Velodyne DD-12 to complement B&W 600 series or something else?

[ZX10 Guy]

Yep
Absolutely 0 distortion from 50 HZ up pretty darned imppresive. As noted no cabinet resonances. There is distortion under 50 due to the fact that the bypass filter is off. I guess now we have electronic proof (not that it was needed) of the what I was describing before. :T

What graph are you looking at?

Here are the graphs I looked at and to keep things equal, I'll post up the DD15 results running beta software.

ASW850



DD15



And to refocus this whole diatribe that we've been going through. This is what spun me up with your comment...."Velodyne makes great subs but I must concur they are not as "musical" as BW subs. If its wall shaking you want sunfire is even better. Many video fans don't really like BW subs because they lack room shaking low extension, however, they are the most transparent and sonically acurate you can buy. The larger subs are very powerful and expensive, my expirience with the PV1 is that its sonically beautiful but its output is limited even with its 500 watt amp, that's why I bought 2 (so it was expensive anyway!). one thing to consider is that 1 sub unless placed in the center of the listening area may not be enough. if your listening area is not square and you have the sub at one end of the room, you won't know the exact position of the sub, but you will definitely notice that one side of the room is more bass heavy than the other. Another point is if you set your crossover to 80hz the directionaly of the sub is even more noticeable. Happy shopping!"

And this...."No othe speaker maker can boast to beat BW harmonic bass distortion levels (check the 802 specs in that regard) thus to some they sound a little sterile."

[WI Rotel]

As I pointed out The BW do demonstrate distortion below 50. That is due to the bypass filter being turned off. The BW however shows no distortion from 50Hz up which is the point of cabinet resonance, the velodyne does have distortion in that area.

[ZX10 Guy]

As I pointed out The BW do demonstrate distortion below 50. That is due to the bypass filter being turned off. The BW however shows no distortion from 50Hz up which is the point of cabinet resonance, the velodyne does have distortion in that area.

4% THD above 50 Hz with THD dropping at 80 Hz @ 110 dB is no distortion? :roll:

[stewfoo]

Wow!

[WI Rotel]

4% THD above 50 Hz with THD dropping at 80 Hz @ 110 dB is no distortion? :roll:

Sorry, above 50 ops:

[Stevebez]

What does the bypass filter do and why/how does it reduce distortion levels...?

Is the ASW850 a self correcting servo style system as Velodyne ?


EDIT : Found part of the answer ...
"B&W ASW850
The grandaddy of the family. It goes louder than the 825. In-room this should give the DD15/18 a run for their money although the lack of servo will still give higher distortion."

So ASW850 is damn good but higher distortions are due to lack of servo correction.

The fiddly bit of distortion found in Velodynes in higher freq ranges i.e. 60-90 area is due to software not cabinet.

Power compression on the B&W is very impressive - although you have to weigh that against the distortion .. running the velodyne off a less agressive servo setting will allow less compression but more distortion ...

Dunno whats more important at the 20-50hz range - volume (SPL) or accuracy ...?

Think you have to start with accuracy right ? Although its clear human hearing is poor at "hearing" distortion at these lower frequencies - but very good at picking it up at higher frequencies, so maybe distortion here is less important. Who knows ...

Bottom line is two great subs ... which is better is moot in my view and down to personal taste. All I know is I love my DD12 - I like its speed and tightness... I have never even tried it on a less than max servo setting ...

BTW sampling outdoors is the closest you can get to a cheap anechoic chamber - the only issue is you have ground plane interference but in the test it was the same for all the subs...To get a proper anechoic chamber for frequencies around 20hz would be pretty expensive and huge to build I am sure...!

Rgds Steve.

[ZX10 Guy]

What does the bypass filter do and why/how does it reduce distortion levels...?

Is the ASW850 a self correcting servo style system as Velodyne ?


EDIT : Found part of the answer ...
"B&W ASW850
The grandaddy of the family. It goes louder than the 825. In-room this should give the DD15/18 a run for their money although the lack of servo will still give higher distortion."

So ASW850 is damn good but higher distortions are due to lack of servo correction.

The fiddly bit of distortion found in Velodynes in higher freq ranges i.e. 60-90 area is due to software not cabinet.

Power compression on the B&W is very impressive - although you have to weigh that against the distortion .. running the velodyne off a less agressive servo setting will allow less compression but more distortion ...

Dunno whats more important at the 20-50hz range - volume (SPL) or accuracy ...?

Think you have to start with accuracy right ? Although its clear human hearing is poor at "hearing" distortion at these lower frequencies - but very good at picking it up at higher frequencies, so maybe distortion here is less important. Who knows ...

Bottom line is two great subs ... which is better is moot in my view and down to personal taste. All I know is I love my DD12 - I like its speed and tightness... I have never even tried it on a less than max servo setting ...

BTW sampling outdoors is the closest you can get to a cheap anechoic chamber - the only issue is you have ground plane interference but in the test it was the same for all the subs...To get a proper anechoic chamber for frequencies around 20hz would be pretty expensive and huge to build I am sure...!

Rgds Steve.

I have a DD18 and a SMS-1 for the HGS15II I have in my system on order. Can't wait for these things to show up. Since I don't have the sub yet, I thought you could program various "sound" profiles. So if you wanted bigger slam/rumble with movies, you can change the EQ of the sub on the fly.

[WI Rotel]

What does the bypass filter do and why/how does it reduce distortion levels...?

Is the ASW850 a self correcting servo style system as Velodyne ?


EDIT : Found part of the answer ...
"B&W ASW850
The grandaddy of the family. It goes louder than the 825. In-room this should give the DD15/18 a run for their money although the lack of servo will still give higher distortion."

So ASW850 is damn good but higher distortions are due to lack of servo correction.

The fiddly bit of distortion found in Velodynes in higher freq ranges i.e. 60-90 area is due to software not cabinet.

Power compression on the B&W is very impressive - although you have to weigh that against the distortion .. running the velodyne off a less agressive servo setting will allow less compression but more distortion ...

Dunno whats more important at the 20-50hz range - volume (SPL) or accuracy ...?

Think you have to start with accuracy right ? Although its clear human hearing is poor at "hearing" distortion at these lower frequencies - but very good at picking it up at higher frequencies, so maybe distortion here is less important. Who knows ...

Bottom line is two great subs ... which is better is moot in my view and down to personal taste. All I know is I love my DD12 - I like its speed and tightness... I have never even tried it on a less than max servo setting ...

BTW sampling outdoors is the closest you can get to a cheap anechoic chamber - the only issue is you have ground plane interference but in the test it was the same for all the subs...To get a proper anechoic chamber for frequencies around 20hz would be pretty expensive and huge to build I am sure...!

Rgds Steve.

My point exactly, none is trully better than the other, they simply have different charachters, which may or may not appeal to the individual listener. :T

[Stevebez]

I have a DD18 and a SMS-1 for the HGS15II I have in my system on order. Can't wait for these things to show up. Since I don't have the sub yet, I thought you could program various "sound" profiles. So if you wanted bigger slam/rumble with movies, you can change the EQ of the sub on the fly.

Yes you can define different preferences profiles for music / theatre etc etc ... think you have 5 available presets. It is pretty neat although I have not played enough with the system to need this as in full servo mode in my small room I have plenty of thump for movies...

Rgds Steve