B&W 704 and HTM7 amp options

[rnoble]

Hi,

I am considering a pair of 704's with a HTM7 center. I was just wondering what you guys thought of amplification. I have an opportunity to maybe buy a Rotel 1080 pretty cheap but I have questions. Let me explain.

I realise that Rotel has a very close relationship with B&W however I had an opportunity to demo something a little more expensive and was blown away by the amount of detail and resolution that this more expensive amp had. I felt it lacked a bit of the bass of the Rotel but made up for it with oodles of clarity/resolution/whatever you want to call it.

Have any others found that they need to 'upgrade' from Rotel to something better? Or is the match between B&W and Rotel what gives it the magic? Can this real by ear fine tuned match that is conducted be beat just by paying a little more for an amp? If so how much does one have to spend to beat it?

Regards

[BlazeMaster]

I have the 704s w/ HTM7 and driven by a Rotel1075(120x5) amp and am pretty happy with the results that I was getting. Unfortunatly, I don't have the funds to afford anything more expensive than the Rotels, so I didn't bother listening the speakers with anything that I couldn't afford.

[chinets]

For the time being Until I upgrade my amp. which will be in three weeks I have currently the Rotel 1065 running the Front N803 and HTM1 and the rears are N804 with a ASW 850 Sub. I am upgrading most probably to the Rotel 1095/1098 combo which is a 5x200W or I might go for the Krell 5x200W. I still have a few days to make up my mind. By the way Rotel 1065 can get the 703 to put aout some mean bass I had the 703F and 704R with the Asw750 Sub and they were Rocking so if you decide on the 7 series go for it ,as I loved them but do not use the HTM7 as your center as they don't match well with the FST of the 703..I would recommend the HTM1 any day and that is My honest opinion. Good Luck !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JetFlyGuy]

I do not want to disparage at all, but my first foree' into HT was 704s with an HTM7, pwered by a Rotel 1075, and I was very disappointed. When I would watch a movie, the music sounded beautiful and rich, but the vocals (or anything from the center) sounded very strained and harsh. In an effort to isolate the problem, I actually put one of the 704s in the center position to see if it helped, and it did not... The only thing I can conclude from this is that that speaker, in my room, with that amp, was not well suited to play vocals that sounded good to my ear!) The next step I made upgraded the room acoustics, all speakers, processor and amp, so I can't really say which one made the biggest difference. I realise all this may not be too helpful, so I would conclude by saying that based on my experience, the HTM7 can be very clinical with a Rotel amp, so make every effort to audition it in your room before commiting to buy it. Hope this helps -Josh

[csuzor]

I have the 703 (R/L), 704 (sR/sL), HTM7 (C), and Rotel 1068/1075.
I like the combination, but I feel the HTM7 is the weak link in the front stage.

After reading this post, I lined up 703/704/HTM7, and with an sacd that has beautiful vocals only on center channel (Caroline Henderson: Don't Explain), I compared all 3.

The HTM7 sounds a little "stumpy", "grundgy", "boxy", without enough bass presence.
The 704 has better bass, but very similar vocals signature.
The 703 has much better bass, and tighter vocals, it reveals little details in the voice that make it sound more real. Must be the advantage of the FST.

In some music passages with the acoustic-bass coming from center channel, switching to the HTM7 was very difficult: I could hardly hear it! The representation on the 703 was superb, and the 704 did a reasonable job with it. I wonder whether a powered sub will fix this shortcoming in the HTM7 (crossover around 60Hz)...

Day-to-day though, the HTM7 does a fine job for TV and dialog, but needs careful positioning: nothing above it, otherwise it sounds "muffled". I don't think the adjectives "very strained and harsh" are appropriate, but "boxy" and "muffled". And with mch music, the overall effect with all speakers being driven is satisfying, the L/R channels partially mask shortcomings in the HTM7 (most mch music is mixed that way, perhaps knowing that very few people have 3 identical speakers up-front).

So where to from here? a 3rd 703 for the center? or HTM1 or HTM3S? I am afraid the front stage may sound incoherent for mch music with HTM1 or HTM3S... and the 703 is a little tall to stand in front of the screen... no decision yet, any advice?

Finally, to answer the original question here, I am happy with the 1068/1075 combo, I won't be changing that anytime soon.

[chinets]

Cszor...The HTM1 matches the 703 perfect in FST and sound ,actually perfect harmony. All you have to do is put the Db's of the your two front 703 on a higher Db such as 8 or wahtever and also put the Rear 704 at higher Db's and the vocals of the center will sing and the rest of the 7 series will do the musical part because your center will be set as 0 !!. I had this set up and I almost cried when I upgraded because my present Amp. does not match my new 8 series. And to add to that the Rotel 1065 or 1068 will be great with the 7 series and really flow well together. The horrible link you have is that HTM7 and must go. The HTM7 sounds boxy...sorry that is my honest opinion

[csuzor]

Anyone looking to sell their HTM1 in Cherrywood (to upgrade to HTM3S or higher)??

[chinets]

Dear Csuzor, I hope you can get a HTM1 with your set up, because I know you will not be dissapointed. I had that set up and it was incredible. The HTM1 compliments the 700 series especially the 703's because of the FST ,and actually in HT it sound way better in this combination than the 803 and 804 which I have now. For HT amazing and for Music just perfect in my opinion. I hope you find a HTM1 and don't worry about what colour as they don't make them anymore, and if you hide it in a rack on top of your T.V. or under it in a shelf etc. the colour will not put you off as I had that combo with my 7 series all the speakers 703/704 were ash black and my HTM1 was dark cherry and I was not bothered at all as it was hidden above my T.V. ! Now that I have all Dark cherry 803/804 and the HTM1 also cherry, but I still can't see the colour of the center as it is in a rack so it did not make a difference!!! Wishing all the best to find one..You will not be dissapointed ,and you will be wearing the biggest smile on your face when you combine it with your awsome set up. Good Luck!!!!

[chinets]

Dear Csuzor, By the way, Love your BMW x5 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have the same one in Black too, with a Black interior. I love my car, how do you like it? I can see from the picture that you are really proud of it. We are Lucky to have this awsome SUV In my opinion!!!

[weijst]

Excuse me, but that's not the X5. The X5 is, as you mentioned, a SUV. Csuzor's BMW looks more like the 5 serie touring... Kind of staggering that you're not able to distinguish one from the other, considering you claim to have one... (no offence of course )

[chinets]

From that picture it looks just like the X5....dunno but it sure looks like mine from behind in that picture..maybe you are right. Just the angle of that picture makes it look like it. Is that an x5 Mr. Cszor?????

[kylek100]

Dear Csuzor, By the way, Love your BMW x5 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have the same one in Black too, with a Black interior. I love my car, how do you like it? I can see from the picture that you are really proud of it. We are Lucky to have this awsome SUV In my opinion!!!

Yes, I second weijst. That is quite obviously not an X5...

[csuzor]

No guys, it's a 3 series touring. And I am happy with it.

I have a proposal for used HTM1 for 1600EUR (US$2000)... seems expensive, doesn't it?

[KvHagedorn]

When the Nautilus HTM2 was only $1000, we had a few customers move up to that from the HTM7 or CDM Center, since the improvement was real and the additional cost was not too great. Those who go for a pair of 703s over 804s, however, are usually stretching their resources as it is, and $2000 for the HTM1 or $2500 for the HTM3s is just out of the question for them. One of my wish list items to the guys at B&W is a $1500 3way center channel in the 700 series (doubt it's going to happen, but we can dream.)

As to amplification, better is always better, but there comes a point where you wonder what you are doing messing around with 703s if you have something like a Bryston 4BSST power amp running them. As a sensible price point amplifier, the Rotels or Anthems match up pretty well with the 703 set, and both are darned good for the money. I would look at the 800 series as my next upgrade before looking into more expensive amps.

[csuzor]

One of my wish list items to the guys at B&W is a $1500 3way center channel in the 700 series.

I asked the question to the regional product manager, and he said (unfortunately) their marketing intelligence was indicating that another centre channel would not have its place in the 7 series, with a conflicting price to similar 8 series centre channels... he advised a HTM1 or HTM3S to match 703.
I would immediately buy a 3-way HTM7-FST at 1500 (same price as 703)... a matching design style to the 7 series has high WAF. I don't really like the speaker grill which completely hides the front of the 8 series, and leaving it off is not an option with kids.

[misterdoggy]

Well guys I had the Htm7 and was real disappointed with it. There was no detail, and I changed to the htm3s at the advice from B&W technician. Living in Europe I have the luxury of being able to pick up the phone and to talk to the top guys in the Technical department in England at B&W who said to me that I should consider the Center channel the most important speaker in a HOME THEATER. They are always friendly available and really spend as much time with you as you want. I have the htm3s now and can say that its as though I was in the dark and now I am in the light. I didnt know what I was missing. From what Ive read the htm3s approaches the older htm1 and would say that is a good alternative. Ive recently upgraded to 802D s and now am wondering whether or not to switch to a htm2D to be more in alignment with the 802Ds. When will it end. Will I never be happy. Will I really hear a difference between the htm3S and the htm2D when coupled with the 802Ds ?

[BlazeMaster]

my guess is that you probably will, misterdoggy. I do own the HTM7 myself, and fairly happy with it, coming from a LCR600. Is it the best center channel that B&W makes, definitly not, but like others said, it gets the job done with casual listening. If you're more critical about HT performance, then I'd suggest the HTM3S and then eventually upgrade the 704s to the 804S as well somewhere down the road. I currently have the same fronts(704s w/ HTM7) and my plan is to upgrade the 704s to 804S in about a year and upgrade the HTM7 to HTM4S/HTM3S.

[bigburner]

misterdoggy, you say that you have access to the top guys in the technical department at B&W in England. Do they have an email address? It seems to me that a lot of the questions raised in this forum would be answered if we had access to these people.

[misterdoggy]

misterdoggy, you say that you have access to the top guys in the technical department at B&W in England. Do they have an email address? It seems to me that a lot of the questions raised in this forum would be answered if we had access to these people.

Bigburner,

When I "call" them on the phone, and ask for Technical Advice, they put me thru to the Technicians. One time I got the top guy in the dept who was doing demonstrations for other technical people, another time I spoke with the head of European Sales for Classe Amps, but always fall upon someone with real knowledge of the product line. The answers are always spot right on advice ie: htm3s is best with 804S and 803S, while the htm4S is the perfect match for the 805S because same timbre same amount of speakers and there won't be any conflict or difference etc etc. They also have a great knowledge of Rotel, Classe and B&W's from years past.

I call (44) 1903 221800 in Sussex England, and ask for technical advice for BW speakers. 100% get help, advice from the people that are working on the insides of these speakers for years. They are always patient, polite, and you exhaust the subject by the end of the conversation. Their email is info@bwspeakers.com