B&W dealer charging for delivery

[Race Car Driver]

Wrong! And if any video was involved, even worse.

Huh, guess all the home audio/car audio I have been involved with/selling/installing for the last 8 years must be special home audio then... Funny the post above me mentions of getting almost 40% off... im sure the dealer didnt sell below cost, that wouldnt be smart now would it?
Where did I mention anything about video?

FACT: Quite a bit of Home audio equipment, RETAIL PRICE is ABOUT 50% margin.
FACT: ACCYS for audio equipment is usually >50% Margin.

And this will be my last reply to this dated thread.

Glad you worked out a deal to have everything delieverd.
Enjoy your system. At $50k, im sorry, but that DOES require special treatment from any dealer.

Also, post some pics when its done!

[Andrew M Ward]

Huh, guess all the home audio/car audio I have been involved with/selling/installing for the last 8 years must be special home audio then... Funny the post above me mentions of getting almost 40% off... im sure the dealer didnt sell below cost, that wouldnt be smart now would it?
Where did I mention anything about video?

FACT: Quite a bit of Home audio equipment, RETAIL PRICE is ABOUT 50% margin.
FACT: ACCYS for audio equipment is usually >50% Margin.

And this will be my last reply to this dated thread.

Glad you worked out a deal to have everything delieverd.
Enjoy your system. At $50k, im sorry, but that DOES require special treatment from any dealer.

Also, post some pics when its done!

Part # 1
I sold audio for dacades and never had a 50% margin line, can you name these 50 point lines? (TELL ME)

Part # 2
How come a plumber or electrician is allowed to charge $90.oo an hour plus parts and everybody thinks thats okay?

Short story:
My dear friend is a plumber and makes about $110k a year works 40 hrs a week and has three weeks off a year.... find me an audio store thats got guys making that (you can't)

[Cactus]

I just bought 3 Mark Levinson pieces for $25k and I negotiated hard for almost 40% off, bought when the deal was done the dealer acted like a gentleman and even though it wasn't even discussed, he sent the 3 pieces "shipping on him". !!

How long until this guy goes out of business? You can't stay alive in this industry as a dealer giving away product at cost. This is the type of dealer that makes it hard for companys that are here for the long haul to stay afloat.

It is unfortunate that some people do not realize how good a deal they sometimes get. Alot of this has to do with misinformation on boards like this that give potential buyers mythical facts of profit margins being at 50%.

This Andrew M. Ward guy seems to know his stuff. I should buy him a beer sometime if we ever cross paths.

[Gump]

Part # 1
I sold audio for dacades and never had a 50% margin line, can you name these 50 point lines? (TELL ME)

Part # 2
How come a plumber or electrician is allowed to charge $90.oo an hour plus parts and everybody thinks thats okay?

Short story:
My dear friend is a plumber and makes about $110k a year works 40 hrs a week and has three weeks off a year.... find me an audio store thats got guys making that (you can't)

Hey Andrew,

They've started a Classe section under the Manufacturer's Thread section. FYI. (brief diversion, sorry---carry on)

[misterdoggy]

Everyone is entitled to make the best deal possible.

Most of the time I find deals and can expect 20% + on what I buy. I search the internet and search different countries for the best deal. I buy by correspondance all over the world and look for the best deals.

B&W from East Germany, etc etc

If you get a demo you can get real interesting reduction.

In small countries there is more opportunity to get closer to a small company that represents the big Makers and cut a deal.

You are not gonna find that in the States though. From what I see ad hear in the States most people are happy with 10 to 15 %.

[Race Car Driver]

Part # 1
I sold audio for dacades and never had a 50% margin line, can you name these 50 point lines? (TELL ME)

Part # 2
How come a plumber or electrician is allowed to charge $90.oo an hour plus parts and everybody thinks thats okay?

Short story:
My dear friend is a plumber and makes about $110k a year works 40 hrs a week and has three weeks off a year.... find me an audio store thats got guys making that (you can't)

Ok I lied, that wasnt my last post.
But I really dislike taking threads off topic around here.

The fact is I am looking right now, totally at random two different speakers.

Retail of 1750 and cost of 878
Retail of 1500 and cost of 770

Im not saying companys make 50% margin at the end of the month/year etc, im not talking NOPAT, I never said anything of the sort. Who is talking about plumbing? Speaking of which, I need to call one, my drain in basement is a little slow. Thanks for the reminder.

My point is simply this, its nothing new and has been brought up before on here by others.
In this industry, the majority of the time cost of home audio is about half of MSRP. I would think that would be apparent to anyone who does a little shopping on the internet. Its plain as day, how else can one get $6000 Aragon mono blocks for $3000? I never mentioned video, i never mentiond plumbing...
Is it right for companies to sell for just above cost and undercut other dealers? Not IMO, it does no one any good........ unless your the buyer.
Reasons I myself both love/hate Ebay.

[misterdoggy]

Another important note

If you buy well, you will sell well. If you buy something new and pay 100%, then you want to turn around and sell it a few months later, you can expect to get 50-60% of its value.

After all its used, not from a dealer etc etc

But if you're smart and pay 60% of the retail price, then a year or even 2 later you can practically recuperate your $$.

I don't buy anything unless I get a deal. Thats my rule of thumb. I might have a lot invested in my system $70k ++, but whenever I resell any part of it, I get either what I paid or near what I paid. Its money in something rather than losing 50% immediately.

I just sold a Mark Levinson 380S, that I bought several months ago for $200 more than I paid for it. I sold A Krell FPB 400 Cx I bought at the end of last year for $250 more than I paid.

The trick is also to remain in top stuff as it is always desirable. A N800 or N801 or 800D or 801D will always sell well for instance.

[nikos]

[QUOTE=Andrew M Ward]Part # 1
I sold audio for dacades and never had a 50% margin line, can you name these 50 point lines? (TELL ME)

VELODYNE!!!!

[Andrew M Ward]

[QUOTE=nikos]

Part # 1
I sold audio for dacades and never had a 50% margin line, can you name these 50 point lines? (TELL ME)

VELODYNE!!!!

So that's one... (I wasn't aware of) but you're going to base an entire industry on Velodyne's margin grab? So based on that you believe audio companies work at 50 points? because Velodyne does?

Just curious... anymore you're aware of?

[nikos]

[QUOTE=Andrew M Ward]

So that's one... (I wasn't aware of) but you're going to base an entire industry on Velodyne's margin grab? So based on that you believe audio companies work at 50 points? because Velodyne does?

Just curious... anymore you're aware of?

I didnt base anything or make any assumptions... you did.
I was just (helping) answer you question of who is selling for 50% and i offered an example that does 50+ I do see with your rhetorical question that someone might take that statement as the norm and not the exception.

I most definately don't believe that audio companies work at 50 points!

The norm is 40%. Some a little more on some items (parts etc) and usually with some kind of downpayment and a net 15 compared to net 30 terms.
This is for hardware. Peripherals such as cables etc is where 50% is the norm and not the exception.

N

[caleb]

Absolutely amazing how these threads get way off topic and personal as well.

BTW - I have just bought a pair of 800D and an HTM2D - the dealer is: -

1) Delivering them (about 40 mins drive).

2) Taking them up a flight of stairs to my theatre.

3) Setting them up for me.

4) Taking my 802s trade-in down these stairs and back to the shop.

NO CHARGE.

I also run my own company and for an order of this price, I'd take a plane to get it to the client.

[Race Car Driver]

800D.... droooool......

My dream is a pair of 800s

[misterdoggy]

BTW - I have just bought a pair of 800D and an HTM2D - the dealer is: -

Taking my 802s trade-in down these stairs and back to the shop.

Caleb,

Congratulations on your move up. !!!

I don't have the space for the 800D. Everybody says they need room.

Good Luck and Enjoy !!

[Andrew M Ward]

Ok I lied, that wasnt my last post.
But I really dislike taking threads off topic around here.

The fact is I am looking right now, totally at random two different speakers.

Retail of 1750 and cost of 878
Retail of 1500 and cost of 770

Im not saying companys make 50% margin at the end of the month/year etc, im not talking NOPAT, I never said anything of the sort. Who is talking about plumbing? Speaking of which, I need to call one, my drain in basement is a little slow. Thanks for the reminder.

My point is simply this, its nothing new and has been brought up before on here by others.
In this industry, the majority of the time cost of home audio is about half of MSRP. I would think that would be apparent to anyone who does a little shopping on the internet. Its plain as day, how else can one get $6000 Aragon mono blocks for $3000? I never mentioned video, i never mentiond plumbing...
Is it right for companies to sell for just above cost and undercut other dealers? Not IMO, it does no one any good........ unless your the buyer.
Reasons I myself both love/hate Ebay.

Thanks for the information...

BTW:
I can think of several reasons why one could get Aragon amps at half price and none of the reasons have anything to do with dealer cost... for the same reason a person can get Mark Levinson amps for 40% off... :rofl:

Forgive the plumbing part, I didn't realize we were talking about value...

[Cactus]

I can think of several reasons why one could get Aragon amps at half price

Yeah, the company doesn't exist anymore! Klipsch bought em, couldn't do anything with em, blew out what they had laying in the warehouse gathering dust and called it quits.

[Andrew M Ward]

Yeah, the company doesn't exist anymore! Klipsch bought em, couldn't do anything with em, blew out what they had laying in the warehouse gathering dust and called it quits.

Darn-it!
You stole the first half of my punch-line
The second half was

Mark Levinson amplifiers haven't garnered full price since Harman purchased them, so it's not uncommon to see an $8000.oo Levinson go (if it goes at all) for around half price... People don't see Levinson amps as being worth $8k and $9k they see them as worth about half that... it's all the brand name cache' and market value that’s left in a deteriorated Mark Levinson product....

point being

Some brands have street value and market prowess so the dealer can get close to 100% of the suggested retail price... other brands fall off the wagon and get whored out or sold or lost along the way.... and lose value regardless of real or imagined retail price or real or imagined dealer margins...

I could go on (and on)

So it never really matters how much margin the dealer makes, it's really about how much street value the product has, hence DeBeers making no less than 700% margin ... as the world wide controlling distributor of diamonds

street value (slang for fill in the blank) ______________ !

[misterdoggy]

Darn-it!
Mark Levinson amplifiers haven't garnered full price since Harman purchased them, so it's not uncommon to see an $8000.oo Levinson go (if it goes at all) for around half price... People don't see Levinson amps as being worth $8k and $9k they see them as worth about half that... it's all the brand name cache' and market value that’s left in a deteriorated Mark Levinson product....

Andrew,
As a satisfied Mark Levinson owner, I find your statement about "worth" a bit heavy handed.

I did preface the fact that this was a deal found in Europe where EVERYTHING is DOUBLE American pricing .

So MY 1/2 price is is about 15% off of the American Price.

You Americans shouldn't Cry so much, Us Europeans and Australians are paying the Brunt of Tax Heavy, Import Heavy Prices. We pay almost twice as much as you do, and you Cry twice as hard ;x(

No need to Jump all over Mark Levinson Brand as IT IS THE SAME for every single brand ie: Krell, Parasound, Meridian, Lexicon, Ayre, Wadia etc etc. They are all TWICE THE PRICE IN EUROPE and AUSTRALIA.

Now that means its also worth double when its resale time IN EUROPE + AUSTRALIA.

And your statement about "worth" is also not relevant, because whats worth the price of a Halcro, Goldmund, and other high end. Whats worth $20k an Amp and UP.

Try to tell me Mark Levinson's 33's which weigh 900 lbs for the pair aren't the finest Amplifiers ever built (or one of them)

I had a Krell FPB 400 CX and MY first hand experience, is that I preferred the NEW Mark Levinson sound. Personal preference.

Now, I can, and have, found deals on ALL those brands Krell, Parasound, Lexicon and even B&W.

I paid 7500 Euros for a pair of 802D's NEW which retail for 12,000 Euros.

Now are you going to say, well the B&W brand isn't worth 12,000 ($15000) because I know how to get a deal on them.

Seems to me, you are ready to say anything to defend what you think, included explanations about why certain brands aren't "worth it".

sincerely
Party Offended
Doggy ;-x

[misterdoggy]

ps Everyone has a "bad" opinion about some Top End product, and for sure there will be someone on HTGuide that will own and take offense to that opinion and think the opposite.

Bad mouthing Mark Levinson, or Krell or any major player who makes fine products only will insult someone who has spent a $$ Fortune on what they think is great.

Everyone knows that at the top of the food chain, its really not about what is better, or whats worth the money, its really about finding YOUR taste in products.

Everyone will experiment and come up with what they like best. If I made a blanket statement that the B&W isn't worth it, or doesn't live up to it, 100% of the B&W group here would be up in Arms.

I think a little tact and diplomacy is needed when interacting with other people who have different tastes than you do. Try to be respectful and that's what you will get back.

[JKalman]

You Americans shouldn't Cry so much, Us Europeans and Australians are paying the Brunt of Tax Heavy, Import Heavy Prices. We pay almost twice as much as you do, and you Cry twice as hard ;x(

It is too bad you were offended, but that is no reason to generalize all Americans under the category of those who "cry so much" and "cry twice as hard". That is just prejudice to me...

[Andrew M Ward]

Andrew,
As a satisfied Mark Levinson owner, I find your statement about "worth" a bit heavy handed.

I did preface the fact that this was a deal found in Europe where EVERYTHING is DOUBLE American pricing .

So MY 1/2 price is is about 15% off of the American Price.

You Americans shouldn't Cry so much, Us Europeans and Australians are paying the Brunt of Tax Heavy, Import Heavy Prices. We pay almost twice as much as you do, and you Cry twice as hard ;x(

No need to Jump all over Mark Levinson Brand as IT IS THE SAME for every single brand ie: Krell, Parasound, Meridian, Lexicon, Ayre, Wadia etc etc. They are all TWICE THE PRICE IN EUROPE and AUSTRALIA.

Now that means its also worth double when its resale time IN EUROPE + AUSTRALIA.

And your statement about "worth" is also not relevant, because whats worth the price of a Halcro, Goldmund, and other high end. Whats worth $20k an Amp and UP.

Try to tell me Mark Levinson's 33's which weigh 900 lbs for the pair aren't the finest Amplifiers ever built (or one of them)

I had a Krell FPB 400 CX and MY first hand experience, is that I preferred the NEW Mark Levinson sound. Personal preference.

Now, I can, and have, found deals on ALL those brands Krell, Parasound, Lexicon and even B&W.

I paid 7500 Euros for a pair of 802D's NEW which retail for 12,000 Euros.

Now are you going to say, well the B&W brand isn't worth 12,000 ($15000) because I know how to get a deal on them.

Seems to me, you are ready to say anything to defend what you think, included explanations about why certain brands aren't "worth it".

sincerely
Party Offended
Doggy ;-x

No offence intended...
I re-read my post and stand by it...

Products are only worth what people are willing to pay for them, as you youself even showed in buying gear for what you were willing to pay...

Some products are just not getting anything even close to their posted retail ticket these days and Levinson is one of them, i'm simply using it as an example to make my point, not to belittle it as a product.

I happen to own several Mark Levinson pieces 8)

and this has nothing to do with Europe it's world-wide (Lighten-up Francis)

[misterdoggy]

No offence intended...
I re-read my post and stand by it...

Products are only worth what people are willing to pay for them, as you youself even showed in buying gear for what you were willing to pay...

Some products are just not getting anything even close to their posted retail ticket these days and Levinson is one of them, i'm simply using it as an example to make my point, not to belittle it as a product.

I happen to own several Mark Levinson pieces 8)

and this has nothing to do with Europe it's world-wide (Lighten-up Francis)

Andrew,

What does lighten up Francis mean ? I'm English ??

The original point you were making was about margins and 50%.

I'm not willing to pay 100% for ANYTHING - Krell, B&W all of them.

There are deals to be had and if you search you will find them.

Some people like to buy from the guy down the block, because they know if they have a problem where they can go.

Some people (me) search the world for the best deal as there are bargains to find.

Its not a matter of some products are worth their retail ticket of not.

I only buy something near to the price I will be able to sell it.

Its my nature :T

[kurtholz]

Isn't it funny how people have different ideologies, personally, i have no problem paying retail or paying enough for a dealer/seller etc to make a living, i think it's there right,they spend hours learning there trade, and they know i will pay for there services, and i have been treated excellent in return,i get great service, great advice, and fast service,they make a profit, everyone wins

i really don't think it's wrong for a man to make a living, in fact, for myself, i think i should make a very fine living, i deliver an excellent product, stand behind what i do, and fullfill a need.

i get people all the time trying to beat me up on price on items on my website, items that are literally one-of-a kind, and priced fair, me making a profit, the buyer getting his money's worth, these people inevitably don't get a quality or rare item, as i rarely even respond to there emails, or tell them to go someplace else,they get what they think is a steal, when in fact they get what they deserve, an item of lesser value,flawed, or a complete fake.plus they don't get the valuable time of someone who will spend the time to further there education in my field, they don't get first notice when a fantastic piece comes available,they end up with a collection of average items,( we are talking antiques not audio)

i am also willing to pay a fair price for my items,i am not a beat you down to nothing buyer,i think it is a very poor way of living,i don't have to spend hours scouring the planet for a deal, i can make one phone call, or one visit, i get treated very well, because i am reasoable, case in point my 802D's, retail $12,000, i asked the dealer what i could get them for, he responed $9000, this was Friday afternoon, i wrote him a check, he broke them in for me over a week period, had then delivered on a Saturday morning, without even asking the tech tweaked the settings on my Krell to fit the new speakers so i got instant enjoyment,they took my old 803n's to the garage, i did nothing but enjoy,

i am now in the first stages of building a nice 2 channel system for my office,tube based,small, but musical, my dealer doesnt carry all of the items i will need to accompliush my goals, but he has advised me on what brands would be a good choice,and sent me to some of his contacts.they are treating me excellent,even willing to send me items to audition first, because they know i will be painless.that is value, i will end up with what i want, who i buy from will make a profit

same thing in building, i get what i call "professional shoppers" looking to build there dream house, and looking to have someone do it at a rock bottom price, i am always happy to send them down the road, they will most likely find some new guy, desperate builder about to go under, or one who uses sub-par contractors who are cheap, and the people get what they pay for,

a cheap house, built by flunkies, that reflects what they paid for, they think they are savvy and ripped there builder, but what they got was junk.and they live in it for years, i prefer paying for the best, i enjoy the best, i appreciate the best, i don't want to be looked on as a person who is only out to rip the next seller,

i won't say i pay retail everytime, but i have no problem with who i deal with to make a profit,i think they should,but i prefer quality over cheap price,and i get treated excellent at places i deal at, car's,audio,etc,because i allow the seller to make his living,the enjoyment of having the best is long overshadowed by a sub par product at a cheap price.

a good deal is a deal where everyone wins,

my two cents

Kurt

[misterdoggy]

Respectfully Kurt,

I didn't say I wanted someone to not make a profit. Deals don't always come at the expense of someone not making a living.

Your local guy where you paid retail, will give you service, guarantee's, the comfort of knowing who you are dealing with in front of you. Someone you can count on and go to with a problem.

When I search the world over, I lose that service. But in return I get a cheaper price.

I will give you an example of how it works. I bought my 802d's from a dealer in East Germany who is in the middle of nowhere. He would never have had ANY sale had I not bought from him.

1. He still makes a profit 2. He increases his buying power by selling more pieces, therefore buys better. He makes his profit in the quantity. ie: 20 pieces a year at 2000 profit or 50 pieces a year at 1000 profit. The 50 piece seller makes more money, can offer cheaper prices because he has more buying clout.

Not to mention no one has any money locally in East Germany to buy 802D's, so he wouldn't have a business at all.

You could say I have very good Karma because I am helping East Germans make a living. !!

This is just one example. I have 2 markets and wear 2 hats. Im a retailer and a wholesaler. Being a wholesaler I am abel to buy in quantity and offer all my clients better pricing both in retail and wholesale. I do what I have to to make the sale and am happy as long as I come out in the plus.

This is how the world turns. Everybody is happy in my world.

And everybody is also happy in your world. Its just my world everything is cheaper than your world.

note: A small local dealer who sells only a few 802D's a year who doesn't have buying clout can't compete, and can only offer "service" with his retail price. There is nothing wrong doing business with him either.

I just look at it this way. Anything that costs more than a few thousand dollars ie: stereo, car, Art etc is money "placed" or "invested" and I like to see the same come out as I put in at the end of the day.

[Andrew M Ward]

Andrew,

What does lighten up Francis mean ? I'm English ??
:T

"Lighten-up Francis"
it's a Bill Murray line from "stripes"

I was trying to be funny, and I am aware you're not French... perhaps I'm not as funny as I think I am (but it cracked me up) :W

I think we're about to get scolded for being so far off topic...

[misterdoggy]

I will lighten up....... No problema

Just spent a fortune on Levinson 432 + 433 and 326S and would like to think I made good choices.

[Andrew M Ward]

I will lighten up....... No problema

Just spent a fortune on Levinson 432 + 433 and 326S and would like to think I made good choices.

At 40% off you made a great choice!!! 8O

The 320 and 326 are two excellent 2-channel pre's, one of my very best buddies was on the No.326S design team... we frequently sit down to that preamplifier and give it a go...

[JKalman]

Here is a quote from a recent interview of Michael Fremer from ToneAudio e-journal issue 4 (online PDF) that seems applicable here:

One on line maniac, who absolutely hates me and has branded me a crook, wrote that I am "terrified" to reveal how much I paid for the Caliburn. No I'm not but here's a guy who used to be a dealer, so he got everything at 40 or 50 points percent less than retail, for sale and for his own use. That's okay, but if I get a better deal, somehow, I'm a "crook." No one goes into audio reviewing to make a financial "killing."

Michael Fremer

[kurtholz]

hey mister dodgy guy from France :-)

I have heard the Levinson line, incredible, unfortunately i heard it after a significant Krell buy, but i am doing a 2 channel system for my office, and Levinson will be a part of it

who cares what it costs, if you like it, it's a good deal

go buy a $60,000 car, hammer them down to $50,000 ( which won't happen), we don't blink an eye, in 4 or 5 years it's barely worth anything, and we do it again and again,

take audio, so you pay retail,or you are tough and get a 10% -25% discount, at worst it drops to 50% - 60% of value in 10 years,no maintenece, no new tires,no oil changes, etc, audio is a significantly better investment.and it doesnt cost $70 every time you drive it for 20 hours,( gas ) :-)

if you buy it for your business,it's a write off, i mean, ya gotta have office equipment,

:-)

hope to see some pics of your Levinson set-up soon

regards

Kurt

[Andrew M Ward]

hey mister dodgy guy from France :-)

I have heard the Levinson line, incredible, unfortunately i heard it after a significant Krell buy, but i am doing a 2 channel system for my office, and Levinson will be a part of it

who cares what it costs, if you like it, it's a good deal

go buy a $60,000 car, hammer them down to $50,000 ( which won't happen), we don't blink an eye, in 4 or 5 years it's barely worth anything, and we do it again and again,

take audio, so you pay retail,or you are tough and get a 10% -25% discount, at worst it drops to 50% - 60% of value in 10 years,no maintenece, no new tires,no oil changes, etc, audio is a significantly better investment.and it doesnt cost $70 every time you drive it for 20 hours,( gas ) :-)

if you buy it for your business,it's a write off, i mean, ya gotta have office equipment,

:-)

hope to see some pics of your Levinson set-up soon

regards

Kurt

If you can get 40% off Levinson you'll be on world wide par... otherwise???
i'd check other brands at competitive prices and very competitive performance.... which is all that counts (right?)

No?

[kurtholz]

Hey Andrew

nothing is in stone yet, i am very willing to take the advice from someone who is in the trade,feel free to email me anytime, happy to chat about my options

regards''

Kurt

[misterdoggy]

Well guys while we are all taking about savings my brand new several days old 326S has a Hiss in the right channel in SSP mode (surround bypass) and a serious noise at startup and mode switch.

I'm sending the sucker back for repair and may even consider the step up to the 32 while I can still maybe get full credit for the 326. Anyone with experience on the 32?

I've moved everythig around in the living room and got the 802D's out of Caddy corner floating in the room and backs to the wall and the sound has definitely improved. What great speakers they are even using the lex mc12b as a 2 channel stereo the 802D's shine.

Upsetting about the 326S.

Remember once equipment is in Australia or Europe it has more resale value. There are 2 markets: gray where people have done something to switch to 230-240v and original 230-240v.

Original 230-240v has better resale because distributers will be happy to repair and some don't touch gray models. Secondly, many people are scarred of anything that has been played with.

Lastly ANY 230-240v model HAS to come in and pay both a heavy shipping fee and Heavy taxes. This MUST get added on to the price.

So to enjoy the same Equipment as in the States you have to pay in my opinion about 40% more than American prices. Or do the gray deal and don't worry about resale which I don't do anymore as you really can't sell something easily and end up cutting your price.

[Andrew M Ward]

Hey Andrew

nothing is in stone yet, i am very willing to take the advice from someone who is in the trade,feel free to email me anytime, happy to chat about my options

regards''

Kurt

Well,
I'm kind of an ass (I guess)
I just got done chatting with my friends and they clearly identified me as an ass on this forum... (gosh the truth hurts)

neither of the two Levinson No.326 guys I referred to still work there anymore (Boston Acoustics & Russ-sound these days) but they both feel compelled to correct my rude behavior...

if you still want to play with me, my mom says it's Okay...