N800, Classe CA 2200 enough power? or CAM 400 way to go?

[Ash]

Hi guys,

I'm currently researching for an amp to buy for the N800s speakers, the system will be placed in a dedicated room 16ftX15ft soon.

I'm very interested in Classe and I'm considering which of Classe amps to buy. In the mentioned room size, would the CA 2200 with 200w of power be enough to drive the 800s, or do I need the 400w that CAM 400 offer for the 800s to shine and give thier best?

Im trying to get good bang for the buck but I also want to get the system right.

I listen 80% stereo music and 20% movies & games.

Thanks for help

[wettou]

Hi guys, I'm currently researching for an amp to buy for the N800s speakers, the system will be placed in a dedicated room 16ftX15ft soon. I'm very interested in Classe and I'm considering which of Classe amps to buy. In the mentioned room size, would the CA 2200 with 200w of power be enough to drive the 800s, or do I need the 400w that CAM 400 offer for the 800s to shine and give thier best? Im trying to get good bang for the buck but I also want to get the system right. I listen 80% stereo music and 20% movies & games. Thanks for help

If you have the cash go with CAM400 or try Electrocompaniet Nemo 600 or for a lot lot less cash go with Emotiva XPA-1

[sikoniko]

If you listen to them at full range, you would definately benefit from having the CA-M400's. If you cross them over at say 80Hz for everything and let your sub do the heavy lifting you would be fine.

Getting the CA-2200 isn't bad, and would definately drive the 800D. You just might notice them sound fuller and quicker with the more power.

[Ash]

Thanks guys, It seems that the Cam 400 are more appropriate for the 800 even though the room is a reletively small. They will also be a better long trem solution. Prob is they cost double!

Has anyone compared the two amps using 800s?

[DM3000 Owner]

I have almost identical speakers as you.

If budget is a concern check out one of the older offerings from Classe. I am using CAM 350's and they work quite well. About $3800 to $4500 depending on age. Occasionally less.

You can also look at the CA400 which is a few years older and rated at 400/800 wpc. They are quite reasonable.

Here is a link to one:

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1237588287&/Classe-CA400-One-Owner-Mint-Co

[Ash]

Guys, need your help please, not sure what to do. I have two options to choose from (I'm only considring buying new):

1 -CAM 400 route: I would be spending on the amps more than what I paid for the speakers (which I bought used). I would then have to live with a bad preamp (currently using Yamaha receiver as preamp) for a while, then when I have money I buy Classe CP 500. In this route I would be spending much more on the amplification than the speakers.

2- CA2200 + CP500: In this case I would be immediately done with the amplification, and the combo is cheaper than 2XCAM 400, plus amplification is close to what I have spent on the speakers, therefore, the spending on the entire system is balanced.

I'm more inclined towards option 2, because of less money I have to spend, balance of spending between compnents (I dont want to spend on the amp 1.5 times what I paid for the speakers) and I will be having the system almost done immediately.

Also, the room that I have the speakers in is relatively small 16ft X 15ft, which means I can't crank it up that much.

My only fear is that I go with the 200watts option, and find the performance significantly lacking in bass, as my listening is entirly full range stereo.

Will I be giving up so much with route 2? Do you think the CAM 400 is necessary and is a wiser choice? Does the CA2200 have what it takes to drive N800?

Help!

You comments are appreciated

Thanks

[DM3000 Owner]

Guys, need your help please, not sure what to do. I have two options to choose from (I'm only considring buying new):

1 -CAM 400 route: I would be spending on the amps more than what I paid for the speakers (which I bought used). I would then have to live with a bad preamp (currently using Yamaha receiver as preamp) for a while, then when I have money I buy Classe CP 500. In this route I would be spending much more on the amplification than the speakers.

2- CA2200 + CP500: In this case I would be immediately done with the amplification, and the combo is cheaper than 2XCAM 400, plus amplification is close to what I have spent on the speakers, therefore, the spending on the entire system is balanced.

I'm more inclined towards option 2, because of less money I have to spend, balance of spending between compnents (I dont want to spend on the amp 1.5 times what I paid for the speakers) and I will be having the system almost done immediately.

Also, the room that I have the speakers in is relatively small 16ft X 15ft, which means I can't crank it up that much.

My only fear is that I go with the 200watts option, and find the performance significantly lacking in bass, as my listening is entirly full range stereo.

Will I be giving up so much with route 2? Do you think the CAM 400 is necessary and is a wiser choice? Does the CA2200 have what it takes to drive N800?

Help!

You comments are appreciated

Thanks

If you are only considering buying new and will be stuck using a receiver for a preamp so that you can get power amps with enough power to drive your speakers you may have bought too much speaker to fit in with your other buying criteria. 8O

If you reason for buying new is a concern over warranty and service look at Bryston 7B ST's for about $2800 in 9/10 condition and about 10 years of warranty left. They are outstanding amps. Otherwise, get the new CA-M400's but don't complain that you have $18,000 to $20,000 into your speakers and amps and someone else has a $10,000 system that sounds much better. I'm not trying to be rude but you are really painting yourself into a corner.

[Ash]

Thanks for the reply DM.

If you are only considering buying new and will be stuck using a receiver for a preamp so that you can get power amps with enough power to drive your speakers you may have bought too much speaker to fit in with your other buying criteria.

Maybe I did. But the plan was to build the system in increments. When I bought the 800, I knew that I can't buy everything immediately, so I thought I would compromise until I get the full system, and I always have wanted 800s.

If you reason for buying new is a concern over warranty and service look at Bryston 7B ST's for about $2800 in 9/10 condition and about 10 years of warranty left. They are outstanding amps.

That's not the reason why, I bought the 800s used, so I have no problem with used or concerns over warranty. Its just that I don't live in the USA and the electricity where I come from is 220v, therefore I don't have access to a good second hand market.

Otherwise, get the new CA-M400's but don't complain that you have $18,000 to $20,000 into your speakers and amps and someone else has a $10,000 system that sounds much better. I'm not trying to be rude but you are really painting yourself into a corner.

Due to limited options I am already in a corner! So your opinion is to get the CA-M400 in the short term even though the system would not sound great until I get a preamp.

[Orb]

Ash are you in the UK?
If so your best bet could be to look for good amplification that is ex-demo from the various dealers that are say within 50miles of your location.
Check out dealers from the list of Absolute Sounds (for Krell,etc), and do same for Classe.
Seems more dealers are getting better at listing ex-demo gear on the web they want to sell, but usually means visiting their websites or even giving them a friendly call.

Also only you can tell how much specification you need from your amp and this depends upon many aspects beyond just room size.
If you do not sit and listen to music intensely (no reading, no chatting, etc) would you necessarily miss the dynamics and control the CAMs give over the 2200?
Your best bet is to hear both amps at low, average listening, and also loud sound levels.
How large is your room btw and how far away do you sit?
Cheers
Orb

[dknightd]

I think it really depends on how you want to procede.
1) You could buy the CAM400 now and get an immediate benefit, then when you could afford it you could replace the preamp and get another boost.
2) Or you could buy the 2200 and preamp now and get an big improvement right away.

The problem with 1) is it costs more, and you never know how long you might have to wait to replace the yamaha. The problem with 2) is you will always wonder if replacing the 2200 with bigger will make an improvement.

Perhaps you can compare your speakers (or the Classes dealers 800s) with both amps to see if you notice a difference (you may not, in which case the decision is easier).

[ShadowZA]

I support dknightd's post.

There is no right or wrong here. It's a personal decision. Such is the nature of the beast. Listening yourself would be the critical factor in the decision-making process.

Good luck & keep us posted. :T

[DM3000 Owner]

[QUOTE=Ash]Thanks for the reply DM.

That's not the reason why, I bought the 800s used, so I have no problem with used or concerns over warranty. Its just that I don't live in the USA and the electricity where I come from is 220v, therefore I don't have access to a good second hand market.

QUOTE]

Ash,

I didn't realize that you were in the UK. I could not figure out why you would buy a used speaker and not a used amp.

Is there any decent secondary market out there? In USA prices you can get great pair of amps for about $3000 to $4000 and a great preamp for about $1200 to $2500, and a great CD Player for about $1000 an up. That would complete your system for the price of the CA M400's (at least until you decide to get into vinyl). :E

[Orb]

Hi DM,
I can confirm there is a healthy ex-demo market from the larger dealers over here in the UK, and it is possible to find a good buy.
It is usually a matter of going through the dealer list at Class/distributor and then checking each dealer.
This is what I did, and no harm asking them if they have any current ex-demo or some scheduled to come up.

Cheers
Orb

[Ash]

Thanks a lot everyone, I thought a lot about this and I think that if I go the CA2200 route, it won't be a very wise decision. I need to do this once and it has to be right.

So, as most of you have pointed out, and I started doing this, I will research the second hand market further and try to obtain something suitable for the N800, even if it takes a little more time and effort.

I will keep you guys posted, thanks for kicking some sense into me. I was becoming hasty which never ends well.

[wettou]

Thanks a lot everyone, I thought a lot about this and I think that if I go the CA2200 route, it won't be a very wise decision. I need to do this once and it has to be right. So, as most of you have pointed out, and I started doing this, I will research the second hand market further and try to obtain something suitable for the N800, even if it takes a little more time and effort. I will keep you guys posted, thanks for kicking some sense into me. I was becoming hasty which never ends well.

Too bad CAM400 would have been much better except for your wallet :lol:

[Ash]

Too bad CAM400 would have been much better except for your wallet :lol:

CAM 400 and a resulting empty wallet + divorce is still a possibility so lets see how it goes. Ahhhh, the things we have to go through for good sound :lol:

[SoCalCM]

I have the 802Ds and the CA2200. My dealer was trying to talk me into upgrading to the CAM400s and was going to give me a good trade in for the 2200. Still would have been a lot of money but I could have done it. So I did a side by side audition of the 400s v. the 2200 for hours, many different genres of music. This saved me over $5K -- the difference was so slight there was no reason to spend the money. The 2200 is a fabulous amp for the money. I would strongly recommend you do the same thing if you can. I suspect you will find that the 2200 is all the amp you need.

[wettou]

CAM 400 and a resulting empty wallet + divorce is still a possibility so lets see how it goes. Ahhhh, the things we have to go through for good sound :lol:

Not worth all that trouble stay with the cheaper ones until you can upgrade to the Boulder at $80,000 a pair :T

[SoCalCM]

Agreed. Boulder kicks ass! But make sure your floors are strong enough to hold the weight.

[wettou]

Agreed. Boulder kicks ass! But make sure your floors are strong enough to hold the weight.

Yes and also win the lottery :B

[Ash]

Not worth all that trouble stay with the cheaper ones until you can upgrade to the Boulder at $80,000 a pair :T[/img]

Nice amps, all I have to do is save up for 25 years and I will be set :T

[planitismetal]

CAM 400 and a resulting empty wallet + divorce is still a possibility so lets see how it goes. Ahhhh, the things we have to go through for good sound :lol:

You must be more cleaver... Give your wife 500-1000$ for shoes or handbags, and no divorce no nothing!! She will love you more... So, CA-M400, connected with 30$ interconnects and after 6-8 months, buy nice interconnects without your wife knows anything (sorry for my english!!!).... :T :T

[Ash]

You must be more cleaver... Give your wife 500-1000$ for shoes or handbags, and no divorce no nothing!! She will love you more... So, CA-M400, connected with 30$ interconnects and after 6-8 months, buy nice interconnects without your wife knows anything (sorry for my english!!!).... :T :T

Hahaha, thats a good plan :lol:

[Ash]

Guys what do you think about McIntosh MC602, at 600w it seems to have enough beef for the 800s, did anyone check this amp out? To me, it seems like a good candidate.

Also people keep mentioning Electrocompaniet Nemo, has anyone tried these amps before? Wettou, you seem to know these amps, how did you find them. I didn't hear much about them, but have read somewhere that they were made for B&W N801.

The Nemo is expensive but the Electrocompaniet AW400 monoblocks is better priced. Any experience with these.

Thanks

[Orb]

Ash,
sorry if your just looking for a short list before auditioning, but to me it looks like your considering purchasing blind.
From my own experience with cheap-mid-and reference tier amps you really do need to listen to the amps with the speaker and take a diverse amount of music that you love and also that you hear niggles with.

You will be surprised but at the high end these do resolve niggles better than the lower tier amps, however their presentation is usually subtly different whether resolving the niggles or presentation of the recorded music.
For me in the end there is only one manufacturer at the cost I was looking to pay that did everything I wanted (and this means I very much doubt I will replace it for many years), but if I purchased blind I would had missed it.

If interested the amp I used for 803s is Chord Electronics SPM 1200E, reasonably priced in UK when compared to Krell,etc.
Chord also sell very similar pro amps to some of the biggest studios in the world.
Hope you find a few good dealers within driving distance of where you live (I go as far away as 50 miles).

Cheers
Orb

[wettou]

Also people keep mentioning Electrocompaniet Nemo, has anyone tried these amps before? Wettou, you seem to know these amps, how did you find them. I didn't hear much about them, but have read somewhere that they were made for B&W N801.

The Nemo is expensive but the Electrocompaniet AW400 monoblocks is better priced. Any experience with these. Thanks

Yes I listen to both of them the Nemo and the AW400 while in Europe many years ago with a pair of 801N and they were outstanding very pricey and also I heard quality is not that great hence the two year warranty!! :cry:Compare that to Bryston and 20 years warranty!!

Also I want to try the Emotiva XPA-1 them seem like great value for the money :B

Also just as a reminder since we all tend to forget myself included:

For best Sound Quality:

1. Best recording on SACD, CD or Blu Ray music
2. Best speakers one can afford (70% gear budget)
3. Room, (size and dimension and treated properly)

If those three are met the rest just need to be of quality without having to break the bank Now I realize that I like to look at my equipment which is why I like well designed and constructed electronics:B

4. Amplifers
5. Pre-Pro
6. Source, CD players
7. Cables are a commodity not a neckless

Having said that has anyone experience with Rives Audio?