Testing B&W with McIntosh & Marantz

**audioqueso** · 31 January 2009, 03:46 Saturday

Is my question that difficult to answer...
Or is it such a simple answer that everyone thinks I'm dumb for even asking? ha ha

**DelRay** · 31 January 2009, 09:16 Saturday

I thought the Mcintosh MA6200 was an older model. I can't find it on the Mac website. Reason being, if the 6200 has a Home Theater Passthrough, you could use that option. All analog inputs directly into the 6200 and all digital inputs into the Marantz 7200 and then. from the L R preouts to the 6200's HT passthrough input. The amps of the 6200 would be powering your 805's all the time.

**audioqueso** · 31 January 2009, 09:27 Saturday

Oops... I meant MA6300 (I corrected the original post)
I know they have a pass-thru option, but that's not really my point.
I'm asking if my test seems logical.
Is my way of thinking correct? Would this test pretty much show me what kind or how much of a bottleneck my receiver would be?

**dknightd** · 31 January 2009, 09:55 Saturday

it sounds like it would be a useful experiment

**DelRay** · 31 January 2009, 11:01 Saturday

If the salesman is going to let you try it out for a few days, great. Let your ears decide for you.

**jericho** · 31 January 2009, 14:27 Saturday

McIntosh without any doubt!!

**audioqueso** · 31 January 2009, 19:55 Saturday

Originally posted by DelRay

If the salesman is going to let you try it out for a few days, great. Let your ears decide for you.

Yes, I agree. But I'm trying to see if this thinking is logic sense. Does this test make sense?
I'm trying to find out if I use the Marantz receiver as a pre, would connecting that to the McIntosh essentially be the same as connecting something like a MC205 to the Marantz receiver? Would this be a true test to show my bottleneck?

Yes, I can get the MA6300, but I don't want to spend $4-5k and only my CDs sound better. I want my movies to get that as well, I want my PS3 to get that as well.
Yes, I can get the MC205, but am I going to be spending $4-5k on an amp only to find out that I'm being severely held back because of the Marantz, you know?

The nearest dealer is two hours away, and that's why I want ask first before I go back up to the dealer with an answer.

**Ken49r** · 31 January 2009, 21:09 Saturday

Originally posted by audioqueso

Yes, I agree. But I'm trying to see if this thinking is logic sense. Does this test make sense?
I'm trying to find out if I use the Marantz receiver as a pre, would connecting that to the McIntosh essentially be the same as connecting something like a MC205 to the Marantz receiver? Would this be a true test to show my bottleneck?

Hi audioqueso,
I'm going to chime in and say I don't think your plan will be a true comparison considering it sounds like you are using 1 McIntosh piece to represent two very different pieces. Does your dealer have both the MC205 and MA6300 that you can audition separately? I would borrow the MC205 first for a week and then the MA6300 the following week and hear the difference when the Marrantz is excluded from the equation. Then it would be a decision to accept the MA6300 and enjoy your 2 channel integrated amp or be content owning the MC205 knowing you still need a McIntosh surround processor for double the $ to get the MC205 sounding it's best.

I had my Rotel RMB-1095 hooked through an Onkyo AVR and when I replaced the Onkyo with the Rotel RSP-1069 the sound changed significantly.

I too am thinking of upgradeing to McIntosh and along the same route as your going so I hope to hear the results of your tests in the future.

Ken

**Ken49r** · 31 January 2009, 21:17 Saturday

PS:
Also the surround processor you chose will play a significant role in how well it handles 2 CH mode vs that of the dedicated 2CH integrated amp.

decisions, decisions. :roll:

**audioqueso** · 31 January 2009, 21:42 Saturday

Thanks Ken.
I have looked at the route of just replacing my Marantz with a dedicated preamp, but like I said... I don't want to spend $4-5k and be limited only to music having the best sound. I use my speakers for 50/50 movies and music. And with that noted, HDMI is important to me as well, since I use a PS3 for blu-ray (no multi-channel analog outputs). So it's a trade off. I have looked at the new Rotel preamp, but have heard many reports of HDMI issues. That's a huge turn off for me. Hmmm... decisions, decisions. ha ha

**Ken49r** · 31 January 2009, 22:08 Saturday

audioqueso,
I understand what your saying but what I got from your initial post is that you want to invest your 4k-5k in hi end electronics to get reference sound from your 805's. (I too have 805s/HTM4/DS7 speakers) Rotel is good but when I heard the 805's on McIntosh I knew someday that I will upgrade to better SQ of McIntosh or Classe myself.
It sounds like the best route for you is to upgrade your amp to either Classe or McIntosh and go for the gusto when you can upgrade your surround processor in the future. I'm pretty sure the MC205 will give better results over the Marantz even using it as a pre/pro.

**Gump** · 31 January 2009, 22:38 Saturday

Originally posted by audioqueso

Yes, I can get the MC205, but am I going to be spending $4-5k on an amp...

Too bad your not a little closer to Arizona, audioqueso...I'm seriously contemplating selling my MC-205 so that I can get a Classe CA-5200 to match my SSP-800 processor.

I love the 205, but I want the system to match and then there's that mysterious "synergy" thing that everyone talks about as well... 8O

**audioqueso** · 31 January 2009, 22:42 Saturday

That is correct, Ken. I have $4-5k that I want to use for an amp/integrated amp. I noted that.

The reason I am not even considering a preamp is because I had been looking for a preamp. But as I have found out, there are a limited choices of preamps with HDMI 1.3a that fall under my price range. And if they are in my price range, they have HDMI issues, which in my experience, really weighs in a lot. So I have kinda just come to settle that I may need to stay with my Marantz AV receiver as a preamp for sometime until more options are available.

What are you using with your 805's?

**Ken49r** · 01 February 2009, 00:25 Sunday

So I have been following your posts correctly. Ha Ha!

I'm using Rotels RMB-1095, RSP-1069, RDC-1072, PS3 (non sacd), OPPO-980H, Kimber 8VS speaker cable, Kimber Hero IC's, (cd to pre/pro and pre/pro to amp)

I'm contemplating the same upgrade. I am wondering how the MC205 or MA6300 will sound with my RSP-1069 and do I want to upgrade all 5 channels or is 2 enough for my music needs.

I too have issues with the video side of mutichannel and wonder if it is better to wait it out since everything gets outdated so fast and there seems to be more on the horizon.

I may be doing the same exact demos in the near future.
I'm OK with the Rotel gear in HT but when I hear music be it 2 or 5 Ch. I can't help but remember how alive the 805's sounded on McIntosh. It honestly did sound as though the music was live. I'm not trying to take anything away from Rotel. On the B&W 600 and 700 series I owned the Rotel sounded like a much better match. I think IMO the 800 series require more higher end electronics to bring out the best in them.

Attached Files

**audioqueso** · 01 February 2009, 02:06 Sunday

Great setup! Looks really good!

Originally posted by Ken49r

... or is 2 enough for my music needs.

Yeah... I don't think I can say that. I enjoy movies too much to say the same.

I think I'll call up the dealer and try it out anyway.

**misterdoggy** · 01 February 2009, 05:55 Sunday

Originally posted by Ken49r

So I have been following your posts correctly. Ha Ha!

I'm using Rotels RMB-1095, RSP-1069, RDC-1072, PS3 (non sacd), OPPO-980H, Kimber 8VS speaker cable, Kimber Hero IC's, (cd to pre/pro and pre/pro to amp)

I'm contemplating the same upgrade. I am wondering how the MC205 or MA6300 will sound with my RSP-1069 and do I want to upgrade all 5 channels or is 2 enough for my music needs.

I too have issues with the video side of mutichannel and wonder if it is better to wait it out since everything gets outdated so fast and there seems to be more on the horizon.

I may be doing the same exact demos in the near future.
I'm OK with the Rotel gear in HT but when I hear music be it 2 or 5 Ch. I can't help but remember how alive the 805's sounded on McIntosh. It honestly did sound as though the music was live. I'm not trying to take anything away from Rotel. On the B&W 600 and 700 series I owned the Rotel sounded like a much better match. I think IMO the 800 series require more higher end electronics to bring out the best in them.

McIntosh Amplification really would improve the sound of your B&W. No matter what Processor you are using, it can benefit by McIntosh, and I am a believer that you don't have to have all your material in the same brand. ie:Rotel because they are in house B&W product go well with B&W.

McIntosh goes really well, but many on this forum like Classe and other top Amps as well. It would be a major step up in Sound. I am using a MC205 right now to power 800D's (temporarily as Im downsizing) and its still a great sounding amp.

**audioqueso** · 01 February 2009, 06:34 Sunday

Well, then I think I'll try that. I'll borrow the MA6300 and see what it sounds like with and without the Marantz. Thanks.

**misterdoggy** · 01 February 2009, 07:31 Sunday

I would lean to MC205 rather than an integrated Amp myself

**audioqueso** · 01 February 2009, 08:16 Sunday

They don't carry the MC205 (wasn't it discontinued?). I would have to buy it used from somewhere. But to try it out with my current components, I would borrow the MA6300. That's why I was asking if my test seems like it would work.

**misterdoggy** · 01 February 2009, 09:31 Sunday

Originally posted by audioqueso

They don't carry the MC205 (wasn't it discontinued?). I would have to buy it used from somewhere. But to try it out with my current components, I would borrow the MA6300. That's why I was asking if my test seems like it would work.

The mc205 is a different amp than the 6300. Not to be confused with the 7205, it is a super Amp and I have had 3 at different times. Also the MC207 which is EXACTLY the same except with 2 more channels.

The difference physically is the 207 has Knobs on the front and the 205 does not.

Buying it used is the way to go. Look on Audiogon, there are always some stuff available. I just bought one from Audioclassics (speak to ryan) for $3500.

**Ken49r** · 01 February 2009, 10:00 Sunday

Originally posted by misterdoggy

The mc205 is a different amp than the 6300.

Hi audioqueso, I'm going to chime in and say I don't think your plan will be a true comparison considering it sounds like you are using 1 McIntosh piece to represent two very different pieces.

Yes, that is what I was trying to point out as well. You wouldnt know how the MC205 would sound by using the MA6300 in the chain. Each amp has it's own sound character.

**misterdoggy** · 01 February 2009, 10:18 Sunday

Originally posted by Ken49r

Yes, that is what I was trying to point out as well. You wouldnt know how the MC205 would sound by using the MA6300 in the chain. Each amp has it's own sound character.

I can confirm the MC205 is a great Amp!! ;x( ;x(

**Ken49r** · 01 February 2009, 11:05 Sunday

deleted...

ops:

**audioqueso** · 01 February 2009, 18:33 Sunday

Originally posted by misterdoggy

The mc205 is a different amp than the 6300. Not to be confused with the 7205, it is a super Amp and I have had 3 at different times...

Originally posted by Ken49r

Yes, that is what I was trying to point out as well. You wouldnt know how the MC205 would sound by using the MA6300 in the chain. Each amp has it's own sound character.

Ahhhhhhh.. that I didn't know. I know one's an integrated amp, and the other is a power amp, and I know, that in regards to their power amp section, they have different components but I was thinking they would still have somewhat similar sounds. Or like the same signature sound. Hmmmm... interesting.

Misterdoggy,
As I mentioned, I don't have a way of testing out the MC205, but I'd like your opinion on something. If I did hook up Marantz receiver+MA6300... strictly your opinion, do you think that setup would not sound as good as receiver+MC205?

**scanido** · 01 February 2009, 19:10 Sunday

Like others have said I would go with the MC205. It is much more versatile than the MA6300. If you want an end solution now for 2CH, then the MA6300, but if you want an all around system for 2CH and HT than I would get the MC205 now and later get the matching MX150! Keep in mind that this would be the more expensive proposition.

I have the MC205 and love the sound it produces! If you can find it used i would buy it this way as McIntosh just raised the prices across the board.

**audioqueso** · 01 February 2009, 21:24 Sunday

What do you use as a preamp, Scanido?

**scanido** · 01 February 2009, 22:47 Sunday

Originally posted by audioqueso

What do you use as a preamp, Scanido?

I have been using a Rotel RSX-1057 which has been adequate but at the back of my mind I always feel like it is the bottleneck in my system. I want to keep my system simple so i will only have one source (PS3) that will serve Movies and Music so i want to get the best possible processor to handle both jobs. With all the new announcements of the next gen processors I have on my shortlist the new Rotel RSP-1570, Anthem AVM50v2, Cary Cinema 11a, and even the MX150 *if it is reasonably priced.

**george_k** · 02 February 2009, 00:59 Monday

My setup consists of:

Slimdevices Transporter(*)->McIntosh MA6900->B&W 703's

(*) for movies I use my PS3 and put the Transporter in DAC mode

**misterdoggy** · 02 February 2009, 07:37 Monday

Originally posted by audioqueso

Misterdoggy,
As I mentioned, I don't have a way of testing out the MC205, but I'd like your opinion on something. If I did hook up Marantz receiver+MA6300... strictly your opinion, do you think that setup would not sound as good as receiver+MC205?

This is a slam dunk conclusion. The MC205. It also isolates the FR FL channels from the other 3 so act as a 2 channel Amp.

Why would you want the preamp section ofr the 6300 anyhow ?

The 205 and 207 are great amps.....

**audioqueso** · 02 February 2009, 08:47 Monday

I'm not sure I quite understand what you mean. The MC205 isolates the front channels so it acts like a 2-channel amp.... as oppose to the 2-channel int. amp MA6300 which does..??? I don't get it.

Why would I want the preamp section of the MA6300? No offense, but did you read my original post? ha ha It's cool though. Well, I'm talking about the MA6300 because it's what the dealer has available for me to borrow. No MC205. So since I have the option of auditioning this Mac in my home, I wanted to see how much of a different a Marantz+McIntosh combo would be versus a pure integrated McIntosh amp. That's all.

**misterdoggy** · 02 February 2009, 08:55 Monday

Originally posted by audioqueso

I'm not sure I quite understand what you mean. The MC205 isolates the front channels so it acts like a 2-channel amp.... as oppose to the 2-channel int. amp MA6300 which does..??? I don't get it.

Why would I want the preamp section of the MA6300? No offense, but did you read my original post? ha ha It's cool though. Well, I'm talking about the MA6300 because it's what the dealer has available for me to borrow. No MC205. So since I have the option of auditioning this Mac in my home, I wanted to see how much of a different a Marantz+McIntosh combo would be versus a pure integrated McIntosh amp. That's all.

The 2 Amps have nothing to do with each other ? so trying out one to see what the other sounds like is absolutely no reference

The MA6300 is a 100 watt channel Preamplifier/Ampflier (integrated) and the MC205 is only a 5 channel multi amplifier which is 200 watts a channel.

The Amplifier is broken up in to 2 sections isolated from each other with the 2 channels apart from the other 3.

Using a Integrated Amplifier for Amplification only ?? Well......

One has nothing what so ever to do with the other.....

**audioqueso** · 02 February 2009, 09:03 Monday

Ahhhhhh... no no no... now I understand what the confusion is.
Using the integrated amp for amplifications with the Marantz is for testing ONLY. IF I bought the MA6300, I wouldn't use it in conjunction with the Marantz. I would use it for music only. HOWEVER, since I've never heard Mac in my house, I wanted to test the MA6300 in two manners. 1) as an integrated amp. And 2) kind of like an amp to my Marantz receiver... so that I can get a feel of what my Marantz receiver may sound like if paired with, let's say, an MC205.

**misterdoggy** · 02 February 2009, 09:10 Monday

I Understand what you are saying, but still 100w versus 200w in a dedicated Power Amp is not the same sound.

**audioqueso** · 02 February 2009, 09:12 Monday

signature sound

**misterdoggy** · 02 February 2009, 09:17 Monday

Go For it, you have your mind made up

**Ken49r** · 02 February 2009, 16:20 Monday

HOWEVER, since I've never heard Mac in my house, I wanted to test the MA6300 in two manners. 1) as an integrated amp. And 2) kind of like an amp to my Marantz receiver... so that I can get a feel of what my Marantz receiver may sound like if paired with, let's say, an MC205.

I know you can run an integrated amp though your Marantz but is just using the amp section from the MA6300 alone even possible? Interesting.

This is a slam dunk conclusion. The MC205. It also isolates the FR FL channels from the other 3 so act as a 2 channel Amp

That's what I was hoping to hear. Very important.

**Briz vegas** · 02 February 2009, 17:13 Monday

That Marantz would be no better than my 7300OSE, in fact it may not be as good as the OSE is an upgrade on the 7300. Your machine is newer, but these days that can mean more processing, more channels and more cost cutting elsewhere. I would borrow a decent pre to test the Mc power amp otherwise you will not get a true picture of its performance- which is why you are thinking about the integrated I guess.

I have previously posted the benefits of using a CJ PV14LS2 pre instead of the marantz as a pre.

**audioqueso** · 02 February 2009, 21:15 Monday

Originally posted by Ken49r

I know you can run an integrated amp though your Marantz but is just using the amp section from the MA6300 alone even possible? Interesting.

Misterdoggy, Briz Vegas,
I think we are not understanding each other. Misterdoggy, yes my mind is made up... on running the test, not on which product I want.. or if with my components, it's even worth it. The point is as Ken brought up, would my test prove anything?ination?

Briz Vegas, Yes, I want to get the most out of my 805's, and (at my budget) I have come to the point of either going with a McIntosh integrated amp, or adding a power amp to my Marantz. I have posted the reasons why I didnt want to get rid of my Marantz. However, I'm asking about this test because the dealer is not exactly close to where I live. So I want to know if borrowing the amp will even prove anything when combined with the Marantz.

Yes, I understand that the MA6300 100 watts is different from a MC205 200 watts, but they're still McIntosh. Do they not carry the same signature sound? Or is this my mistaken assumption... that testing the MA6300 with the Marantz will show the same kind of signature sound that the MC205 with Marantz would give me. Am I mistaken? That I may not know.

**misterdoggy** · 03 February 2009, 04:47 Tuesday

Originally posted by audioqueso

Yes, I understand that the MA6300 100 watts is different from a MC205 200 watts, but they're still McIntosh. Do they not carry the same signature sound? Or is this my mistaken assumption... that testing the MA6300 with the Marantz will show the same kind of signature sound that the MC205 with Marantz would give me. Am I mistaken? That I may not know.

I think the sound will be different

**exSG** · 03 February 2009, 04:56 Tuesday

Hi Audioqueso,

I have the 805s and am currently using Prima Luna P2 to push it. It sounds fantastic for vocals and single instruments but lacks bass punch and doesn't sound good for pop.

Have been considering of changing to Mcintosh power amp as well recently (shelved due to bad times but still worth researching). I was considering the MC501 instead of the MC205. Check this out: http://www.echoloft.com/cgi-bin/buys...num=1233540232

I have a primare I30 which I think can act as a pre-amp; so how does it all connect together? Do I need 1 or 2 of the 501s?

Cheers.

**htsteve** · 03 February 2009, 08:17 Tuesday

Originally posted by exSG

Hi Audioqueso,

I have the 805s and am currently using Prima Luna P2 to push it. It sounds fantastic for vocals and single instruments but lacks bass punch and doesn't sound good for pop.

Have been considering of changing to Mcintosh power amp as well recently (shelved due to bad times but still worth researching). I was considering the MC501 instead of the MC205. Check this out: http://www.echoloft.com/cgi-bin/buys...num=1233540232

I have a primare I30 which I think can act as a pre-amp; so how does it all connect together? Do I need 1 or 2 of the 501s?

Cheers.

exSG,

The MC501 is a monoblock, so you would need two, one for each speaker. Also, while the 501 is a very, very good amp, it might be a bit of overkill for 805's (I have a MC252 powering 802D's, and it is excellent). However, you would be set for amplification for a long time, in case you upgrade the 805's to something larger.

Hope this helps.

**Ken49r** · 03 February 2009, 10:04 Tuesday

Or is this my mistaken assumption... testing the MA6300 with the Marantz will show the same kind of signature sound that the MC205 with Marantz would give me

Is the MA6300 the only 2 ch Mac amp the dealer has to loan?
I don't think you can run the MA6300 without the preamp section, so it would defeat the purpose of your demo.

And if I understand Brizvegas correctly, the Marantz will bottleneck (constrain) the sound of the Mac amp just as my Onkyo did with the Rotel amp. I think you will still appreciate the sound you hear but will enjoy it even more when you replace the Marantz down the line.

**dknightd** · 03 February 2009, 14:42 Tuesday

I think the MA6300 can be used as an integrated, a pre, or a power.
I still think the experiment would be useful.
It would allow you to hear if changing the amp made a difference
You could see if changing the amp made a difference
use your Marantz as pre to mac power
use your Marantz pre to marantz power
You could see if changing the pre made a difference
use mac pre to mac amp
use marantz pre to mac amp
You could see if changing both was more than the sum of the parts by using both as an integrated.
This could suggest wether it was worth buying a better amp (yes the 6300 is not the same as the 205, but it should indicate how much changing the amp will effect the sound). It could also indicate wether the marantz was a bottle neck, or not.
Sounds like all it will cost is time, and could be a useful and interesting experiment.

**DelRay** · 03 February 2009, 18:44 Tuesday

deleted

Testing B&W with McIntosh & Marantz

Testing B&W with McIntosh & Marantz

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