My comparision of RSP 1098 to Denon AVC A1SE+ (AVR5803) (long)
So the last 2 days I have been listening intensively to the RSP 1098 and my “old” Denon AVC A1SE+ which is more known as AVR 5800+ (with upgrade) in the US.
This comparison does only represent personal view of both units side by side. However I thought it might be interesting to let you guys know how both units compare on a general base, at least this is what I tried to find out.
Manuals
Reading manual of so complex and feature loaded surround devices can be a challenge. I would not give the edge to either of them, if you are looking for something, dig deep enough and are real brave you will find it in either of them. However I am missing a sort of add on manual for the new DPLIIx features on the RSP 1098. An online manual is the least I would expect.
Build Quality
Well, there is no denying it, the Denon takes the opportunity to show what can be understood by “build quality”. Metal everywhere, all knobs, very thick metal side walls and cover where the Rotel used only a standard thin cover. Superior department shielding on the inside of the Denon, like a separate department for the DSP board where the Rotel only used a cover for analogue and digital department together. The Denon clearly has the edge here.
Remotes
My opinion from the very beginning using the Denon touch screen remote was to quickly get a Pronto. There is nothing wrong with a touch screen, but if you cannot customise it correctly or to your needs and get forced to navigate through endless menus until you get to control something than this is a clear let down.
I do not particularly like the Rotel RR 1050 either but at least what you can do with it is direct. Unfortunately there are things you cannot control with this remote so you have to get up again and use the RSP 1098 front panel buttons. So sort of a forces fitness program due to incomplete control possibilities. I surely do not want that! No clear winner here, both are far to be what I want.
Connectivity
Now this is an interesting point! For my needs both units have more than enough inputs and outputs. The Denon has even absolutely useless inputs, like the Denon Link that never will get to pass DSD signals as Denon is not willing to provide any further upgrades for old AVC A1SE+ users. Thanks Denon and please note: I let a company show me the finger only once!
Anyway, some inputs like RF signal for LD-player, phone and headphone are also included.
Which the Rotel lacks. No big deal except for the headphone. Ok, I know what Rotel said about headphone on the units, but do you believe this? Why does the new Rotel stereo amps have headphone plugs? Did they want to make the units sound worse?
Now to a point where the Rotel really shines: Four assignable 12 Volt triggers. Yes! Give me more. No joking, I use all of them and I find it to be one of the most overlooked features. Now I can automatically switch on my Rotel RT 1080, my Parasound HCA 2003 and HCA 806 as well as the sub depending on which mode I want to listen. But four of these should not be the end, future units should have even more to allow to control every other component in the system.
But for now a big plus for including those in the RSP 1098.
Surround Formats
Both have things the other does not have. The Denon has THX 2 and I believe this to be far more than a logo. At least there are some requirements to fulfil to get a THX 2 approval, so maybe the units would be less hissing (in my case) if they would have passed by the Skywalker Ranch.
The Rotel on the other hand has DPLIIx which is a great feature as far as I can tell from my experience with the unit until now. I am not particularly interested in other DSP programs so not comment on those. Regarding Rotels XS, I am not sure what it is compared to the matrix mode you could setup on the Denon to make a 5.1 source listenable in 7.1 but to my ears it is not really a big deal in difference as far as decoding goes.
Setup Procedure of Features and BM (including comments to the TFT display)
Setup on both units is rather straight. Once you found out how to navigate the menus, now big deal on either of the units. The Rotel is however much more complex. Very good is that you can assign a default listening mode to each input. The Denon did just remember the last mode set for each input, so not quite the same in terms of customisation possibilities. Neither could you assign the only trigger on the Denon where the Rotel gives you every choice you could ever imagine. Input labelling is great, but seven characters a bit short for my taste. Bass management. A chapter of its own! Really great implementation with different crossover point for the speakers. Adjustable sub level for different surround format? Even better!
The Rotel really shines here and I am most pleased.
Now that we have a TFT screen on this unit is…well, I don’t know. Before I had the unit I found the idea real cool, but I have to face the fact that the implementation is rather buggy and not well over thought. A simple example is the fact that when I change the listening level the TFT screen will indicate this, which in fact is what it should do, but why does it have to do this right on the bottom of the screen in so small fonts that I can hardly read it from 3 metres away? I WANT BIG LETTER AND NUMBERS! I mean what is the deal here? Such a big screen and only used fully when you use the setup procedure. Rotel definitely has to work on these problematic and ask themselves how can we use this feature we build in so that the user has a max comfort and use out of it.
Listening Test
Equipment used: Speakers K&T Esprit custom made speakers all around.
Front and Centre amplification: Parasound HCA 2003
Surround and SB amplification HCA 806 (1 SB and Bi amplified dipole surround speakers)
CD-player: custom modified Sony XA-50 ES
DVD-SACD-player: Sony DVP-NS900V
Tuner: Rotel RT 1080
TV: Sony 16/9 32’
Surround Testing
Lost in Space opening scene
So how is it like on the Rotel compared to the Denon? The Rotel really has the ability like no either Processor to place you right in the middle of the action. The sound it very involving where the Denon is a little more reserved on the surround channels. The action is fluent and details are well extracted from the bit stream. The Denon is somehow a bit more aggressive on this scene but the LFE is not so well shaped. In this case I would say this is a real matter of taste which one you liked better.
Gladiator opening scene (DTS Discrete)
Wow, there we go! Now this track really made a change. Details so crisp and dialogs so extremely clear like I have never heard them before. You are in the battle and feel like the flashes hit the enemies’ body. But the best: the dynamic the Rotel can handle is unbelievable a real pleasure to listen to this machine. The Denon falls behind on the dialogs from the centre channel and in the dynamic department. Bass is not so tight as well while this is only by a margin.
Star Trek – first contact opening and Borg battle.
What was said for Gladiator does apply in the same way. The Rotel extracts details to an amount that you can actually hear things you did not hear before and the dynamic is rather breath taking.
SACD - Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon
I did not use any bass redirection for this one and I am overly happy with the listening result.
The analogue path of the Rotel seems to be ok for SACD as the details where easier reproduced. Channel separation is good, better than on the Denon while the sound is more enveloping. It is however only by slight margins. Bass however is stronger and deeper with the Rotel.
CD-Listening
Analogue Bypass, speakers set tom large, no sub on the Rotel and pure direct on Denon
Oleta Adams – Circle of Life –track 8: Everything Must Change
I always use this CD to check the voice reproduction. Well, there is actually no real difference between the Rotel and the Denon on this track. It is however calm track where the singer’s voice is the main attraction. Only noticeable difference is that the Rotel has deeper and stronger bass, which is actually good as the Denon is a bit shy regarding bass.
Tears for Fears – Seeds of Love – track 8: Famous Last Words
The good thing about this track is that it starts real slow and then gets an extraordinary kick where one can test the dynamic ability of you equipment.
And I have no complain towards the Rotel. What I found out for DVDs does apply here as well. Excellent dynamic, the ability to jump from low to loud volumes is just great. The Denon is less good in this domain, but it is not a day and night difference, just that the Rotel does really kick in better.
Depeche Mode – Music for the Masses – track 11: Agent Orange
Fully instrumental, great track and as a big fan for 20 years of the band this just must sound right. Nearly 3 dimensional sound, details are better reproduces by the Rotel. Again, not a day and night thing, but a light noticeable margin.
Guns N’ Roses – Use your Illusion I – Track 10: November Rain
I use this track to see if the units can reproduce complex passages without just falling apart. And I was astonished as how good the Rotel could handle the track. The music did not become a not listenable sound collage, no, it stood up very well at the complex passage of the song and it was a real pleasure to listen. And this time it was quite a bit better than the Denon did handle it. No loss of details and great dynamics with a precise bass. Great!
The Sisters of Mercy – A Slight Case of Overbombing – track 2: Temple of Love
Now that is a bit speed but most of all the bass needs to be in the right shape as it actually supports the song by a big margin. At this point it is clear that what the Denon lack in bass, the Rotel does just fine. It is fast, so id the Denon, it is tight, so could say about the Denon as well, but it is also stronger and has the exact amount to my taste which I missed on the Denon.
Eric Capton – Unplugged – I just listened to the whole CD…
I love this CD because you can define the instruments very easily and the Rotel shines here too. Due to its superior details and his ability to present the whole music in a much defined way it is a pleasure to listen to this CD. The Rotel just brings a bit of life in the presentation that can be missed on the more sterile sounding Denon.
Comparing the Rotel and Denon DAC’s for CD playback.
Now that I have been rather praising the Rotel in the analogue domain, this part will be not so pleasant. What the Rotel does using its own DAC’s on the PCM signal is rather disappointing. There is clearly a loss of life and of details. The whole scene is less deep and much more flat.
On the Denon the difference is much smaller. You come to get the felling that there is a very light curtain in front of the music but that’s it.
On the Rotel you loose much more which is why I strongly recommend using the CD player DAC in case you have a good or High End player.
By the way, the Denon presents the music more in front of the speakers and on some occasion’s the sound is a bit more 3D like with better separation of the music from the speaker, where the Rotel does open a deep high scene that is more behind the speakers.
Conclusion
The Rotel is in my eyes a great Pre/Pro. Looking DVDs, or better listening to the decoding of the Rotel RSP is an overly great experience and shows that Rotel has done there homework in this domain.
Listening to CDs feed the analogue path in bypass mode is also overly great as the unit is very dynamic, has the right bass and does not loose any detail in the preamplification process.
CD’s on the Rotels DAC however in Stereo is not what I expected. It is great if you want to use DPLIIx music, than the things said for DVD’s apply. But otherwise you better use your CD-Player as DAC. Note: The DACs do just mean nothing. I have always been astonished that people do judge components by the DAC's they use. People, it is not the DAC's, its the engineers ability and genius to make them sound that counts not the DAC itself.
The TFT is a good feature but implementation is just buggy and it is a shame to have such an expensive feature on board that it only used in a way below its capabilities in comfort gain it could actually achieve.
Rotel needs to work on some part of this unit and I do strongly recommend to offer hardware upgrades to bring the unit to the next level.
Regards,
Ossi
This comparison does only represent personal view of both units side by side. However I thought it might be interesting to let you guys know how both units compare on a general base, at least this is what I tried to find out.
Manuals
Reading manual of so complex and feature loaded surround devices can be a challenge. I would not give the edge to either of them, if you are looking for something, dig deep enough and are real brave you will find it in either of them. However I am missing a sort of add on manual for the new DPLIIx features on the RSP 1098. An online manual is the least I would expect.
Build Quality
Well, there is no denying it, the Denon takes the opportunity to show what can be understood by “build quality”. Metal everywhere, all knobs, very thick metal side walls and cover where the Rotel used only a standard thin cover. Superior department shielding on the inside of the Denon, like a separate department for the DSP board where the Rotel only used a cover for analogue and digital department together. The Denon clearly has the edge here.
Remotes
My opinion from the very beginning using the Denon touch screen remote was to quickly get a Pronto. There is nothing wrong with a touch screen, but if you cannot customise it correctly or to your needs and get forced to navigate through endless menus until you get to control something than this is a clear let down.
I do not particularly like the Rotel RR 1050 either but at least what you can do with it is direct. Unfortunately there are things you cannot control with this remote so you have to get up again and use the RSP 1098 front panel buttons. So sort of a forces fitness program due to incomplete control possibilities. I surely do not want that! No clear winner here, both are far to be what I want.
Connectivity
Now this is an interesting point! For my needs both units have more than enough inputs and outputs. The Denon has even absolutely useless inputs, like the Denon Link that never will get to pass DSD signals as Denon is not willing to provide any further upgrades for old AVC A1SE+ users. Thanks Denon and please note: I let a company show me the finger only once!
Anyway, some inputs like RF signal for LD-player, phone and headphone are also included.
Which the Rotel lacks. No big deal except for the headphone. Ok, I know what Rotel said about headphone on the units, but do you believe this? Why does the new Rotel stereo amps have headphone plugs? Did they want to make the units sound worse?
Now to a point where the Rotel really shines: Four assignable 12 Volt triggers. Yes! Give me more. No joking, I use all of them and I find it to be one of the most overlooked features. Now I can automatically switch on my Rotel RT 1080, my Parasound HCA 2003 and HCA 806 as well as the sub depending on which mode I want to listen. But four of these should not be the end, future units should have even more to allow to control every other component in the system.
But for now a big plus for including those in the RSP 1098.
Surround Formats
Both have things the other does not have. The Denon has THX 2 and I believe this to be far more than a logo. At least there are some requirements to fulfil to get a THX 2 approval, so maybe the units would be less hissing (in my case) if they would have passed by the Skywalker Ranch.
The Rotel on the other hand has DPLIIx which is a great feature as far as I can tell from my experience with the unit until now. I am not particularly interested in other DSP programs so not comment on those. Regarding Rotels XS, I am not sure what it is compared to the matrix mode you could setup on the Denon to make a 5.1 source listenable in 7.1 but to my ears it is not really a big deal in difference as far as decoding goes.
Setup Procedure of Features and BM (including comments to the TFT display)
Setup on both units is rather straight. Once you found out how to navigate the menus, now big deal on either of the units. The Rotel is however much more complex. Very good is that you can assign a default listening mode to each input. The Denon did just remember the last mode set for each input, so not quite the same in terms of customisation possibilities. Neither could you assign the only trigger on the Denon where the Rotel gives you every choice you could ever imagine. Input labelling is great, but seven characters a bit short for my taste. Bass management. A chapter of its own! Really great implementation with different crossover point for the speakers. Adjustable sub level for different surround format? Even better!
The Rotel really shines here and I am most pleased.
Now that we have a TFT screen on this unit is…well, I don’t know. Before I had the unit I found the idea real cool, but I have to face the fact that the implementation is rather buggy and not well over thought. A simple example is the fact that when I change the listening level the TFT screen will indicate this, which in fact is what it should do, but why does it have to do this right on the bottom of the screen in so small fonts that I can hardly read it from 3 metres away? I WANT BIG LETTER AND NUMBERS! I mean what is the deal here? Such a big screen and only used fully when you use the setup procedure. Rotel definitely has to work on these problematic and ask themselves how can we use this feature we build in so that the user has a max comfort and use out of it.
Listening Test
Equipment used: Speakers K&T Esprit custom made speakers all around.
Front and Centre amplification: Parasound HCA 2003
Surround and SB amplification HCA 806 (1 SB and Bi amplified dipole surround speakers)
CD-player: custom modified Sony XA-50 ES
DVD-SACD-player: Sony DVP-NS900V
Tuner: Rotel RT 1080
TV: Sony 16/9 32’
Surround Testing
Lost in Space opening scene
So how is it like on the Rotel compared to the Denon? The Rotel really has the ability like no either Processor to place you right in the middle of the action. The sound it very involving where the Denon is a little more reserved on the surround channels. The action is fluent and details are well extracted from the bit stream. The Denon is somehow a bit more aggressive on this scene but the LFE is not so well shaped. In this case I would say this is a real matter of taste which one you liked better.
Gladiator opening scene (DTS Discrete)
Wow, there we go! Now this track really made a change. Details so crisp and dialogs so extremely clear like I have never heard them before. You are in the battle and feel like the flashes hit the enemies’ body. But the best: the dynamic the Rotel can handle is unbelievable a real pleasure to listen to this machine. The Denon falls behind on the dialogs from the centre channel and in the dynamic department. Bass is not so tight as well while this is only by a margin.
Star Trek – first contact opening and Borg battle.
What was said for Gladiator does apply in the same way. The Rotel extracts details to an amount that you can actually hear things you did not hear before and the dynamic is rather breath taking.
SACD - Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon
I did not use any bass redirection for this one and I am overly happy with the listening result.
The analogue path of the Rotel seems to be ok for SACD as the details where easier reproduced. Channel separation is good, better than on the Denon while the sound is more enveloping. It is however only by slight margins. Bass however is stronger and deeper with the Rotel.
CD-Listening
Analogue Bypass, speakers set tom large, no sub on the Rotel and pure direct on Denon
Oleta Adams – Circle of Life –track 8: Everything Must Change
I always use this CD to check the voice reproduction. Well, there is actually no real difference between the Rotel and the Denon on this track. It is however calm track where the singer’s voice is the main attraction. Only noticeable difference is that the Rotel has deeper and stronger bass, which is actually good as the Denon is a bit shy regarding bass.
Tears for Fears – Seeds of Love – track 8: Famous Last Words
The good thing about this track is that it starts real slow and then gets an extraordinary kick where one can test the dynamic ability of you equipment.
And I have no complain towards the Rotel. What I found out for DVDs does apply here as well. Excellent dynamic, the ability to jump from low to loud volumes is just great. The Denon is less good in this domain, but it is not a day and night difference, just that the Rotel does really kick in better.
Depeche Mode – Music for the Masses – track 11: Agent Orange
Fully instrumental, great track and as a big fan for 20 years of the band this just must sound right. Nearly 3 dimensional sound, details are better reproduces by the Rotel. Again, not a day and night thing, but a light noticeable margin.
Guns N’ Roses – Use your Illusion I – Track 10: November Rain
I use this track to see if the units can reproduce complex passages without just falling apart. And I was astonished as how good the Rotel could handle the track. The music did not become a not listenable sound collage, no, it stood up very well at the complex passage of the song and it was a real pleasure to listen. And this time it was quite a bit better than the Denon did handle it. No loss of details and great dynamics with a precise bass. Great!
The Sisters of Mercy – A Slight Case of Overbombing – track 2: Temple of Love
Now that is a bit speed but most of all the bass needs to be in the right shape as it actually supports the song by a big margin. At this point it is clear that what the Denon lack in bass, the Rotel does just fine. It is fast, so id the Denon, it is tight, so could say about the Denon as well, but it is also stronger and has the exact amount to my taste which I missed on the Denon.
Eric Capton – Unplugged – I just listened to the whole CD…
I love this CD because you can define the instruments very easily and the Rotel shines here too. Due to its superior details and his ability to present the whole music in a much defined way it is a pleasure to listen to this CD. The Rotel just brings a bit of life in the presentation that can be missed on the more sterile sounding Denon.
Comparing the Rotel and Denon DAC’s for CD playback.
Now that I have been rather praising the Rotel in the analogue domain, this part will be not so pleasant. What the Rotel does using its own DAC’s on the PCM signal is rather disappointing. There is clearly a loss of life and of details. The whole scene is less deep and much more flat.
On the Denon the difference is much smaller. You come to get the felling that there is a very light curtain in front of the music but that’s it.
On the Rotel you loose much more which is why I strongly recommend using the CD player DAC in case you have a good or High End player.
By the way, the Denon presents the music more in front of the speakers and on some occasion’s the sound is a bit more 3D like with better separation of the music from the speaker, where the Rotel does open a deep high scene that is more behind the speakers.
Conclusion
The Rotel is in my eyes a great Pre/Pro. Looking DVDs, or better listening to the decoding of the Rotel RSP is an overly great experience and shows that Rotel has done there homework in this domain.
Listening to CDs feed the analogue path in bypass mode is also overly great as the unit is very dynamic, has the right bass and does not loose any detail in the preamplification process.
CD’s on the Rotels DAC however in Stereo is not what I expected. It is great if you want to use DPLIIx music, than the things said for DVD’s apply. But otherwise you better use your CD-Player as DAC. Note: The DACs do just mean nothing. I have always been astonished that people do judge components by the DAC's they use. People, it is not the DAC's, its the engineers ability and genius to make them sound that counts not the DAC itself.
The TFT is a good feature but implementation is just buggy and it is a shame to have such an expensive feature on board that it only used in a way below its capabilities in comfort gain it could actually achieve.
Rotel needs to work on some part of this unit and I do strongly recommend to offer hardware upgrades to bring the unit to the next level.
Regards,
Ossi
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