Rotel separates or Hi end receiver, that is the question

[mikeyc]

I've posted this question on another AV forum and got an interesting answer. I'm currently debating whether to get Rotel separates (1068 and 1075) or go with a good receiver from one of the reputable brands eg. Denon, Elite or Yamaha which would probably be cheaper and have more "bells and whistles". My priority is sound quality and I'm not big on surround modes. But at the same time, I'd also like to "future proof" my equipment as much as possible since this will be a substantial purchase for me. So features such as HDMI switching make good sense to me.

A poster on the other forum mentioned that the MCACC auto/room eq feature on his Pioneer Elite 55txi adjusts for the features of his room and makes a huge audible difference. I don't believe that the Rotels have these EQ features. He also goes on to say that Rotel is generally regarded as "entry level separates" whereas a high end receiver, such as his Pioneer could outperform separates, in certain rooms.

Now I'm not trying to start a flame war but I thought I'd put this question to this forum to see what your thoughts are. So, providing that I also get decent speakers for this system, do you think I will get better sound from the Rotel seps or a high end receiver?

I note that many of you seem to have B&Ws. Is there any particular reason (Rotels sound better w/ B&Ws) or just coincidence.
Cheers

[Kevin D]

Unless you have a close to perfect room with sound dampening panels, EQ's can possible cause a lot more problems then they solve (except for low frequencies, put an EQ there). I've played with the auto-setup on the high-end Yamaha pieces, and while for someone not knowing what they are doing it certainly would get a good setup out of the box. It did set a bunch of things that were questionable and quite frankly sounded better set up properly. If sound quality is most important for you, go with Rotel.

Future proof is impossible in this industry. Even on high-end receivers. IT is nice that these units do come with more 'bells' than Rotel, but that kind of offset's the lower resale value they have. $3k on a receiver that lasts 3 years and is worth nothing or $1500-$1000+$1800= $2300 over three years and still have a unit worth $1000...

On the B&W question. They do sound great, but mainly Rotel and B&W share the same US distributer and most dealers get both lines at sign up. People tend to find a good dealer and stick with them.

Side note, Rotel said at Cedia that instead of a replacement card for HDMI on the 1098, it would most likely be an external 'switcher' that connected to the RS232 port. As the 1098 switched vid1-4, the 'switcher' would switch HDMI1-4....

Kevin D.

[DrJRapp]

My priority is sound quality and I'm not big on surround modes.

He also goes on to say that Rotel is generally regarded as "entry level separates" whereas a high end receiver, such as his Pioneer could outperform separates, in certain rooms.

do you think I will get better sound from the Rotel seps or a high end receiver?


Cheers

If sound quality is your primary concern, then the question of receiver vs separates is a no brainer. There is no way a high end receiver, even Rotel's own, with multiple modules such as processor, tuner, amps, etc operating off of one power supply, can even begin to compete with separates. As to the issue of "entry level" don't let that deceive you. Rotel components may be priced at entry level, but the performance of Rotel gear compares favorably with most higher priced brands of separates. There are good reasons for this, most of which arise from Rotel's design philosophy, and the fact that it's wholly owned and operated production facilities assure high quality at reasonable cost.

You will find that once you get "into it" that you will want to do your own room setup anyway. That's part of being an enthusiast and a big part of the hobby. I truely believe that with my $30 Radio Shack spl meter, and an hour or two of quality time I can set up my system for my room far better than any existing automated receiver can.

It comes down to this...do you want the flash of many features you may rarely, if ever, use; or do you prefer the strength and purity of performance that only separates can deliver.

[Bam!]

Mikeyc....

It's all heresay...

One guy says Elite receiver then someone else says Denon...then someone else says Rotel

There'S not much to say in a thread like this......you need to go have a listen....If you are worried that you do not have enough experience yet to be able to hear the differences...bring a friend along....hopefully a true audionut!

Cheers

[shadow]

If sound quality is your primary concern, then the question of receiver vs separates is a no brainer. There is no way a high end receiver, even Rotel's own, with multiple modules such as processor, tuner, amps, etc operating off of one power supply, can even begin to compete with separates. As to the issue of "entry level" don't let that deceive you. Rotel components may be priced at entry level, but the performance of Rotel gear compares favorably with most higher priced brands of separates. There are good reasons for this, most of which arise from Rotel's design philosophy, and the fact that it's wholly owned and operated production facilities assure high quality at reasonable cost.

You will find that once you get "into it" that you will want to do your own room setup anyway. That's part of being an enthusiast and a big part of the hobby. I truely believe that with my $30 Radio Shack spl meter, and an hour or two of quality time I can set up my system for my room far better than any existing automated receiver can.

It comes down to this...do you want the flash of many features you may rarely, if ever, use; or do you prefer the strength and purity of performance that only separates can deliver.

With due respect, this statement is a bit over the top. The Rotel receivers are more than competitive with Rotel separates. There is a tendency to exaggerate the extent ofimprovements in my opinion.You will only begin to hear a real difference when you add the 1095 or 1080 amps IMO. That said, I would still go for seperates if money is available and the Rotels would be my choice, with Denon and Arcam good receiver options, along with the Rotels of course.

[Olaf]

Dear Mickey,

I originally started with a Denon AVR-A11 which is the model just below their top of the line AVR-1SE. I was perfectly happy with this receiver until I heard the Rotel RSP-1098 paired with a RB-1080 and a RMB-1075. I found the difference to be very noticeable. Within one month I had traded in my Denon and have now a full Rotel setup. Listening to the various options available is the best advice.

You will hear the difference.

Rgds,
Olaf

[Mitchell]

I just purchased Rotel seperates.
I started with the idea of buying a Rotel receiver that would also work for HT. After some listening and thinking it occured to me that I really just wanted an excellent 2 channel system for music and that I would probably never set it up as HT. I was trying to future proof my system it didnt seem possible. That goal by itself leading to a tremoundous compromise.
After listening, I found that the rotel receiver as good as it was, did not sound nearly as good as the seperates with dedicated 2 channel 200wpc output. The bass in particular suffered. I also tried the Rotel 2 channel receivers. Which were an improvement but not nearly as good as the 1080 and a preamp. Several dealers recommended going to a large 2 channel amp and they were right. The 1080 is able to deliver faster, more powerful output on demand than the receiver ever could. To spend approx $2000 on a 7 channel amp 100wpc that I would probably never fully use vs. spend less on a combo of Tuner, Preamp and 200wpc Amp made the most sense for me listening to 2 channel music.
Hopefully it will be playing great stereo for at least a decade.
I understand that if I wanted to turn it into a HT setup the components could be used to drive two of the channels for an awesome HT setup but I'll probably never do it.
I also purchased B&W's and I was aware that one of the probable reasons for the constant pairing is the shared distributor as noted above.
Having known that, I worked a little harder to see if this was just convenient marketing or a good sounding combo. I read some reviews on the web, (some on these forums, some just by typing the name of the speaker into Google) and found B&W's to be excellently reviewed for the most part, even without Rotels as the front end.
I also listened to several different speakers and found that B&W seemed the best offered in the price range. The dealers were happy to demo and sell products from companies such as Linn, Sonus Faber, etc.
As for Rotel, I never heard anyone knock Rotel even if they didnt sell the line. Even people I knew who had Macintosh equipment said really positive things about Rotel. The reviews which you should check also are overwhelmingly positive.
I just went through a two month decision making process. Hope this is helpful.
This forum which I have been monitoring for weeks has been extremely helpful to me.

[aud19]

Yup sorry, go and listen is the best advice I can give you. I'm sure you'll hear why most people would pick a Rotel over the mainstream brands. Second, regardless of the sonic improvements seperates offer over all-in-one recievcers, remember that with a sperate pre/pro in a few years you can upgrade the pre/pro for new formats/functionality and not have to also upgrade your amps. It's a more econimical long term solution.

Jason

[Andrew Pratt]

My priority is sound quality...

That alone makes this an easy choice to make. If you look around here most of us owned mega buck receviers in the past and every one of us is glad we made the switch over to true seperates. Actually as others have pointed out most of the increased clarity with seperates comes from the power amp not the pre amp (within reason). Meaning that if you took a decent receiver and paired it up with a good power amp you'd be very close to true seperates as far as sonics go and you might be more features...now that's not to say a true pre amp won't have its advantages as well as far as noise levels etc but its an option that's fairly popular.

Anyway my best advise is to simply go and listen to the Rotel combo vs any receiver out there and see for yourself why we all think its an easy choice to make. The cost break down is interesting also given that the big dollar receivers depreciate in value very quickly where as things like power amps tend to retain most of their value so all said and done seperates don't cost you any more over the long haul...and actually might be cheaper depending on at what level you're talking at.

[aud19]

That alone makes this an easy choice to make. If you look around here most of us owned mega buck receviers in the past and every one of us is glad we made the switch over to true seperates.

Yup, used to own a Yamaha RX-V1 / RX-Z1

Jason

[ds22030]

Well, I have an HK230 and Rotel 1075 combo necessitated by my 4 ohm speakers which I was not going to give up. As being new to separates, I will say that another important variable in separates is the interconnects. They make a big difference and cost some $ for good ones....you wont have that issue with an integrated so that is a major disadvantage of separates that I did not appreciate before. I can also honestly say that my HK sounded better than the Rotel until I (more or less) sorted out the interconnect issue and psuedo bi-amped my speakers....

[shadow]

Could you elaborate on the interconnect issue regarding what models you started out with, what you tried or went with and why?

[Khorn]

That alone makes this an easy choice to make. If you look around here most of us owned mega buck receviers in the past and every one of us is glad we made the switch over to true seperates. Actually as others have pointed out most of the increased clarity with seperates comes from the power amp not the pre amp (within reason).

I'll agree that of course power amps make a big difference but IMHO the pre is just as important if not more so. I've noticed drastic differences between pre-amps when compared in the same system. I look upon the pre-amp as the "heart" of the system. The amp can only amplify the signal that has passed through and been "acted upon" by the pre-amp.

It all comes down to the fact that the system is a chain subject to its weakest link.

[Azeke]

Mickeyc,

The separates issue is a constantly ongoing debate, depending on who you speak to, budget restraints, etc., in essence it's your own ears that must decide (Disclaimer).

However, with that being said, this is my story.

I owned a Yamaha RV-3200 receiver, a pretty good receiver. However, I wanted to upgrade, to the next level, started with my speakers, then I purchased the RMB-1095 (in hindsight, I probably could have purchased the 1075 and saved around 1,000 bucks, and used that to purchase the front channel amp RB-1080), things were sounding better. Still being curious, I next updated my receiver to the RSP-1066 pre-pro (didn't want to go the receiver route again), wow, significant upgrade, imho.

Wait, it gets better, I called my dealer, because I heard about the RSP-1098 on this forum, he says, yes I actually have one here just came in today. Okay, let me check it out, I'll be there shortly. One hour later, through the one year upgrade purchase, I now own the RSP-1098, another sound level improvement from my previous pre-pro.

Okay, I unfortunately, have to sneak in the house past my wife, ( I actually don't do that anymore, due to a promise, but that's another story), set everything up, it was great and well worth the investment.

Next thing, I start wondering about the front channels and would I benefit in sound utilizing a 2 channel amp, brought the RB-1080, it was a wonderful addition (thanks Will, I really mean it ).

There's more, the RSP-1098 can now be upgraded via software to run true 7.1, via DoPro IIx. I know have 7.1 and it is a beautiful thing to behold.

However, I was excited about my story, and I digressed. The moral of the story is as follows:

a) You must judge for yourself, what you like by actually listening, in your own home if possible, most retailers let you try the equipment for 30 days.

b) Separates, as previously mentioned, allow you to upgrade the pre-pro without having to upgrade your amps (at least for now, there are digital amps out there, but there are not prevelant yet, just another thought to consider), so you can get the latest hardware and software. You can also upgrade individual pieces as opposed to the entire system.

c) I was a receiver guy for a long time, I had always heard of the separate route, but never ventured. Now that I have, I don't believe I'll return to the mode ( I never say never). Once you go separates you'll never go back.

d) Be aware of upgraditis, it looms near.

Well, I hope my little story helps you. You should weigh your advantages and disadvantages, and make an educated and logical decision. Your mileage may vary of course.

Good Luck,

Azeke

P.S. Just a thought to ponder, I have not known many who have gone the separate route and then said, I think I'm going back to a receiver.

[shadow]

Actually, a surprising number of people go to receivers from separates due to financial reasons usually, sometimes to save space and often when the seperates in question are relatively old and not amenable to upgrading to current standards. You look at seperates of five years ago and while most of the amps still hold up well, a lot of the pre/pros of that period are not much better than paper weights now given the changes in in processing and progress in other areas.

[soundhound]

I am with khorn, I run an RSX-1055, RMB-1075, and RC-1070. I looked at the RSP-1068 but @ $1600 USD I opted for a new RC-1070 @ $450 USD. The re-direct feature of the 1055 gives me 7.1, and a pretty incredible sound. The RC-1070 gives me back the ability to hear differences in how the tracks were recorded (it has loosened up nicely with some run time on it), and I was able to come in @ about $500 USD lower than the 1068 going with the used reciever and new preamp. The single biggest difference in my set-up for 2 channel has been the 1070.

[dermie999]

You look at seperates of five years ago and while most of the amps still hold up well, a lot of the pre/pros of that period are not much better than paper weights now given the changes in in processing and progress in other areas.

Wouldn't this be a reason to stay with separates? If the amps are still good surely it is a cheaper proposition to upgrade the pre/pro rather than buy a receiver and pay for new amps which really aren't needed?

Trevor

[Azeke]

Actually, a surprising number of people go to receivers from separates due to financial reasons usually, sometimes to save space and often when the seperates in question are relatively old and not amenable to upgrading to current standards. You look at seperates of five years ago and while most of the amps still hold up well, a lot of the pre/pros of that period are not much better than paper weights now given the changes in in processing and progress in other areas.

Shadow,

I agree that some people go to receivers based on economics or space issues, ergo my disclaimer.

That aside, I wonder if Soundhound would have purchased the RSP-1068 would you have needed to purchase the RC-1070. These are things that make me go hmmmmm .

Just a friendly thought to ponder 8) .

Regards,

Azeke

[GosonFletchy]

The good thing with the Rotel receivers now is that they make pretty darn good preamps as well. If you start with the receiver and then add in the amps later on you can use them as a preamp and have very impressive results. It may take up a bit more rack space but I find that it can have some nice benifits.

G.

:grab:

[soundhound]

Not sure I follow Azeke?

[ht_addict]

Mikeyc what is your budget? This can have a major impact on what you buy. You wouldn't want to scrimp on a seperates setup with a limited budget when you could pick up a top of the line receiver and add an amp down the road. And right now their are alot of receivers with the internals and features that rival and surpass seperate pre/pro's. You'll never get a receiver with an amplification section that can do what a dedicated amp can. Now that being said take a look at the new Pioneer 56TXi receivers if your budget is limited. Feature set and specs are outstanding.



Power
Power Amplifier Design A.D.E MOS FET
Surround Power 110 W x 7 (20HZ - 20kHZ @ 8 ohm, 0.09% THD
Stereo Power 110 W x 2 (20HZ - 20kHZ @ 8 ohm, 0.09% THD
Digital Decoding & Processing
Digital Engine Dual Motorola 48-Bit Processing
Dolby Digital 5.1 Yes
Dolby Digital EX Yes
DTS 5.1 Yes
DTS-ES Discrete 6.1 Yes
DTS 96/24 Yes
DTS NEO 6 Yes
Pro-Logic II DPL IIx
THX Yes
Surround EX Yes
Pioneer Original Surround Modes Advanced Surround 6 Movie / 6 Music
Virtual Surround Back Yes
Midnight Listening Yes
Loudness Yes
MCACC Advanced
Speaker Configuration Yes
Speaker Size Yes
Speaker Level Yes
Speaker Distance Yes
Acoustic Equalization 5 - Band
Advanced MCACC (EQ Timing Adjustments) Yes
Acoustic Status Display via PC Yes
Analog to Digital Conversion 96/24
Digital Analog Conversion (DAC) 192kHz/24-Bit Delta Sigma
Connectivity
i-Link Yes
USB PC Input Yes
Analog Audio Inputs 10
Analog Audio Outputs 4
Digital Inputs 5
Optical In 3
Coaxial In 2
Optical Digital Output 2
Multi-Channel Input 8 Channel
Audio Pre-Output 8 Channel
Composite Video Input 5
Composite Video Output 3
S-Video Input 5
S-Video Output 3
Component Video Input 2
Component Video Output 1
Component Video Conversion Yes
Component Video Frequency Response 100 MHz
Headphone Output Yes
Multi-Room and Source Output 1 A/V
Front A/V Inputs Yes
IR IN/Out Yes
12 Volt Trigger Yes
RS-232C Yes
System Remote Control Port Yes
AC Outlet 1
SP Terminal Type High Grade Banana
Speaker A/B A/B, A+B
Adjustable Speaker Configuration Yes (2nd Zone /SB Channel / MR&S)
Convenience
On-Screen Display Yes - All
Dot Matrix Display Yes
Remote Type 2 Line LCD
Pre-programmed Yes
Learning Yes
Illuminated Keys Yes
Macro Commands Yes
Construction
Front Panel Aluminum
Chassis Double Layer
Transformer Stabilizer Yes
Direct Construction Yes
Insulators TAOC
Warranty
Terms 3 years parts and labor
Dimensions
Width x Height x Depth 16 9/16 x 7 7/16 x 18 5/16
Weight 44.8 lbs

ht_addict

[mikeyc]

Thanks everyone for your very informative views. That was my first post and it was gratifying to see so many members of the Rotel Club willing to help and offering advice. I kind of knew going in what the responses would be by posting that type of question to the Rotel converted, but I think I'm pretty much sold already so this was just added confirmation. What I've taken away from all of this is that I need to listen to both the separates and the receivers and judge for myself. But I have to admit, the Rotel gear sure looks purrty and is calling my name.

[Aussie Geoff]

Mikey,

Rotel gear sure looks purrty and is calling my name

Ah... I see

Be warned that once you spend some time in the seductive company of that Rotel Gear (especially any of twins like the RSP-1068 and RMB-1075) you are likely to be hooked.... (Just like those innocent cowpokes in the movies)

Geoff

[Azeke]

Not sure I follow Azeke?

Just wondering if the 1068 would have provided the 2 channel sound you were trying to achieve. It's simply an after thought , and a matter of personal taste.

Regards,

Azeke

[soundhound]

Yes Azeke it would have, I was able to audition one @ a retailer, and AAHHH. The 1068 was far superior to the 1055. Two problems being was 1) the dealer frustrated me to the point of walking out twice, having went there with the intention of buying the 1068. (I have since found a very good dealer) 2) after returning home empty handed the first trip I thought about needing another amp (for 7.1), seperate tuner, all just for 2 channel. So it made sense for me to add the RC-1070 where I now fully enjoy 7.1, FM stereo, and SWEET 2 channel, and $500 less to boot, Bob

[myki]

Hi everyone, I've been lurking for quite some time and I share MikeyC's concern. By the way, I'm a MykiC as well.

I have a Marantz SR7200 driving 4ohm Dynaudio Audience all around. I've been researching for a month already and it's consistent that there is a "big" improvement when an amp is connected with a receiver or a pre/pro.

From your experience, what kind of sonic improvement should I expect?

A) Upgrade by adding RMB-1075 to a receiver = ___ %
B) Upgrade by replacing receiver with an RSP-1068 = ___ %

I am expecting that I will get a 20% improvement with A and a 10% improvement with B. I plan to do A next week and B sometime next year.

Is this an accurate expectation? Thanks so much!

By the way, it's my birthday next week so the 1075 is my wife's "gift" to me.

[hery]

Myki
First of all Happy birthday :T Secondly, I ordered a 1075 this weekend and can't wait for delivery. My dealer let me borrow a 1070 to demo. I connected it to my front speakers and RSX-1055 receiver, big difference!!! You definitely notice more detail and all that good stuff with less volume. I asked the same question in the thread in page 2: Will a 1075 make a difference? and got lots of great suggestions and ideas, check it out and enjoy you new toy!!!

Hery

[myki]

Hi Hery,

Thanks for the greetings! Yes, i did read that thread with the bi-amping options and stuff. Too bad my Dyns can't be bi-amped.

Actually, I've read sooooo many posts, reviews, etc. and I'm very convinced (even without hearing for myself) that a 1075 will improve my system. I haven't purchased it yet, but I'm already considering my next upgrade! And that would be a 1068.

I'm actually hoping that someone would say that moving to a 1068 is not as big an improvement as getting a 1075. That way, I don't have to scrimp on DVDs and CDs just to save for a 1068.

myki

[DrJRapp]

From your experience, what kind of sonic improvement should I expect?

A) Upgrade by adding RMB-1075 to a receiver = ___ %
B) Upgrade by replacing receiver with an RSP-1068 = ___ %

I am expecting that I will get a 20% improvement with A and a 10% improvement with B. I plan to do A next week and B sometime next year.

I think that is something that one may find difficult to quantify with a number. There are just too many variables. Let me give you an analogy as an example. I just upgraded to an RSP 1098 from an RSP 1066. My amps remained the same but the improvement in sound quality is is so huge that it is difficult to describe in words let alone quantify in numbers.

Now to complicate matters further. My wife (who is a semi-pro musician) could ascertain the differences immediatly, but our 15 YO son couldn't hear the difference because it wasn't any louder..lol. (Most 15 year olds can't spell nuance let alone grasp the concept). The moral to this story is that the differences will vary based on your ability to ascertain and appreciate them. Therefore you may "hear" a 200% improvement while I may "hear" a 50% improvement, or vice versa, depending on what each of us is looking (or rather listening) for.

[hery]

Myki
I'm also thinking of going into separates, so getting the 1075 now improves on what I already have and buys me time to wait for probably the next model after a 1068. All this talk about HD DVD and BLU Ray discs helps me hold off a little and wait and see what will happen in the near future and let's not forget about the WAF.
Take care
Hery

[cmr15]

I personally don't undertand all the receiver bashing that goes on here in the Rotel forum. For many of us, a solid receiver is the perfect solution.

To that end, I really must say that I am very pleased with my purchase of a 1067 receiver. I spent a lot of time listening to it versus separates and when compared to the 1068/1075 combo, I really did not notice any significant difference (in either surround mode or 2 channel listening). To my ears, in the 1068/1075 versus 1067 matchup, there was no concrete winner. However, when compared to the 1068/1095 ... all I could say was wow!! The 1095 brought out such tight and well controlled base in my dynaudio 52se's. It was amazing. But ouch! $2000.

That said, I opted to get the 1067 and use a rel stratta III subwoofer with my set up. When I listened to the 1067 with my speakers and the rel subwoofer, the overall 2 channel sound was as engaging as the 1068/1095 ... to me.

.... "The above commentary was sponsered by the commitee to reduce receiver owner embarrasment and does not necessarily reflect the view and opinions of Club Rotel" ....

Craig

[Andrew Pratt]

Craig I don't thing there's anything wrong with Rotel's receivers at all...in fact they better the most others out there and when limited by space or you don't require the extra power they're the logical choice. The reason however that you see so many recomendations for the seperates is that the cost of the 1075/1068 combo isn't that much different then the typical price of the higher end receivers in which case its perhapse a wise idea to consider going with the seperates. (which could and often is the 1056 receiver paired up with the 1075 amp since the 1056 receiver is often cheaper then the 1068 pre amp)

[JBall]

Bought the 1067

I am on the way now to pick up a 1067. I started looking at receivers a couple months back as my old yamaha 30W i bought 25 years ago just isnt up to par anymore...i went to several stores, but for the quality, look of the unit, and the "true wattage" of the rotel it fit in what i wanted to spend. The salesman also HIGHLY recommended it and said it was absolutely the best VALUE out there.

Then....i found this forum....and the separates issue dorve me nuts reading everything! SO i went back to the store, the salesman talked me into it again, said to go separates would require 1068, 1095 and a tuner for 4100 bucks or so verses my 2 grand. He said i would be better off putting miney into better speakers. I also have a very open family room into my kitchen and i can configure the two extra channels to feed a couple speakers to fill out sound so i dont have to crank it up in family room and people can still sit in there. So i would have to add another distribution amp to do what i wanted as well.

Then i came home and read more on here....sheeesh, and i went to the rotel web saite, and they have a PDF brocure with a bold headline that says SEPARATES ARE BETTER....

So...back to the store....salesman said if i was spending that much he would go macintosh receiver for 5500.00 which is best out there. He also said i could return the 1067 in 30 days or so if i keep box and want to upgrade. After all the reading i have done on here i intend to buy the 1080 to get excellent 2 channel music for my fronts

Here is my current shopping cart
- 1067 recevier, pick up today
- 1080 to bi amp fronts, ordering today
- BW Nautilus 803 fronts, ordering today
- BW Nautilus HTM1 center
- BW SCM1 surrounds
- BWASW800 Subwoofer (1000W)
- couple of Elan ceilings for kitchen
- waiting til jan/feb to see if Rotel gonna come out with Universal DVD player with SACD capability to future proof and HDMI

My reasoning is,

- I will have 5.1 surround and kitchen area amps....
- The tuner is built in and although the stand alone is probably better, i prefer XM anyhow
- The salesperson said the 200W amp only increases the volume a couple/few decibels, that is was more of a "clipping" issue, However after all the opinions here, i think getting the 1080 to drive the 803s is s good idea and bi-amp them
- the Subwith bass management will pick up alot of the load and the sales person said it is totally not "Parasitic" to the other components

The biggest problem I have is that this dealer doesnt really have much to listen to. For instance, no HTM1 (or 2) and no ASW800, no SCM1. I did near the 803's and i think they were a little bright, but he said the sub will take care of that.

anyhow, i could go on and on...but i have decided to use the 1067 to control system and do the 1080 as my version of separates....i don't know if i will hear a difference or not, but based on what i read it is safer to add it and set it all up now, especially while the WAF is going good....

If I am way off base here feel free to let me know. I am a rotel virgin!! (not for long)

[Andrew Pratt]

Your dealer wasn't really being fair when he said you needed the 1095 amp...the 1075 is a more reasonable amp when compared to the 1067 receiver and its half the price of the 1095. As for your choices you might consider not getting the 1067 but get the 1056 receiver instead. The internal pre amp side is identical to the 1067 so you're really only paying for stronger amps...which you're going to bypass anyway. So what I might suggest is getting the 1056 and the 1080 for now which will be pretty reasonable. You can then add a 1075 amp later if you want more power for the other surround speakers

[alkalay]

hi myki,

I don't think it can be put down to figures that way.

I used to have a Marantz SR4200 connected to an integrated audiolab amp, as the later was replaced by a 1075 which is finally connected to a 1068.
Connecting each one of them surly had its impact on sound for me. Having the two Rotel mates hooked up together... I think synergy.

Having a receiver with pre outs "makes sense" to add a power amp as a first step. I have heard some talks about that a power amp would have the greatest effect on sound. I don't think so.

Itai.

[mikeyc]

[QUOTE=myki]
I have a Marantz SR7200 driving 4ohm Dynaudio Audience all around.

Myki: greetings, you have the Dynaudio Audience! great taste. These are the only speakers that I've auditioned that have really knocked my socks off. I compared them to comparably priced B&Ws and Paradigms and they were distinctively better. My wish list is to have the Dyns powered by a 1075/1068 system, which is what you have, so I'm jealous. I know the Dyns are very musical and great for 2 channel but how do you find them for HT? That's my only concern... other than saving up my pennies for them.

[myki]

DrJRapp, alkalay,

Yes, I guess you're right. Listening utopia is even harder to quantify than a woman's sex appeal. I have friends who think fat is sexy while others prefer ultra-skinny.

Well, I'll let you know my findings in a week or two on how I perceive the improvements to be.

myki

[myki]

mikeyc,

I have to agree. I started with Wharfedale Diamond's, then to B&W 601's, and finally to Dynaudio Audience 52's and 42's. I've only been using my Marantz SR7200 to drive them but it handled them all quite well.

The Dyns were my biggest investment this year so I really took my time to research and audition. I listened to B&W 602's, Monitor Audio Bronze, Triangle Titus, Usher, etc. But I ended up with the Audience 52. It improved the sound in all aspects from my 601's: the cymbals were eeringly real sounding, the vocals were alive and much more imaged in the center, the highs were not tiring, the sound was just more involving.

After buying the Dyns, I got addicted to stereo music. So from 80% HT, 20% Music... I was transformed into a 50% HT, 50% Music. To answer your inquiry, HT improved as well. I noticed the difference more on the sound of a human voice. It's more real now. The 601's were a bit tingy or slightly sibilant (sounds of Ch, th, ts, etc.). But if I didn't care about stereo music, I would stick it out with the 601s. I really loved those speakers as well. (But I hated the LCR60)

BUT, I do listen to a LOT of DVD concerts and to multi-channel DVD-Audio and SACD music and the Dyns really brought out the best for these.

And then one day, I passed by an audio shop where I heard a used Audience 42 ($300) connected to a Musical Fidelity X-150 (?) and my jaw dropped! So I then realized that amplification is needed to bring out the best in the Dyns. So I began my journey in the search of the perfect 5-channel amp for me.... and that's the Rotel RMB-1075 which I ordered today. :-)

I plan to use my SR7200 as a pre/pro but I might just sell the SR7200 and get a cheaper SR4500 so I can have the latest decodings and stuff. Since I won't be using the SR4500's amps, then I guess it will be a better decision.

The RSP-1068 is my next upgrade but I'm thinking probably late next year. Hmmmmm... how many lines of Java code do I need to write before I can save for that. hehe

So after my 35th birthday, I will be enjoying (I hope!) the following:

Marantz SR-4500 (as pre/pro for now)
Rotel RMB-1075
Dynaudio Audience 52 (front)
Dynaudio Audience 42C (center)
Dynaudio Audience 42 (surround)
B&W ASW300 (yup, 8" only because I live in a high-rise apartment)

Myki

[cmr15]

Craig I don't thing there's anything wrong with Rotel's receivers at all...in fact they better the most others out there and when limited by space or you don't require the extra power they're the logical choice. The reason however that you see so many recomendations for the seperates is that the cost of the 1075/1068 combo isn't that much different then the typical price of the higher end receivers in which case its perhapse a wise idea to consider going with the seperates. (which could and often is the 1056 receiver paired up with the 1075 amp since the 1056 receiver is often cheaper then the 1068 pre amp)

Andrew,

I hope the tone of my message wasn't taken wrong. If money were no object, I would have gone for the 1095amp/1068. However, the difference between the 1075/1068 and the 1067 just wasn't that significant to me. Also, despite the fact that the cost difference is maybe $400, once you factor in good interconnects the cost could be about $6-700... and that's without the 2 extra 100W amps you get in the 1067 for another room. I was also purchasing 5 dynaudio speakers and a rel sub at the same time... not to mention the fact that there's a new tv that I've got my eye on. That extra $700 probably would have had me sleeping on the couch. :E

Also to you Dynaudio people, I've found that in 2 channel mode, the 1067 really feeds my 4ohm dynaudio 52se's very well (I think it offeres 120w in stereo mode). Mind you, I'm also connecting a rel subwoofer piggybacked on the high level connections. It really fills out the bass nicely for 2 channel.

I guess with any Rotel product, you really can't go wrong! :T

[Andrew Pratt]

how many lines of Java code do I need to write before I can save for that. hehe

Quite a few I'd imagine. What sort of Java Code do you write? I might have some questions for you as I work though a project at work that's mostly in JavaScript.

[myki]

cmr15,

Wow! The 52SE is really a wonderful speaker. I'm sure the 72SE would follow in its footsteps.

Andrew,

I mostly do web applications using IBM Lotus Domino which is in Java. Like any web developer, JavaScript experience is a must. You can e-mail me privately if you need help on anything.

Myki

[mikeyc]

Myki: nice story about how you got into Dyns. I too have the Ushers and Monitor Bronze's on my audition list but I suspect that the Dyns will blow them away. I'm shopping for HT speakers but never thought of using Dyns as I thought they were more for 2 channel music listening. Good to hear that they shine in HT as well. I've heard the 42s and loved them, suspect the 52SE will be even better. I have my eye on a SVS sub, do you think its a good match for the Dyns or does the Dyn sub work well?

Sorry to be OT, maybe we should start a Dyn thread?

[alkalay]

hi again myki,

I read about your move towards stereo listening. :T

Even given that any of the SR you might be using (till the 1068 arrives...) will be only doing a pre/pro stuff, I would watch out for downgrading to a 4500. After hearing what a pre/pro can do to the sound I would audition such a move very carefully.
I had dolby pro logic II on my SR-4200 but I must tell ya, without going in to why, it has nothing to do with the pro logic II I hear through the 1068.

Nice to hear you're a software developer too...

Itai.

[myki]

mikeyc,

I'm sure the 52SE's sound great, but you really must have good amplification. If you only plan to get a budget amp like the NAD C352, then you can be happy with the 42s or 52s. If you have money to spend for amps like the Cyrus 8vs or Roksan Caspian, etc., then I'll go 52SEs.

I haven't heard SVS subs yet. From what I've read, the Dyn subs are great for music but not for home theater. It sacrificed force for musicality. From the Oct 2004 issue of What Hifi, the 5-star winners for their Subwoofer Group Test were:

Up to 300 (British pounds): Wharfedale SW150
300-600: REL Stampede
600-1000: Quad L Series
over 1000: ATC C-4

[myki]

hi again myki,

Even given that any of the SR you might be using (till the 1068 arrives...) will be only doing a pre/pro stuff, I would watch out for downgrading to a 4500. After hearing what a pre/pro can do to the sound I would audition such a move very carefully.
Itai.

Hi alkalay,

Actually, I've loved the Marantz sound since I started this "hobby". I auditioned the SR4500 quite well. I was concerned more on the musicality, the quality of the DSP for processing Dolby Digital, DTS, etc., as well as features. I removed power and dynamics from the equation since I'm confident that the RMB-1075 will handle that.

Here is a post I made regarding my experience with the SR4500 yesterday:

Post on SR4500

Yup! I bought it already! hehehe I'll get the RMB-1075 tonight but I plan to connect it after a few more days of critically listening to the SR4500. Quite frankly, I'm impressed with the SR4500 even without an outboard amp.