good cost-effective new-generation surround pre-amp for nautilus speakers?

[tmt]

I'm looking for a good pre-amp for my N802 speakers with support for the new surround formats (DD-plus, DTS-master and al that stuff), but that doesn't break the bank. Costprice should be around $2000 to $3000 max. (cheaper is ok )

Do such pre-amps exist that go together with nautilus speakers? Or should I go with a second hand high-end pre-amp?

PS: amps are Classé.

[btf1980]

With the exception of the Integra DTC 9.8 and the Marantz AV8003, there are no prepros in that price range that can do all the internal decoding etc. Amazing isn't it that after all the time, the pickings are so slim for people running seperates.

I had the Rotel RSP-1069 (HDMI 1.1) and quite frankly, for 2K plus, I expected more. Hopefully, whenever Rotel introduces the successor to the 1098, they get it right from the gate. I replaced my 1069 with a Marantz SR-7002 and I couldn't be happier. The Marantz has pre-outs, so it does its duties as my pre-pro while my Rotel Power amp drives my speakers. Works wonderfully for me. YMMV.

[speakerboy]

It may be beyond your budget, but check out the Denon AVP-A1HDCI pre/pro. It's got the latest technology and supports all the new surround formats, HDMI 1.3a, Audessey, video processing, Wi-Fi, Internet Radio, HD Radio, XLR outs, etc., controls my 803D/HTM2D/SCMS 7.1 system and makes everything sound crisp.

If you're in Belgium, are you still implying US$2000 - US$3000 ?

[utkinpol]

I'm looking for a good pre-amp for my N802 speakers with support for the new surround formats (DD-plus, DTS-master and al that stuff), but that doesn't break the bank. Costprice should be around $2000 to $3000 max. (cheaper is ok )

Do such pre-amps exist that go together with nautilus speakers? Or should I go with a second hand high-end pre-amp?

PS: amps are Classé.

I will look over this weekend at Integra DTC 9.8.
It has all bells and whistles one can imagine. Reviews are mostly positive, I only saw couple of folks with Lexicon MC12 doing tongue-in-cheek about it. Mostly people say - it has amazing sound.

[tmt]

I've looked at the DTC 9.8 (and the similar Onkyo PR-SC885), but the 2 channel performance doesn't seem to be good if you read the reviews.

The Marantz seems interesting. Thanks for the tip!

speakerboy, of course it's euro's over here, just a habbit from reading american forums

[style]

Hallo tmt,

I have a ampli Classe too (CA5200) and for the new codec (i life in europa)
the Marantz AV8003 is the best solution at this price!

The new Classe SSP800 is sure much better but much expensive too.

Integra in Switzerland is not available (only reciever Onkyo complet)

The AV8003 will be better vs. a Denon or so like that! that is sure.

Omar

[style]

forgot:

--> Marco Lisi from Belgium (hier in the forum too) have the AV8003 tested
and say that is a great pre!!

bey Omar

[wettou]

I'm looking for a good pre-amp for my N802 speakers with support for the new surround formats (DD-plus, DTS-master and al that stuff), but that doesn't break the bank. Costprice should be around $2000 to $3000 max. (cheaper is ok ) Do such pre-amps exist that go together with nautilus speakers? Or should I go with a second hand high-end pre-amp?

PS: amps are Classé.

Integra DTC 9.9 $1800

[GregLett]

I like the price point of the DTC.

[tmt]

forgot:

--> Marco Lisi from Belgium (hier in the forum too) have the AV8003 tested
and say that is a great pre!!

bey Omar

thanks for the tip. I found his review, and it's in Dutch so I could read it
The Marantz might seem a good compromise. Not too wicked expensive, but good enough to control a pair of 802s.

[Kal Rubinson]

I've looked at the DTC 9.8 (and the similar Onkyo PR-SC885), but the 2 channel performance doesn't seem to be good if you read the reviews.

For the umpteenth time: The number of channels is irrelevant. The issue is the analog input stage. Stereo from digital sources is just fine.

Kal

[wettou]

The new Classe SSP800 is sure much better but much expensive too.

How much? 8O

[Alaric]

The Integras sound very good , based on the ones I auditioned. My only issue with them , and the Onkyos , are the binding posts. Terrible. A minor issue , relative to the quality of the rest of the unit , but if access to them is limited during hook-up , they can be quite frustrating. I'm a Marantz fan , but my two-channel integrated seems to have a totally different "sound" than the receivers . My receiver is an older Onkyo , and doesn't have many bells or whistles , but it's been a sturdy , reliable unit for several years now.

[style]

@wettou

Quote:
Originally Posted by style
The new Classe SSP800 is sure much better but much expensive too.

In Switzerland SSP800 = Chf. 13'000.- versus USA $ 8'000.-
Marantz AV8003 = Chf. 4'500.-
-----------------
Chf. 8'500.- change in $ =7'750.- ca.

OK????

[Kal Rubinson]

The Integras sound very good , based on the ones I auditioned. My only issue with them , and the Onkyos , are the binding posts.

There are no binding posts on a pre/pro.

Kal

[beden1]

There are no binding posts on a pre/pro.

Kal

You beat me to that response! :T

[Mig17]

Rotel 1098 will knock out many many HD 1.3a AVR from Onkyo 805, 905, Yamah, denon 3808, ....

[utkinpol]

I've looked at the DTC 9.8 (and the similar Onkyo PR-SC885), but the 2 channel performance doesn't seem to be good if you read the reviews.

The Marantz seems interesting. Thanks for the tip!

speakerboy, of course it's euro's over here, just a habbit from reading american forums

I`ve ordered 885 onkyo - integra was out of stock anywhere i called.
I listend to integra on the weekend at the dealer, on rotel 1090 power amp and 803 b&w speakers, digital and pure audio analog from rotel dvd.

at least from that source i would say quality was terrific. he used meridian pre-amp as alternative, i could not hear any significant diffs, and neither could the store owner. so, well, may be there is some diff there, but not on my class of equipment.

so, for this moment at least i am sold on 885 onkyo (the one i could get). should receive it next week thursday.

[utkinpol]

Integra DTC 9.9 $1800

i do not see much sense in discussing non-existing products with unknown specs and prices.

[MrWhite]

I`ve ordered 885 onkyo - integra was out of stock anywhere i called.
I listend to integra on the weekend at the dealer, on rotel 1090 power amp and 803 b&w speakers, digital and pure audio analog from rotel dvd.

at least from that source i would say quality was terrific. he used meridian pre-amp as alternative, i could not hear any significant diffs, and neither could the store owner. so, well, may be there is some diff there, but not on my class of equipment.

so, for this moment at least i am sold on 885 onkyo (the one i could get). should receive it next week thursday.

I own an Integra 9.8 and have nothing but good things to say about the audio section. I have never used the analog in's and that is apparently where the 9.8 falls short relative to the ability of its other sections.

A pair of already broken in 802D's should be arriving tomorrow that I will be powering for now with my Rotel RB-1080. I'll post my impressions sometime soon.

In general, I will say the 9.8 does live up to the hype that it is a great value at its $1,600 price point.

The only thing that has miffed me about the 9.8 is its video scaling having color shift issues. This is not really an issue for me as all my sources are 720p and up, so they don't absolutely need an auxiliary scaler. The workaround is to leave the Integra's scaling off until the company releases a fix. The word on the wind is they will have a fix available sometime "soon".

Not the end of the word, but since I imagine the scaler in the Integra is better than the one in my Sat TV box and my plasma, it sucks not being able to use the scaler, even though I paid for it.

[utkinpol]

I own an Integra 9.8 and have nothing but good things to say about the audio section. I have never used the analog in's and that is apparently where the 9.8 falls short relative to the ability of its other sections.

A pair of already broken in 802D's should be arriving tomorrow that I will be powering for now with my Rotel RB-1080. I'll post my impressions sometime soon.

Congrats about 802`s. Those are truly nice speakers. Too bad i will need a new house with better HT room to justify something like that.

How do you like Audyssey setup of 9.8 if you did one? Did you hear any improvements after it compared to original (flat) EQ?

[MrWhite]

Thanks.

I started some time ago with a Denon AVR 3806 and did not like the Audyssey Auto EQ in it at all.

I tried the Auto-EQ with the Integra, and while it seemed to be headed more in the right direction than the Denon's version, I still did not like the results it provided. This was after 6 or more sessions using a tripod to hold the mic, following the directions to a "T", shutting off the AC, and kicking everyone out of the house (dogs included).

The resulting sound did seem more balanced frequency response wise but to my ears there was a sharp decline in realism. For example, horns did not sound like horns but more like a recording of a horn. Hard to explain further in words but it felt like it fixed frequency response "problems" at the expense of introducing other, unpleasant to my ear, side effects.

It did seem to smooth out the bass response. My listening room has some serious peaks due to no real room treatment and less than optimal speaker placement. In that regards I found the AutoEQ beneficial, but not so much that I preferred the Audyssey sound to the non-Audyssey sound.

Audyssey Auto EQ (the Integra version) also did a great job determining speaker distance and level setting. I measured both manually and got the same results Auto EQ obtained on its own.

I am not sure why Audyssey did not work so well for me. Perhaps my setup had such serious issues it could not work its magic without some compromise or negative side effects. Or maybe I don't know what proper sound reproduction should sound like.

Or maybe Audyssey sucks.

[Kal Rubinson]

Or mebbe you have become neurally adapted to the vagaries of your non-corrected system. :roll:

[MrWhite]

Or mebbe you have become neurally adapted to the vagaries of your non-corrected system. :roll:

Certainly possible, although so are the options I listed and I don't see the point of rolling your eyes at my post.

I did give the Auto-EQ'd setup a two week run to see if all I needed was an adjustment period. I even had a good attitude about the new and odd to me tuning of my setup, hoping my ears and brain would come around.

But, they didn't. After 14 days of leaving Auto-EQ on, as soon as I turned the EQ off I immediately preferred the non-Auto EQ'd sound, aside from the peakier bass.

I absolutely encourage others to experiment with Audyssey and see if they prefer their system corrected or not.

Kal, have you ever tried running Auto-EQ on a system with lesser than high end components with less than optimal speaker placement in an average, untreated room? If so, did you prefer it auto-corrected over the flat or manually tuned system?

[Kal Rubinson]

Certainly possible, although so are the options I listed and I don't see the point of rolling your eyes at my post.

I was rolling my eyes at my statement to mitigate any implied personal criticism. We are all subject to subconscious mechanisms of the mind.

I did give the Auto-EQ'd setup a two week run to see if all I needed was an adjustment period. I even had a good attitude about the new and odd to me tuning of my setup, hoping my ears and brain would come around.

But, they didn't. After 14 days of leaving Auto-EQ on, as soon as I turned the EQ off I immediately preferred the non-Auto EQ'd sound, aside from the peakier bass.

I absolutely encourage others to experiment with Audyssey and see if they prefer their system corrected or not.

Excellent. This is what I often suggest.

Kal, have you ever tried running Auto-EQ on a system with lesser than high end components with less than optimal speaker placement in an average, untreated room? If so, did you prefer it auto-corrected over the flat or manually tuned system?

Hard to say whether my 2nd system qualifies but the room is nearly a 1/2 cube. Audyssey is preferred. My general expectations are that such correction is most noticeable with such systems.

I recall that when Peter Linkwitz brought me the old TacT RCS, he wanted me to move my speakers into the corners so that the effect of the EQ would be most apparent. He said my system (the other one) was too good.

[Russ L]

Or mebbe you have become neurally adapted to the vagaries of your non-corrected system. :roll:

But would it stop brain shrinkage in my old age? If I keep changing my room "correction" can I build new neural pathways? Help, I need all the synapses humanly possible! :W

[RebelMan]

I recall that when Peter Linkwitz brought me the old TacT RCS, he wanted me to move my speakers into the corners so that the effect of the EQ would be most apparent. He said my system (the other one) was too good.

Why am I not surprised? :W

[tmt]

For the umpteenth time: The number of channels is irrelevant. The issue is the analog input stage. Stereo from digital sources is just fine.

Kal

That's good news! I'm not planning to use analog sources anyway.
If I have a bit more time, I'll try to find a dealer that has The Onkio in demo (I don't think they sell the Integra over here).

Thanks for all the feedback from everyone by the way :T

[Kal Rubinson]

But would it stop brain shrinkage in my old age? If I keep changing my room "correction" can I build new neural pathways? Help, I need all the synapses humanly possible! :W

Any change helps. :T

Kal