Subs

**Andrew Pratt** · 27 October 2003, 00:17 Monday

What's your budget and what will it be mostly used for? By that I mean HT or music?

**Dr C** · 27 October 2003, 00:56 Monday

Hi Andrew - the prices we get in Singapore are normally cheaper than what you guys get in the continental US (as Zeppilin pointed out recently). That said (and taking this into account), I'm looking at a budget of not more than US2k. Could stretch ... but will have to think long and hard.

Need the sub to integrate with my 604S3s/LCR600 and listen about 50;50 between music and HT. Of late - like Sonnie - my music listening has increasingly been thru music/concert DVDs.

**Burke Strickland** · 27 October 2003, 01:21 Monday

REL subs are well regarded as "musical". The MJs are not widely distributed in the US, if at all, so I have no direct experience with them. On the other hand, I have been living with a Velodyne FSR-18 in my system for several years now and am continually impressed with not only its authoritative low end clout, but also its musicality in the lowest octaves. My listening is more than 50 % music, and unlike a lot of folks, I like to use my sub when listening to music, because when the deep bass content is there, I want to both hear and feel it. :>) OTOH, it does a knock out job on movie soundtracks, too.

When my dealer told me the Velo was the last sub I would ever need to buy, I believe he was right! Although it was "top of the line" in its time and was the precursor for the HGS-18, many of its flexible connectivity and control features and favorable performance characteristics have "trickled down" to other models in the line. I haven't heard all of the other models, of course, but I can say that Velodyne does know how to make a high quality sub.

As with all speakers, if possible to arrange, the best test of any sub would be in your own system at home. There are so many variables involved, including (but not limited to) the room's acoustical characteristics, interaction with the rest of your equipment -- and the WAF -- that you will not really know if a particular sub is a good choice until you've set it up and tried it at home.

Good luck -

Burke

PS -- If shipping overseas weren't so costly, I'd suggest looking into some of the "direct sale" sub lines, too, such as Adire and SVS.

**Dr C** · 27 October 2003, 09:48 Monday

Hi Burke - 1st ... ;x( to someone who has an 18-incher in da house (woofer i mean

Reminds me of the times when I was a mobile DJ and had a pair of pro Cerwins stacked on another pair of Cerwin subs, all triamped and capable of 118db SPL EACH. When i was mixing music,

arty: people down the road 200 yds away still got an earful.

But back to the plot. The SVS subs are awesome but the WAF thingy means this is a no-no. Am looking further into the Adire range (did you know that they name their models based on Hindu gods ?) as well as the Hsu VTF3 and B+W675. Anyone with good comments ? Freight for these web based companies is a bummer. ;-x As for the Velo, the Singapore distributor only brings in the CHT8/10 and the SPL800/1000.

The ideal would be a small speaker (like the Sunfire minus the price) thats capable of producing reasonable SPLs at below 25-30Hz. Anyone running the Velo SPL range ? and how does the CHT range compare.

thks all.

**Andrew Pratt** · 27 October 2003, 10:43 Monday

Dr.C as I'm sure you're well aware of there's really no magic behind subwoofers in that you have to follow the laws that dictate that the smaller the box the less efficient they are so you need to add more power. The small micro subs then end up using a really long throw driver combined with hideous amount of power to try and over come the gross inefficenies. The problem is the trade off's almost always mean that the end result is a lesser product then one that doens't have to work as hard to produce the same effect. I guess what I'm saying is the reviews for those micro subs aren't usually all that great if muscle and sound quality are what you're looking for.

The Rels on the other hand have an outstanding reputation for being very musical subs and one day I'd really like to hear one set up properly.

As for SVS they now make a rather nice boxed sub called the B4 that might be worth looking into shipping costs vs buying a comerical unit like the Velo or Rel's etc.

Another option to consider is simply importing the raw driver from Adire and have someone local build the box for you. This might be very cost effective as shipping just the driver shouldn't be to costly and given the savings going DIY paying someone to build a nice box would still end up costing less then something like the larger velo's. If you wanted smaller go for the Tumult in a sealed box with a large amp and like Burke's 18" monster this would be the last sub you ever need.

**Sonnie Parker** · 27 October 2003, 10:44 Monday

Hi Dr. C...

Try 2 Peavey dual 18's in an enclosure, I forget the model number but we used those in our mobile DJ setup. 4 X 18's + 4 X SPG4's with 2 X 15's each. It will give you an extra heart beat!

I have an HGS-15 and love it for movies...it is absolutely awesome! I don't do much music listening but what DVD-A and SACD I've listened to it does a fine job. You can get the HGS-15 discounted down to below $2K I believe. I paid around $1600 US for mine and it retailed for about $2400 or so.

SONNIE

Cedar Creek Cinema

DVD Collection

BFD Comprehensive Setup Guide

**Dr C** · 28 October 2003, 22:24 Tuesday

Thks for all the responses - its been helpful and has steered me (I believe) to a good solution.

Initially I was interested in the REL Q150/201 or MJ Pro100 but was nudged in the Velo direction when I chanced upon the distributor here in Singapore.

Comments to this forum made me look long and hard at SVS and the Hsu (bit of trivia but Dr Hsu was a schoolmate of mine

). I am mighty impressed with the SVS (based in feedback and reputation alone) but freight costs to this corner of the world would have upped the price another 30-50%. I then looked further into Andrew's suggestion about Adire and was quite taken by their products.

The good news is that there is a local distributor. The bad news is that they deal mainly in car audio for Adire (and are also the distributor for Axiom).

The better news is that they are shipping a load of car audio soon and have offered to bring in the subs at Adire's website price, freight free. Gotta wait till end Dec though as it takes 6 weeks to get here.

So now I am quite convinced to get either the Rava or Dharman subs. will probably go for the Rava model (smaller footprint) unless there's anyone who thinks I should do otherwise. My room measures approx 15 ft wide, 20 ft long and 10 ft high. Will the Rava be enough ? or should i go for the Dharman for once and for all ? (How are the Axiom subs by the way ?)

Thks for all the help guys. Am much happier and less poorer :righton:

**Dr C** · 28 October 2003, 22:50 Tuesday

Oh and BTW ... am happy to be supporting a sponsor of this damn fine forum. :5:

Not sure but I could possibly be one of the few (maybe only) to have the Rava/Dharman :beer: in Singapore

**Andrew Pratt** · 29 October 2003, 11:03 Wednesday

I'd get the dharma in a room that size...or have a sub built around the Tumult:yesnod:

**Dr C** · 19 January 2004, 05:44 Monday

The Dharman finally arrived on Sat

Initially Adire said there were no stocks (after confirming the delivery). They arranged to have it air flown (bless their hearts) and I'm now breaking it in.

Build quality was good and it arrived not only double boxed but completely foam packed all round - not like the normal buffers you see roiund the edges only.

Initial listening was good - the sub can go lower than my previous Jamo and Yamaha subs. Even more important was that it was quite musical. Haven't really put it thru a tough test yet - can anyone recommend me anything to try out ?

Will probably need a BFD soon and I intend to use 2 subs as my room acoustics are not ideal and I can't have the Dharman in awkward positions.

The biggest hurdle wasn't bad - the WAF gave it a thumbs up.

Thks Andrew for the Adire suggestion.

**David Meek** · 19 January 2004, 11:19 Monday

Hey Doc, try Vaughan Williams' Symphonia Antarctica (Symphony #7). The third movement has some great organ tones. Another suggestion is the soundtrack to Last Man Standing by Ry Cooder.

Good luck with the Adire!

David - HTGuide flunky
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