What Surround Preamp/Processor with RMB 1095?

[Dalus_Carosu]

Like the Topic say.

I have atm 1068 and 1095 at loan from a company until I decide if I will buy it. I dont have any buzz problems anymore but others that anoy me kinda much

Seems I cant the 1068 to work good with my Kappa 600 Speakers. It plays to much High-Frequency and almost nothing at Low-Frequency. With the 1068 I cant change the bass enough to make it play resonably good or to lower High-Frequency so my ears dont POP out

Yes one more thing is the Signal to Noise Ratio so bad on all Preamps? The S/N on Stereo is teribble but much better when I use bypass. When I run it in Surround it isent that good either

So I am gonna change the Preamp. What should I choose? I need one where I can configure the settings more like High/low Frequency, something that plays little more softer and with less s/n - Distortion.

I mean it really suck when my H/K 10+ years old a HK680 makes it sound better when I use it as a preamp then the 1068 and the s/n is much lower :roll:

And once again sorry for the bad english I hope you guys understand what I am trying to explai and ask for

[DrBoom]

If you like bass, smooth treble and very low hiss then you should try the Parasound C2.
It's dead quiet up to around 0 dB, which is loud as hell.
Bass is incredibly tight and powerfull, anyone who has ever heard one will confirm that. (if it was driving a capable amp that is)
Ofcourse it's about 3x as expensive as the 1068, but that's the price you have to pay I suppose.
You could also try the upcoming Classé SSP300, Primare SP31, TAG McLaren AV32 bp192, the upcoming Parasound Classic 7100 or give Anthem a shot with the AVM30 if you can get that where you live.
Prices for these machines will range from around €3500 (Anthem, Primare, Parasound 7100 ) to €5500 (TAG, Classé, Parasound C2).

Don't bother with the Rotel 1098, same problems with bad S/N ratio, not that great bass (to my taste) and lots of upper midrange and treble.
It's a known fact that the S/N ratio is pretty good in bypass mode, but as soon as you activate the DSP it goes bananas.

[Azeke]

Dalus Carosu,

You may want to ensure the following:

1) Speaker calibration via SPL meter.
2) Set the delays properly, from your optimal seating position

These settings are crucial and must be properly set, before you make any sonic judgements.

Just my quick thoughts.

Hope this helps,

Azeke

[Dalus_Carosu]

Oh thank god DrBoom I was thinking I was the only one who thought this

Well the 1068 is imposible with my Speakers is not the settings.

Oh well this is gonna get expensive it looks like

[Marcel B]

I would think about another power amplifier when I think the combination with speakers doesn't work.

Marcel B

[Dalus_Carosu]

Then new processor to then

And cant fidn anyother in same price range

[DrBoom]

As you already noticed, most processors are a lot more expensive than the 1068, which I why I'm willing to accept that it has some "flaws".
There is only 1 processor I can think of that is in the same pricerange, and that is the NAD T163, and the Outlaw 950 but that's one of those "internet only" things.
Anyway, here are some more processors you could look at:

-TAG McLaren AV30 5.1 (cheaper version of the AV32, less upgradable): €3200
-Arcam AV8 : €4500
-Myryad MDP500 : around €2500
-Bryston SP1.7 : around €7000
And then there's Meridian, Lexicon and Mark Levinson but I don't think you want to sell your car to get a processor

You could also look at the 2nd hand market, and go for a Parasound AVC2500 or an older Lexicon DC1/MC1 or Meridian.
These are still great machines, but they lack the latest features.
I would definately take a look at the Primare SP31, costs €3750 new and it's a very nice preamp and great with music too.

[Dalus_Carosu]

Hey dont have those all in Sweden

Btw what amplifer can I get for same pricerange that is kidna like a HK? that plays more softer

[DrBoom]

How can you NOT have Primare in Sweden ?
It's a swedish brand !

Btw what amplifer can I get for same pricerange that is kidna like a HK? that plays more softer

Are you talking about a power amplifier, integrated stereo amplifier or surround receiver here ?
Are you going to use a receiver as a processor like you did with the HK or am I wrong on this one ?

[Dalus_Carosu]

Was first thinking of changing Processor and using the 1095. But then again I dont know if another Processor will change the fact my speakers dont work good with Rotel. Or will another processor change that?

That why I asked if there was another amplifer what playes similar like the HK because they fit my speakers Nicly

I only used the HK as a processor to se the difference between it and the 1068 and the HK had less n/s hehe

[DrBoom]

I know the Kappa 600, very good speaker with great detail and deep bass extension.
But like most big speakers they require a good poweramp, I wouldn't recommend "downgrading" to a receiver/integrated surround amp unless it's one of those upper class flagships like a Denon AVC-A1SR / Pioneer AX-10Ai / Yamaha DSP-Z9 but those cost just as much as your 1068 + 1095.
The Kappa's are a bit too good to use on just any €1500 receiver, so I would recommend keeping your poweramp unless you're really not satisfied with it.
Do you like the sound when your HK is used as a processor, or not ?
If not, you don't like the poweramp either and you should look for something else.

I don't know how well Rotel works with your speakers, I've never heard them on Rotel amps.
I can only say that on my 804's and to my taste Rotel amps didn't work out, so I changed to a Parasound poweramp. (still have the 1098 processor)
A processor can make a lot of difference, but if you don't like the sound of your poweramp that will still have a great effect on the overall sound.
I found that the poweramp makes a lot of difference, but so did the processor and everything else I changed
Ofcourse a separate poweramp + processor will always be more expensive than a receiver, but it's also capable of much more detail and power.
You already made the investment in good speakers, now don't go cheap on the amps and ruin what you have (or could have)

[Dalus_Carosu]

Yes the kappa are Detalied but the Rotel makes them to much Detalied Thats the problem.. So less at high Freuancy and more on Low

Yeah need another poweramp dunno which one but 1095 is very nice but wrong for my speakers

Yes I am 100% sure that I want a preamp and a amplifier but the other I was looking for are so damn expensive

[DrBoom]

One tip: buy used (2nd hand)

You can get great value for money, and get the system of your dreams which you wouldn't be able to afford if you had to buy it new.
Poweramps are the safest thing to buy used, CD/DVD players are a bit riskier since they have parts that can wear out or break down (mechanical parts, laser, ...) but still OK if you buy one that's fairly new.
The only downside to buying used is that you don't get any warranty at all since 99% of manufacturers don't give transferrable warranty.
The only one that does this is Bryston, 20 years international transferrable warranty.
So if you buy a Bryston 9B amp made in 1994 from someone in Singapore, you'll still get 10 years of warranty at any Bryston dealer anywhere in the world.
I bought my Parasound amp used, new it would've cost me €4500, this one was 2 years old and in mint condition and cost me €2400.
Buying used does require some precautions, and you have to be absolutely sure that the seller is reliable.
But if you find someone in your region, you can often go over there and listen to the amp first before you buy.
In my case he even brought the amp to my house so I could listen to it in my system.
Buying used is especially profitable for very expensive high-end gear, which loses a lot of it's initial value right after you purchase it from the store but then stays at a steady price level.

Regarding the "too much high" that could be caused by your CD player as well, as I found my Rotel 1075 amp didn't have much highs at all. (or lows)

[Dalus_Carosu]

I have 2 DVD players and 1 CD player test them all.. same

[Dalus_Carosu]

Maybe that could get avoided by another Pre Amp where you can change the Highes and the Lows more? on the 1068 you cant change a damn thing hehe

[DrJRapp]

Don't bother with the Rotel 1098, same problems with bad S/N ratio, not that great bass (to my taste) and lots of upper midrange and treble.
It's a known fact that the S/N ratio is pretty good in bypass mode, but as soon as you activate the DSP it goes bananas.

I think that situation has changed quite a bit with the latest 1098 version which has a different TFT screen and improved dsp board. My 1098 is very recent and is dead quiet at high gain levels even with my Klipsch Reference speakers which are super high efficiency and tend to reveal the slightest noise in the electronics chain. I too was concerned after hearing about previous issues but my dealer convinced me to give it a try. I'm glad he did. For it's price the current 1098 is a winner.

I do agree that the 1098 is a bit brighter than most.

[Dalus_Carosu]

blah now I wish I dident have these speakers imposible to match lol

[DrBoom]

Are you serious DrJRapp ?
I was aware of the newer DSP board and I have an email here from Rotel Japan in which they confirm that the newer DSP board is a lot quieter.
I find this quite astonishing actually that they made such a (imo) drastic change to a design, and not offer it as an upgrade for nagging customers that are allergic to noise.
If I had the gear to test it I would definately hook up the 1098 and measure it's S/N ratio, then if it would be out of spec I could force them to replace it with the new board.
But I'm sure that if I sent it to Rotel Europe I'd get a "performance is within specifications" note with it, and that would be it.
Have you ever heard the "old" and the new 1098 side-by-side ?
Maybe there are other differences that have come with this new dsp board as well ?
If it would have tighter bass, and less noise I wouldn't even dream of selling it, ever.
But these are 2 of the most important things to me, so it's very critical.

Dalus, you're not the only one with "impossible" speakers
I feel exactly the same about my 804's, simply because I've heard them perform so great and I can't reproduce it at home.
Mainly due to the 1098 I've concluded, because the poweramp is quite phenomenal when I hook the CD player directly to it.

[PewterTA]

I just bought the 1098, I'm assuming it has the new DSP board, is there anyway to tell for sure as it serial number, or build date or something on the back of it? Just curious!

I know how some things can sit in a warehouse for a while before making into a consumer's hand...

[DrJRapp]

Are you serious DrJRapp ?

I'm completely serious. I never was able to compare the newer and older 1098s but one thing is very obvious to me, the 1098 is MUCH quieter than the 1066 it replaced! Everything seems to come from a much "blacker" background. With the volume set to MAX, DVD player selected, with no program material and the unit in default PLIIx cinema mode, I hear a slight hiss at about 5 feet from my mains. I have no way of determining if that hiss originates from the 1098 or the 1080 or my DVD player, or the interconnecting wiring, since I have no desire to start unplugging things to find out (if it ain't broke, don't fix it!).

As I mentioned in my previous post, I was very wary of the 1098 becuse of noise issues, and was leaning towards an Anthem AVM 30, when my dealer, who sells both Rotel and Anthem, convinced me to try the 1098.

As I mentioned, my speakers are super efficient (102dbw) and show up the slightest defect in the electronics chain. I don't think it would be possible to stay in the room at anything near max volume. With a lesser efficient speaker (any B&W for example) would probably have inaudible noise even at MAX.

[dbart]

I'm using a Pioneer Elite 54Tx as pre/pro with my Rotel 1095 amp. Very nice combination with excellent soundstage, detail, and warmth. For the price I don't think you could do better. Also, I use the surround back amps in the Pioneer to give me 7.1 channels.

[Dalus_Carosu]

Hmm Dbart never heard of that, think i look it up

[Dalus_Carosu]

Ah a Reciver

Dont Pioneer have a sound processor?

[Shane Martin]

Dalus,
No they do not.

Other suggestions:

> $2k - Sherwood Newcastle P965
< $2k - Anthem AVM30. I believe it is being upgraded to PLIIX and firewire here shortly along with HDMI.

[Dalus_Carosu]

Oh well I have decided to keep the 1095 :T

Just need to find a Processor but kinda much to choose from hehe.

It must be one you can control the sound more to lower it or increase but it seems the most of these you cant do to much. The 1068 I couldent change almost a thing I could lower LF and HF so little I couldent even notice the change hehe.

So a Parasound Halo C2 or TAG McLaren AV30 5.1 or maybe the Primare SP31

Just cant find the time price on The Halo her ein Sweden

[DrBoom]

The 1068 I couldent change almost a thing I could lower LF and HF so little I couldent even notice the change hehe.

You aren't running it in Analog Bypass mode are you ?
Because in that mode the tone controls don't work
The difference between -10 and +10 should be very audible no matter what I'd think, be it in the low or high frequencies.
I don't know the exact price of the C2 in Sweden, but prices vary between €5000 and €7000 over here.

[Marcel B]

Imo you should not (need to) use tone control settings to make a combination possible.Most tone controls work very crude.
I only use them with bad recordings (many are too bright) and not often.


Big receivers like Pioneer AX10 are not capable of handling speakers with a difficult load especially when they are 4 ohm. Just take a look at the size of the transformer (keeping in mind that it should work for 7 channels) and you will understand why. Many users have upgraded with at least one stereo amplifier.

Marcel B

[Dalus_Carosu]

Not running on bypass mode when testing but I am running bypass when lissening to CD 2ch the S/N is terrible if I dont run bypass

[Dalus_Carosu]

Begining to think there is something wrong with the 1095

I just got home a HK ADR 2005 to try it out as a preamp against the Rotel.

First I tried out the HK some. It worked good low S/N nice sound everything..

Oh well then I pluged in the HK in the 1095 and OFCORSE the S/N went upp

OMG this Rotel is starting to anoy me :rofl:

[Andrew Pratt]

Dalus if you don't like the 1095 exchange it for something you do like. Maybe try a 1075 just to see what you think of that model...it might be closer to what you desire.