Denon vs. classe & rotel. My opinion

[WI Rotel]

But must you not factor in other variables other than power alone? Like flatter frequency response or maybe a lesser amp will mask finer details more if the components it's built with are lesser quality. Maybe higher grade amps pass the signal less touched and more pure regardless of power ratings making finer details more audible? (Note: I did say "maybe" hehe)

Anyhow, I'd like to see crytklmass get his hands on some Emotiva stuff and test since he seems less bias toward name/price and more willing to give a fair comparison on actual performance and has experience with a wide range of gear.

Essentially all amplifiers deliver a flat frequency response below and far above the audible range, thus, most are, from that point of view, essentially perfect. Another spec not to worry about is signal to noise, they are all well over 100dB. Damping factor is another not too important guide since it a single point in measurement is not a very helpful measure. Again the critical point is matching the amp to the speakers. If you have very inefficient speakers make sure its matched accordingly specially in an HT setup where the burden on the amp is exponentially more difficult. If the speakers are very efficient most amps and even some good receivers should be up to the job even at very loud power levels. The advantage of the "SUMO" amps is that they will drive anything with ease and thus without audible distortion.
There is no magic to amp design ( alot of guys make their own)specifically when price is not a variable. The trick is making and amp that delivers like the big expensive "folk" without breaking the bank. With traditional amplifier design the amount of current available from the ransformers plus the number of power transistors are a good guide to its oveall capabilities, ergo big and fat is good. With the new computer switched amps gauging its capacity is a little more complicated since the big and heavy paradigm does not apply.
In the old times of stereo and vinyl, tube amps were the rage (to some they still are) some of those amps barely broke 30W however they had prodigius current capacity (as the arcing glow in the tubes was apt to show).
Hopefully the advent of Blueray with its exceptional uncompressed sound will finally put the nails on the vinyl insanity.
I had my vinylphile buddy in for a little bluray opera the other night, the next day he had a blueray on order for his Creek/Monitor audio based system, he simply couldn't believe what he was hearing!!!!

[Alaric]

Hopefully the advent of Blueray with its exceptional uncompressed sound will finally put the nails on the vinyl insanity.

Or not.

[WI Rotel]

Thats pretty nice in the champagne color too. Avail in Europe only I believe.

















As far as this combo, I wouldnt worry about bridging it, using it for whatever. It was designed just for that.

Here are some quotes from Deonons Director of Product Development, Jeff Talmadge




Also if anyone cares to read more about this...

http://www.listenup.com/content/part...dge.feb.08.php

Now that is what I call a SUMO WRESTLER :B :T Holy transistors Batman 8O

[WI Rotel]

Or not.

I wouldn't worry too much, I still have to hear a good music only blueray.
I have a couple and they were pretty lame. Like eveything, the best possible media cannot do anything with a crappy original recording. Even worse, like HD video, HD audio lays bare any shortcommings were easy to hide before.
For those audiophiles that want to hear the possibilities of HD audio I strongly recommend auditioning the street festival scene from Opus arte La Boheme. Its as good (and probably better) than being there. Simply friggin unbelievable! Some diapers might also be in order because it could easily make you poo your pants :rofl: This stuff makes all other recording formats seem like quaint 20th century "antiques"!

http://www.opusarte.com/pages/product.asp?ProductID=173

[MikeFL52]

Do not under estimate Customer Service in the equation of choosing a manufacturer. Denon makes fine products, I have a 3800 BDCI bluray player, and in general it operates fine. However communicating with the Denon USA customer service either via email is terrible, it's just like first level IT support without having any higher level support available in the US. All update requests have to go back to Japan.

All modern pre/pros will have to have updates since they are really more like computers with specialized chips. Some manufacturers bring out new products all the time, others choose to upgrade their current products, the question I would ask is how much support am I going to have when my product is no longer the latest model?

Maybe with their flagship pre/pro Denon will not bring out a new model for quite some time and therefore support the current one for many years, but this would always be a concern for me.

I have an Anthem D1 pre/pro and after many years I can still get regular updates. I can also upgrade it to be equivalent to their D2v2 (at a cost obviously). I am not sure that this would be the case with the Denon.

I am not criticizing their product, just questioning the long term customer support from Denon.

[sikoniko]

Do not under estimate Customer Service in the equation of choosing a manufacturer. Denon makes fine products, I have a 3800 BDCI bluray player, and in general it operates fine. However communicating with the Denon USA customer service either via email is terrible, it's just like first level IT support without having any higher level support available in the US. All update requests have to go back to Japan.

All modern pre/pros will have to have updates since they are really more like computers with specialized chips. Some manufacturers bring out new products all the time, others choose to upgrade their current products, the question I would ask is how much support am I going to have when my product is no longer the latest model?

Maybe with their flagship pre/pro Denon will not bring out a new model for quite some time and therefore support the current one for many years, but this would always be a concern for me.

I have an Anthem D1 pre/pro and after many years I can still get regular updates. I can also upgrade it to be equivalent to their D2v2 (at a cost obviously). I am not sure that this would be the case with the Denon.

I am not criticizing their product, just questioning the long term customer support from Denon.

that is a good point. A company like Denon, who brings out a new model every year or so might not be ask likely to support issues as quickly as technology is changing and might give the answer... this bug is fixed in our newest model. please purchase it to resolve your problems.

at this price point, most customers want to have something that will last a few years, not something that is swapped out annually.

[Glen B]

Hopefully the advent of Blueray with its exceptional uncompressed sound will finally put the nails on the vinyl insanity.

Why must vinyl lovers be "insane" for liking what they like ? Why must the ugly head of this digital versus analog monster always be raised ? There are people who would call you insane for the kind of money you've spent on your system. I love a lot of my CD/SACD collection but I also maintain a vinyl playback system. A lot of the older music I like is either just not available on CD/SACD or the reissue is inferior to the vinyl counterpart.

[alebonau]

Congrats !

An AVP owner here and really given all thats out and anything on the horizon I think you have chosen extremely well.

congrats on checking out the options as well and going with what sounded best to your ears.

if you look at the avp owners thread and system gallery on avs you'll see many denon + B&W owners who are quite happy with their purchase.

And many other owners too with all sorts of varied brands and systems and with denons at their heart.

I wouldnt bother with the blinkered types who care more of the brand name on the box than the sound that comes out of it. And worse still put up with over priced bug ridden product that is lacking in capability, still unfinished and to top it off have to pay top dollar only to be beta testers for the privilege ! :E

I'm sure you'll enjoy your avp. it was bug free from day one. And even then continues to be supported with updates for enhancements and bonus features which says a lot for the quality and flexibility of its design.

And many years of pleasure you should get with the denons. Like the friend of mine who owned the original denon flaghip avp and poa that stood him well for the last decade until updating to the current denon avp. The fully featured design, cutting edge technology and the superb build on the denons should not have you worrying about upgrading from it for quite a while.

Well it certainly left me not wanting for anything else :B

Enjoy ! Enjoy !

ps some great pics in this thread too, good on you guys for posting

[alebonau]

Why must vinyl lovers be "insane" for liking what they like ? Why must the ugly head of this digital versus analog monster always be raised ? There are people who would call you insane for the kind of money you've spent on your system. I love a lot of my CD/SACD collection but I also maintain a vinyl playback system. A lot of the older music I like is either just not available on CD/SACD or the reissue is inferior to the vinyl counterpart.

as a vinyl lover myself I cant for the life of me understnd whats insane about it either :B

And I too own both CD/SACD and Blu-ray discs as well. but doesnt stop me enjoying vinyl. and your right I'd have a hard time finding a lot of the music I have on vinyl on any other format. And as far as compression, there are some superb vinyl releases with the digital version actually sounding a lot more compressed by comparison

[Orb]

Hey alebonau good to see you around.

Do you use yours bridged (how many channels bridged if so)/bi-amped/as is and how long have you had it?

I am sure it is a great unit and my only thoughts come down to the bridging/etc, which applies to all amps and not just Denon.

Cheers
Orb

[Race Car Driver]

Hey alebonau good to see you around.

Do you use yours bridged (how many channels bridged if so)/bi-amped/as is and how long have you had it?

I am sure it is a great unit and my only thoughts come down to the bridging/etc, which applies to all amps and not just Denon.

Cheers
Orb

Why are you so hung up on that? This is not the first home amp to offer a bridging option.

[Orb]

Why are you so hung up on that? This is not the first home amp to offer a bridging option.

Because every amp I have known has warnings about limiting the ohms if they offer a bridged configuration, and the fact as I mentioned it massively increases voltage and current not just doubles that has to be handled somehow.
So when you consider the capability of the voltage rail or output stage it does make it more, well an area of consideration especially when using speakers such as the B&W 80xx range.

Check out how many Rotel/Nad/Arcam home amps offer a bridged configuration and if so with what restriction.
I am not trying to make waves, hence why I asked someone else who has tested a fair amount of amps and has the Denon.

Cheers
Orb

[Alaric]

or the reissue is inferior to the vinyl counterpart.

Guns N Roses first two albums don't sound all that great on vinyl-but about 1000X better than CD. :T

[alebonau]

Hey alebonau good to see you around.

Do you use yours bridged (how many channels bridged if so)/bi-amped/as is and how long have you had it?

I am sure it is a great unit and my only thoughts come down to the bridging/etc, which applies to all amps and not just Denon.

Cheers
Orb

hi orb an avp owner but I dont run the poa.

if you listen to this podcast by gene desala of audiohoilcs,

http://www.avrant.com/?p=311

you'll see he tried it bridged, unbridged and no matter what he tried he couldnt get the poa to 'break a sweat'. according to denonjeff - jeff talmadge in this interview he said denon went into a lot of trouble in design in this amp to make sure its unbreakable.

so yeah as racing driver says I wouldnt be too worried in whihc way you use this amp. try it any way you like and run it what sounds best to your ears

[WI Rotel]

Guns N Roses first two albums don't sound all that great on vinyl-but about 1000X better than CD. :T

No arguments here, there is a lot of crap out on CD!!!! That doesn't make vinyl any better, however. It is still an inherently inferior technology. Particularly from the archival point of view. The clicks pops and hisses of vinyl are not part of its charm they are part of what is a technology that has been obsolete for 30 years. The fact that very bad CD's are produced by an industry that, for the most part, cares little about its product doesn't make vinyl "the format". Its like reverting to using old carbon batteries because you bought some bum lithium ones!!!! As I have said even with HD audio formats you can get some boners but when the medium is exploited to its potential the differences are nothing short of staggering. HD audio when done right, the audio mantra is finally fulfilled , its the same as being there! Even better, there is no need for 20K turntalbes and 5K styluses, essentially all players regardless of cost provide you with essentially identical sound.

[Alaric]

I was simply pointing out that some of my collection sounds better on vinyl. Include Led Zeppelin , also. An awful lot of analog recordings just didn't transition well to digital , and the master tapes will never again provide the music they did years ago , regardless of production , due to age and wear. Some vinyl is the best playback medium we'll ever have of some classics. IMO

[PewterTA]

Okay so I'm so confused as to why this is even a topic?!?!

I would sure hope that a ~$10K system would beat out a ~$4K.

If the Rotel setup sounded similar to the Denon setup, then why would anyone upgrade and spend so much more on it.

Am I getting this wrong?

[wgriel]

I was simply pointing out that some of my collection sounds better on vinyl. Include Led Zeppelin , also. An awful lot of analog recordings just didn't transition well to digital , and the master tapes will never again provide the music they did years ago , regardless of production , due to age and wear. Some vinyl is the best playback medium we'll ever have of some classics. IMO

I agree - and technological limitations aside, some vinyl sounds absolutely stunning and lifelike. I have some pressings that are extremely quiet. So quiet that friends can't believe that I'm playing an LP rather than a CD.

I certainly have some awfully noisy ones, too, but even some of those are still more enjoyable to me than a dynamically compressed CD. The other thing is that much of the music that I love will never be released in any kind of HD format, and vinyl remains the best (or only) format for some of this.

[emig5m]

I agree - and technological limitations aside, some vinyl sounds absolutely stunning and lifelike. I have some pressings that are extremely quiet. So quiet that friends can't believe that I'm playing an LP rather than a CD.

I certainly have some awfully noisy ones, too, but even some of those are still more enjoyable to me than a dynamically compressed CD. The other thing is that much of the music that I love will never be released in any kind of HD format, and vinyl remains the best (or only) format for some of this.

What about more recent recordings? Is it possible that a Vinyl release could better the CD release (different/better mastering)? I'm kinda curious to try some Vinyls of more recent music just to see... And also, why do they "dynamically compress" CD's anyway?

[Alaric]

What about more recent recordings? Is it possible that a Vinyl release could better the CD release (different/better mastering)? I'm kinda curious to try some Vinyls of more recent music just to see... And also, why do they "dynamically compress" CD's anyway?

A lot of recent vinyl recordings are still mastered from analog tapes. I haven't done any real A/B with digitally mastered stuff regarding vinyl vs. CD , but my experience tells me an analog master sounds better on vinyl. It may be my equipment (geared towards analog) , or my personal preference , but I do have CDs that sound great. My "reference" example is Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon SACD. Supposed to be a stellar example of the digital arts. It sounds fantastic. My original vinyl version sounds better. To me.
When we reach the higher end of the recording/producing arts , we may be stuck with preference and the format of the master to decide.
Have we hijacked this thread enough?

[emig5m]

Have we hijacked this thread enough?

Not yet...lol. Dark Side Of The Moon is old, I'm talking about music from at least the 90's and up with Vinyl releases. I'm mainly wondering if they put forth effort into releasing a Vinyl today when it's basically a dead format (to the masses) that they possibly would put more effort into the mastering/end result of it since it's more a specialty format? For example, Metallica started releasing Vinyls recently of newer albums, could it be possible that the sound quality could be better than that of the CD counterpart? I don't have any way to play a Vinyl, but I might be temped to if more effort was put into the Vinyl releases....

But still, why do they half-ass so many CD releases (like the latest compressed to distortion Metallica's Death Magnetic - or even a re-release of an old Vinyl) when the CD is capable of so much more? Why even waste a CD? lol. :lol: It should be up to the end users system how well it sounds and not demolished up front! :T

[Alaric]

But still, why do they half-ass so many CD releases

I'm mainly wondering if they put forth effort into releasing a Vinyl today when it's basically a dead format (to the masses) that they possibly would put more effort into the mastering/end result of it since it's more a specialty format?

I think asked and answered. BTW , "the masses" are responsible for communism , CDs , VHS , and Hollywood.

[wgriel]

Not yet...lol. Dark Side Of The Moon is old, I'm talking about music from at least the 90's and up with Vinyl releases. I'm mainly wondering if they put forth effort into releasing a Vinyl today when it's basically a dead format (to the masses) that they possibly would put more effort into the mastering/end result of it since it's more a specialty format? For example, Metallica started releasing Vinyls recently of newer albums, could it be possible that the sound quality could be better than that of the CD counterpart? I don't have any way to play a Vinyl, but I might be temped to if more effort was put into the Vinyl releases....

This does seem to be the case. It seems that several new recordings are released in CD and vinyl, and often, the vinyl sounds better. Usually the difference has to do with excessive dynamic range compression on the CD. I think that the labels (or the musicians) treat the vinyl release with more care because it is a specialty niche product.

But still, why do they half-ass so many CD releases (like the latest compressed to distortion Metallica's Death Magnetic - or even a re-release of an old Vinyl) when the CD is capable of so much more? Why even waste a CD? lol. :lol: It should be up to the end users system how well it sounds and not demolished up front! :T

It is disheartening isn't it? The CD is capable of so much dynamic range (much more than vinyl) and yet rarely is that capability exploited with any kind of rock or pop music today. Of course, Jazz and classical are exceptions here and well mastered CDs can sound amazing when you can find them.

[Alaric]

The CD is capable of so much dynamic range (much more than vinyl)

That may be less than accurate. It's my understanding that vinyl has a greater dynamic range than CD. I know , from my collection of vinyl , compared to the CD copies of the same albums , that vinyl has far more dynamic range than the CD.

[WI Rotel]

Hey there are some fabulous analog recordings. Some Ella Verve masters from the 40's are still amazing because they were transferred to digital bit to bit when digital was in its infancy. Unfortunately, there is a whole lot of music out there that is essentially lost lying in some vault somewhere. In my opinion a lot of the analog magic is not whether it was better or not as a recording medium, rather that its own inherent audible flaws are actually what make it good in the ear of its admirers. Its not that it a better virtual reproduction of the live music which most people never hear anyway, but that the additional imperfections of the medium actually added "sound" that is endearing to the listener.

[WI Rotel]

Okay so I'm so confused as to why this is even a topic?!?!

I would sure hope that a ~$10K system would beat out a ~$4K.

If the Rotel setup sounded similar to the Denon setup, then why would anyone upgrade and spend so much more on it.

Am I getting this wrong?

Absolutely wrong! :E Unfortunately the amount of cash that you spend in audio has very little to do with excellence, in the audiophile arena, like in all "luxury" stuff an items price is absolutely no guarantee of excellence, on the contrary to many price is simply a bragging right regardless of any real additional value or performance (the empreror has no clothes). Of course that is not to say that better stuff usually does cost more, but you can get excellent stuff without mortgaging your house. :T

[Alaric]

but you can get excellent stuff without mortgaging your house.

That's good to know 'cause I don't own my house! :B

[Ken49r]

Post#37

Originally Posted by crytklmass I used my Rotel rsp 1068, then did the same test with my old Denon AVR4800. these were just the processors, I just switched my speaker cable to the different amps, I wanted to have a controlled audition.

Originally Posted by Briz Vegas I do question using the humble Rotel pre-amp for auditioning all those amps. I would have gone for a similarly high quality preamp. Nothing wrong with the Rotel, but everything is built to a price. This exercise is not about getting good sound, it is about achieving exceptional sound quality.

I agree with Briz. crytklmass, this is why I believe that you didn't hear the improvement from some amps that you tried out. Don't get me wrong, Rotel makes nice gear, and in fact, I owned the RSP-1069 and RMB-1077 for a while.

I do agree with this post and am curious why others have not chimed in.

However, that being said, using the 1068 and Denon to do the test, your processors were the bottleneck and you weren't getting everything out of the amps. The Rotel can't produce the fine detail that some of the amps can take advantage of. That's why after a certain point, they sounded the same.

But in the end, I'm glad you're happy with your system.

I agree with this post and am curious why others have not chimed in.

I had my Rotel RMB-1095 in my system connected to Onkyo AVR and quite honestly when I A/B the 1095 to the Onkyo onboard amps there was not much of a comparison. When I switched out the Onkyo for the Rotel RSP-1069 I finally heard a difference. And a big difference it was.

The pre/pro used definitely effects the sound you hear.

[Mark-n-b]

question? the denon rep said I can bridge my fronts for 300wpc, then buy another poa-a1hdc1 and bi-amp them for 600wpc to all 3 fronts. is this possible?

Yes, you can do something like this:




...bridged, balanced and bi-amped - but as you say, you would need a second POA, although bi-amping does not give you 600 watts I don't think.

This runs the 802Ds extremely well.

[Race Car Driver]

Man, that looks like an awesome setup, the more and more I read about it and look it over the more tempting it is.


You still have 2 channels left!

Bridged and bi-amped. Id love to hear that setup!

Dont you need to flip the toggle switch on the bottom to "bridged" though?

Have a pic of all the gear from the front? :T

[KyaDawn]

Can anyone explain what exactly is bi-amping, especially in relation to this Denon unit? What exactly are the benefits of bi-amping? I've done a search on Google but the answers are pretty varied. A lot of people say don't bother or that it might damage your speakers while others say it's a good idea.

For example, if you're bi-amping using this Denon, does that mean you'll be feeding the speaker 300 watts instead of 150?

[style]

For me the sound dont will be so great..... sorry I dont like a bi.amp "simply"
.....and this 2x poa in bi.amp, bridged...No thank.



I see only a good speaker cable. nothing more.


Sorry to all the Denon fans but a mid-end is always a mid end.....

I can bi.amd a Classe with a Mcintosh??? Sure.... what will be the song???

hay, hay, hay... the little chemical games
style

[Race Car Driver]

Bi-amping is generally referred to as using two amps for 1 speaker unit.

In this case, the Denon is a 10channel amp, he is using 8 of those channels.

Of those 8, he is bridging those 8 down to 4 usuable channels (combining the 2 into 1)

Those 4 bridged channels are powering the lower bass woofers of the 802Ds and the mid/tweet of the 802Ds. All independently.

Now some would argue bi-amping is a waste without the internal crossovers removed from the speakers. But we will leave that for another topic

This Denon breaks down like this.

150X10 @ 8 ohms
300X10 @ 4 ohms

300X5 @ 8 ohms bridged
500x5 @ 4 ohms bridged

Maximum output is 1200 watts bridged per channel with a 4 ohm load.

[Race Car Driver]

For me the sound dont will be so great..... sorry I dont like a bi.amp "simply"
.....and this 2x poa in bi.amp, bridged...No thank.



I see only a good speaker cable. nothing more.


Sorry to all the Denon fans but a mid-end is always a mid end.....

I can bi.amd a Classe with a Mcintosh??? Sure.... what will be the song???

hay, hay, hay... the little chemical games
style

Have you heard this Denon combo? What speakers were they driving?

[style]

Have you heard this Denon combo? What speakers were they driving?

This combo photo I have not ever heard (and I am not interested) ops:
I heard a combo with the 800D when I bought my Classe SSP800&CA5200
the first one after the other ....
and a combo SSPwith 2x5200 biamp -> 800D

Denon with the music that is stopped with the STOP cd player...I was a bad effect ....
the music is "squached ".... the Classe make another signal when STOPED much more natural!!

in HT the Denon have sure a many years experience...but in stereo the songs is very "down", dont at the level from a system from 8k.$ or so like that...

style

[style]

sorry....

the pictures :
are not a 802D?

[wettou]

As long as you like how it sounds all the best to you

[Race Car Driver]

Dug through your old posts Mark, I found a pic I forgot you posted of the Denon combo.

Still love it!

[style]

What for a speaker cable is used in this system?

(is the same as the pictures or?)

-------
Denon & AC-DC metal /hard rock fan?
-----------
well 10 channell (@150watt) and 2only the two Big 802d?
You have a center in program? ops:
and
what I like in this picture ? the lcd not too high from the floor! :T

Style

[alebonau]

Dug through your old posts Mark, I found a pic I forgot you posted of the Denon combo.

Still love it!

~

hi racing driver, a more updated pics from mark here in the

Official Denon AVP and AVP/POA owners systems photo gallery

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14166770#post14166770

mark is one of the inaugural posters in the denon avp owners thread if remember. a big fan of the mighty denon combo

[Race Car Driver]

hi racing driver, a more updated pics from mark here in the

Official Denon AVP and AVP/POA owners systems photo gallery

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14166770#post14166770

mark is one of the inaugural posters in the denon avp owners thread if remember. a big fan of the mighty denon combo

Ahh, nice nice!

Ive seen a few of the Denon threads over there, even the owners thread thats like... 300 pages or whatever. :lol: :E


Thanks, now to browse that picture thread and decide if I want to pick a combo up. Im a sucker for discounts, and having vendor direct from work makes things tempting! :x

[KyaDawn]

Bi-amping is generally referred to as using two amps for 1 speaker unit.

In this case, the Denon is a 10channel amp, he is using 8 of those channels.

Of those 8, he is bridging those 8 down to 4 usuable channels (combining the 2 into 1)

Those 4 bridged channels are powering the lower bass woofers of the 802Ds and the mid/tweet of the 802Ds. All independently.

Now some would argue bi-amping is a waste without the internal crossovers removed from the speakers. But we will leave that for another topic

This Denon breaks down like this.

150X10 @ 8 ohms
300X10 @ 4 ohms

300X5 @ 8 ohms bridged
500x5 @ 4 ohms bridged

Maximum output is 1200 watts bridged per channel with a 4 ohm load.

Thanks Race Car Driver, that's very informative! I've actually been a Denon fan for quite some years as I've always been appreciative of the numerous features their receivers offer, even in the budget models. I have one that I've used for the past 6 years and it had all the features I needed for quite some time and have been very reliable. I've never had any problems with it.

Now that I'm building a new system, my old Denon will be "re-assigned" to the bedroom along with my old system, bar the projector, which sadly will be unused and replaced by a new 1080P PJ. As before, I'm leaning heavily toward getting another Denon as much of my listening will be for HT and they have all the features I want that are unfortunately missing from some of the more expensive "high-end" processors such as all the latest lossless codecs, a plethora of HDMI inputs and outputs, Wi-Fi connectivity which will allow me to download firmware updates and stream music from my laptop, an optional iPod dock, etc., and at a very reasonable price, of course. I'm also quite intrigued by the Audyssey features.

The AVP/POA combo would be ideal, but I don't feel like spending USD$14K on amps right now. Therefore, I've been looking at the 4308A, which is the top-of-the-line integrated receiver that Denon has on offer here in Hong Kong.

With this Denon, however, I know I will still need to get some amps to power my 802Ds. Therefore, I've been looking at the Rotel RB-1092 stereo amp, which will provide 500 wpc and thus I would be using the Denon as just the pre-amp for the fronts, but still be using its 140 wpc for the surrounds. However, I'm also wondering if the Rotel RMB-1095 would be a better option, which at the same price-range will provide 5 channels of 200 wpc to my whole set-up, and therefore avoid using the Denon altogether as an amp. The drawback would be only feeding 200 wpc to the 802Ds.

What do you think would be the best option here, the RB-1092 for 500 wpc to my 802Ds and the Denon's 140 wpc to the surrounds, or the RMB-1095 which will deliver 200 wpc to all five channels?

Keep in mind I have only ordered a 4.0 system (Quadraphonic baby...haha) at the moment with 805Ss as surrounds, as I intend to purchase the HTM2D center speaker later as an upgrade, and probably the ASW825 subwoofer (the ASW855 is not available in Hong Kong, as HK apartments are quite small in general and I'm told by the dealer they don't think there is a big enough market for it).

If I go with the RB-1092 option, do you think I could just bi-amp/bridge the Denon to provide 280 wpc to the center speaker, or would I have to invest in the RB-1091 to power the center channel to better match the RB-1092-driven 802Ds?

If you think the stereo amp is the better way to go, I have also been recommended the Bryston 4B SST stereo amp as an alternative to the Rotel RB-1092 as it is within the same price-range, though it only provides 300 wpc. Any comparisons between the Bryston and the Rotel?

Thanks a lot in advance for your help.

[Mark-n-b]

Hi all,
The Denon combo run the 802Ds very well. I am currenty not using a centre or surrounds as these are being added shortly. The POA is designed so that each amplifier pair is bridged together, and in this mode they are balanced.
My supplier is a Classe dealer, and I heard the speakers through Classe - and what can I say - the sound was amazing. However, the Denon combo ability to drive these speakers gives nothing away to the Classe - but in other ways gives so much more.
As some may recall, I wanted to eventually get a couple of POA-S1 amps and relegate the POA-A1HD to surround and centre. For those that are unaware, the POA-S1 lives on as the Accuphase M-2000 (M-8000) monoblock. Thats right, Accuphase's top of the range amplifier is a Denon design - hardly what I would call Mid-end.

[Mark-n-b]

...Dont you need to flip the toggle switch on the bottom to "bridged" though?..

Hi Mate,

No, when the POA is plugged into the AVP all the switches are overriden and all the amps, inputs etc are configured with the AVP setup menus.

[Mark-n-b]

What for a speaker cable is used in this system?

(is the same as the pictures or?)

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Denon & AC-DC metal /hard rock fan?
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well 10 channell (@150watt) and 2only the two Big 802d?
You have a center in program? ops:
and
what I like in this picture ? the lcd not too high from the floor! :T

Style

The cable is QED silver spiral bi-wire. I also have lots of silver spiral ready for lots of surround speakers! Not really an ACDC fan, I just really liked the t-shirt.