HTG official High Definition high octane DVD format war, the aftermath

[Nolan B]

What HI FI Magazine in their December issue says they would not recommend the samsung BD-P1000 or the panasonic DMP-BD10 saying that they are over priced for what they do. They say the (dvd video discs) played on the Samsung is no better than their budget dvd at $150 and the panasonics is no better than the Denon's 1930 player at 250 bucs. They also said the built quality is like todays budget players.The Panasonic was given the edge because of 7.1 analog for future tru hd audio. Both did well in the high def picture quality. I was leaning towards hd dvd, but after finding out how alot of these HI Def players do with regular dvds I will investigate more and choose one that will play all discs very well. I haven't found out anything on how some of the higher end players do with dvd video discs.

the XA2 is getting reviews that it is not only the best HD player on the market, its also as good as any SD DVD upconverting player on the market. Sounds like a real winner.

[comeup]

Vancouver, who makes the XA2?

[comeup]

Found it, Tosihiba i'll check it out, also I want to check out the Pioneer they have a good rep for good picture quality

[AndrewM]

In most cases, the proprietary (Sony) format has lost out to the more open, backed by everyone-else-but-Sony format. In the only exceptions (MiniDisc and SACD), both formats flopped. In just about every case, Sony's format was technically superior - Beta, MD, SACD, and Blu-Ray, but when it comes to marketing and competing, Sony is like a fish out of water.

Why do people only remember the failures? I'd say that pesky CD was an "ok" success How about the 3.5" floppy? There is a bit of Sony technology in the DVD format.

If you look at many of the failures you're also going to see a pattern, MD was an answer to a question nobody asked, SACD was a product that moved farther away from the 'general market' (ie people want portable not high resolution).

VOD over fiber is a LONG way away, Michael Dell was on stage at CES pretty much begging providers to step up the fiber roll out (which isn't even at 1% of household availability yet) for precisely the VOD/media reason. But I don't see it speeding it up at a large level, many of the providers don't have a media business (Bellsouth partners with DirecTV as an example), so for them there isn't much of an upside to spending big bucks rolling out a service with limited payback. The cable companies are loving it though, that little piece of coax coming into your home has a lot of bandwidth capability on it.

Another thing I just thought of. DVD became popular because it replaced VHS and made a HUGE difference in picture quality and convenience. People saw it as the "CD" of movies. Plus the players and discs became affordable quickly.

Players and discs took awhile to get affordable, it was 5-6yrs before players dipped under $100, 3-4 years for them to get under $200. And the release costs of players was pretty much the same (most were $1k'ish but there was a couple of $500'ish players). Media costs are pretty much a wash, the internet is cheaper right now, but back in 97/98/99 I was paying between $20-25 per DVD movie (and there was no initial release special pricing).

HD-DVD/BD are a bit like DVD-A and SACD to the majority of the public. To them, CDs and SD-DVDs are perfectly fine. On their 27" TVs, they won't notice much of a difference going to an HD format, just like they didn't see any benefit of high-res audio on their $150 WalMart plastic HTIB. The improvement of going from VHS to DVD (or LP/cassette to CD) just isn't there when making the jump to HD/BD, unless you're one of us with the fancy home theater.

I saw some info that put the "main" TV size in a household at around 40-42" in about 50% of homes in 2006. I wish I could find that info again.

But between the hip (and much more wife friendly) flat panel TV's, the millions and millions of sports fans and a few other key things people are buying up 40"+ HD displays over the past few years.

For me, I've got both HD and BD in the house - King Kong, Grand Prix, Fantastic 4, Phantom of the Opera, Blackhawk Down, Blazing Saddles, Unforgiven, Miami Vice, Casino and a couple others (I get it all mixed up SD and HD now) on HD/BD discs. If I want to get really picky I can see some issues on some of the movies, and keep in mind I haven't seen any of the really bad discs, but even mediocre HD looks way better than SD ever did.

[Lex]

Andrew, your response is very fair, and true IMO. I agree, Sony has brought us much in entertainment that people just don't remember. Now this is a fashion statement, but guess who built the first contemporary designed TV years ago? That's right, Sony. How many modern cabinet TVs followed? hundreds. The CD is of course a monumental accomplishment that changed history even, giving us music of old with a new lease on life! Kind of Blue 1959 Miles Davis comes to mind. Wow, just redbook CD is amazing.

Now, the fight is on, but I'm with Andrew now, I've got both, I'll buy both, so far I started out with a preference of BD due to my dedicated Sony player, but the quality of the HD DVDs is far to good to put down in any way, and I'll use my HD-DVD drive for my 360 to the fullest. I watched The Bourne Supremacy last night on HD-DVD, and the quality was liquid. On my 1080i projected Z4 image, that's not to bad. I am chomping at the bit for Bourne Identity now, I hope I find it soon, or has it come out?

My latest thing is, I grab up a handful of old SD DVDs that I either no longer watch, or have dups because of sound format upgrades, etc, and go to a used store that has a new disc selection. I sell back for trade price (get more from them that way), then go right to the HD section and dive in. I came home with Spy Games and Million Dollar Baby tonight for a net of 20.00 out of pocket after trades. Now, I can trade my SD Spy Games and MDB too, so I'll add those with a few others to sell and pick up another title. I'm growing my HD collection now, it's the only way. I will keep films that I love that are only in SD. Others that I have no desire to watch again, can be traded.

[cobbpa]

The Middle Ground

http://dvdfile.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5860&Itemid=11

This seems reasonable to me during the 'war' period. My only qualm is that it may serve to actually extend the fight. I thought the New Line movies listed in the article could have swayed victory to HD-DVD's side. Regardless, definitely a neat capability & something that will be useful. They're pretty serious about it, "Warner plans on releasing its high definition content exclusively on Total HD once production begins: no more separate HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc releases."

[Lex]

Warner has in mind 2 things. 1, increase profit margin per disc. 2, decrease distribution costs by lessening the amount of discs required to meet market. Theoretically, they'd sell the same amount of discs, assuming price doesn't say to people "I don't think I will buy this movie that I was going to buy at the standard release price now at the dual release price, and walk away from it.

I'm tempted to walk away from any combo disc for this reason, that we do not want to get them used to being able to charge us that much. They tried and failed before to push the price point up on DVDs beyond what was reasonable.

[AndrewM]

It also makes the retailer happy so they don't have to keep seperate shelves for two formats.

Of course that really only applies if every studio sent out combo-format discs.

Pricing could go either way IMHO, obviously it's more expensive to make a combo format, but perhaps the savings Lex pointed out will negate that and it will keep the price reasonable.

[Lex]

Yes, I saw that advantage coming too Andrew, thinking about the ever expanding selection of BD/HD-DVD. BB has one crowded isle at this point. As it expands, they have to take more space from somewhere else, or offer less.

Interesting article, a lot of rehashing, and some none HD stuff, but worth a read.

http://www.tgdaily.com/2007/01/17/hd_dvd_blu_ray_scalars_analysis/

I do disagree with the Jason Theory that downloadable content is what people will care about by year end. bullsh.. 12 hours for a downloadable high def movie??? LOL. PLEASE. I don't want my computer working that long at any one task, it's sure to lock up or fail long before that completes. GMAB. (Give me a Break)

They say in the same article people preferred simple single sided DVDs to dual, and suddenly they'd rather be system's analysts to watch a movie instead of making a quick trip to BB or a quick online trip to Netflix? Again, I say, PLEASE.

[aud19]

I do disagree with the Jason Theory that downloadable content is what people will care about by year end.

Whoah! I never said anything about year end!?!? 8O But I don't think BD/HD-DVD will have THAT much of an impact either :lol:

[Lex]

That's what some people said about DVD when it came out too... lol.

Jason, you don't have to buy into HD on disc if you don't want to. It's ok, but I gotta say, it's already having some impact. I've already bought a used 3 used HD-DVDs and 1 used BD disc from 2 different stores. I also see activity at BB's section every trip there. Not just looking, but buying.

Is it that much better than up converted materials? Not in all cases, but it can be.

[Nolan B]

Is it that much better than up converted materials? Not in all cases, but it can be.

I find this statement strange. I have 50 HD DVD/BD tittles and while some are better then others ALL are much, much better then even the best DVD being upconverted by top of the line components.

example. My wort looking HD tittle is probably Caddyshack and it still looks better then LOTR ROTK SEE upconverted with my iScan HD.

[JonMarsh]

I find this statement strange. I have 50 HD DVD/BD tittles and while some are better then others ALL are much, much better then even the best DVD being upconverted by top of the line components.

example. My wort looking HD tittle is probably Caddyshack and it still looks better then LOTR ROTK SEE upconverted with my iScan HD.

I'm with him on this one- not that there can't be scenarios where this doesn't seem to be the case, but then it's usually due to egregrious display issues (like a display down converting 1080 to 720P then overscanning, resulting in a soft so called HD image, such as on many of the 1366X768 panel displays out these days).

If you've got a 1080P capable display like FPTV CRT or a 1080P native panel display, then there's just no comparison. Even besides that, there's more color bandwidth and generally better color rendering, plus in my experience so far with HDTV less artifacting and noise. (unless it's a source transfer issue, but most released disks on the HD-DVD side have used pretty good source material).

I'm curious to see an XA2, because the XA 1 does a good job of upscaling (better than my Oppo 971, which I gave to my daughter, and which was one of the top DVD upscalers), and the XA2 uses a new lower cost Realta HQV chip, and reports are it's very good with all kinds of delinterlacing and scaling.

But for now, I'm pretty happy with what I've got, and spending more money on movies...

[Lex]

Vancouver, it's not strange when you own the Samsung DVD-HD1000 that upconverts to 1080i or 720p. So, I do not use an HD-DVD or BD player for my upconversions. My Samsung has had a conversion done that enables the transfer to 720p or 1080i of basically all movies. Samsung had to quit making it due to the agreements with studios not to output an HD upconverted signal over component video, but not before I scored two of them. :-)

Plus I do not own 1080p, all I do is 1080i, so that allows them to be closer as well. Mostly, I was comparing inferior BD releases to my upconversions though, saying that from the worst of BD to the best of non HD upconverts, the differences are narrowed.

[Chris D]

I thought this was rather funny, captured and linked through another site: :roll:

Blu-ray: HD DVD Can't Prevail Without Studio Support

While LG and Warner Bros. were making headlines at the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) for their solutions to possibly end the high-definition DVD format war, the Blu-ray and HD DVD camps were busy duking it out. I sat down with representatives from both sides for in-depth interviews.

For the Blu-ray camp, it's all about content. At their CES press conference, they brought out studio heads to discuss the 2007 lineup of Blu-ray movies and tout the content they already have.



I interviewed Andy Parsons, promotion chair of the Blu-ray Disc Association and senior vice president of Pioneer, and Bill Sheppard, senior industry manager for Digital TV at Sun Microsystems, who were interested in talking about what the format has accomplished so far and the studio backing.

"We're just really trying to highlight the industry support," said Parsons.

Blu-ray is backed by Sony, Fox, Disney, Lionsgate, MGM and Buena Vista -- HD DVD is supported by Universal and segments of the porn industry. Warner Bros. is supporting both formats.

"Nobody buys my company's player because it goes well with the furniture -- they buy it because it's a gateway to [content]," Parsons said. "You're going to tell someone that they can't watch Disney movies and Fox movies on an HD DVD player?"

Parsons and Sheppard said that the lower price point for HD DVD players isn't a hindrance for Blu-ray adoption, and questioned whether Toshiba has a feasible business model when players are sold at a loss.

"It's cheap, but maybe it's cheap for a reason," said Parsons. "If someone wants to spend $499 on a player, they should get a PS3."

For more of the interview with Blu-ray execs, check out
http://www.cepro.com/news/editorial/17508.html

And the HD-DVD position:

HD DVD: Blu-ray Camp Spreads Lies, Misinformation

While LG and Warner Bros. were making headlines at the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) for their solutions to possibly end the high-definition DVD format war, the Blu-ray and HD DVD camps were busy duking it out. I sat down with representatives from both sides for in-depth interviews.

"It's all lies."

So said David Chaplin, manager of the HD DVD Mobile Experience, when I told him I had sat down with representatives from the Blu-ray camp at CES and wanted to get the HD DVD camp's perspective on the format war.



"There's nothing worse than misinformation," said Chaplin, arguing that support for Blu-ray isn't as rock-solid as the camp would have you believe.

For example, Samsung -- developer of the BD-P1000 Blu-ray player and recently announced BD-P1200 -- is not squarely in the Blu-ray camp, Chaplin argued, because of the company's M55 laptop computer, which includes an HD DVD drive.

"That tells me Samsung has lost all faith in [Blu-ray]," he said. "It shows their lack of confidence in [it]."

The Blu-ray storage capacity advantage -- 51GB HD DVD discs aside -- is a "moot point," he said. "I can't think of any title that would need more space, from a studio's standpoint," said Chaplin. A disc like King Kong, he argued, is over 3 hours long, and the movie, commentary tracks and more fit on one 30 GB disc.

For more on the interview with the HD DVD camp, check out
http://www.cepro.com/news/editorial/17509.html

More fodder for the fire.

[George Bellefontaine]

Ahhhh, the latest episode of As The World Turns. :Z

[Brandon B]

No George, As the Next-gen High Density Optical Video Format Turns. :Z

I thing the world is largely oblivious.

BB

[Chris D]

We've reached a new level when one competitor just calls the other a liar.

[David Meek]

Sheesh. This does make you kind of want to barf, doesn't it? :roll:

[JonMarsh]

It's rather unfortunate all around. If I thought there was a clear case for pointing the finger at one company or another for the "blame", I'd be tempted to do that, but everyone is fighting for every buck they can make off of this- income from patent portfoilios being just as important as income from players directly.

Just got a baby 37" Westinghouse 1080P (like the one I got for my daughter) I'm setting up this afternoon in my bedroom becuase my living room is in a shambles due to speaker testing over the last couple of months; no HT on the big NEC- I figure I need to start WATCHING some of these HD-DVD movies I've bought. Heck, I've got many DVD's I've bought saving for finishing tweaking up the main HT that I haven't watched, going all the way back to Saving Private Ryan- my only video entertainment for a while has been TV shows on DVD or more lately TV shows from iTunes, usually on the BigMac as the selection is greater and the releases more recent.

~Jon

[Brandon B]

OK, I will admit I lean toward the Blu-Ray camp in this discussion, but reading through this:

http://www.hdnowonline.com/Comment_BD_1G_Obsolete.html

about basically all BD players produced now and for the enxt several months being obsoleted to some degree by an updated spec makes me more than a little pissed.

Read it, it's pretty sad.

BB

[AndrewM]

Keep in mind that the site is very much pro-HD-DVD and anti-blu-ray. With that said, who knows if what they posted is true or not, but given the way some of the BD products have been "rushed" to market, it wouldn't be all that suprising, however I doubt the issue will be quite as bad as the article makes it out to be. But who knows.

[JonMarsh]

While it's true that this site is very pro HD-DVD, I've been following these arguements in a number of locations, and these guys have updated stuff as required to keep things factually accurate basedon the most current released information.

I have deferred purchasing a Blu Ray player for the exact reasons they list, as well as the shortcomings in the PS3 and the lack of Hardware scaling support in the PS3 and problems with 720P HD support in the PS3.

Unfortunately, it seems to be that there is not a truly "complete and compiant" player yet available for BR yet. I'm sure there will be later in the year, but as of now, I agree that the BR promo vides are at best disingenuous in the features they display which are not actually present on shipping players.

I'm disheartened when competitive pressures seemingly compel companies to be something less than completely truthful in their promotional efforts, especially when they drop the ball on delivered features and media quality after having built up a premise of being the "preferred" solution because of "technological superiority". The proof, afterall, is in the pudding.

Ironically, it reminds me too much of what Microsoft does on the PC side. MS efforts with HD-DVD and the XBox 360 have been more impressive- actually bought one of those this holiday season and have been fairly pleased with it, including the HD-DVD addon.

~Jon

[Brandon B]

I have deferred purchasing a Blu Ray player for the exact reasons they list, as well as the shortcomings in the PS3 and the lack of Hardware scaling support in the PS3 and problems with 720P HD support in the PS3.

Now there are rumblings that there is a scalar in the PS3, and that Sony was forbidding its use by threatening non-certification of games, a ban they have now partially lifted for unknown reasons.

BB

[JonMarsh]

Yeah, the newest release of the PS3 SDK has functions for horizontal line scaling- but that's all. Rather odd, all in all...

All in all, as a consumer, I get a little squirrelly feeling when there's that much effort to control a platform in ways that don't seem in the consumer's interest, but for secondary business reasons.

Time will tell. I imagine with it's programmability and update possibilities, I'll still wind up wtih a PS3, too, but it may not be fore a while- for similar reasons why I wasn't at all compelled to pick up an XBox 360 until this December. I'm not really a big gamer, anyway- on the Xbox side, I only have Call of Duty and Oblivion and Fear. I'm looking forward to Mass Effect though, as it looks to do something special with the whole Sci Fi RGP genre.

[Nolan B]

^^^that game is probably the most anticipated game for me ever. I am planing to take a few days off work when its released.

[Brandon B]

Yeah, I saw the preview for that a whie back and my decision not to buy a 360 was knocked cold and out for severla days until I remembered I don't spend much time actually gaming.

BB

[drsiebling]

What HI FI Magazine in their December issue says they would not recommend the samsung BD-P1000 or the panasonic DMP-BD10 saying that they are over priced for what they do. They say the (dvd video discs) played on the Samsung is no better than their budget dvd at $150 and the panasonics is no better than the Denon's 1930 player at 250 bucs. They also said the built quality is like todays budget players.The Panasonic was given the edge because of 7.1 analog for future tru hd audio. Both did well in the high def picture quality. I was leaning towards hd dvd, but after finding out how alot of these HI Def players do with regular dvds I will investigate more and choose one that will play all discs very well. I haven't found out anything on how some of the higher end players do with dvd video discs.

I seriously question What Hi Fi's intregrity if they truly believe that the Panny Blu-Ray player is a sub-standard upconverting DVD player. The DMP-BD10 not only easily betters my Denon DVD-2910, but it is clearly far superior to any of the current Toshiba HD DVD players on the market at upscaling. Of course, what they also fail to mention is that the Panny has the best audio section of any current HD player and also performs like a second generation player with no quirks or weird audio dropouts, freezes or strange behavior like the current Toshibas.

The Panny really is a remarkable player.

[Nolan B]

The DMP-BD10 not only easily betters my Denon DVD-2910, but it is clearly far superior to any of the current Toshiba HD DVD players on the market at upscaling.

Have you tested the Toshiba XA2 for upscaling? everything I have read says it compars to stand alone video processors when it come to upscaling.

[Blindamood]

Yeah, the Toshiba HD-XA2 does look very compelling. I have seen it priced at around $800, which makes it more affordable than the blu-ray players. Apparently it is still in limited supply, but is shipping from some dealers.

With superior upscaling (as has been reported), and the inclusion of ethernet support and hdmi 1.3, this seems to be a good solution for HD and still making use of my extensive SD dvd collection. I would still have to keep the Onkyo DV-SP1000 for multi-channel music only, which is definitely one of its strengths.

Problem is, I told myself I wasn't doing any system updates this year... :roll:

[Chris D]

Yeah, and I told myself I wouldn't ever weigh 50 pounds more than I did in high school.

[Evil Twin]

And I promised never to go over to the Dark Side...

No updates this year would be most unsatisfactory, and is a resoultion I've already broken on the HT side, in spite of my darkest intentions.

[drsiebling]

Have you tested the Toshiba XA2 for upscaling? everything I have read says it compars to stand alone video processors when it come to upscaling.

The Xa2 is a great upconverting player, and I own both, but I think the Panny still has a slight edge.

[Lex]

Sports fans (I don't mean that literally)

Best Buy snuck in the new LD dual format player, unless I've been asleep and it's already been discussed. I won't say for 1200 smacks it's drop dead gorgeous to look at, but it does play both discs. I have no idea of the quality in either format.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8203311&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat87100050009&id=1165610378688

[Chris D]

Cool. Isn't it limited with its HD-DVD capability, though?

[John Holmes]

Strange, with all the playback formats listed, I saw nothing about CD support. Not that it may be a deal breaker for the person wanting both HD-DVD formats, but heck, it plays darn near everything else.

[Blindamood]

Okay, I just found the Sony BDP-S1 blu-ray player for $799 shipped, from an authorized dealer. It is getting harder and harder to avoid jumping in at this price point... :roll:

[Brandon B]

You ought to read the comparisons of that unit to the playstation3 before you buy.

Basically in the standalone deck's favor - IR remote, works with universal remotes, has dedicated multichannel analog out for those without HDMI capabale pre/pro or receiver, upscales SD DVD.

In the PS3's favor - far faster bootup and general operational responsiveness (i.e., fast forward is smooth and amazing due to processing power in the unit), equivalent or better picture quality, lower price (either version will do you), other functionality (i.e. it plays games and SACDs), possible further improvements via firmware updates (which may eventually include SD DVD upscaling, but no guarantees).

The more I read about it in this capacity, the more sold I am.

BB

[Blindamood]

Going with the Sony

Well, for better or worse, I finally jumped in with both feet...firmly in the Blu-ray camp :B

I found the BDP-S1 at another site for even less than what I posted above, so I went for it! Can't wait to experience high-def movies for the first time.

Ordered 4 of the more highly-rated blu-ray discs from amazon.com to go with: Crank, The Departed, Tears of the Sun, and Kingdom of Heaven. The Sony also ships with one disc, either The Fifth Element or Black Hawk Down (with the latest allocations).

Will report back when I receive it and have a chance to try it out.

[ToddAnisman]

Jason, sorry, but I am going to wholeheartedly disagree with downloadable movies. Or maybe video on demand. I think this is just yet one more attempt at copyright control, and I for one am not interested in paying for a movie each time I use it, we said no to that once before with Circuit City's DVD thing.

Frankly, I don't even want them downloadable. First off, I don't want to tie up my bandwidth just to get a movie I want to watch. I don't want to be actively involved in creating movie discs, and I dang sure do not want to use my computer as a player for my home theater. cough, I had my HTPC experience thanks, I prefer standalone products, and I prefer factory disc packs with descriptions, extras, the whole shooting match. :-)

One of these formats is more than a blip on the radar screen if not both, I believe we will have DVD in HD format for a LONG time.

Lex-

I tend to agree wtih Jason. Since I'm privy to more industry studio content, I tend to think that DRM/ VOD is going to be the model of the future. Already we are seeing companies such as Technicolor (who I worked for for 10years) and Ascent Media building huge storage libraries of elements that can be digitally stored, as opposed to the traditional Tape approach. The reason DIVX failed, IMO, is that you still had to buy a disc for a high price (about $15 if I recall correctly), and have a physical disc. But if you have VOD as a stream( and Bandwidth and servers are getting there, trust me!!!), then you have a cheap instant form of Entertainment that will always be there for you.

That being said, I think that BRD and HDDVD wil be around for the same type period as DVD has been (>10yrs.)

I'll give you an example of why I think this migration will happen-

Right now, many Films are being delivered in Digital, on Drives to various theaters around the world. However, The Studios are actively looking for ways to deliver this content via Satelite or other electronic means. As bandwidth gets cheaper, then this will become a reality, simply because the studios want it to be.

The studios want DRM. It's a reality. So it will happen, reagardless of what we as consumers want. You should see the lengths that the studios are going to protect their product- NDA's, Security inspections, Hiring of Ex-CIA or FBI Officers, Cameras, searches, etc. It's gottenm to be pretty crazy. Technicolor actually wanted to implement Bio-Metric Readers at one point!!!

Physical discs will eventually become a thing of the past, replaced by somewhat cumbersome Digital Files that will be difficult to "Crack"

My .02

-Todd A.

[Lex]

Well Todd, the day I have to "borrow" a movie, will be the day I quit buying movies. I'll be watching the 500 or 600 I already own over and over and over til I wear out every player in the house. The consumer won't matter until they start counting their dollars and cents at the end of the day, and then Joe 6 pack wins. Acceptance from Joe is slow. Joe sets the pace, not eht studios as they'd like to believe. Piracy at the end user level is low anyway, their problem is at a much higher level than that, and they are not going to stop that easily.

Fact is, the consumer's technologies and more important, technological capabilities, will be 15 years behind something like this even being a reality, wait and see...

[Pez]

Well, for better or worse, I finally jumped in with both feet...firmly in the Blu-ray camp :B

I found the BDP-S1 at another site for even less than what I posted above, so I went for it! Can't wait to experience high-def movies for the first time.

Ordered 4 of the more highly-rated blu-ray discs from amazon.com to go with: Crank, The Departed, Tears of the Sun, and Kingdom of Heaven. The Sony also ships with one disc, either The Fifth Element or Black Hawk Down (with the latest allocations).

Will report back when I receive it and have a chance to try it out.

I just watched Crank on my PS3 - prepare for your IQ to drop a few points.

[Blindamood]

Wow, I just got this baby hooked up and I did watch Crank...this thing is amazing! The clarity of the picture was beyond anything I had imagined. Much better than the HD television shows I'm used to.

The BDP-S1 is hooked up to my 'older' rptv, with HDMI>DVI cable. Picture is set to 'Auto', which comes through at 1080i on this set. I've looked at newer sets, but this makes me think this tv will be around for a while yet.

Yeah, I know Sony is coming out with the newer, better, cheaper in the next couple of months, but I'll be enjoying the BDP-S1 now.

Keeping my Onkyo DV-SP1000, which is now relegated to audio only duty, for multi-channel SACD and DVD-Audio.

[Chris D]

Funny about Crank.

We always call Joe Six-Pack J6P. I don't have a six-pack for abs, so I'm going to start calling myself Chris Keg Gut, or CKG for short.

[ToddAnisman]

Well Todd, the day I have to "borrow" a movie, will be the day I quit buying movies. I'll be watching the 500 or 600 I already own over and over and over til I wear out every player in the house. The consumer won't matter until they start counting their dollars and cents at the end of the day, and then Joe 6 pack wins. Acceptance from Joe is slow. Joe sets the pace, not eht studios as they'd like to believe. Piracy at the end user level is low anyway, their problem is at a much higher level than that, and they are not going to stop that easily.

Fact is, the consumer's technologies and more important, technological capabilities, will be 15 years behind something like this even being a reality, wait and see...

i hear you. FWIW, I'm sure Discs will be available for many years to satisfy consumers that fall into your category (which is also mine as well....).

While acceptance of DVD and CD were slow, iTunes certainly wasn't...so perhaps that model is again changing.

Also, I think that an more palatable alternative would be downloadable movies that have DRM like the iTunes Store AAC's. It will certainly be interesting to see.

-Todd A.