Toshiba HD DVD now available at BB

[DrJRapp]

I've read (at another forum) about 2 people who bought a unit at BB. I guess they really do exist.

[brac]

But is there any media avail. for it?

[DrJRapp]

Yes, three titles are available with more due on the 18th. Supposidly this number will increase to 40 by the end of the month as more DVD production lines are converted over.

[ThomasW]

Somebody I know received one as a birthday present... :B

[Evil Twin]

Your wish is my command, Master.

Once it's completes the interface testing and burn-in, we will arrange a light shuttle to deliver it to your redoubt.

[Chris D]

okay... tell us more! specs, capability, and opinions!

[ThomasW]

Not hooked up yet, Jon's only 1080 capable monitor is in his storage space.

Some places are selling software, the store where Jon bought mine they're respecting the Tuesday release date. Of the 6 currently available titles I'm only interested in Serenity.

Jon's going to burn in the player at his place and send it out in a week or so.

Here's the owners manual

http://www.valueelectronics.com/images/pdf/HD-A1SN%20Manual.pdf

Once it gets to my place I'll do a shootout between it and a live OTA-HDTV signal on my CRT front projector.

[JonMarsh]

well, now that the players are out, there is starting to be some discussion, but it's amazing how uninformed some of it is- like questions from guys wondering how much better their Infocus 4805 would look with one compared to DVD.

Now, since the chroma information of HD downscaled to 480P is higher than for DVD, there's a possiblity that on some displays it will look better than SD-DVD, BUT- realistic expectations are in order.

One point emerging from the feeding frenzy is something discussed frequently 4-5 years ago, but not mentioned much lately- HD displays are NOT created equal, and few will resolve 1920X1080. Add in downscaling as required for most digital panel and projection displays, and the "iffy" chips often used for those tasks in consumer grade gear, and matters deteriorate from there. Then, there's even that many "mid" HD displays don't do one to one pixel mapping by default, but build in some overscan like TV's do, to attemp to hide screen edge artifacts. All of these things can compromise HF resolution significantly.

[ThomasW]

I'll just limp along with my antique Hi-Def projector built in 1997..... :B

[Paul H]

You guys are making a strong case for a capable crt

Paul

[noah katz]

"it's amazing how uninformed some of it is- like questions from guys wondering how much better their Infocus 4805 would look with one compared to DVD."

?? It's well known that the low res displays look much beter with HD than SD

[spyboy]

I'm sure everyone knows this, however, I'll risk repeating that the Tosh is limited to 720P/1080i, while Blu Ray will do 1080P.

[peterS]

"it's amazing how uninformed some of it is- like questions from guys wondering how much better their Infocus 4805 would look with one compared to DVD."

?? It's well known that the low res displays look much beter with HD than SD

correct

[H.T.C]

It can also be purchased at vanns.com.

[JonMarsh]

You guys are making a strong case for a capable crt

Paul

Will be tested tonight or Thursday night. :B

[aud19]

I'm sure everyone knows this, however, I'll risk repeating that the Tosh is limited to 720P/1080i, while Blu Ray will do 1080P.

Those first players yes but it's player, not format dependant

[JonMarsh]

correct

Well, better tell a lot of the posters that, because they don't think so.

There seems to be no end to the folks with ED flat panel displays who think they have an HD display, but it doesn't look like it (for the obvious reasons)

[Blindamood]

With all of the new formats and machines coming out, there are a lot of strange combinations of features. For example, I was looking at an upcoming Sony Blu-ray player today, and noticed it does not even play CDs...just plain weird. I might not be buying for a while, 'cause I want a player that will do it all -- HD DVD, Blu-ray, CD, legacy DVD, DVD-Audio, SACD...the list goes on.

My current Onkyo DV-SP1000 upscales to 720p/1080i and plays everything out (for the next few days or so anyway...) and I think will keep me happy for the next year or two at least.

[peterS]

Well, better tell a lot of the posters that, because they don't think so.

There seems to be no end to the folks with ED flat panel displays who think they have an HD display, but it doesn't look like it (for the obvious reasons)

i dont know what you're getting at.... all i am agreeing to is that 720p or 1080i down converted looks better than 480i upconverted to 480p
i dont think anyone is of the opinion that hd looks better on an ed than an hd... although i did have a customer who insisted it did... his return still sits on the shelf after he came tyo his sences :roll:

[Andrew M Ward]

A) I'm curious if the HD-DVD players shipping today and the HD-DVD media available today will work with DVI 1.0 connections at higher resolutions than 480P... I don't think they will...

obviously the cable would need to be an HDMI / DVI

B) I think we all know that any component output on a HD-DVD player will be only 480P due to HDCP regulations

any update would be interesting regarding what different connections allow.

[Martyn]

A) I'm curious if the HD-DVD players shipping today and the HD-DVD media available today will work with DVI 1.0 connections at higher resolutions than 480P... I don't think they will...

obviously the cable would need to be an HDMI / DVI

B) I think we all know that any component output on a HD-DVD player will be only 480P due to HDCP regulations

any update would be interesting regarding what different connections allow.

Wouldn't an up-scaling processor/receiver get around this 480p limitation?

[aud19]

Wouldn't an up-scaling processor/receiver get around this 480p limitation?

Taking a 720p/1080i/1080p signal and downconverting it in the player to 480p, then taking that 480p and upconverting back to one of the above resolutions will give you far from the best results.

[JonMarsh]

A) I'm curious if the HD-DVD players shipping today and the HD-DVD media available today will work with DVI 1.0 connections at higher resolutions than 480P... I don't think they will...

obviously the cable would need to be an HDMI / DVI

B) I think we all know that any component output on a HD-DVD player will be only 480P due to HDCP regulations

any update would be interesting regarding what different connections allow.

Component out resolution is affected by the ICT flag (Image Constraint Token), which if set on an HD-DVD or BD disk, will limit the effective image resolution to 960X540P, but does allow upscaling that back to 1920X1080.

Possibly because of forum inputs, the ICT flag doesn't appear to be implemented by most new disks- Sony isn't going to use it, Universal isn't going to use it (for now, anyway), etc. In fact, in Japan, which is the same region as USA, it is illegal to sell a player with ICT enabled. Not the case in the USA, though. Different consumer protections.

The current players will not output a high res signal on DVI without HDCP. HDCP enabled DVI, with a suitable adapter cable, will work.

For now, on older sets, the component inputs appear to be the easiest way to go for those without HDCP. There are other work arounds, but only on hardware produced in very limited quantity. So, for example, to drive a CRT front projector, you either need a component to RGBHV transcoder, or a HDCP compliant DVI to RGBHV converter, which, technically, is illegal under DMCA.

[Andrew M Ward]

Component out resolution is affected by the ICT flag (Image Constraint Token), which if set on an HD-DVD or BD disk, will limit the effective image resolution to 960X540P, but does allow upscaling that back to 1920X1080.

Possibly because of forum inputs, the ICT flag doesn't appear to be implemented by most new disks- Sony isn't going to use it, Universal isn't going to use it (for now, anyway), etc. In fact, in Japan, which is the same region as USA, it is illegal to sell a player with ICT enabled. Not the case in the USA, though. Different consumer protections.

The current players will not output a high res signal on DVI without HDCP. HDCP enabled DVI, with a suitable adapter cable, will work.

For now, on older sets, the component inputs appear to be the easiest way to go for those without HDCP. There are other work arounds, but only on hardware produced in very limited quantity. So, for example, to drive a CRT front projector, you either need a component to RGBHV transcoder, or a HDCP compliant DVI to RGBHV converter, which, technically, is illegal under DMCA.

Thank you
I appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge

[Drewbert]

I work at BB and its hooked up the amazing westinghouse 42 "1080p" note the quotations..... Its ok.... just ok... the people at corporate I just dont understand sometimes...
So yesterday I got bored and hooked it up to the Sony 60'' SXRD.... It does look really good even at 1080i. WAY better than a sd-dvd thats for sure. Tomorrow I will hook it up to the 1080p mitsu DLP that we carry.... which other than that net command CRAP, I love

FWIW I did have a goofy grin on my face as I was watching serenity....
and the 1080i thing still really dissapoints me... I thought that the 720p would look better but it didnt....

[peterS]

I work at BB and its hooked up the amazing westinghouse 42 "1080p" note the quotations..... Its ok.... just ok... the people at corporate I just dont understand sometimes...
So yesterday I got bored and hooked it up to the Sony 60'' SXRD.... It does look really good even at 1080i. WAY better than a sd-dvd thats for sure. Tomorrow I will hook it up to the 1080p mitsu DLP that we carry.... which other than that net command CRAP, I love

FWIW I did have a goofy grin on my face as I was watching serenity....
and the 1080i thing still really dissapoints me... I thought that the 720p would look better but it didnt....

why would 720p look better on a 1080p set?
that monitor is very good (lacking in contrast)
hook it up to a laptop... you will be amaized

[Hdale85]

I was wondering does it upconvert legacy dvd's to 720p/1080i? if so im considering getting this rather then the oppo dvd player. And if it does upconvert how well does it do it?

[Race Car Driver]

I guess these HD DVDs are very popular.
I swung in to a local BBY to check it out, and they were sold out. They didnt even have chance to get the display up before they sold out.
Guess Tosh is going to have a hard time keeping up with the demand.

[George Bellefontaine]

Well if the Tosh HD DVD players end up selling like hotcakes, where will that leave the more expensive Bluray players when they finally hit the market ? I will sit back and watch with interest.

[Race Car Driver]

Yup, Im waiting to see what PS3 offers myself. *shrug*

[LEVESQUE]

I'm sure everyone knows this, however, I'll risk repeating that the Tosh is limited to 720P/1080i, while Blu Ray will do 1080P.

If you have a scaler using a Gennum VXP or Realta HQV chip, or a display performing true 1080i inverse telecine like the Sony Ruby, then the 1080i signal from the HD-DVD player will be converted to 1080p.

The Gennum chip in my new Anthem D2 is performing true 1080i to 1080p conversion form the HD-DVD player, and outputting 1080p to my Sony Ruby. Outstanding results. :T

[Shane Martin]

I was wondering does it upconvert legacy dvd's to 720p/1080i?

Via HDMI it does. Via component it does not. They say the upconversion is as good as the Oppo.

[Chris D]

Levesque, you got a Ruby projector? Cool deal, man.

[aud19]

Levesque, you got a Ruby projector? Cool deal, man.

No doubt! Who'd ya have to kill/screw to get that!?!? :B :lol:

[LEVESQUE]

Levesque, you got a Ruby projector? Cool deal, man.

Yes. I got one in the first batch before they were officially out on the market to review it (sample unit) . :B

But after calibrating it fully (greyscale, color decoder, iris tweak, uniformity...) the picture was so good, I wasn't able to part with it and send it back to Sony, and simply bought it.

Paired with an HD-DVD player and a Gennum VXP scaler, the picture quality is totally unbelievable.

[Hdale85]

I want to know who's going to hack this thing first its a pc. There are going to be some awsome mods for this i can just feel it. In fact ive heard that Blu ray and hd dvd use very simaler lasers if not the same so maybe we will see a cross platform hack i doubt it and im not sure that info is correct regardless.

[Vinny]

I want to know who's going to hack this thing first its a pc. There are going to be some awsome mods for this i can just feel it. In fact ive heard that Blu ray and hd dvd use very simaler lasers if not the same so maybe we will see a cross platform hack i doubt it and im not sure that info is correct regardless.

They are both using blue laser, but not certain that is having the same wavelength or not.
CD/DVD are using red lasers but the toshiba HD-DVD players can still read those disks. I think the newer one will probably be able to read all formats by changing the wavelength/frequency :B

[Hdale85]

Yea. Which would be sweet if we could mod this thing to do that Then we dont have to buy 2 seperate players and we just wont care who wins the format war :B

[aud19]

From what I remember (don't quote me on this) they both use blue lasers though at different wave lengths and employ a second red laser for backwards compatibility with SD-DVD's/CD's etc.

[gianni]

Have any of you seen the initial review on this player over at that 'secret' website? They only reviewed it for SD playback - the HD and audio portion should be out soon. They were not really impressed with it for SD. Maybe not a big deal as most of us still have our regular DVD players.

[JonMarsh]

Actually, a score of 84 on their SD tests is pretty high.

What they dont' like are usage factors, like the boot up time, responsiveness, remote, etc. They haven't evaluated it for HD-DVD, other than to say it looks great. Because of the usage factors, they don't recommend it. The review is a bit vague, and has rasied some hackles of early adopters who find the image unmatched by any other consumer display source.

[JonMarsh]

One thing I should comment on- the sound quality.

I've only played back a couple of movies before shipping out the HD-DVD player to ThomasW, and I don't have a typical HT setup- was just running the decoded 2 channel analog into my "baby" two channel rig, using augmented Modula MTM's. The sound quality is the best I've heard at home under those conditions, and should only improve with Dolby TrueHD sound in surround.

[peterS]

From what I remember (don't quote me on this) they both use blue lasers though at different wave lengths and employ a second red laser for backwards compatibility with SD-DVD's/CD's etc.

hd dvd still uses a red one... just a more focused beam

[aud19]

hd dvd still uses a red one... just a more focused beam

Ummm no. Both technologies use blue/violet lasers at different wavelengths. Do a Google if you like

[peterS]

eh you're right