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What if the Wavecor Ardent and Natalie P had a "love child"?

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  • What if the Wavecor Ardent and Natalie P had a "love child"?

    This is a new "Evil Design Study" in the old tradition, which will soon be converted to an active project as components ordered begin to arrive...

    The premise is quite simple, based on a few objectives which have been prioritized:
    • Extended LF performance with low distortion
    • Demonstrated low midrange distortion, based on a triple ring motor and early measurements
    • An MTM configuration readily adaptable to varying LF response targets, with comfortable Xmax margins relative to output
    • HF behavior with demonstrated wide polar response and very low distortion.
    • High value proposition- no $400 drivers. No $300 Drivers. No $200 drivers. But with performance that exceeds most of those...

    Of course, Hoffman's Iron law being what it is, relatively compact enclosures and solid deep bass means that efficiency is on the lower side, like the Wavecor Ardent. In consideration...
    • Usage of an LF driver straddling the boundary between subwoofer and sub, as done for the Wavecor Ardent
      • Two 4 ohm drivers wired in series, to present a reasonable load for midrange amplifiers to drive
      • Extended LF response with several configuration options
      • Exceptionally flat intrinsic driver response
      • Half space sensitivity of ~85 db- bring your "A game" for voltage output in the power amplifier- consider for HT level SPL only with 100W+ capability.
    • MTM Two way- the NatP lineage
      • 1800Hz crossover using an extended range tweeter with demonstrated low distortion and top octave dispersion
      • Two Dayton woofers, 9mm Xmax
      • Extended low frequency performance with several configurations to choose from
      • Notch suppression networks for woofer and tweeter, as per the original Natalie P, to suppress driver breakup mode in the SPL response and to cut resonance amplification of distortion products. PuriFi understands this now, I did 20 years ago.


    Proposed system name:

    Natalie P Ultra LE


    Proposed drivers are the Dayton RSS210HF-4, and the Peerless DA25TX00-8.


    Click image for larger version  Name:	1_RSS210HF-4_.jpg Views:	0 Size:	83.9 KB ID:	930317



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    In the proposed configuration for Unibox Calculations:



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    28L Sealed system configuration: F3 of 41 Hz

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    40L Vented Configuration: F3 of 31 Hz


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    48L Passive Radiator configuration with 1 RSS265PR: F3 of 30Hz


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    Measured half space SPL response of the RSS210HF-8, for system proposal analysis


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    Approximate (3dB too high) Response modeling for the proposed baffle width and design axis:

    Click image for larger version  Name:	9_NatalieP Baffle Data Screen.png Views:	0 Size:	106.1 KB ID:	930325



    The DA25TX00-8 is proven in previous designs, and we have found a remote vendor with some stock and have NIB NOS on hand for an LE edition by Steve Manning- (Limited Edition)



    DA25 SPL and distortion as used in the SMJ Calliope speaker:


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    Polar response measured in the Calliope 0-30 degrees:


    Click image for larger version  Name:	X_Polar 0-30 Deg MkII.png Views:	0 Size:	161.9 KB ID:	930327










    Last edited by Evil Twin; 20 March 2023, 11:23 Monday. Reason: Adding tags
    DFAL
    Dark Force Acoustic Labs

    A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

  • #2
    I will build this.
    - Danny

    Comment


    • #3
      I too will build this!!!

      Comment


      • #4
        This sounds like it would make an excellent surround for the 7.x I have been dreaming to create. Does Evil Twin have any cabinet designs to share for this design?
        Painter in training

        Comment


        • #5
          There is a 3D CAD drawing started for the sealed version of this concept- it should be ready to show soon. In its present form, it is derived from the SMJ-40 concept project, basically an extended version of the top module cabinet. I have taken over THAT effort also, and an update will be coming there as soon as some local communication issues are ironed out, with regards to an "assistant" interfacing with the local telecommunication infrastructure.

          Expect a 10-1/2" cabinet width, approximately 24" tall, and 12-14" deep. Width is "fixed" at this point, the other two parameters will be adjusted to achieve a suitable height and necessary cabinet volume.
          DFAL
          Dark Force Acoustic Labs

          A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by svenarajala View Post
            This sounds like it would make an excellent surround for the 7.x I have been dreaming to create. Does Evil Twin have any cabinet designs to share for this design?
            The timing and perspicacity of your inquiry leads me to speculate that perhaps you are in alliance with Rebel spies active near this facility...

            It is most curious that the server reports that I was not "authorized" to make this comment in a "Comment"... is there a prohibition against Siths?
            DFAL
            Dark Force Acoustic Labs

            A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

            Comment


            • technodanvan
              technodanvan commented
              Editing a comment
              This Rebel spy can comment on your comment without issue. Perhaps Dark Lords are treated as 'less than' for some nefarious reason?

          • #7
            While showing that I was logged in, the system nonetheless required a password again to enter the post above.
            DFAL
            Dark Force Acoustic Labs

            A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

            Comment


            • theSven
              theSven commented
              Editing a comment
              Don't forget to check the Remember Me box when logging in. There is some weird header stuff that I haven't figured out yet. Checking the Remember Me checkbox should keep you logged in while the browser is open and cookies are not cleared.

          • #8
            I am aware of that requirement. However, I had logged in "fresh" this morning.
            DFAL
            Dark Force Acoustic Labs

            A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

            Comment


            • #9
              Two examples of enclosure concepts being considered...

              For the sealed 28L net application, and for the 48L net Passive Radiator approach.



              Sealed 28L net...



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              The high volume enclosures could be fabricated as a tower, but my experience shows that often creates issues with column resonance. So, a different approach is used here, requiring a stand suitable to the listening circumstances.


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              DFAL
              Dark Force Acoustic Labs

              A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

              Comment


              • theSven
                theSven commented
                Editing a comment
                That is an interesting MTM design!

            • #10
              This looks awesome, I will build these. I have been looking for a good home for my pair of Peerless DA25TX's. Is the choice of the Dayton RSS210HF fixed enough to put these on order? I can play with them as the design finalizes.

              Comment


              • #11
                The choice of the RSS210HF-4 is VERY fixed- having tested many 7" and 8" woofers, it's combination of superior cone behavior of a wide frequency range, a linear motor with three faraday rings, and moderate Xmax and sensitivity have earmarked it for several designs- there are currently 8 on hand in my lab storage, with more coming in the end of this week.

                Note, for one application 4 are being employed in series parallel, and at 90 dB output the distortion signature for HD2 and HD3 looks like this:


                Click image for larger version

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                I consider this to be "most satisfactory"... Note that the distortion spikes are outside the operating range and can be greatly reduced or eliminated by series notch filters in the last stage of the LF crossover.

                The RS210HF-4 is another driver that straddles the "divide" between a subwoofer and woofer, with T/S parameters enabling extended bass, but having a motor and cone design which is clean to a relatively high frequency with monotonically decreasing distortion, unlike some other newer products (like the E180HE-44) which did not live up to expectations when tested in our lab... Of course, there is no avoiding Hoffman's Iron law, so the price to be paid is lower sensitivity for extended bass performance in moderate size enclosures- not too unlike the 6.5" PuriFi drivers.


                Using data measured in other cabinets or QNF, a POC crossover has been developed to give a clearer picture by using baffle modeling with the QNF data; a design will not be fully developed until actual measurements can be made on a sample cabinet.


                Click image for larger version

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                This incorporates Notch filters for both woofer and tweeter breakup modes, which as demonstrated with the Calliope system, and the original Natalie P, greatly reduce or eliminate resonance amplification of distortion products.

                All wood materials are on hand for the initial prototype build for the sealed cabinet version. Once a test cabinet has been constructed, measurements will be collected and the crossover development will proceed in earnest.




                DFAL
                Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                Comment


                • #12
                  Some topological updates to the crossover were explored to lay the ground for working with measured data in the test cabinet when available...


                  Normal connection SPL


                  Click image for larger version

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                  Reverse Null connection SPL


                  Click image for larger version

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                  DFAL
                  Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                  A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                  Comment


                  • #13
                    The RSS210HF is on sale at the moment at Parts Express for $114.98.

                    Comment


                    • #14
                      Originally posted by DonGalgr View Post
                      The RSS210HF is on sale at the moment at Parts Express for $114.98.
                      Why do you hate me?
                      - Danny

                      Comment


                      • #15
                        I believe you might say Don is just exhibiting the more playful part of the Dark Side of the Force...



                        Click image for larger version

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                        DFAL
                        Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                        A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                        Comment


                        • DonGalgr
                          DonGalgr commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Probably the result of being descended from an old family of Irish Draoi. What an unsophisticated people might call someone with a bit access to the force. Not to be mistaken for anything resembling the power of the Dark Lord.

                      • #16
                        As an aside, I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest anyone who doesn't paint these black will have a dark visitor.
                        - Danny

                        Comment


                        • #17
                          Originally posted by technodanvan View Post
                          As an aside, I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest anyone who doesn't paint these black will have a dark visitor.
                          This might be a reasonable inference in it's basic expression... but "paint"?


                          If one aspires to that ultimate expression of confidence and power, mere "paint" is not a satisfactory effort...

                          Something requiring more research and focus will be expected....


                          Click image for larger version

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                          this is an "adequate" example...


                          Otherwise, following that example, and the planned construction for this set, using premium materials such as bamboo composite and pin block maple ply, a skilled application of wipe on polyurethane would be considered "acceptable". Note the use of the word "skilled"... there are standards to be upheld.





                          DFAL
                          Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                          A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                          Comment


                          • #18
                            Some questions have arisen in private communications regarding the enclosure alignments, particularly the sealed alignment...

                            In one popular tool, the inquirer noted that it calculated a Qtc of 0.9 for the sealed alignment, and was concerned that this might have audibly degraded response, as regards step transient response, compared with a classic Butterworth 2nd order with a Qtc of 0.707, I.E., -3dB at Fs.

                            Obviously, with a system F3 of 41 Hz, and a system Fb of 46 Hz, something is going on....

                            Let us explore this question a bit.


                            ​​​​​​​First, let me remind curious minds that only a Q of 0.5 or lower is critically damped. For this alignment, the response is -6dB. This seems an impractical or undesirable target in some regards, but one fairly well known manufacturer from Boulder Colorado employed this, given the consideration that the speakers were to be located in a Cardas arrangement at sufficient distance from boundaries such that the boundary lift of 6dB occurred at the system Fb.

                            The tool used for preliminary enclosure design in the case of the Natalie P Ultra is Unibox, created by Cristian Ougaard 23 years ago, to run under Excel, which thankfully it still does, macros and all.

                            ​​​​​​​In the configuration optimization for the sealed enclosure case, there are four options for enclosure damping, and the one used is "Heavy Fill". With "No Fill", the calculated Qtc is 0.925; with "Minimal Fill", 0.921, with walls covered (it does not say what they are covered with...) 0.891, and with "Heavy Fill" 0.801. Of course, for alignments like vented and passive radiator, the typical usage is wall covered, though I have created systems in the past which benefitted from heavy fill- it all depends on the complete assessment of the alignment.

                            Note that both the vented and PR alignment proposed here for the Natalie P Ultra are not sharply tuned as regards the Helmholtz resonance and behavior more like a Bessel filter in the roll off and step characteristic instead of a Butterworth or Chebyshev.


                            Of course, regarding how "tight" the bass is, if one is truly referring to transient step response, as opposed to merely avoiding a bloat or hump in the bandpass due to poor system response or placement, calculating the step response can be reasonably illuminating...


                            Natalie P Ultra Sealed 28L net


                            Click image for larger version

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                            Natalie P Ultra Vented, 40L



                            Click image for larger version

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                            Natalie P Ultra 1 RSS265PR 48L net



                            Click image for larger version

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                            Note that this is a soft corner relatively well damped Passive Radiator design. See the posted calculated response curve earlier in the topic.







                            DFAL
                            Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                            A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                            Comment


                            • #19
                              ET - Thanks for the post above.

                              One question: is offsetting the tweeter an option?

                              Comment


                              • #20
                                That was not planned for the development of this system- there are potential reasons to consider that if a speaker is not going to be toed in, but it requires a more thorough examination of the directivity on the enclosure and adjustments to the crossover, as was done for the original Natalie P.
                                DFAL
                                Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                Comment


                                • #21
                                  I just noticed you don't have the tweeters flush mounted in your models, is that on purpose? My (albeit limited) understanding is that would exacerbate the time differential between tweeter and woofer.

                                  Also, I seem to recall the Calliope using felt around the tweeter. Will that be recommended for this design as well? Or am I mistaken...
                                  - Danny

                                  Comment


                                  • #22
                                    The baffle plate for the DA25TX00-08 is fairly thin- and with the use of a felt pad in the tweeter region, rebating is optional. This is another reason that the dual purpose brace/crossover platform acts as a subenclsoure for the tweeter, so that it does not have a rear pressure wave to contend with.
                                    DFAL
                                    Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                    A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                    Comment


                                    • #23
                                      FYI Danny, for both the Calliope and the Ardent D, the tweeters are recessed and no felt in site.
                                      Hold on to your butts - It's about to get Musical!



                                      WEBSITE: http://www.smjaudio.com/

                                      Comment


                                      • technodanvan
                                        technodanvan commented
                                        Editing a comment
                                        Thanks for confirming my mind is going already Steve!

                                    • #24
                                      Is this the time I should mention my "secret" plan to create and evaluate Wilson style diffraction rings on the tweeters?
                                      DFAL
                                      Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                      A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                      Comment


                                      • #25
                                        This topic is no longer a "Design Study" but is now an active construction and test project.

                                        2D detailed drawings are nearly complete for the 28-30L enclosure concept, and part fabrication is underway. PDF's should be posted shortly.

                                        Components are being collected for the initial POC crossover development, and drivers are ready.
                                        DFAL
                                        Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                        A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                        Comment


                                        • #26
                                          Originally posted by Evil Twin View Post
                                          ...drivers are ready.
                                          As are mine!

                                          Edit: For those interested in the PR version of these, the PR in question is on sale right now.

                                          https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton...500?quantity=1

                                          - Danny

                                          Comment


                                          • #27
                                            Now I will share some preliminary drawings which may be "useful" for those considering their own build of the sealed version in the near future...

                                            Note that the front panel design posted here was created with a 1-1/8" width, as is available for single sheet MDF. The Imperial build from DFAL will use 1-1/4" maple ply, due to its superior mechanical properties.


                                            Click image for larger version

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                                            PDF's for download are below of all cabinet parts.










                                            Attached Files
                                            DFAL
                                            Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                            A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

                                            Comment


                                            • #28
                                              Originally posted by technodanvan View Post

                                              As are mine!

                                              Edit: For those interested in the PR version of these, the PR in question is on sale right now.

                                              https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton...500?quantity=1
                                              Tempting - but the smaller/sealed enclosure is equally tempting. Decisions - Decisions!

                                              Comment


                                              • #29
                                                Originally posted by Evil Twin View Post
                                                ........and fabrication is underway.
                                                How exciting - looking forward to your results. I'm curious if the performance of the tweeter will be impacted at all by the tall surrounds of the woofers.

                                                A few years ago, I made an MTM using Dayton ND105s and Vifa BC25SC06-04. The performance of the tweeter was severely compromised due to woofers' high surrounds and close proximity (further exasperated by symmetrical tweeter placement).

                                                Comment


                                                • #30
                                                  I think I'll be going sealed for these, and I might make three (if Parts Express seriously has one Peerless tweeter actually available). I have been wanting to make a standmount loudspeaker with PR, but I believe I am set on a design by the late Jeff Bagby - the Helios. These may make a very nice LCR setup for a game room though.

                                                  I did order 8 PRs anyway (to go with the 12 I already have for another project) for my version of the Saint-Saëns loudspeaker.

                                                  - Danny

                                                  Comment


                                                  • #31
                                                    I'm leaning towards sealed too for these and would use them for rear and side surrounds. Bear built some Helios a year or two ago I seem to recall. I also am thinking very seriously about the SMJ-40 as I have wanted a ribbon tweeter build forever and a day. I was fascinated from when I heard a ribbon set a friend had.
                                                    Painter in training

                                                    Comment


                                                    • #32
                                                      Originally posted by technodanvan View Post
                                                      I think I'll be going sealed for these, and I might make three (if Parts Express seriously has one Peerless tweeter actually available). I have been wanting to make a standmount loudspeaker with PR, but I believe I am set on a design by the late Jeff Bagby - the Helios. These may make a very nice LCR setup for a game room though.

                                                      I did order 8 PRs anyway (to go with the 12 I already have for another project) for my version of the Saint-Saëns loudspeaker.

                                                      You'll find that you can't buy just that one, because of how Peerless setup a minimum quantity.

                                                      I have three more coming with order processing pending on the last three at an Australian distributor- if you want one of these, I can sell it to you at my cost, but that came to about $100 each with shipping. Of course, if you know of a better performing tweeter for $100, please let me know- Steve and I have been looking for a while!

                                                      I have about 7 pairs on hand saved for Steve's projects and for ET's Natalie P Ultra LE build. LE stands for Limited Edition- as in the sourcing of the tweeter.
                                                      the AudioWorx
                                                      Natalie P
                                                      M8ta
                                                      Modula Neo DCC
                                                      Modula MT XE
                                                      Modula Xtreme
                                                      Isiris
                                                      Wavecor Ardent

                                                      SMJ
                                                      Minerva Monitor
                                                      Calliope
                                                      Ardent D

                                                      In Development...
                                                      Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                      Obi-Wan
                                                      Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                      Modula PWB
                                                      Calliope CC Supreme
                                                      Natalie P Ultra
                                                      Natalie P Supreme
                                                      Janus BP1 Sub


                                                      Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                      Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                      Comment


                                                      • #33
                                                        Originally posted by technodanvan View Post
                                                        I did order 8 PRs anyway (to go with the 12 I already have for another project) for my version of the Saint-Saëns loudspeaker.

                                                        Y’all are just crazy!!!!

                                                        Comment


                                                        • #34
                                                          Hey, Danny's not crazy, he's just taking a proactive measure to manage supply chain issues in the modern world!

                                                          I currently have 12 Dayton PRs of various sizes on hand, and 8 of the new SLR26R XM003.

                                                          Of course, I have delusions of running an engineering research group for speaker building in my golden years, too... I'm not sure what Danny's reasoning is!

                                                          Besides, this way, Steve can't whine at me about supply chain issues considering how I'm doing my part!


                                                          Oh, and notice @ 12 AM today that the 3 DA25TX00-8 are shipping from Australia.


                                                          G'day, mate!

                                                          the AudioWorx
                                                          Natalie P
                                                          M8ta
                                                          Modula Neo DCC
                                                          Modula MT XE
                                                          Modula Xtreme
                                                          Isiris
                                                          Wavecor Ardent

                                                          SMJ
                                                          Minerva Monitor
                                                          Calliope
                                                          Ardent D

                                                          In Development...
                                                          Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                          Obi-Wan
                                                          Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                          Modula PWB
                                                          Calliope CC Supreme
                                                          Natalie P Ultra
                                                          Natalie P Supreme
                                                          Janus BP1 Sub


                                                          Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                          Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                          Comment


                                                          • #35
                                                            Originally posted by Efalegalo View Post
                                                            Y’all are just crazy!!!!

                                                            I resemble that remark!

                                                            Originally posted by JonMarsh View Post
                                                            Hey, Danny's not crazy, he's just taking a proactive measure to manage supply chain issues in the modern world!

                                                            I currently have 12 Dayton PRs of various sizes on hand, and 8 of the new SLR26R XM003.

                                                            Of course, I have delusions of running an engineering research group for speaker building in my golden years, too... I'm not sure what Danny's reasoning is!
                                                            Supply chain concerns are definitely a part of it. Taking advantage of sales is another, so I'm disproportionately PR-heavy right now. Of course, for every new project I decide to add, the queue gets backed up further and further. I think I know my next build (all parts in hand for at least two years now) but that will push my own loudspeaker design even further. Here in Las Vegas, that might not be a bad thing. I'm much more productive in the cool months, and it would be beneficial to only work on 'small' projects during the summer. Maybe it would be best to tackle my own design(s) in the late autumn...maybe by then Jon will have a spare day or two to help me out with measurements and crossover design!

                                                            In any case, I'm sure my backlog of projects and inventory of drivers pales in comparison to Jon's!

                                                            Being part of an engineering research group for speaker building sounds like a blast! Alas, I'm a bit short on the technical capability to contribute much more than genuine enthusiasm for the craft.

                                                            Edit: I'm going to get that last tweeter Jon, even if I have to call the CEO of Parts Express!
                                                            - Danny

                                                            Comment


                                                            • JonMarsh
                                                              JonMarsh commented
                                                              Editing a comment
                                                              Funny, but that was almost my exact thought this morning, that calling in to Sales and getting them to enter the order might be the necessary path to success!

                                                            • technodanvan
                                                              technodanvan commented
                                                              Editing a comment
                                                              I think I'm ahead of you on that front!

                                                          • #36
                                                            Hey Danny, call the CEO anyway and tell him to place a frigin order with Peerless so we can buy them for our projects!
                                                            Hold on to your butts - It's about to get Musical!



                                                            WEBSITE: http://www.smjaudio.com/

                                                            Comment


                                                            • #37
                                                              I mean, I imagine this design would be fairly popular among the DIY crowd if the parts were all available. Maybe if one were to demonstrate this and the other designs are freely available to the community they'd make an order? This one even uses Dayton parts, so it's a full PE build - they should probably make some premade cabinets for a kit!

                                                              Barring that, I wonder what it would take to do a group buy. I could see keeping several pairs in storage for myself, plus building a 7.1+ system out of the Nat P Ultra LE would probably be pretty killer.
                                                              - Danny

                                                              Comment


                                                              • #38
                                                                Has anyone tried allicdata before? They show stock.
                                                                DA25TX00-08 DA TWEETER, 25MM. CORUNDUM DOME, 7.5 Ohms Tweeter Speaker 0W Top Round Speakers

                                                                Comment


                                                                • technodanvan
                                                                  technodanvan commented
                                                                  Editing a comment
                                                                  I ordered four but have not had to pay yet...the price is a little concerning. I definitely did not use my normal email on that website!

                                                                • Scareurpasenger
                                                                  Scareurpasenger commented
                                                                  Editing a comment
                                                                  I ordered 4. Price went up upon checking out. This was last night and I am still waiting on confirmation. I did see a couple posts elsewhere that this was legit. The other prices seem more inline, no?

                                                                • Scareurpasenger
                                                                  Scareurpasenger commented
                                                                  Editing a comment
                                                                  Still No response on my order. I followed up with an email today.

                                                              • #39
                                                                Any chance that a variation with the t34b would be considered? I “accidentally bought some” thinking I could take on the built cost/size of the iris but am really liking this concept.

                                                                Comment


                                                                • Evil Twin
                                                                  Evil Twin commented
                                                                  Editing a comment
                                                                  This variant could be named the "Natalie P Ultra Be".

                                                              • #40
                                                                Originally posted by Scareurpasenger View Post
                                                                Any chance that a variation with the t34b would be considered? I “accidentally bought some” thinking I could take on the built cost/size of the iris but am really liking this concept.
                                                                This is quite within the realm of possibility, as another set of T34B are on hand, and getting reliable data for this configuration would be straight forward.
                                                                DFAL
                                                                Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                                                A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

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                                                                • #41
                                                                  My memory failed me. I have the t34a.

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                                                                  • #42
                                                                    The differences are relatively simple to account for- a slightly lower breakup mode peak frequency (29kHz instead of 31kHz) and a top end that is softer by about 2dB above 5-6 kHz. Some may even prefer that...

                                                                    As I have both types on hand, checking the design characteristics will not be challenging in the least...
                                                                    DFAL
                                                                    Dark Force Acoustic Labs

                                                                    A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries

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                                                                    • #43
                                                                      I have officially received the very last Peerless DA25TX from Parts Express. I haven't heard a thing from that other website yet, curious if anyone else has?
                                                                      - Danny

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                                                                      • #44
                                                                        I just received the last three DA25TX from Waggner online in Australia... the total cost per piece from them has been about $100. Well worth it in my opinion...

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                                                                        the AudioWorx
                                                                        Natalie P
                                                                        M8ta
                                                                        Modula Neo DCC
                                                                        Modula MT XE
                                                                        Modula Xtreme
                                                                        Isiris
                                                                        Wavecor Ardent

                                                                        SMJ
                                                                        Minerva Monitor
                                                                        Calliope
                                                                        Ardent D

                                                                        In Development...
                                                                        Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                                        Obi-Wan
                                                                        Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                                        Modula PWB
                                                                        Calliope CC Supreme
                                                                        Natalie P Ultra
                                                                        Natalie P Supreme
                                                                        Janus BP1 Sub


                                                                        Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                                        Just ask Mr. Ohm....

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                                                                        • #45
                                                                          Originally posted by JonMarsh View Post
                                                                          I just received the last three DA25TX from Waggner online in Australia... the total cost per piece from them has been about $100. Well worth it in my opinion...

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                                                                          The $50.00 tweeter is was $100.00 USD, was that from shipping I imagine? Having two build with these this tweeter I admit I still get a smile on my face when I hear them. It will always bring a memory back of when I went to Steve Manning house in 2019 to hear the TTC build when I made the decision to go DIY for new speakers as my friend wanted his back that were graciously on loan to me for 6 years till he could get a house with space to use them. Steve showed me to the chair, put on some music and it was hook, line, sinker from that point on. When I asked Steve what kind of tweeter that was on the SMJ Calliope he said it was titanium... I said come again??? I guess it was love at first listening session... Yes! I can say for my ears I really love the way this tweeter sounds and the designs JonMarsh has created attest to that.
                                                                          Painter in training

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