the input is handled on the amp side. The fronts may be louder, they may not. With test tones you're not going to be using all your watts anyway. More watts is going to give the ability to go louder with more control. 120 watts at 75db is just as loud as 50 watts at 75db.

And yes, the tuner is always available on zone 2.

Kevin D.

[Stev]

If I go with the 1056/1070 would you naturally set the mains to large in all situations to be sending full range signal to the 1070 given my speakers ?

Steve

[aud19]

I use full range for music listening but umless your speakers are full range (they're not) use a crossover for them. I generally like to use the +20HZ rule. In other words if your speakers are rated as having useful output down to say 35-40HZ, use a crossover of 60HZ. If they rated closer to 50-60HZ, use an 80HZ crossover etc.

As for the amps and channel leveling... All the bigger amp on your L&R's mean is that there's more power in reserve for them for dynamic passages. If you set the levels with an SPL meter, all your channels will play at the proper and same volume. The mains will just have more headroom, less risk of clipping at HIGH volumes and should generally give better 2-ch performance when listening to music as well as likely cleaner deep bass response.

[Stev]

Well i've ordered a rsx 1056 - so will probably be spending some time here! Some googling has suggested some hissing problems with earlier 1056 models - is this true? - if so was there a fix? Is there a build date to be looking for ? Or am i worrying about nothing - probably.

Steve

[Kevin D]

This the first run did have a hissing problem. The fix is to send it in or get it replaced. Since you said you ordered one, that means the dealer didn't have any in stock and you will be getting a new one. Shouldn't have a problem.

Kevin D.

[Stev]

Yes they will be getting one in but as I'm in Australia I'm just wondering how quick the stock moves here compared to the US. The importers here may still be moving older stock ?

Steve

[Aussie Geoff]

Stev,

Australia usually runs out of stock on most Rotel products on regular occassions (they only make limited runs of the Aussie spec units). If your dealer has had to order one in 99% it will be a new shipment from Japan... The only other possibily would be if you got a repaired unit which was fualty out of the box (in which case the box is normally marked "R" or "D" and clearly openned before. These are sold at a discount.

Geoff

[Stev]

Thanks for that tip Geoff. I have now got one - the box has been opened - sticker says final inspection been made in OZ. It's a blue/orange sticker. The dealer asures me that it's a new one. Been going for a few hours and so far I'm pretty impressed with the SQ - only been playing music. Noticeably better at lower volumes than my old avr too. I will be looking to add zone 2 in the near future and am after suggestions as to the pro's and con's of either going with a 2ch 1080 or 5ch 1075 amp. The prices to go either way are similar so its just a question of which will give the best results.

Thanks

Steve

[bokes]

Will the Rotel 1056 accept the Monster THX banana plugs?

[Aussie Geoff]

Will the Rotel 1056 accept the Monster THX banana plugs?

Yes it will

[Aussie Geoff]

Thanks for that tip Geoff. I have now got one - the box has been opened - sticker says final inspection been made in OZ. It's a blue/orange sticker. The dealer asures me that it's a new one.

Yes - this is the Rotel Australia distributors QA check to deal with any minor quality issues (the USA now has a similar system).

Noticeably better at lower volumes than my old avr too. I will be looking to add zone 2 in the near future and am after suggestions as to the pro's and con's of either going with a 2ch 1080 or 5ch 1075 amp. The prices to go either way are similar so its just a question of which will give the best results.

What speakers do you have and have you considered 7 channel sound? Also are you after improving HT, Stereo or both?

[JDH]

Thanks for that tip Geoff. I have now got one - the box has been opened - sticker says final inspection been made in OZ. It's a blue/orange sticker. The dealer asures me that it's a new one. Been going for a few hours and so far I'm pretty impressed with the SQ - only been playing music. Noticeably better at lower volumes than my old avr too. I will be looking to add zone 2 in the near future and am after suggestions as to the pro's and con's of either going with a 2ch 1080 or 5ch 1075 amp. The prices to go either way are similar so its just a question of which will give the best results.

Thanks

Steve

I agree the discounted pricing for either the RMB-1075 or RB-1080 will be the same, if you want the best 2 ch sound go with the RB-1080, however if your focus is more HT then the RMB-1075 would be the better overall option. If you want to save a bit of money the RB-1070 might be another option. If you do buy an RB-1080 you should be able to incorporate it into any future upgrade. Either way you will be using the inbuilt 75w amps of the RSX-1056 for your zone 2 outdoor area.

[Stev]

Geoff I have whatmough opus 30 4 ohm floorstanders for mains - the rest of my speakers are jensen old floorstanding mains are now rears - all 8 ohm. The jensens are not in the class of the whatmough's but are not too bad. As far as what I hope to improve - I'm really just after the ability to get zone 2 - which means a minimum of a 2ch amp. To be honest at this early stage I'm very happy with the sound as it is but if a 1080 will improve 2ch significantly thats probably the way I'll go. I listen to music more than I watch movies and only listen to 2ch music in 2ch. From the rotel website it appears as though the 1080 allows for bi-amping as do the whatmough's (currently have them bi-wired). Is bi-amping worthwhile ? What is a good price in Australia for a 1080 ?

Steve

[bokes]

Software version?

Just picked up a 1056.
How can I tell what software version the unit is running?
I want to know if the latest is installed.
Will software upgrade fix the hiss?

I asked the salesman if the hiss has been fixed. He first acted as if he didn't know anything about it- then assured me there will be no hiss.
Well- there's hiss.
It's not bad and I'm sure I could live with it- but from what I've read in my reasearch- it shouldn't be there.
I live in the city- with no car- so unhooking the unit and shipping it to Rotel would be a major hassle.

If it can't be fixed with a software upgrade I guess I'll deal with it.

Besides that- it sounds fantastic. I'm quite pleased.

[Kevin D]

Define hiss? It's crackling and pops that was the issue with the first run. You can hold down the MUTE button and the display will show you what version you are running, but no update will fix a hiss issue.

It's it's a hiss at low volume that you can only hear from 1-2 feet away from the speaker, that's normal. If it's hiss you can hear from your seat and through music, you have other issues that may or may not be the 1056.

Kevin D.

[bokes]

Thanks Kevin,
What I hear is a very low hiss - and yes- only with my ear to the speaker.
I've heard this type of low noise on other receivers throughout the years- so I always thought it was normal. It never invades the Music.
But, I kept reading about- what everyone was calling "hiss" and the 1056 and how it should not be there on a high end unit.

Anyway. No pops or cracks- just good, good sounds.

[aud19]

Hiss is there on anything. Even BIG DOLLAR $$$$$$$$ components have some (albiet usually quieter) hiss with your ear up to the tweeter. Do you listen to music 3 inches from your speaker....?

If you can't hear it from your seating area, it's not an issue :T

[bokes]

Know-
Can someone please explain what the 12 trigger(?) feature is? And what it does?

I can't find any info in the manual and I do not understand what the 1 +2 settings mean.

Sorry- before the Rotel I had a very cheap and old HK.

[aud19]

12v trigger allow you to connect seperate components (like a seperate amp for example) and the trigger sends out a signal to the connected component to automatically turn it on when you set it to do so

[bokes]

Thanks.
Another question:
How do I set the CD mode to 2 channel audio?
The front panel has a 2ch option- but;
The only default option in the set-up screen is PCM 2 channel.
I want the default to be normal 2ch.

I want to be able to play 2 ch stereo audio from my CD patched through optical 1 input.

Thanks much.

[Kevin D]

Thanks.
I want to be able to play 2 ch stereo audio from my CD patched through optical 1 input.

Thanks much.

If you are only using the digital input, your only option is PCM stereo. That's 'digital' stereo. If you want stereo bypass, you need to run the connection analog.

Kevin D.

[bokes]

understood.
thanks.

[Stev]

Im got a similar query as bokes has above with 2ch. I understand how the 2ch pcm/analog bybass/stereo setup works. I have both coax and analog conections. In 2ch mode either pcm or stereo(non-bypass) the sub doesnt work. This doesnt bother me greatly but it is shown on the front panel display. I have it configured as on in the setup menu. From the way i read the manual it is because I have the mains set as large. Is this correct or am I missing something ? Also about to take the plunge and get an amp to gain 7.1 using the amp to drive the mains there seems to be some suggestions about this creating a mismatch with the center ch - would this be more so with the 1080 than the 1070 due to being more powerfull ?

Steve

[Kevin D]

Yeah, the sub icon on when the sub isn't is a known 'feature'.. Think of it as a sub/digital processing icon. And you are correct, with fronts set to large and sub set to anything but MAX you will not get a sub output.

Power isn't the mismatch issue, it's the 'color' of the amp. I read in the other thread where someone had a 1070 not match the center output of his 1075. Being that they are all Rotel analog amps I don't think it is as noticeable of an issue as he made it. More likely he didn't reset his levels correctly after the new addition.

Kevin D.

[Stev]

Yes if i set sub to max it does work with the large mains - but how does that work ? I thought that max distributed lfe to the sub and front l&r + any filtered signal from speakers configured as small ? In 2ch mode there is only the mains configured as large so where does the additional signal come from ? I'm a bit confused as to why this functions this way. All other avr's I've had have created a sub signal (if a sub was configured) for 2ch unless operating in a bypass or direct mode. Does setting sub to max create extra processing over and above the normal 2ch stereo or 2ch pcm processing modes ?
Any help fully understanding whats happening here would be appreciated.

Thanks

Steve

[Kevin D]

Here's the quicky version:

Sub set to normal
Sub always gets LFE if available.

Anything set to small has the signal below the crossover sent to the sub

Anything set to large gets a full signal, nothing goes to the sub

Sub set to max
Sub always gets LFE if available.

Anything set to small has the signal below the crossover sent to the sub

Anything set to large gets a full signal, in addition any signal below
the crossover point ALSO gets sent to the sub.

So when set to MAX you have bass doubling of any signal below the crossover point of any speaker set to large. Only good for really odd rooms/speakerplacements or people who like the boomy effect it has.

Kevin D.

[Stev]

Thanks for clearing that up for me Kevin. One other question on xovers - with the sub xover setting - is that the highest freq LFE that will be sent to the sub ? That is the way I understand it operates, which in effect makes the xover setting on the sub obsolete if it is set at a higher freq than the sub setting on the 1056. Am I right on that ?
If above is what is actually happens does the sub xover setting also apply to any bass management filtered from the spkrs set to small ? Meaning that the sub xover has to be at least as higher freq as the highest setting on any small spkr. Sorry for so many questions but fully understanding this will make the difference between good and as good as I can get from my system I'm sure.

Steve

[aud19]

Yup if you're using your processor's crossover to control the sub signal you'll want your sub's crossover at it's highest value, or off, if it has the option

[Kevin D]

The LFE signal is un-filtered. The settings for the speakers determine the lowest frequencys sent to them. The setting for the sub determines the highest frequencies sent to it.

So... You could set it where there is missing frequencies or where there is doubled frequencies. Keep in mind that the crossover settings are not brick walls. They slowly taper off. So if your room or speakers boost the 70hz area too much, you could set the speakers to 80 and the sub to 60. This will dip the 70hz area offsetting the boost. Or say you have a dip in 70hz. Set the speakers to 60 and the sub to 80. This will boost the 70hz area.

It takes a good ear, good test equipment, or good drugs to get it right. It's kind of like time travel, you'll go cross-eyed if you think about it too much.

Ask the questions you want, that's what we're here for.

Kevin D.

[Stev]

When you say LFE is un-filtered does that mean that even if the sub xover on the rsx 1056 is set at 80hz and you have a source with LFE at 120hz the sub will still recieve the 120hz signal ?

Steve

[Kevin D]

Correct. I've tested this using an RTA meter. The Dolby spec for LFE is 200hz and below. The test disc I had had a full 20-200hz LFE pink noise track. Reguardless of what the sub crossover was at, the sub still played 20-200hz.

That said, most authors of soundtracks don't put too much over 80-100hz in the LFE track anyway.

Kevin D.

[Stev]

What is the best way to test what is going on with these low frequencies ? I have an spl meter but where do I get some test tones of differing known freq - 40/50/60/70/80 etc ?

Steve

[Kevin D]

You can get all the tones you need here:

http://www.snapbug.ws/sinewaves/

Of course if you have the RS meter, keep in mind the low frequency portion of it is off. So to get close results you need to find a calibration sheet that shows how far off it is at every frequency.

Searching for 'Behringer Feedback Destroyer' should get you the spreadsheet. It will also open your mind to a whole lot more confusion. I'm using a Behringer DSP unit that does what the feedback destoyer does plus has an RTA meter. Using that with my calibrated mic, I can see the whole spectrum at once with full-band pink noise.

Kevin D.