Sub for N800

[class a]

Dear all
First of all I like to say this is a great forum and everyone is friendly. Im in the Uk and would like some advice in regards to adding a sub to my 2 channel system. Here in Uk, it is a bit of a taboo in adding a sub to a 2 channel set up hence I am here asking you guys for advice. My current system consist of the following:
Esoteric X0-1, Gryphon Sonata Allegro, Gryphon REF-1 Mono's and B&W N800. My listening lounge opens up to the dinning room and the kitchen with overall size of 5m x 17m and the equipment is along the long wall in the middle of the open plan. I have read alot of great reviews about the Velodyne DD series and was adviced by one of their reps to have a DD15 or dual DD12. My question is, which of the options would be more suitable for my room size and to match the N800?. I have also thought about the B&W ASW 855 but with the flexability of the room EQ from Velodyne, I think I can manage the room's accustics better unless you guys think otherwise. Thanks in advance.
;x(

[beden1]

Look into the Velodyne Contractor Series SC-1250 amp and two SC-15s (package at US retail is $3,000). I just ordered this setup after speaking directly with Velodyne (I'm replacing my two B&W ASW750's, and the dealer was good enough to make the swap at $100 (the B&W subs are only 4 months old, and he has a buyer for them). Go to their web site to read their specs, etc. I'm excited, as it is very good cost effective option.

[class a]

Thanks for the info beden1 but the Contractor Series are not sold in the UK.

[beden1]

I went to the Velodyne site, and to the SC Series, and then hit that link for UK distributors for these products. I didn't see where they said these are not sold in UK?

Redline [Scotland] Ltd.
Unit 11B, 72 Newhaven Rd.
Edinburgh

EH6 5QG
United Kingdom
Tel: 44 131 555 3922
Fax: 44 131 555 3964
Email: info@red-line.co.uk

[class a]

Sorry beden1, I need focal glasses. Redline do have the amp listed but not their sc subs. I will speak to them soon. The SC subs goes down to 22hz where as the DD's goes down to 15hz for the 15 inch.
Cheers

[beden1]

Sorry beden1, I need focal glasses. Redline do have the amp listed but not their sc subs. I will speak to them soon. The SC subs goes down to 22hz where as the DD's goes down to 15hz for the 15 inch.
Cheers

You have to look at the bang for the buck. The engineer at Velodyne told me that under 22hz is not audible, and in his opinion, going this route was a no brainer? You can get (2) 15" for the price of one DD-12.

Your thoughts?

[RobP]

Dont think that information below 22hz isn't important, it is, many recordings have information well below this. Have you ever felt a large Kettle drum in a live Symphonic concert? Well below 22hz.

[bigburner]

Dont think that information below 22hz isn't important, it is, many recordings have information well below this. Have you ever felt a large Kettle drum in a live Symphonic concert? Well below 22hz.

Robert, that's a pretty impressive kettle drum according to the attached chart!

Nigel.

[Kobus]

Nice chart Nigel.

Thanks

Kobus

[beden1]

What's in your Music
The Hz's and the dB's of Real Music!
[Italian version]
Recently there has been quite a discussion on the TNT forum regarding bass performance. One correspondent asked whether a piano got down as low as 50 Hz and it made me realise that most of us don't really know what frequencies various instruments are capable of.
In my research I also found some interesting stuff on the intensity of sound and what we actually mean when we talk about decibels. Though the following is only a small selection it may help solve all those bar room (and forum) arguments...

Audible frequency range of musical instruments and the human voice.

These for obvious reasons are acoustic instruments and unamplified. The frequency refers to fundamental tones only. To give an extreme example a massive church bell such as 'Big Ben' will produce low frequencies you can feel in your gut and yet the harmonics will go way beyond the range of human hearing.

Instrument Frequency range Hz
Piano (concert) 27.50 - 4,186.00
Bass Tuba 43.65 - 349.23
Double Bass 41.20 - 246.94
Cello 65.41 - 987.77
Viola 130.81 -1,174.00
Violin 196.00 - 3,136.00
Clarinet 164.81 - 1,567.00
Flute 261.63 - 3,349.30
French horn 110.00 - 880.00
Trombone 82.41 - 493.88
Trumpet 164.81 - 987.77
Guitar 82.41 - 880.00



Human voice
These are the ranges demanded in classical opera, hence the decimal point accuracy...
Type of voice Frequency range Hz
Bass 87.31 - 349.23
Baritone 98.00 - 392.00
Tenor 130 - 493.88
Contralto 130.81 - 698.46
Soprano 246.94 - 1,174.70


Interesting that a sound system will produce almost all the musical fundamentals of an orchestra without bothering the tweeter... thank Heaven for harmonics!

Sound pressure levels
This is a simple scale based on every day observations similar to the beaufort wind scale. Remember that the decibel is a log scale so that a 3dB increase is a doubling of the actual sound energy, 10dB represents a ten fold increase. However to complicate matters the human ear is not linear and perceives a 10 dB increase as a very approximate doubling of volume.
Sound level (dB) approximate observed equivalent.

Sound proof room, threshold of hearing.
Rustle of leaves in a breeze.
Whisper
Quiet conversation
Conversation at home
Typical outside conversation
Noise in a large shop (no musac ;-))
City street
Noisy office with typing (you need to raise your voice)
Underground railway train passing
Pneumatic Drill at 3 m
Prop aircraft taking off
Jet aircraft taking off - threshold of pain.
Remember that anything over 80 dB can damage hearing over time.

Audible intensity of musical instruments
This is a guide to the sort of sound pressure levels acoustic instruments produce unamplified. No distances were given but I'd guess pretty close - a couple of metres perhaps.
Instrument Range measured in dB
Bass drum 35 - 115
Cymbal 40 - 110
Organ (orchestral) 35 - 110
Piano 60 - 100
Trumpet 55 - 95
Violin 42 - 95


Surprises? Well I never thought a violin could produce more sound than a subway train, and the Piano seems surprisingly lacking in dynamics. It's also sobering to realise that few hi-fi systems will show the full dynamics of the first four on the list - but would you want to be in the room if they did?

Copyright © 1999 Geoff Husband - http://www.tnt-audio.

[RobP]

Robert, that's a pretty impressive kettle drum according to the attached chart!

Nigel.

Well according to your chart I guess it was :lol: ,the piece that made me think of it was a performance of the Superman Fanfare that I heard years ago, a recording of the performance was made and it was found that the ending crescendo was measured down to 16hz.

[class a]

My personal views in regards to the TNT findings is that although we cannot hear very low frequencies, we can feel them and hence it will effect the whole music spectrum and how we listen to music just like the theory behind the use of the B&W 800 series diamond tweeter. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Cheers :T

[RobP]

No correction needed, you are spot on!