Pioneer Elite SC-68 is in the House!!!

[Dmantis]

Whats up everyone?
I have been looking for an upgrade and haven't found what I was looking for. Back in the day when it was just Dolby Digital and DTS , it was pretty easy to select a new receiver or Separates , new DVD player , etc. Today it's a bit more of a challenge. Most of my challenges are due to the fact B&K basically went out of business , I have been waiting for some news that there is a new pre amp or AVR coming , nothing. Rotel was my last Separates in the RSP1068 preamp and RMB1095 amp and I've been waiting for them to put out a preamp that I would really like , but they don't. They have no room correction , bugs in HDMI more so then others , ETC. So I don't want one. NAD is pretty damn nice with room correction in Audyssey , but they are limited as well. Sounds great and was a strong choice in my upgrade. Integra DHC80.3 was just about a lock as it's stacked with Features , excellent sound quality and connect ability. But what broke the deal for me was the sound quality of a high quality DAC in front of one. Taking a analog signal and converting it to digital then back analog was a deal breaker. I was actually very disappointed in my testing of this preamp here. Everything else I was sold.
I replaced my Rotel RSP1068 back in 2009 with a Pioneer Elite SC-07. At the time it was just going to be a preamp as I liked everything about it and then some. After some time , I got the "I want to play with it" bug and decided to try out the internal amps. Shocking they where amazing. Sold the RMB1095 and have been using it ever since. I have ran 2 different speaker packages off it in the Dynaudio Audience series and currently Definitive Technology Mythos series.
Much time has past and I have had no reason to upgrade. I got into computer music and that really sparked my interest to go back to separates. Then we put a SC-68 on the floor , I learned about the internal USB DAC , listened to it with a pair of Maggie 1.7's which are not easy to drive and was blown away by it's performance.
We did a computer show and used the SC-68 as a USB DAC to show off Channel D Pure Music software and everyone was blown away we where using a Theater receiver to do so and not separates like we usually do.
In another room we had the same speakers connected to Peach Tree and Cambridge Audio and everyone preferred including myself the sound of the Pioneer.
I have looked at every model after the SC-07 and never found enough of a reason to upgrade . The SC-27 now came with a removable powercord and that alone almost made me upgrade as I love using shorter powercords for one wire management and I enjoy using upgraded power cords. I'm a wire management nut and hated the attached power cord of the SC-07. I almost changed that myself as I was going to remove it and put a removable on it.
The SC-37 came out and had the ap and a more HDMI inputs. But after upgrading to the Mythos ST main channel speakers and having now 2 subs , I wanted dual sub outs. I waited and waited for the SC-09tx to be replaced and it never happened.
The SC-57 came out and had Dual sub outs and many things I liked , But I learned the Dual sub outs where just a internal splitter. Deal breaker and we also started having some trouble with HDMI on the entire 5 series Elites.
So the SC-68 made the cut and it's installed, and I already learned the dual sub outs are a splitter unless there is a setting I missed to have true dual sub outs. I just put it in last night and have not calibrated or dialed it in. I just listened to it raw and hear how it sounds right out of the box. So far it's sounds a lot like the SC-07 with something different. It's not calibrated or MCACC as I'm very use to how the SC-07 sounds raw and calibrated. The SC-68 is very close but something is different. The top end is smoother and the mid range is a bit more pronounced. I'm not going to judge it just yet as I'll do a head to head VS for direct 2 channel then fully report on that.
I'll also post a full review after I have spent some more time with it.

Stay tuned.

[Chris D]

Congrats, dude! :banana: I do hope it turns out well for you.

[Dmantis]

Hello all ,
I have finished my review of my new receiver. I'll jump right in and try not to bore you.
I have owned the SC-07 for many years , actually since it came out. I replaced Rotel Separates with it for many reason you can search on my review then for that back story. I saw no need to replace the SC-07 until now. I just got deeper into Computer music , been testing out a lot of DAC's and really wanted to have a solid DAC for my system. Well when we got in the SC-68 with it's internal USB DAC , fist of it's kind actually , I was pretty interested in what it could do , how it would sound etc. After our Computer show a few weeks ago(I posted a story about that as well , search for it) and I was pretty sold on the SC-68.

Some of you might wonder why I didn't go back to separates as I planed on. Well One thing that ruined it for me was the Integra DHC80.3 and no date set for the 80.4. Reason I bagged getting it was when I put a external DAC in front of it , my sound quality was worse then if I just went straight digital in with HDMI or optical. From what I learned the Integra's digitize the incoming analog signal so there is a A to D converter , then converts it back to Analog. This ruined any DAC you put in front of it to the point I was pretty pissed about this.
So I bagged the idea of using it. On a side not it did sound pretty damn good using it's own internal DAC's over HDMI. I was on the fence if I should pick one up and find a nice 5 or 7 channel amp. Well after hearing the SC-68 compared to the DTR70.3 it was a no contest.

The SC-68 sounded better in every single way including dynamic range which is something I feel the Integra higher end models do very well. Even at the entry level DTR20.3 or the newer DTR20.4 , they have very nice dynamic range. Something anyone who can't afford a higher end AVR or has a system not in need of one could love and respect for many years.

I uninstalled my loved SC-07 and put them side by side on the floor. The SC-07 is deeper and taller. Also feels a tad bit heavier. I guess all the extra signal paths the older Class D amps had to travel added some inches around the waist. One thing I like much better is the look of the SC-07. She still looks like the older Elite models. Holding on to a time when life was really good. Shining and bright , deep piano finish always was one of my favorite things about the Elite line. My TV has the Urushi finish and so did all my past Elite gear. The SC-68 has a brushed Aluminum finish exactly like the new Sharp Elite TV's and Blu ray players. I hate this. Now if Pioneer never had the Urushi finish ,It would look wonderful. But I hate change when change is not needed. I want Urushi back. If Pioneer ever releases a replacement for the SC-09tx , they better make is Urushi. I'm writing them a letter on this matter and running up in my Rep about it.

Sound quality wise , it's still very similar to the SC-07 in many ways but what I'm noticing is it's smoother from top to bottom. It has a very balanced pleasing tonal balance. I sink into my couch more so then when I use to listen to the SC-07 with no external amps in the chain. I have none now , it's all the SC-68. I expected this level of sound quality from the SC-57 when it was released , I had one here and did a pretty intense shootout (I have a thread about it if you want to check it out). I found the SC-07 and the SC-57 to be much closer in sound quality. The SC-68 sets itself apart from it's past. It's a remarkable achievement in tone. I still find it amazing that you can get this level of sound quality out of a receiver.

On the feature side of things , I love the new 2012 App. It brings my whole house music experience to another level. Before I had to use Universal Remote controls around the house to turn on zone 2 or 3 , then pick my source , then control my original Apple Tv 160g and get all that to go. No big deal as I used it that way for years and loved it. I have 7 active audio zones around the house and use them all. We have speakers on the deck for the summer time and we use the hell out of them. I use my garage a lot as well as I love to wash the trucks in the driveway and pull into the garage for the detailing , wax etc. Now I can Turn on what zone I want , Airplay into it right from my phone any app that I want. That is stupid cool. I love the hell out or it. It's nice to be in the Jaccuzzi and turn on that zone , get something to play and crack open the latest mag of Home Theater. I have so many uses for this.
Another very cool thing is the HDMI out for zone 4. Finally a Matrix Switch inside a Receiver. This is awesome. I have component and analog running to my master bed tv , also have a pair on in wall polk RC65i's in there and it worked very well as it was. Now with HMDI , I enjoy it even more. I can finally un wire all those component cables for good. I couldn't seem to get away from it but now I can. So sweet.

My system is under construction right now. I removed the Apple TV160g as I felt no more use for it right now. I have a Sonos Connect , Apple TV 1080p and Airplay directly into the receiver. So for house music , I don't need the 160g anymore.
For the main zone I use my Macbook Pro with Channel D software now directly into the USB DAC. It;s crazy how good it sounds and I actually like it better then the Cambridge Audio DAc Magic Plus I had here. It also might be the difference between the SC-07 and SC-68 overall sound quality as well. I'll have to bring another Magic home and side by side it. We are getting in the D2 from Benchmark so we shall see how the USB DAC holds up against it. I'm bringing home some Cardas and Audioquest USB cables to see if that really makes a worthy difference over a high quality 3.0 USB cable from Belkin. Right now I'm loving my sound quality and if upgrading the USB improves it , I'm gonna be tickled pink.
Side not to all of you reading this , dig into computer music , it's well worth the time and effort to experience it.

Movie wise I have yet to really go deep. In the future I'll continue to review the SC-68 and I'll report all of my findings. So far I'm extremely happy with it and have no regrets not going back to separates. My next move will be new speakers , stay tuned for that. Right now Revel just made a serious challenge to everything I have been lusting after. We just got in the new series and I'm blown away. They might need a in home demo.

[Dmantis]

A few Pic's

[Hdale85]

Is it the bigger one or the smaller one? lol

[Dmantis]

Is it the bigger one or the smaller one? lol

The bigger one is the SC-07 , the Smaller is the new SC-68

[Hdale85]

Wow.....the SC-07 was Class A/B amps though I believe right? Where as the newer ones are Class D designs.

Edit: Nevermind I see that you mentioned it was Class D, that's insane though that the size could be that different. I think back when the SC-07 was around they were using ICE amp modules though, and the newer ones they designed their own.

[Dmantis]

Wow.....the SC-07 was Class A/B amps though I believe right? Where as the newer ones are Class D designs.

Edit: Nevermind I see that you mentioned it was Class D, that's insane though that the size could be that different. I think back when the SC-07 was around they were using ICE amp modules though, and the newer ones they designed their own.

Elite models incorporate Pioneer’s new Class D3 digital amplifier technology that can produce massive power output with much less electrical power consumption than traditional designs. The integrated Class D3 amplifier can deliver Pioneer's highest-ever continuous power simultaneously to all dedicated channels with extremely high efficiency, significantly less heat production and ultra-low distortion.

“The new Class D3 amplifier technology built into the SC receivers illustrates Pioneer’s engineering capabilities and further proves our expertise in the home theater space,” said Chris Walker, director AV marketing and product planning for the home entertainment division of Pioneer Electronics (USA) Inc. “These receivers can truly reproduce the dynamics of uncompressed audio soundtracks from sources such as Blu-ray.”

Class-D3 Power Statement
In a class by itself, the Class D3 amplifier delivers the true audio potential of any uncompressed source such as Blu-ray Disc titles. The amplifier section of the SC receivers can deliver extremely fast response (speed) rate, provide exceptionally detailed midrange frequencies, and generate high dynamic range with all channels driven. Pioneer’s Class D3 amplifier features include:

Power Efficiency – The Class D3 requires much less energy to produce more continuous power output per channel. The design of the amplifier assures high dynamic range from any source, lower impedance capability, and exceptional high fidelity sound, even in multi-zone mode.
Improved Thermal Dissipation – Redesigned from previous generations, the large aluminum heatsink is top mounted to achieve 360 degrees of heat dissipation. The technique enables heat generated during use to radiate from the top and bottom of the unit to increase reliability and high performance at any volume level.
Direct-Thru Signal Path – The amplifier section was reconfigured to achieve a much shorter audio signal path. A third shorter than last year’s design, audio signals are directed one-way from the audio input side to the power supply, eliminating any looping through the circuit board or the need for a loop circuit which can cause feedback, noise, and ringing, especially in the high frequency audio band.
THD Improvement – The Direct-Thru Signal Path design combined with a less circuitry design resulted in improved switching characteristics. The amplifier produces virtually no noise with a total harmonic distortion (THD) rating of .003 percent (rated at 100W).

[Chris D]

Nice! I like the Salamander racks. I have a few myself.

[Dmantis]

I've had that rack over 10 years now. It's amazing how good of shape it's in. Nothing is wrong with it at all. Very well built furniture.
I have had so many pieces go in and out of it , it's amazing how it holds up.

[Chris D]

Really? Actually, I've found that the wood on my Salamander racks scratches VERY easily. Very hard to keep them scratch-free. But as far as construction quality, yeah, they're rock solid.

[Hdale85]

Not really much to those racks though, just 80/20 extrusions and some wood. Most of the fastening hardware and stuff is from 80/20 as well. I always found them to be a bit overpriced considering it wouldn't take much work to build one?

[Dmantis]

Not really much to those racks though, just 80/20 extrusions and some wood. Most of the fastening hardware and stuff is from 80/20 as well. I always found them to be a bit overpriced considering it wouldn't take much work to build one?

I've been very happy with it and don't think it's overpriced especially when compared to all others in the price class.
Strong shelves that hold just about anything you put on them as I had some heavy amps over the years. Limitless height adjustment , you can set the shelf height at exactly where you want it. Removable back panels , some gear is deeper then the internal depth and you can fully remove one of the 3 pack panels if you wish.
Front doors are very nice with excellent hinge quality with quick release. You can also purchase a key lock.
Saturn wheels make for easy pull out and re wire , upgrade , clean or what have you. I'm back there a lot so the wheels are gold.
It's modular in design so you can add , change all you want. I could easily add a top shelf , center channel stand , drawers or whatever I want easily.

Salamander Synergy Design cabinets are the best value I believe in Audio video furniture. Sure you could build your own but why would you when it's already done for yeah. More time playing with gear then in the wood shop.

[Hdale85]

I didn't say they weren't good, but most of what you mention is all because of 80/20 extursions.

http://www.8020.net/

I can't remember how expensive the Salamander stuff is but I recall it being over the 1k dollar price but maybe I'm wrong. My point was there is about maybe 100 in extrusion pieces (extrusions, fasteners, wheels, so on) and maybe another 100 in wood pieces, granted finishing and what not adds some cost. I don't know I'm just a DIY guy so this is how I think lol! I always look at something thinking "can I build this?", obviously they are very nice racks, and likely well worth the money to most people

[Ovation]

For people like me (definitely NOT DIY--the few exceptions I have around the house are enough to dissuade me from doing it on a regular basis), such furniture is great (when I can afford it).

I can certainly see the attraction of DIY for those who are capable of it, though.

[Hdale85]

Yeah I understand that completely.

[Dmantis]

I didn't say they weren't good, but most of what you mention is all because of 80/20 extursions.

http://www.8020.net/

I can't remember how expensive the Salamander stuff is but I recall it being over the 1k dollar price but maybe I'm wrong. My point was there is about maybe 100 in extrusion pieces (extrusions, fasteners, wheels, so on) and maybe another 100 in wood pieces, granted finishing and what not adds some cost. I don't know I'm just a DIY guy so this is how I think lol! I always look at something thinking "can I build this?", obviously they are very nice racks, and likely well worth the money to most people

You can easily spend well over a grand on doors , casters , fans , back and side panels etc etc etc. It's all good , I'm not a DIY guy when it comes to furniture , I'd like to be but don't have the time , tools or patience to do so. I do however love building cables. It's basically a hobby of mine inside this hobby. LOL.

The 80/20 site , how long have they been around? I wonder if they been building Salamanders stuff all these years. Salamander has been around a very long time. Well over 12+ years.

[Hdale85]

They've been around a long time, and I'm sure Salamander gets their extrusions and a bunch of other parts from them. Unless they aren't a US based company, in which case there is a similar company over seas that has almost the identical product. These extrusions are used for all sorts of things.

[Lex]

good thread here. I always liked Pioneer Elite receivers. I have a small older one in my bedroom. It's been solid.

Salamander was always pretty high. Billy Bags are pretty expensive too, but good stuff. Looks like they are still around, even after the founder died several years ago. Quite a legacy.