Denon AVR3805 + Rotel RMB1075/1095 combo to drive my B&W's?

[Incognito]

Hello everyone,

I bought the following set of B&W speakers about a year ago:
B&W DM604s3 fronts
B&W DM602s3 rears
B&W LCR600 center

Right now these speakers are driven by a Denon AVR3805. Now I am thinking of buying a Poweramp and using my Denon as a preamp.

Now I hope some of you can help me with awnsering the following questions:
- Will the Denon be a ok preamp, or is the Rotel RSP-1068 a lot better?
- In which extend will the Rotel RMB1095 be better in my application than the Rotel RMB1075, concerning the rather large difference in price?

Thnx a lot for your awnsers and time

Hope to hear from you soon.

[PewterTA]

I went from Yamaha preamp on the same speakers (well DM602x4 for the rears) and added the RMB1095 and it does make a difference. It's hard to say, but it just so much more powerful. Explosions in movies and bass drums and the like come across with a lot more authority than they did before. I also noticed that the size of the sound stage increased. Little different to get used to things, but all positive. The only negative is I was used to the Yamaha being so brighter that the Rotel seemed to sound dull, till I got used to it. I then upgraded the Yamaha to the RSP-1098 and that made a HUGE difference over the yamaha. Brought back all the detail felt I was missing out on (and in truth was missing out with the Yamaha in general as it never produced the sounds). Basically, better in every single aspect.

I imagine the 1068 would do a lot better for you as well. One thing you will definitely notice is much better 2ch reproduction as that's always been Denon's demons... I think you will notice a slight better surround sound with DD/DTS movies as well. Over all it's a step up (noticeable). Especially once you give them all a couple weeks to really breakin/you to get used to them.

I'd say as far as the 1095/1075, the difference will be minimal, I think the 1075 would work as good as the 1095, but the 1095 will have a little more authority over your speakers (so to say). If it's really breaking the bank... the 1075 would do you fine.

Another thing to consider if you ever decide to get into 7ch is the RMB-1077, that things a beast as big as the 1095 (if not bigger) and in a nice small package.

[Dmantis]

When you add a amp to the Denon, you still retain most of the same sound quality that the Denon makes. Adding a external amp as noted above improves on some things.
The rsp1068 will do alot better job in sound quality but doesn't have all the cool features as the 3805. Also doesn't have the same connectability. I would keep your Denon and try the amp , then see if you can borrow a rsp1068 and compare the 2. If it sounds much better and you can live with the features it has , then make the move, if not use your Denon as a preamp.

In a way it would be cool If Denon would make preamps. they would rule the market.

[weijst]

I went from a Marantz reciever (SR5200) to the SR5200 + RMB-1075 combination, to finally end up with a RSP-1068 + RMB-1075 system (speakers remained the same, which were B&W's DM602 S3 back then)

The biggest improvement in sound was when going from the internal amps of the SR5200 to the RMB-1075. To be honoust, the difference between the SR5200 as a pre/pro and the RSP-1068 kinda disappointed me... (This opinion includes 2CH performance).

[Incognito]

Thanks for all of your replies. Still I am wondering what gives the most personal sound; the preamp or the poweramp. Just like weijst pointed out (thnx), the RMB1075 made the biggest improvement for him. Though Weijst, can you also tell me why the upgrade from the Marantz to the Rotel preamp disappointed you?

Btw, PewterTA, I have actually never heard a 7.1 setup (I did hear a 6.1 setup), will it make such a difference in sound to be worth another 2 speakers on my wall? Futher, I guess I'll compare the 1075 & the 1095 too =), it's fun anyways =P

Another question:
Since the Denon AVR3805 is a pretty good amp in it's class, I am very curious how it will hold up against the RSP1068, especially since I heard the Denon actually has better Dac's than the Rotel does (but that might be wrong information). Anyway, is there actually anyone that has found out the difference in sound between the Denon AVR3805 as a pre compared to the RSP1068?

[PewterTA]

The Denon will not compare to the Rotel in terms of sound quality. It's close, but the Rotel I think wins. The DACs on the Denon are newer, not better...that's where the difference is, the 1068 does have older DACs, but they are tried and true DACs that deliver a much better sound. Another point to that is the mechanical relays vs. digital relays...makes a huge difference in sound I'm finding.

The only way to tell the sound difference is to hear them on the same system, but I'll bet you'll stick with the 1068 once you hear it.

I think 7.1 makes a difference if you have the room for it. It fills in the void between the RR and LR speakers and allows you to push those speakers out more towards the sides... Over all it's a better enveloping surround sound. But if your room is smaller, there's not a real benefit and could make the surround stage worse.

I think most people upgrade from their Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, etc... because once they get a powerful amp to push their speakers, it starts to show the limitation of the processor or like in Yamaha's case, the lack of a good preout (well on my model that was the case).

Best thing you can do is go and try to demo both the Denon and the Rotel and see what you find more pleasing. The Rotel, when I first got the 1098, was disappointed in it...but now I'm finding that I like it 100x better than my Yamaha with the way it does sound. It was as if I had never listened to surround sound before. Was amazing. Denon you would not notice as big of a difference as their surround sound is pretty decent...but still not like Rotels.

Rotel will smack the Denon all around on 2ch reproduction if you listen to a lot of music.

[Incognito]

Thanks a lot for your comments. I guess I'm quite a newbie in hifi compared to you; this is my first serious hifi, and next to listening at stores and reading about hifi, I don't have much experience with lots of equipment at home, further, there are still lots of things I need to learn/ want to know =), especially about the more pricey equipment around. So please don't take my comments as cocky, because they are only based on the little experience I have.

My little experience with hifi is mainly caused by my budget as a 22 yo student. I made quite a big step since my last hifi-set (a Harman/kardon receiver w/ a small Infinity hcs speaker set), so great equipment to drive them was quite hard to afford for me. Luckily I'm going to graduate this year, so I'll be making a lot more next year =).

For the room, I have quite a big room, I might post some pictures of my setup soon. The room is 8m x 5,5m, or 24ft x 16,5ft (don’t know where you are from). So I could consider 7.1 speakers… the 602’s aren’t that pricey, but they are quite big hanging at my walls, not too good looking… further, most music I listen to is stereo or 5.1 stereo mode, but of course I could as well use 7.1 stereo for that matter =P. Maybe 6.1 is a good option to make a concession between looks and sound.

I guess you have a good point with the newer vs. the more musical dacs. You are talking about mechanical vs. digital relays; is this in that Rotel uses mechanical relays and Denon digital ones, or the other way around? Because I always thought that digital relays give less coloration to the sounds, which I see as a good thing. This would mean that the most coloration in my system would come from the power amp, in which case the Rotel poweramp will have the biggest effect in coloration.

On the theory of the digital/ mechanical relay. The Denon amp has a Pure Direct mode too for stereo sound… so maybe this could work the same…?

Anyway, I guess the Rotel is in a whole different league, but at this point, the budget is rather important to me, so I am trying to put the issue between the Denon and the Rotel in a different perspective =), hoping my Denon isn’t too bad at all =P. Ofcourse the upgrade to the Rotel poweramp is a good choice in any way =).

Futher, from the specs on the Rotel side, I can’t really find out the difference between the Rotel RSP1068 & 1098, except for the little screen, could you fill me in a bit more on that part?

And last but not least, I’m quite curious about what speakers you have?

Thnx a lot.

Cheers =D

[weijst]

6.1 or 7.1 huh? Ever thought about getting the RSX1056 + RB1070 (or RB1080) combination? An RSP1068 + RMB1075 (or RMB1095) only offers you 5 channels...

If I had to do it all over again, I'd get the RSX1056 + RB1080 offering better 2CH performance, a tuner and amplification for 2 additional channels for about the same price as the RSP1068 + RMB1075 combination...

[Incognito]

I actually liked the Denon better than the RSX1056 when I auditioned them.. I liked the RSX1066 better than the Denon, but this receiver is also double the price. Plus, actually, I don't use a tuner at all, so I guess the 1068 or maybe 1098 (though I still don't know the differences), would be great... though, what's also possible is the RB1080 for the fronts + a bridged RMB1066 for the surround channels... Though, that'll cost me more than a RMB1077, and I'm pretty excited by the comments about that piece, so I might rather buy a 1075 now, upgrading to a 1077 later, or instead adding a 1080...

Anyway, I guess the 1075 is my choice for now seeing my budget, that 1077 would be awesome, but ey, if its twice the price, it's not reasonable to compare. Going to audition it soon, very curious!

thnx for your advice