In quest of budget reclocking

[jim1961]

Well, it might be an experiment worth trying, but as I mentioned, my own investigations with ThomasW and monster ported sub with HE15 versus quasi sealed IB sub, the latter won hands down. The ported sub sounded like a really good HT sub setup- the IB sounded like live music, because of the dryness and definition. Think about it, for a given impulse, the ported setup has a build up and decay time, which amounts to several cycles- to me, that overhang is audible on most program material (OK, not on Saint Saens C Minor organ symphony, perhaps!)

I guess if you are ever able to visit, we will listen to pipe organ then

Your insights and experience are always valuable,

Thanks Jon

[JonMarsh]

Thanks for the kind words- that doesn't mean that a setup like what you describe wouldn't be fun and satisfying in many ways... while I always like to strive for the "original" sound, what ever that is, in the end it's being happy about your hobby and how you experience music... going sealed normally means using 2x the drivers and space at a minimum, and for many situations that may not be practical or affordable. If I think about trying to convince GF to go with a couple of sealed 15" subs in the corner, I know I'm treading on thin ice, which is why I figure a passive EQ box may be the hot ticket! And cheaper, too! It's not like with two NS12's on each side that I don't have the requisite surface area and Xmax... :W

[wkhanna]

I dropped the LPFRS master clock & PS off at our local shop Vintage Hi-Fi of Pgh last evening, & left them in capable hands of the the owner, Tom.
Hope to get feedback next week after he has a chance to hook it up to his O-scope.

The coffer is building slowly but steady, I will be buying parts for the 'Duded Up' NatP project V soon, then the Mutec MC-3+ shortly thereafter.

[JonMarsh]

I dropped the LPFRS master clock & PS off at our local shop Vintage Hi-Fi of Pgh last evening, & left them in capable hands of the the owner, Tom.
Hope to get feedback next week after he has a chance to hook it up to his O-scope.

The coffer is building slowly but steady, I will be buying parts for the 'Duded Up' NatP project V soon, then the Mutec MC-3+ shortly thereafter.

I'm behind where I wanted to be on this and planned on contacting you and Dan today- I still don't have the DCD8 in my system at GF's, and expect testing both will be delayed a bit longer- but it's because of the "Wrecking Crew from Winnipeg", and wanting to be sure that project proceeds quickly and I have a solid working crossover design soon so they can keep building. So this weekend will be prep and assembly on the new cabinets, and I expect getting some fresh measurements and dialing in the crossover design.

Once we've got that under control, I do intend to get back to this. As usual, I've painted myself into a bit of a corner with too much parallel processing of projects! you should see all the veneer I've got for the Wavecor Ardents...

We do have a new PhD that's accepted an offer, and should start by mid March. In the long run, this will help, though how that will play out and when is not clear. Maybe April or May? That's better than October, I figure. But as it is, GF is planning her summer vacation with one of her GF's; I can't make any plans or commitment, have to be continuously available for this customer program "until relieved". I'm planning on taking one day off the end of the month, both to get my windshield fixed and attend the annual Apple shareholder meeting. That takes approvals through the customer, and still isn't a done deal.

[wkhanna]

I'm behind where I wanted to be on this ..........

No worries, Jon, as Dan & I both have multiple parallel projects ongoing as well.
It is not as though we are sitting around on our hands waiting for someone else to do our work for us!

As usual, I've painted myself into a bit of a corner with too much parallel processing of projects! you should see all the veneer I've got for the Wavecor Ardents...

I have been following that project closely.
It is time & effort well spent, imho!

[PewterTA]

I know, I don't like this whole multiple projects thing.... I just need to finish one and would be happy! ha ha.

Can't wait to see how the clock responds and we can get this moving.... well as well as the Nat P upgrades... and well everything else I'd like to do as well!

[JonMarsh]

I know, I don't like this whole multiple projects thing.... I just need to finish one and would be happy! ha ha.

Can't wait to see how the clock responds and we can get this moving.... well as well as the Nat P upgrades... and well everything else I'd like to do as well!

Your life is becoming like mine...

Let's see, there's...

• Finishing up the Isiris with midrange enclosure enhancmenets and final asembly of crossovers in cabinets
• Finishing assembly of the LPFRS and heastink and testing with DCD8
• Testing 2nd LPFRS with Mutec
• Installing my organ and new Leslie due to arrive mid next week at GF's in new music room
• Getting acoustical measurements with new Wavecor Ardent cabinets and and completing crossover design process
• Completing assembly of both Wavecor Ardent cabinets and sanding prep for finishing
• Epoxy coat of Wavecor Ardent Cabinets, and sanding in prep for veneering
• Veneering and sanding sealer and Lacquer spray finishing of Wavecor Ardents.
• Assembly of dual monoblock nCore 400 project.
• Building crossovers for Wavecor Ardents and finishing assembly and test
• Install new battery in Honda ST-1300 and get insured and registered again.
• Move NSX to GF's, replace main relay, ignition switch and install new battery- get smogged.
• Order balance of small parts for 2002+ NSX front end conversion
• Order balance of small parts for NSX 2002+ rear bumper/valance conversion
• Install Comptech Engineering headers in NSX, and install Pride V2 Exhaust
• Get bumper parts for 2002+ conversion painted by local Acura specialist (only FRP, no worries about aluminum painting.
• Dismount original bumper assemblies and hood, and install NSX-R CF hood, new bumper assemblies and front headlights and hood, and rear bumper cover/valence

And that doesn't include some picayune stuff like install the new Seymour Duncan bridge pickup on my Nighthawk guitar... hardly worth mentioning!

[PewterTA]

You at least have a list....

I can't even get a list put together as it all keeps changing!!!

Ha ha.

Well I really do need to sit and put a list together... Maybe when I'm bored at work one day................................... Or maybe when I'll just have to take the time at work to put the list together.

[JonMarsh]

Lists are good... I may have too many of them, but then you know, there's an App for that...

[JonMarsh]

Well, I've gotten six of the items above completed, and should be ordering another 24V OMRON supply (new) from eBay shortly.

Some additional info- found the manual for the Rubidium clock module online, in PDF format; the target for heatsinking is to keep the maximum case temperature of the module at or below 65C- note that for a Rubidium oscillator the initial current consumption is much higher, then tapers off- for the LPFRS module the "stabilized" current consumption is about 200 mA, but initial current may require a couple of amperes.

[JonMarsh]

Your life is becoming like mine...

Let's see, there's...

• Finishing up the Isiris with midrange enclosure enhancmenets and final asembly of crossovers in cabinets
• Finishing assembly of the LPFRS and heastink and testing with DCD8
• Testing 2nd LPFRS with Mutec
• Installing my organ and new Leslie due to arrive mid next week at GF's in new music room
• Getting acoustical measurements with new Wavecor Ardent cabinets and and completing crossover design process
• Completing assembly of both Wavecor Ardent cabinets and sanding prep for finishing
• Epoxy coat of Wavecor Ardent Cabinets, and sanding in prep for veneering
• Veneering and sanding sealer and Lacquer spray finishing of Wavecor Ardents.
• Assembly of dual monoblock nCore 400 project.
• Building crossovers for Wavecor Ardents and finishing assembly and test
• Install new battery in Honda ST-1300 and get insured and registered again.
• Move NSX to GF's, replace main relay, ignition switch and install new battery- get smogged.
• Order balance of small parts for 2002+ NSX front end conversion
• Order balance of small parts for NSX 2002+ rear bumper/valance conversion
• Install Comptech Engineering headers in NSX, and install Pride V2 Exhaust
• Get bumper parts for 2002+ conversion painted by local Acura specialist (only FRP, no worries about aluminum painting.
• Dismount original bumper assemblies and hood, and install NSX-R CF hood, new bumper assemblies and front headlights and hood, and rear bumper cover/valence

And that doesn't include some picayune stuff like install the new Seymour Duncan bridge pickup on my Nighthawk guitar... hardly worth mentioning!

Criminy! This post was in late February, and now it's the middle of June! Where are things sitting, including the re-clocking setups?



Still Pending.... Finishing up the Isiris with midrange enclosure enhancmenets and final asembly of crossovers in cabinet
Completed... Complete design, construction, and testing of TA4A RC crossovers for Isiris (Test Article 4A, Release Candidate)
New Task... Sand down Isiris and re-finish in lacquer
Completed! Finishing assembly of the LPFRS and heastink and testing with Brainstorm DCD8
Still Pending.... Testing 2nd LPFRS with Mutec MC3 Plus
Completed! Installing my organ and new Leslie due to arrive mid next week at GF's in new music room
Completed! Getting acoustical measurements with new Wavecor Ardent cabinets and and completing crossover design process
Completed! Completing assembly of both Wavecor Ardent cabinets and sanding prep for finishing
Completed! Epoxy coat of Wavecor Ardent Cabinets, and sanding in prep for veneering
Completed! Veneering and sanding sealer and Lacquer spray finishing of Wavecor Ardents.
Still Pending... Assembly of dual monoblock nCore 400 project.
Still Pending... Building crossovers for Wavecor Ardents and finishing assembly and test
Still Pending... Install new battery in Honda ST-1300 and get insured and registered again.
Partial... Pending Move NSX to GF's, replace main relay, ignition switch and install new battery- get smogged.
Still Pending... Order balance of small parts for 2002+ NSX front end conversion
Still Pending... Order balance of small parts for NSX 2002+ rear bumper/valance conversion
Still Pending... Install Comptech Engineering headers in NSX, and install Pride V2 Exhaust
Still Pending... Get bumper parts for 2002+ conversion painted by local Acura specialist (only FRP, no worries about aluminum painting.
Still Pending... Dismount original bumper assemblies and hood, and install NSX-R CF hood, new bumper assemblies and front headlights and hood, and rear bumper cover/valence

You can see it's the Wavecor Ardent project with Ben and his dad that are getting 90% of the loving' - but it deserves it! They probably would have been assembled last weekend, but for my visitor this week and switching back to Isiris crossovers and measurement and the Brainstorm DCD8 setup.

The notable thing relevant to this thread is that last weekend the Brainstorm DCD8 was up and running with one LPFRS setup, the second LPFRS setup is nearly ready, (SMPS on the way), and the Mutec MC-3 has been checked out initially in the system for functionality, but no listening tests (no time!) An encouraging trend I see, regarding the more reasonably priced Mutec MC-3 Plus, is how many write-ups I'm seeing on other forums for guys getting good results with it for re-clocking both with and without using a 10MHz reference oscillator with it- seems like the built in clock technology is rather good, too. The instructions and setup info with it are actually easier to decipher than for the more expensive DCD8- both have quite a bit of flexibility, and like that movie, with great power comes great responsibility. :W

More about this by this weekend, I hope- have colleague from Munich coming in Wednesday, and we'll be doing some listening then- he was the original guinea pig for the Brainstorm DCD8, originally paired with Antelope Zodiac Gold DACs, but now run with TotalDAC-D1, as my configuration is in the family room.

Too much parallel processing, and too little free time- due to work situation. But it's coming along... just frustrating to be able to see paths to things to do and take many months to find the time to actually get some of them done!

[JonMarsh]

What I meant here, is in a perfect world, how much (if any) do you like the bass elevated. By how much and over what frequencies?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]22712[/ATTACH]

Something like this perhaps?

Well, everyone's notion of the ideal house curve may be different...

With the new positioning, and tweaked midrange and tweeter crossover, this is what the long measurement window in room response looks like:



That can be improved on further, but putting the speakers where they deserve to go for best distribution of boundary modes is a GAF problem... (Girlfriend Acceptance Factor). :W

this still is quite pleasing to my ears, and much better than the original placement.

[jim1961]

Well, everyone's notion of the ideal house curve may be different...

With the new positioning, and tweaked midrange and tweeter crossover, this is what the long measurement window in room response looks like:



That can be improved on further, but putting the speakers where they deserve to go for best distribution of boundary modes is a GAF problem... (Girlfriend Acceptance Factor). :W

this still is quite pleasing to my ears, and much better than the original placement.

That looks real nice Jon. A noticeable improvement over your previous graph :T

The only thing I would consider modifying would be smoothing and extending the <65hz region. An additional sub or EQing the one(s) you have might do it.

But like you said, everyone's ideal house curve may be different. And certainly, the genres of music most listened to plays a factor as well.

[JonMarsh]

I think further refinement of positioning, both the speakers and the listening position can accomplish even more, but at the moment I'm pushing boundaries a bit anyway. Probably when I get them refinished and the crossovers all packaged internally, I'll be able to spend some time trying out for a further optimized positioning.

I know reading magazines that folks go through a lot of machinations with various program sources try to do this by ear (latest article I read was advocating "Just a little loving" by Shelby Lynn, which I have, including high res version) but if you get the response right with the mic, which is a lot less subjective, my intuition is that things will really fall into place. They have definitely been improving!

[jim1961]

I think further refinement of positioning, both the speakers and the listening position can accomplish even more, but at the moment I'm pushing boundaries a bit anyway. Probably when I get them refinished and the crossovers all packaged internally, I'll be able to spend some time trying out for a further optimized positioning.

I know reading magazines that folks go through a lot of machinations with various program sources try to do this by ear (latest article I read was advocating "Just a little loving" by Shelby Lynn, which I have, including high res version) but if you get the response right with the mic, which is a lot less subjective, my intuition is that things will really fall into place. They have definitely been improving!

Once you understand what the graph data provided by the mic is telling you (not just FR), I have found improved graphs nearly always translate into improved sound. I agree.

That said, there are things measurements cant tell you directly about like soundstage which is frustrating because this is one of my preeminent criteria for good 2ch sound. I would add though that excellent channel tracking, balanced R+L ETC responses, and attenuation of early high gain reflection (ETC), taken together, seem to let the soundstage bloom.

FYI, most folks I know look at the bass region with NO smoothing.

[JonMarsh]

Undoubtedly once you want to get down and dirty. But that measurement was done considering what did the whole speaker look like, and there are no room treatments installed yet.

However, the results subjectively are very much in the right direction, bringing out quite a few different recordings with bass guitar parts up and down the neck, or stand up bass-

The only way I'll likely find out how far it can be taken is having an agreement to do a "temporary" experiment.

But it won't be easy to sell anything radical on audio quality- I'm sitting in the dining room, with one of the Poor Clares albums playing in the family room, and it's very, very pleasing to most listeners... even to me.

[jim1961]

Undoubtedly once you want to get down and dirty. But that measurement was done considering what did the whole speaker look like, and there are no room treatments installed yet.

However, the results subjectively are very much in the right direction, bringing out quite a few different recordings with bass guitar parts up and down the neck, or stand up bass-

The only way I'll likely find out how far it can be taken is having an agreement to do a "temporary" experiment.

But it won't be easy to sell anything radical on audio quality- I'm sitting in the dining room, with one of the Poor Clares albums playing in the family room, and it's very, very pleasing to most listeners... even to me.

Running some waterfalls, ETC, and decays will give some measure of what level of room treatment is required. Perhaps you are lucky, and these measures may fall in acceptable ranges without much treatment.

[JonMarsh]

Running some waterfalls, ETC, and decays will give some measure of what level of room treatment is required. Perhaps you are lucky, and these measures may fall in acceptable ranges without much treatment.

Doubt it. :W I do have the panels from ATS on hand, but as usual finding time is going to be the issue until November or so...

Had an interesting afternoon with my colleague from Munich, who by the way, is not German... he brought some toys to try out... more on that later. We did get the settings on the DCD8 sorted out between the two of us, and resolved a B domain error in setup that was preventing audio reclocking function with domain A, the main working domain. Interesting experience yesterday, if a bit confounding. More on that later...

[JonMarsh]

Gotta put this on the front burner:

Wrote up some further thoughts on the re-clocking setups and comparing the DCD-8 to the Mutech MC-3 plus. I'm going to copy a bit of that here, as it's very relevant to the budget re-clocking topic.

Last weekend I replaced a power cable to the LPFRS that had broken at the DB9 connector when packing this up and moving over to GF's. Then I spent some time working on the setup and menu configuration of the DCD8, and I started to recall what a PITA this was back in late 2010 when we were getting the DCD8 operation sorted out for my colleague in Munich's system- he had to go back to the recording studio he had bought it from used (they were upgrading to a Zodiac 10M) and get a walk through on the process.

Well, this Wednesday evening we got this sorted out- the sticking point I'd forget is that you can't get rate reference from the input (where the sample rate is tracked and set by the input) AND 10MHz re-clocking from the reference oscillator on WC1 at the same time- instead, you have to set the WC-1 up for the desired input and domain and use the learn function to "teach" it that it's getting a 10MHz GPS reference oscillator input, then manually set the sample rate on that domain- for any change on the input rate, one must manually reset the rate. So, to go from 44.1 KHz to 88.2 kHz or 96 kHz, you have to know the rate of the incoming program material and by the front panel menus reset for the new rate. Something of a PITA, compared with what we're used to with "normal" DAC setups.

But man, when it is locked in to the 10MHz WC-1 clock and you compare that to just standard pass through, with auto rate set, there's no doubt about which way to go... finally I've got this setup right in the home system, as of last night!

Now, in this regard the DCD8 is NOT as flexible as the Mutec MC-3 Plus seems to offer more flexible functionality, as by the manual one of the several re-clocking functions, besides using the internal clock generator, is an "asynchronous" with re-clock aligned with the external reference (10MHz oscillator, in this case). So, this SHOULD provide re-clocking but with automatic sample rate tracking on the input.

How will the re-clocking compare with the DCD8? Don't know yet, but obviously I'll want to get the second LPFRS and supply built up and tested soon, and try out this configuration- in principle I COULD have do direct A/B as long as I'm willing to use different outputs and inputs on the M50 and TotalDAC-D1- (AES and S/PDIF), though to be fair, I should test both with either.

Of course, relying on subjective impressions is bothersome to me- not for myself, but for making any kind of recommendation to the community. ( I
am seeing more and more the desirability of finding a good used sample of Audio Precision Model 2- easier said than done, especially with a pending marriage by daughter next year I'm going to need to dig into my piggy bank for!) Of course, there is the cost advantage of the Mutec MC=3 Plus, though. And from the information provided, I believe it will work in balanced single wire mode all the way up to 192 kHz, unlike the DCD8, which needs double wire mode, which is not supported on most consumer DACs. So, this could be a big plus for the Mutec all in all- but must test it out. Hopefully by July 4th.

Here's the relevant part of the Mutec manual:






Could be some real significant functional advantages, but I still need to satisfy myself that the sonics are comparable at least. Of course, as good a reports as these are getting other places even without the 10M reference clock, it's likely a fairly safe bet in my book. But then I bought one with very little up front to go on, except a write up in a Markertek email and what I could find online.

[wkhanna]

Something interesting from Mutec......:W

[JonMarsh]

Yeah, I've seen this, also the German language interview which includes some info on the REF10 clock. If I was using USB for digital audio, I'd be all over this, I expect.

I do have a new linear supply for my 2nd LPFRS Rubidium oscillator on the way from the UK (24V @ 3A, low noise) and expect to be working on the digital end of the system, including installing the Mutec and setting up a new audio subnetwork, over the holidays. SO many things have been conceived but delayed, both by work and by my tendency to discover other things I want to get involved with, too, including shiny red 21 year old motorcycles with an eccentric engineering orientation. (My Rairtec handlebar riser just arrived Monday evening from Germany, after a month's wait (basically built to order), which will set off my activities to fit higher adjustable bars to the bike during the holidays).

Couldn't resist taking some pics....







But I've got so much High res media of various sampling rates that getting the Mutec in the system with it's automatic sample rate tracking is a must- a lot of new stuff from HDTracks, and some new ReferenceRecordings stuff, too.

I've got two weeks scheduled off, but just found out yesterday that we're going to be expected to have full coverage on call during the holiday for the Cupertino customer, so how much free time I'll actually wind up with is uncertain. Today is nice, as I've got out of the dungeon and out for a special seminar plus a meeting at our own office.

When it's up and running, you'll get my feedback. (you've heard that before, of course... slow work takes time!)

[Hdale85]

No time to watch the video, but did they mention a price?

[wkhanna]

$800 for the original unit

$1200 for the USB capability model

[Hdale85]

Ah not as bad as I thought.

[PewterTA]

Still a lot if the only thing that's difference is the USB. Well I guess it depends on the quality of the USB input.... I could've seen $100 to $200 max for the additional USB input on it...$400 seems a little steep. Maybe I'm wrong.

[wkhanna]

News on the new Mutec MC-3+.....link


The latest issue of the highly respected US pro audio magazine Tape Op features an in-depth look at MUTEC's MC-3+ Smart Clock:



"Two clocks in series? Those nutty audiophiles! ---snip---
daisychaining two of the clocks together. I’m about to step into audiophile-speak here, but we were able to hear...


However, audiophiles are a fascinating group who are interested in tiny, incremental improvements in their playback systems. I don’t believe that any single small improvement is really a big deal, but I do believe that enough of those improvements (or the removal of them) can add up to something significant."

[JonMarsh]

Yeah, like what if an improvement in how you handle your room acoustics reduces the room footprint and allows you to hear more into the actual recording, and as a result that improvement in jitter which clarifies transient definition and LF weight and transient envelopes now is just that much clearer? And they are both like diodes- once you've heard the difference, you don't want to go back.

I did get the big British linear supply to try out for one of the Rubidium oscillators. That was well before we left for Antarctica. There's a lot to do now, I'm hoping work doesn't go apesh*t again, but indications are that it may, based on a key customer meeting this week. That's good for business and heck for the personal life- especially since our one local firmware guy took a new position internally with the motor drive division (of IR) down in El Segundo. I'm still working on getting used to this whole International Rectifier is part of Infineon biz, will still take a while. Fortunately I'm fairly familiar with their products, and the overlap into the area I work in is not very big.

[PewterTA]

I forgot to mention that about a couple months ago, I picked up some new gear!

Seeing how much Jon liked the Mutec MC-3+ Smart clock... I decided to get one. After talking with the rep that I got it from, he somewhat convinced me to not wait for the new one with the added USB in it. He said that it's the same thing as just adding the MC-1.2 USB to SPDIF except it'll be $100 more than buying both. His thoughts, though not having heard one, just what he's been told is it is the same thing, but in his mind, combining the two means they use the same power supply (instead of two in the two units). So he said that might, even though Mutec says it doesn't, change the sound. The MC-1.2 can run off of USB power when there's no external power, so I wonder if that's what they do? Who knows... but I got a good deal and decided not to wait.

Upon first connecting them, there was an immediate notice over the Musical Fidelity V-Link 192 and Gustard U12 that I was using. I added the clock only to both the other two and there was a nice improvement in both. However, the MC-1.2 was a clear winner...not even a remote doubt in my mind. In fact, after I went back and forth multiple times with all the combinations (just to try) I actually didn't like the Gustard U12 like I had when I was using it. It should be noted that people have compared it to the Berkeley Alpha USB... I don't know how close or not they are...but IF that is true... then the Mutec is steps above both. My thinking is the Berkeley is better (probably even over the Mutec)...but like I said, I don't have one, so who knows!

I will say the Mutec combo has the smoothest, musical, detailed, warm(er) sound to it that just seems to transport me away when listening. At the cost of both, I was a little bit skeptical that I'd get my money's worth out of them...but I really think (now broken in especially) that it was well worth the price as I've not heard anything close to it that didn't cost a lot more than the two in total.

The next project, which WKHanna and I need to get back onto is adding in the 10Mhz Rubidium clock to the Smart Clock and see how things go with that!! I can't wait... though I'm going to have to as we need to get Bill's back from the audio repair shop that was verifying the signal coming out of the clock... and I have to buy the power supply for mine and have bill mount up the heatsinks on it... and possibly build a little case for them....but that can come while using it!

Here's a little picture of the both when I first got them and just set them up on the table to make sure I got them working right before I put them in place.

[JonMarsh]

Cool stuff, Guys! I'll be very curious to see what you think with the Rubidium clock added- I don't even use the DCD-8 without it. I'm eager to get the Mutec going because I want the automatic sample frequency tracking; I've been holding back all my non 44.1 kHz stuff from the music server because of that...

I'm still behind the 8 ball in getting my Deathstar fully setup and operational- something about being in a full time live in relationship seems to reduce the available time for DIY somewhat... :W

However, it's on the calendar to get to in July... and I'm also going to see how it works as part of a portable (well, mobile) setup- things are going on at work which may cause me to need a reliable source setup that isn't to bulky to be able to carry around, down to El Segundo, for example, and maybe even to a trade show. So, after I sort out the Mutec completely, next step is trying it with a relatively small and portable DAC that has a good reputation for being a giant killer in it's price range...

Something that is easy to forget is that, given the proportions, is that these are only 11" wide...




Could put them in a brief case or computer bag, but there's a lot of good stuff crammed inside...



I'm really curious how the Mutec may interact or support the "Exact" clock mode of the Auralic Vega, which is fussy about how that works with a variety of sources, as regards maintaining lock. But it's reportedly the best sounding mode.

Will likely have to go with the SMPS for portability reasons, but then, I'm also considering customizing one of our LLC reference designs for that, adapting a 94% efficient resonant converter to the requirements. Should be entertaining...

Next speaker project is all about supporting this effort, too... think a compact book shelf that goes deep and plays loud. Maybe not so much compact, need a cu ft or more internal volume...

[7ryder]

This thread has been quiet for several months -- as an owner of a Mutec 3+ USB I was wondering if anyone did hook up a Rubidium clock to it?

[wkhanna]

we have the Mutec 3+, or at least Dan does.
we both have the rubidium clock & a power supply.
we just haven't got the rubidium hooked up yet.

hopefully soon.......
damn everyday life activities keep getting in the way!
we need to allot a specific schedule to get this project completed.

[JonMarsh]

we have the Mutec 3+, or at least Dan does.
we both have the rubidium clock & a power supply.
we just haven't got the rubidium hooked up yet.

hopefully soon.......
damn everyday life activities keep getting in the way!
we need to allot a specific schedule to get this project completed.

This is SO SO typical of my current situation-

I've got a new linear supply from England to use with the LPFRS Rubidium oscillator that's to be setup with my Mutec. Have other stuff going on with the system, too, including a new preamp on the way to play with (AURALiC Taurus Pre)

Plus a new CD transport to integrate for my legacy CD users (i.e., GF).

Stay tuned...

As we say, slow work takes time. Trying to parallel process a number of projects makes it worse, but it does insure fairly full CPU loading... :W

this coming Sunday is set aside to work on this some more.

[Evil Twin]

It is remarkable how relevant this post from 10 years ago still is today...

[theSven]

It is remarkable how relevant this post from 10 years ago still is today...

And yet no one shared the results of the Mutec 3+ USB. Great thread to tread over. Is it safe to say the verdict is Mutect 3+/USB with a Rubidium clock? That's what I'm thinking based on reading this thread to date...

[JonMarsh]

I'm going to "run this down by the numbers", and in this case I mean the model numbers.

• The black MutecMC3+USB shipped to you today is a Mutec with the a high performance USB interface and the 1G local clocks. - the receiver provides the clock based on the handshaking with the transmission spec, and then gates the signal across at the audio sample rate. This unit can be sync'd externally to a high precision 10MHz Rubidium sine wave oscillator (much cleaner to transmit than a pulse wave version would be) which is divided down as a reference and all the digital circuits are "clocked" by zero crossings (via dividers) of that external low phase noise reference.
• The silver front plate image in post #154 above on this page and just below in this post is a similar model NOT with the +USB which has their upgraded local 1GHz oscillator which is very high grade, and yields superior performance compared to the MC3 and MC1, for when you don't have an external 10M sine reference, BUT it supports that, too. It is what we were investigating as an alternative to the DCD8, which in normal stereo mode is "limited" to 88.2 kHz audio sampling rate, and for 196kHz has to be put in a special mono processing mode. In fact, I'd sold my DCD-8 to my colleague in Germany (Arun) so that he could run stereo with the DCD8 and Rubidium oscillators. I was not usually using USB as an audio source, this was prior to Audirvanna developing their exclusive mode audio control, and I was usually using Roon with a specialized computer to render it onto a network, then a signature Rendu or Micro Rendu to go from Ethernet to USB, and USB to AES/EBU via the Berkeley Audio Alpha USB, which was considered to be the best designed and best performing and best isolated USB to AES/EBU device in existence. I have no reason to think still that any one has beaten it. I was looking at this as a DCD8 substitute with stereo capability at higher sampling rates.
• The MC3+ WITHOUT +USB typically sells for about $1199, the MC-3+USB about $1649, for example, at Sweetwater pro sound. Below is a link to the one put in shipping this morning- this is the one I should have sent out last Monday, but with everything that had happened on the weekend, I grabbed the "shiny" one instead of the black one.
• I have since bought another Brainstorm DCD8 on eBay; that model is superseded, and its successor (DXD-8) is a bit pricey at $3,215 typical resale. Hey, it's all relative, right?
• Rubidium oscillators are pricey in general, at normal retail (A Mutec REF10 is $4995) and our (Arun and I) listening evaluations of a variety did not necessarily show a strong correlation between price and audio quality. Believe it or not, we agreed that the LPFRS used we got on eBay many years ago was one of the best sounding regardless of price. Sometimes you get lucky...
• Doing this from scratch, I'd go with the Mutec MC3+USB, as it will probably get you 85% of the way there as regards what we found was the "peak subjective performance", and compared with other similar solutions, the price is a relative bargain.
• Beverly's pancreatic cancer diagnosis put a lot of stuff on hold in early 2016, where it's remained until retiring and moving here, and old projects are just starting to be addressed again.
• Keep in mind, this is all pro studio gear, (including mobile studio) with functionality that is pretty much mandatory in a studio environment with multiple pieces of digital gear that have to work smoothly together. If you just want to keep it simple, with everything in one carefully tuned box, get a Berkeley Alpha DAC Reference Series 3. However, if you want to feed it from USB, you'll still need an Alpha USB isolator. So, going that route, You'll be out $28,000 for the current version of the Reference 3 new, and $2,275 for the Alpha USB. I bought my Alpha DAC Series one and later my Alpha USB at Music Lovers Audio in Berkeley, where oddly enough, Berkeley Audio Designs happens to be located!

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MC3PlusUSB--mutec-mc-3-usb-master-clock

You can still get to the link at Sweetwater- their site just doesn't allow a preview.




The Mutec with MC3+USB is my "bang for the buck" recommendation for most folks interested in optimizing their digital, especially from USB sources. I was using with with my 2nd tier gear back then, the DCD8 with my TotalDAC. (Sign Magnitude R2R ladder DAC, and TotalDAC even offers an input "Digital filter re-clocking unit".

Go back and read PewterTA's post Eprom upgrade 1098 not by software up there if you want a good description- what he didn't comment on is the quality of imaging, but this is dependent on how much your room clutters up the sound field and how you have your speakers setup. To get full benefit, there's a plethora of things that need to be addressed.


For reference, DCD-8:

[JonMarsh]

And yet no one shared the results of the Mutec 3+ USB. Great thread to tread over. Is it safe to say the verdict is Mutect 3+/USB with a Rubidium clock? That's what I'm thinking based on reading this thread to date...

At that point, I was using my Rubidium oscillators with my Brainstorm DCD-8. Never got to the point of testing the Mutec with them. But this Mutec unit (on the way to you) should be a significant step up all by itself, as the internal clock setup is way above average.

Life was very hectic back then- 2012 through 2014 I was working full time in a customer's labs in Cupertino. 2013 was the design and construction of the Isirs. 2014 was the Wavecor Ardent. 2015 was international travel on business as well as personal trips with Beverly, like Antarctica.