Carver amps?

[AndrewM]

So I think I'm in need of getting some seperate amps for my setup, now I want to try and keep the prices semi-resonable. I've looked at the Marantz monoblocks both the 500 and the 700. I've also looked at the B&K that I mentioned in another message. Then I started looking at getting some used amps so I hit ebay and audiogon and I was looking at some used Krell amps like the KAV150's which are still pricey, then I saw Carver amps for sale which are very low priced by comparison to just about everything else I mentioned above. Are these a good deal, or will I be disapointed by the sound? I'm driving a set of Adire kit 281's with them, and the amp will be getting its signal from a Denon 3300 for now. I'm mostly interested in this for stereo music listening now, but eventually to the whole home theater setup. So I need some help and I know everybody will have a good opinion here. Thanks a bunch.
Andrew

[ThomasW]

They're ok, nothing special as far as detail is concerned. If your planning to have a continuous upgrade path, then these could later be used for effects or a sub. My opinion is that's where they eventually belong.

I'd suggest a good look at the Acurus line. They're are usually many available at reasonable prices. Some think they're a bit harsh, I disagree.

Something else to consider is Bryston. Tanklike build. Very good sound. If you buy a used one and send it in for an upgrade you get a new 20yr warranty :B

Also checkout the classifieds at

http://www.audioreview.com

I just picked up a Aragon 8008BB from there last week for a nice price.




theAudioWorx
Klone-Audio

[KennyG]

Thomas is correct, I have a Carver 705 that I use for my center and surrounds, nice amp for the price, but nothing special, you should be able to get them for around 4 or 5 hundred bucks, as soon as I save alittle more this one is going! KennyG

[Bing Fung]

If you are looking for new, look into the Anthems as well, like Brystons, but lower in cost.




Bing

[AndrewM]

Wow, I've just poured over a bunch of info and reviews on the Anthem amps, and I'm impressed (especially for $700 for the 2 channel!). Have you heard these before? I wonder how they would sound compared to a couple of Marantz MA700 or Parasound monoblocks. Or even the Aragon amps Thomas mentioned. I think I'll have to go have a listen to these, hopefully I can manage to get an in home demo.

Andrew

[ThomasW]

I haven't auditioned the Anthem units. But as you've noticed they get rave reviews. They better sound good, they're made by Sonic Frontiers

I'm quite sure the big Aragons are better, but we're talking a whole different league with a triple cost difference.

I'd say at their price point, Anthem doesn't have much competition especially from Marantz or Parasound. A shoot-out between Anthem and Acurus would be interesting.

HT-Guide member "Pat" is awaiting delivery of an Anthem amp.




theAudioWorx
Klone-Audio

[AndrewM]

Well, I stopped by the local Anthem dealer today at lunch to take a look at them, get some info and literature. I didn't bother to listen to them as they definatly don't have my speaker setup (I have Adire DIY kit 281's), and they don't carry Denon recievers (which is what I'm gonna use as a pre/pro for the time).

The dealer carries mostly very high end stuff, Levinson, Class A krell..etc. He is also a Marantz dealer. He basically told me that buying 2 MA-700's would be stupid compared to the 2-channel Anthem despite the fact the Anthem is $150-200 cheaper. He also was much more in favor of the Anthem compared to the cheap line of Krell amplifiers. I also learned that Parasound now owns Sonic Frontiers.

I agree Thomas, that comparing the Aragon and the Anthem may be to much though. Hey Bing, thanks a bunch for mentioning them, they may be a winner.

Andrew

[DanB]

I demoed the Anthem MCA-5, along with Acurus and Bryston. Then I got a hold of a Parasound 2205- and I was hooked. I narrowed it down to the Parasound and Bryston amps after 2 days of listening- the Anthem was very nice and detailed- but was lacking bass, and didn't seem to control the speakers the way the Parasound and Bryston units did. I read a few reviews that pointed out those same thoughts on the MCA-5. I picked the Parasound over the Bryston simply because even though the Bryston sounded better overall- it didn't sound a grand better.
The Parasound is a warm-sounding amp- but it gets better with time- more neutral sounding. The bass is kick-ass on it, and it has recieved numerous thumbs up reviews.
I also really liked the Acurus line...although I personally felt it was a bit bright, at least in my setup.




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[ThomasW]

DanB

With all due respect, a comparison between an Anthem MCA-5 and the Parasound 2205 is an apples/oranges comparison.

The Parasound 2205 retails for $2600, the Anthem MCA-55 is $1399, I'd certainly hope that for almost double the price, the Parasound would sound better.

To all,

This is a post on a forum where Bryston, Krell and Aragon were being discussed. The quote is from a dealer talking about his personal system. I offer it as an aside with tongue planted in cheek.

i used to have the bryston 4b driving my requests, then i got a krell from a customer that i thought sounded a little better in the highs, but not by much, maybe it was just the bragging rights of having the krell name. my friend brought over the aragon 8008bb telling me that it was designed by the same guy as the krell, bla, bla, bla... he said that many people buy that amp to pair with electrostatics (i knew that) so we did some a/b listening and i started to get that feeling of dread. you know when you just bought something, something expensive, and then you find something better?

theAudioWorx
Klone-Audio

[Lexman]

Andrew, welcome to HTGuide!


As to your question about Carver in the heading, and then going straight into Marantz talk, what's the deal there?

Well, anyway, forget Carver, you can do much better, IMO. Marantz is ok, but I tend to find them priced to the high side for what you get.

I second the motion for considering Parasound. I cannot say enough about the 1500A that I own. The amp powers my two 12" "Velex subs", pictured @
www.htguide.com/lexman/default.htm. Now, I drive them hard, and I drive them @ 4 ohms! These things have never skipped a beat, even when used as my main left and right for an "evaluation period". I found the amp to be both clear and powerful for my Sonus faber Concerto Grand Pianos, and detailed as well. Now, compared to my $3600 Proceed HPA-2, they do come up short. But it's really at the transparency, miniscule details, and holographic imaging level that diffferences show up. The Parasound has a very nice tonality, that I consider fairly warm by nature. Good match for "fatiguing" speakers I think as well. Though my Sf are anything but fatiguing!

Anyway, just my take on an amp that I would consider for my own theater, if I didn't own my Proceeds. Also, consider Rotel and Aragon to be good choices. Though the Aragon is probably 2 steps ahead of Rotel, and perhaps Parasound as well. It just depends where your heading in terms of budget, and I wasn't clear if your looking for 2 channels or 5. Please do consider the used market as well for a good value, as my Parasound was. But do be careful in internet dealings.

Lex

[DanB]

ThomasW..

What exactly is your point?
The Parasound may be twice the price- but more expensive doesn't always translate into "better". I've seen reviews where the MCA-5 was picked as more detailed and smoother than a Krell amp. I simply was giving my opinion on the amps mentioned.
You also dismiss the Parasound/Anthem comparison I brought up, but earlier you had said "a shoot-out between Anthem and Acurus would be interesting". Last time I checked, Acurus was as expensive, or more expensive then the Parasound line. I must have missed something...




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[AndrewM]

Andrew, welcome to HTGuide!

Thanks Lexman, and also thanks to Andrew P, he sent me an email back when I first signed up.

As to your question about Carver in the heading, and then going straight into Marantz talk, what's the deal there?

Well, there isn't hardly any information out there on seperates, at least on the lower end. The majority of people don't buy them, so when they get coverage most (but not all) of the time the coverage is on the super-high end stuff. As for going to Carver to Marantz, I had read some good reviews on Carver stuff, especially the older stuff when Bob Carver was still with the company. But just reading reviews on AudioReview isn't always fair as a lot of people may not be reviews the same things as you so the method of comparison is a little skewed, you know when you read that brand X amp is the best thing they had ever heard in thier life..etc..etc, only to read farther down and it's the only amp they have only heard and before that they listened to $200 recievers....this probably isn't a good review to read as they have nothing to compare it to. So I'll ask here also.

I will check out the Parasound also as the price point is fairly close, although if the amp is fairly "warm" it might not be a good match as I find my speakers already a bit warm, but they are also far from fatiguing.

I am a little leery of buying used stuff, as you are running the risk of getting a lemon, and when it comes to higher end stuff it becomes more of an issue. We'll see, I'm still in my learning/gathering info phase right now anyways, so any and all suggestions are definatly appreciated.

Andrew

[ThomasW]

Dan

Please chill, my statement wasn't discrediting what you heard or said.

The "basic" theme of this thread is recommending moderately priced amps for AndrewM to compare. My thinking is that when recommending amps for someone on a limited budget, amps at similar price points should compared. So a Parasound 1205 vs Anthem MCA-5.

Regarding the Anthem vs Acurus statement, Acurus makes 5 channel amps at two price points $2100, and $1600. So again the comparison would be with the lower priced unit




theAudioWorx
Klone-Audio

[JonMarsh]

For the record, Sonic Frontiers was bought by Paradigm in Canada, not by Parasound.

Acurus is the "budget" line from Mondial Designs, and overall it's price points are quite comparable to Anthem and Parasound. Acurus is intended for real world speaker loads in the 4-8 ohm range; Aragon's will drive pretty much anything- remember the Apogee ribbon speakers that were 1.5 to 2.5 ohms? Aragons work fine with them. Both Acurus and Aragon are built in the US.

In the range of these amplifiers, others to consider are the 9xx series from Rotel. Their mid range detailing and extended top end places them in a league with the Acurus and "baby" Aragon's, but they don't have quite the bottom end weight of an Aragon or Parasound. IMO, the Parasound amps have a nice, big sound, plenty of bottom end, going quite low, but lack a smidge in midrange detail and extended treble performance- just slightly darker.

Kind of like the difference between a top flight pair of dynamic headphones and a top rank electrostatic. With some program material, some users may not like the electrostatics, but it's because they're passing on more of the original info. When there are problems with source material, I think it's better to work with the sources, than to use amplifiers or interconnects as tone controls. That's why I think the digital filter options on the newest Sony players are a breakthrough, because they allow optimizing the system for some recordings, without compromising it for all.
For multichannel, the new Anthem's do represent a very high level of performance at a reasonable cost, and would be my choice in a multi-channel amp short of an Aragon. What I wish was available, was multi-channel versions of the 8002 series; it's 125W @8 and 250W @ 4 is very credible, it has excellent sonics, and if that power range is sufficient, is quite cost effective.

Regards,

Jon




Earth First!
_______________________________
We'll screw up the other planets later....

[Lexman]

I'd say at their price point, Anthem doesn't have much competition especially from Marantz or Parasound.

Dan, either you took this comment out of context, as thinking Thomas was saying the Parasound didn't sound any better, or you were just caught up in your passion for the product. Thomas, you were a little quick. As far as that goes, chilling is something that only our Canadian friends should do. But that's because they have to!

So, I will tell you guys like I will tell any member, please no flaming each other or even close. We want to avoid the air of contempt that plagues many other sites. I know it was all clean, but nonetheless, it starts with us.

Thanks,

Lex

[Lexman]

Good post Jon. I would say your description of Rotel and Parasound are pretty much right on with my own thoughts. I have no Anthem experience, or Aragon. But I know the Aragon's are great amps!
I have seen one with the notch cutout though, just didn't get to audition it as I recall. But to me, unless I audition it in my own system, making any kind of intelligent decision is difficult in short time trips to the A/V store.

Lex

[RickS]

Lex,

As far as that goes, chilling is something that only our Canadian friends should do. But that's because they have to! :B

We just sit beside our high powered amps for heat and enjoy the music and movies. I use my Cinepro 3k6II for additional room heating source for the cold winter nights.




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